(08-22-2018 06:52 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:54 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:48 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Those of you blaming this on illegal immigration are completely missing the forest for the trees.
A friend who lives close to where Mollie Tibbetts lived posted this today - it is the most appropriate response I've seen to this tragedy.

This afternoon, when walking to my car, a man appeared behind me in the parking garage. He walked two or three steps behind me - well in my space. I cursed myself for not holding my keys, the way we women have been trained to do, between my knuckles to strike if necessary. For a few moments, I was terrified.

This man didn’t harm me, and was guilty of no more than being oblivious to personal space. Still, women have to think every day about protecting themselves from men.

I don’t remember where I read or heard this story (and forgive me if I mess up the details) A professor asked the young men to tell the class what they do to protect themselves from rape. The men laughed nervously. The question seemed ludicrous. The professor asked the young women the same question and they easily rattled off dozens of answers: park near streetlights, check under car before getting in, hold keys between knuckles... This is just part of being a woman.

When I got home and opened the news, my heart broke to see that Mollie Tibbetts’s body had been found. This story is local to me. A young Iowa woman went for a jog and wound up dead. Women should be able to walk home after dark, park in the first spot they see, have drinks in a bar, or go for a jog without being harmed by men.

The news, our senators, our governor, and the vice president (among others, I’m sure) are making this an immigration issue.

This isn’t a immigration issue. This is a men are hurting and raping and killing women issue. How do we make them stop?

If immigration laws had been followed with this murderer, would Mollie Tibbetts still be alive today? Women have rapists and murderers that are a threat to them in this country that are here legally. To allow that number of potential threats to our daughters and wives to be increased by allowing people that should not even be in this country is wrong, bad wrong. It amazes me people can't understand that point. Once again, if this illegal immigrant that committed this horrendous murder, who shouldn't have even been in this country, not been here, would that beautiful, sweet woman, Mollie Tibbetts, still be alive today?

1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

We don't live in a perfect world and not even a wall will stop illegal immigration.

But maybe if the farm that employed him had used E-verify he would not have been able to work. You know like with gun control, why don't we enforce the laws we already have.

I can't argue with that. Enforce the damn laws and fix the bad ones. Whoever employed this illegal should go to jail. I don't give a damn about his politics

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTru...04/video/1


#walkaway

(08-22-2018 08:44 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 06:52 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:54 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  If immigration laws had been followed with this murderer, would Mollie Tibbetts still be alive today? Women have rapists and murderers that are a threat to them in this country that are here legally. To allow that number of potential threats to our daughters and wives to be increased by allowing people that should not even be in this country is wrong, bad wrong. It amazes me people can't understand that point. Once again, if this illegal immigrant that committed this horrendous murder, who shouldn't have even been in this country, not been here, would that beautiful, sweet woman, Mollie Tibbetts, still be alive today?

1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

We don't live in a perfect world and not even a wall will stop illegal immigration.

But maybe if the farm that employed him had used E-verify he would not have been able to work. You know like with gun control, why don't we enