(11-05-2018 10:49 AM)otown Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 08:52 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Who is UCF going to get this year if they win the AAC? It's going to be LSU in the Peach most likely. Actually, LSU and Big 12 winner in the Sugar on New Years, WSU vs OSU/UM loser in the Rose. You are probably looking at the Big 12 runner up in the Fiesta or the SEC third place finisher in the Peach. That's not a measuring stick game for a co-National Champ. Won't prove anything unless UCF blows em out.

Last year was the perfect storm with Auburn and the two finalists.

This year, only way to do it is if Pitt beats Clemson in the ACC CG and Clemson still goes to the playoffs and wins the whole thing........ but highly doubt they go to the playoffs in that scenario.

I would love to see Bama get beat in the Iron Bowl, then get left out. Can you imagine a UCF-Bama Peach Bowl?

It's my second favorite scenario behind UCF getting intot he playoff and being slotted against Clemson.

Either way the skull-dragging that would take place would be extremely satisfying and would give the same results as when Hawaii was skull-drug by Georgia in the Sugar Bowl all the chirping from Hawaii on the interwebs evaporated. I watched UCF/Temple Thursday night....Clemson could rest it's first string and still beat UCF by multiple scores.

(11-05-2018 11:46 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 10:49 AM)otown Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 08:52 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Who is UCF going to get this year if they win the AAC? It's going to be LSU in the Peach most likely. Actually, LSU and Big 12 winner in the Sugar on New Years, WSU vs OSU/UM loser in the Rose. You are probably looking at the Big 12 runner up in the Fiesta or the SEC third place finisher in the Peach. That's not a measuring stick game for a co-National Champ. Won't prove anything unless UCF blows em out.

Last year was the perfect storm with Auburn and the two finalists.

This year, only way to do it is if Pitt beats Clemson in the ACC CG and Clemson still goes to the playoffs and wins the whole thing........ but highly doubt they go to the playoffs in that scenario.

I would love to see Bama get beat in the Iron Bowl, then get left out. Can you imagine a UCF-Bama Peach Bowl?

It's my second favorite scenario behind UCF getting intot he playoff and being slotted against Clemson.

Either way the skull-dragging that would take place would be extremely satisfying and would give the same results as when Hawaii was skull-drug by Georgia in the Sugar Bowl all the chirping from Hawaii on the interwebs evaporated. I watched UCF/Temple Thursday night....Clemson could rest it's first string and still beat UCF by multiple scores.

Be careful what you wish for. I am sure you would have said the same thing with UCF's defense last year with their shootouts with USF and Memphis. However, you can always fall back on the "we were unmotivated" excuse if you lose .

In all honestly, nobody is gonna beat Bama this year.

The G5 school always has a huge advantage in the access NY6 game. Th P5 school sent to that game is the one the committee does not rank in the top 10 and it's very much a let down to play a G5 school.

The pattern in recent years has been for the P5 school to mail it in, especially the very top players --if they have not already removed themselves from the roster to avoid injury before the NFL draft--. The game doesn't mean crap to them. Any gambler knows to take the G5 school to not just beat the spread, but to win outright.

Note: The coaching staff of the P5 school is highly motivated, but the players just don't care. It's an impossible task to motivate them for a meaningless game.

Then we all pretend it was a great accomplishment for the G5 school to win.

Anyway, UCF is not the best G5 school. The computers decisively say Fresno State is far more impressive on a tougher schedule. It is east coast bias that has UCF first among G5.

(11-05-2018 12:01 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The G5 school always has a huge advantage in the access NY6 game. Th P5 school sent to that game is the one the committee does not rank in the top 10 and it's very much a let down to play a G5 school.

The pattern in recent years has been for the P5 school to mail it in, especially the very top players --if they have not already removed themselves from the roster to avoid injury before the NFL draft--. The game doesn't mean crap to them. Any gambler knows to take the G5 school to not just beat the spread, but to win outright.

Note: The coaching staff of the P5 school is highly motivated, but the players just don't care. It's an impossible task to motivate them for a meaningless game.

Then we all pretend it was a great accomplishment for the G5 school to win.

Anyway, UCF is not the best G5 school. The computers decisively say Fresno State is far more impressive on a tougher schedule. It is east coast bias that has UCF first among G5.

UCF likely doesn't lose to Minnesota.

This is all moot since the NY6 contenders all have decisive games left. This will sort itself out.

(11-04-2018 11:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Honestly, I said last week that UCF would fall in the polls due to the CFP Selection Committee "influence effect". It happened every year. The human polls start to mirror the CFP once the CFP Ranking start to appear. It does not work the other way around.

This.

The current polls mean nothing, right? I mean, if you can have a team in the top 4 beat somebody by 50 points and drop out of the top 4, obviously there's no point in looking at any poll except for the final one.

(11-05-2018 12:01 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The G5 school always has a huge advantage in the access NY6 game. Th P5 school sent to that game is the one the committee does not rank in the top 10 and it's very much a let down to play a G5 school.

The pattern in recent years has been for the P5 school to mail it in, especially the very top players --if they have not already removed themselves from the roster to avoid injury before the NFL draft--. The game doesn't mean crap to them. Any gambler knows to take the G5 school to not just beat the spread, but to win outright.

Note: The coaching staff of the P5 school is highly motivated, but the players just don't care. It's an impossible task to motivate them for a meaningless game.

Then we all pretend it was a great accomplishment for the G5 school to win.

Anyway, UCF is not the best G5 school. The computers decisively say Fresno State is far more impressive on a tougher schedule. It is east coast bias that has UCF first among G5.

Well, Massey Composite, with 91 rankings compiled has UCF #10 and Fresno State #16, so your bolded point is patently false.

(11-05-2018 12:01 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The G5 school always has a huge advantage in the access NY6 game. Th P5 school sent to that game is the one the committee does not rank in the top 10 and it's very much a let down to play a G5 school.

The pattern in recent years has been for the P5 school to mail it in, especially the very top players --if they have not already removed themselves from the roster to avoid injury before the NFL draft--. The game doesn't mean crap to them. Any gambler knows to take the G5 school to not just beat the spread, but to win outright.

Note: The coaching staff of the P5 school is highly motivated, but the players just don't care. It's an impossible task to motivate them for a meaningless game.

Then we all pretend it was a great accomplishment for the G5 school to win.

Anyway, UCF is not the best G5 school. The computers decisively say Fresno State is far more impressive on a tougher schedule. It is east coast bias that has UCF first among G5.

To your point about being ranked outside of the top 10, they're not making the national championship anyway. So how is it a meaningless game? It's still one of the nation's six premier bowl games.

(11-05-2018 12:01 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The G5 school always has a huge advantage in the access NY6 game. Th P5 school sent to that game is the one the committee does not rank in the top 10 and it's very much a let down to play a G5 school.

... and in contrast, the NY6 game is the G5 school's super bowl, they are massively hyped for it.

This is an obvious motivational truth, but G5 fans bristle when it is mentioned.

(11-05-2018 08:52 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 12:01 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The G5 school always has a huge advantage in the access NY6 game. Th P5 school sent to that game is the one the committee does not rank in the top 10 and it's very much a let down to play a G5 school.

... and in contrast, the NY6 game is the G5 school's super bowl, they are massively hyped for it.

This is an obvious motivational truth, but G5 fans bristle when it is mentioned.

As far as motivation was concerned, [Kerryon] Johnson made it clear he and his teammates were ready to go. He dispelled any “outside talk” as far as the players not giving their all, saying everyone involved realizes the work they put in to add an 11th win to the season.

“We were plenty motivated to get this win. We just shot ourselves in the foot,” Johnson said. “We knew how bad we wanted to win this game, and that’s what matters.”

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.ledger-en...87439.html

(11-04-2018 06:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-04-2018 06:28 PM)TampaTom Wrote:  Winning is its own reward. We are not a Top 4 team, but the logic behind these poll selections are inconsistent and hypocritical.

They said we have not beaten anyone with a winning record? Now we beat 3.
They said our strength of schedule is bad? FAU is about to be bowl-eligible, Pittsburgh is #1 in the ACC Coastal (I know, I know, Chaostal), and SCSU is on the warpath and could win some more games.


In most composite ranking systems, our strength of schedule is now out of the 100s. Most of the arguments given for us to be ranked outside of the Top 10 are being addressed one-by-one. And hypocrisy prevails. Iowa State being ranked and Purdue being unranked makes no sense. Too much of this makes no sense whatsoever.

Iowa St. has a better record and didn't lose to Eastern Michigan. Both have a top 10 win, ISU has a win over WVU as Purdue has a win over Ohio St.

Purdue is the better team. They got screwed in the Mizz game. They are a really really good team who has put it all together. I've been betting on them all year (legal in NJ) and watch almost all their games. I'm totally on the Boilermaker Bandwagon.

(11-05-2018 09:19 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(11-04-2018 06:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-04-2018 06:28 PM)TampaTom Wrote:  Winning is its own reward. We are not a Top 4 team, but the logic behind these poll selections are inconsistent and hypocritical.

They said we have not beaten anyone with a winning record? Now we beat 3.
They said our strength of schedule is bad? FAU is about to be bowl-eligible, Pittsburgh is #1 in the ACC Coastal (I know, I know, Chaostal), and SCSU is on the warpath and could win some more games.


In most composite ranking systems, our strength of schedule is now out of the 100s. Most of the arguments given for us to be ranked outside of the Top 10 are being addressed one-by-one. And hypocrisy prevails. Iowa State being ranked and Purdue being unranked makes no sense. Too much of this makes no sense whatsoever.

Iowa St. has a better record and didn't lose to Eastern Michigan. Both have a top 10 win, ISU has a win over WVU as Purdue has a win over Ohio St.

Purdue is the better team. They got screwed in the Mizz game. They are a really really good team who has put it all together. I've been betting on them all year (legal in NJ) and watch almost all their games. I'm totally on the Boilermaker Bandwagon.

Same! I’d actually consider both ISU and Purdue top 25 caliber teams - and better than the UVa/NCSt/BC trio floating around the rankings.

(11-05-2018 07:11 AM)otown Wrote:  See in line

No thanks, I'd rather not. If you can add {b} tags, you can add {quote} tags, but I guess I'll have to do that for you ...

(11-05-2018 07:11 AM)otown Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 05:55 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 05:26 AM)otown Wrote:  I dont know, back in my day, losses actually meant something.

Note it wouldn't be fair to say that the LSU loss didn't mean anything versus a winning UCF ... UCF gained 3 spots on LSU in one poll and 4 spots on LSU in the other. They are now at the position where, if UCF keeps winning, and LSU drops another one, LSU is in their rear view mirror.

Sure, but a LSU team that actually had a loss was light years ahead of UCF just last weak. A team that is still ahead of them after loss #2. Sure, give LSU a mulligan for playing Alabama and getting creamed. If UCF had Alabama on their schedule and got shutout at home, they would drop out of the top 25 all together.

And rightly they should ... their only wins of note have been "...". The closest thing they have to a signature win is beating a Pitt team that also gave UNC their only win of the season.

Their most serious case for being ranked where they are is they are undefeated, so it's conceivable that they have been playing down to their competition and if playing better competition would rise to the occasion. If they faced better competition and did not rise to the occasion, that bubble would pop.

Quote:

Quote: Wins also mean something. UCF was viewed as one step ahead of WVU in the coaches poll, two steps ahead of Wazzu, then they all three won ... UCF beat unranked Temple, WVU beat ranked Texas, Wazzu beat unranked Cal.

It is baked into the system. Please look at the body of work of Texas. Then you tell me if they should have been ranked that high to begin with. Outside of the Oklahoma win, all their games were unimpressive and they now have loss #3. However, the system worked. WVU gets massive props for beating an over ranked team.......because it will go down as a "ranked" win.

It's neither here nor there whether Texas was too highly ranked. They deserved to be in the top 25 somewhere at the time that WVU played them, which is a better win than anything on the UCF resume.

Quote:

Quote: Whether or not UCF should have passed LSU in beating Temple while LSU went down to the best team in the country, WVU should pass UCF unless UCF totally dominated Temple, and whether Wazzu should pass UCF is a beauty contest.

Lets look at the body of work of WVU, what in the heck have they done that is impressive? Barely beat an over ranked Texas team that is primed for another loss or two before the season ends? Tenn, Youngstown State, Kansas State, Kansas, Baylor? Outside of the win against Texas and their Texas Tech win, all their wins were against teams with losing records. However, in a world where losses matter, an undefeated UCF should without question be ahead of them

In a world where the win loss record is all that matters and quality of the wins does not, yes, you are correct, UCF would by definition be ahead.

(11-05-2018 09:02 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 08:52 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 12:01 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The G5 school always has a huge advantage in the access NY6 game. Th P5 school sent to that game is the one the committee does not rank in the top 10 and it's very much a let down to play a G5 school.

... and in contrast, the NY6 game is the G5 school's super bowl, they are massively hyped for it.

This is an obvious motivational truth, but G5 fans bristle when it is mentioned.

As far as motivation was concerned, [Kerryon] Johnson made it clear he and his teammates were ready to go. He dispelled any “outside talk” as far as the players not giving their all, saying everyone involved realizes the work they put in to add an 11th win to the season.

“We were plenty motivated to get this win. We just shot ourselves in the foot,” Johnson said. “We knew how bad we wanted to win this game, and that’s what matters.”

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.ledger-en...87439.html

It's funny how every time it is pointed out the obvious reasons why Auburn had no motivation to play UCF, the Kerryon Johnson quote is trotted out. KJ was almost surely engaging in "coach speak", he was saying what was expected of him. Had he told the truth - "we had already lost the only things that matter to us, the SEC title and going to the playoffs, then to rub salt in the wound got stuck playing the G5 team in the bowl, so couldn't give a damn about this game" - he would have been pilloried in the press, etc.

My issue with UCF isn't being below LSU, it's being below a Kentucky team that lost by multiple scores to Georgia at home and to a 5-4 Texas A&M team. I'm looking at Kentucky's schedule and the best win I could find was over a 3 loss Florida team.

(11-06-2018 09:45 AM)whittx Wrote:  My issue with UCF isn't being below LSU, it's being below a Kentucky team that lost by multiple scores to Georgia at home and to a 5-4 Texas A&M team. I'm looking at Kentucky's schedule and the best win I could find was over a 3 loss Florida team.

If you look at that as favorably as you possibly can for UCF it would put them on roughly equal ground with Kentucky.

(11-06-2018 09:09 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 09:02 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 08:52 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 12:01 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The G5 school always has a huge advantage in the access NY6 game. Th P5 school sent to that game is the one the committee does not rank in the top 10 and it's very much a let down to play a G5 school.

... and in contrast, the NY6 game is the G5 school's super bowl, they are massively hyped for it.

This is an obvious motivational truth, but G5 fans bristle when it is mentioned.

As far as motivation was concerned, [Kerryon] Johnson made it clear he and his teammates were ready to go. He dispelled any “outside talk” as far as the players not giving their all, saying everyone involved realizes the work they put in to add an 11th win to the season.

“We were plenty motivated to get this win. We just shot ourselves in the foot,” Johnson said. “We knew how bad we wanted to win this game, and that’s what matters.”

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.ledger-en...87439.html

It's funny how every time it is pointed out the obvious reasons why Auburn had no motivation to play UCF, the Kerryon Johnson quote is trotted out. KJ was almost surely engaging in "coach speak", he was saying what was expected of him. Had he told the truth - "we had already lost the only things that matter to us, the SEC title and going to the playoffs, then to rub salt in the wound got stuck playing the G5 team in the bowl, so couldn't give a damn about this game" - he would have been pilloried in the press, etc.

If the players actually think that they're so good they shouldn't have to play a G5 team - they shouldn't lose to them. You'd think at some point during the game they would think, hey, we're losing, we better start playing. My question would be, if it had been a mediocre P5 team they had to play, would they have been more motivated, even if that P5 team wasn't as good as the G5 team?

Either way, it doesn't provide a built-in excuse for the so-called unmotivated team to lose. They still lost.

(11-06-2018 04:09 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(11-06-2018 09:09 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 09:02 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 08:52 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 12:01 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The G5 school always has a huge advantage in the access NY6 game. Th P5 school sent to that game is the one the committee does not rank in the top 10 and it's very much a let down to play a G5 school.

... and in contrast, the NY6 game is the G5 school's super bowl, they are massively hyped for it.

This is an obvious motivational truth, but G5 fans bristle when it is mentioned.

As far as motivation was concerned, [Kerryon] Johnson made it clear he and his teammates were ready to go. He dispelled any “outside talk” as far as the players not giving their all, saying everyone involved realizes the work they put in to add an 11th win to the season.

“We were plenty motivated to get this win. We just shot ourselves in the foot,” Johnson said. “We knew how bad we wanted to win this game, and that’s what matters.”

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.ledger-en...87439.html

It's funny how every time it is pointed out the obvious reasons why Auburn had no motivation to play UCF, the Kerryon Johnson quote is trotted out. KJ was almost surely engaging in "coach speak", he was saying what was expected of him. Had he told the truth - "we had already lost the only things that matter to us, the SEC title and going to the playoffs, then to rub salt in the wound got stuck playing the G5 team in the bowl, so couldn't give a damn about this game" - he would have been pilloried in the press, etc.

If the players actually think that they're so good they shouldn't have to play a G5 team - they shouldn't lose to them. You'd think at some point during the game they would think, hey, we're losing, we better start playing. My question would be, if it had been a mediocre P5 team they had to play, would they have been more motivated, even if that P5 team wasn't as good as the G5 team?

Either way, it doesn't provide a built-in excuse for the so-called unmotivated team to lose. They still lost.

No question, they lost. But the lack of motivation is a reason to not draw implications about it beyond the parameters of the game.

(11-07-2018 04:36 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-06-2018 04:09 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(11-06-2018 09:09 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 09:02 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 08:52 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  ... and in contrast, the NY6 game is the G5 school's super bowl, they are massively hyped for it.

This is an obvious motivational truth, but G5 fans bristle when it is mentioned.

As far as motivation was concerned, [Kerryon] Johnson made it clear he and his teammates were ready to go. He dispelled any “outside talk” as far as the players not giving their all, saying everyone involved realizes the work they put in to add an 11th win to the season.

“We were plenty motivated to get this win. We just shot ourselves in the foot,” Johnson said. “We knew how bad we wanted to win this game, and that’s what matters.”

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.ledger-en...87439.html

It's funny how every time it is pointed out the obvious reasons why Auburn had no motivation to play UCF, the Kerryon Johnson quote is trotted out. KJ was almost surely engaging in "coach speak", he was saying what was expected of him. Had he told the truth - "we had already lost the only things that matter to us, the SEC title and going to the playoffs, then to rub salt in the wound got stuck playing the G5 team in the bowl, so couldn't give a damn about this game" - he would have been pilloried in the press, etc.

If the players actually think that they're so good they shouldn't have to play a G5 team - they shouldn't lose to them. You'd think at some point during the game they would think, hey, we're losing, we better start playing. My question would be, if it had been a mediocre P5 team they had to play, would they have been more motivated, even if that P5 team wasn't as good as the G5 team?

Either way, it doesn't provide a built-in excuse for the so-called unmotivated team to lose. They still lost.

No question, they lost. But the lack of motivation is a reason to not draw implications about it beyond the parameters of the game.

How did the CFP help to diminish the bowls? The CFP is an extension of the season for the purpose of determining a champion. The bowls were once such an entity. Now they are merely year end exhibitions. Most bowls were that anyway, but now all of them are. There is no longer an interest to see who wins the bowls to impress the polls. There are 4 schools selected each year to determine the champion and none of them are really bowl games even if they are staged as such.

So the P5 schools who had been in strong contention for one of those 4 CFP slots all see their bowl game as parting gifts from Don Pardo for the losers of the regular season. Now call it what you would like to call it, but it is a huge let down for those schools and players so most of their coaches turn the bowl game experience into extra practice sessions and then treat the trip like a vacation. Send an SEC school to Atlanta or Charlotte instead of Miami or New Orleans and it feels like your parting gifts include dinner for four at Krystal or Chic-fil-a instead of Ruth's Chris.

Give the G5 top school who is hungry for recognition one of those schools to play and the recipe for an upset is virtually perfect. For one school it means the world and for the other if feels like you are Mrs. Squirming Hatch Blower from the Right Stuff. "The Air Force owes us Gus! These are the goodies?"

(11-07-2018 04:36 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-06-2018 04:09 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(11-06-2018 09:09 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 09:02 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 08:52 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  ... and in contrast, the NY6 game is the G5 school's super bowl, they are massively hyped for it.

This is an obvious motivational truth, but G5 fans bristle when it is mentioned.

As far as motivation was concerned, [Kerryon] Johnson made it clear he and his teammates were ready to go. He dispelled any “outside talk” as far as the players not giving their all, saying everyone involved realizes the work they put in to add an 11th win to the season.

“We were plenty motivated to get this win. We just shot ourselves in the foot,” Johnson said. “We knew how bad we wanted to win this game, and that’s what matters.”

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.ledger-en...87439.html

It's funny how every time it is pointed out the obvious reasons why Auburn had no motivation to play UCF, the Kerryon Johnson quote is trotted out. KJ was almost surely engaging in "coach speak", he was saying what was expected of him. Had he told the truth - "we had already lost the only things that matter to us, the SEC title and going to the playoffs, then to rub salt in the wound got stuck playing the G5 team in the bowl, so couldn't give a damn about this game" - he would have been pilloried in the press, etc.

If the players actually think that they're so good they shouldn't have to play a G5 team - they shouldn't lose to them. You'd think at some point during the game they would think, hey, we're losing, we better start playing. My question would be, if it had been a mediocre P5 team they had to play, would they have been more motivated, even if that P5 team wasn't as good as the G5 team?

Either way, it doesn't provide a built-in excuse for the so-called unmotivated team to lose. They still lost.

No question, they lost. But the lack of motivation is a reason to not draw implications about it beyond the parameters of the game.

I think you can draw the exact same implications that you can from 2 equal teams where one wins because they were more motivated. Which means, basically it's just like any other game.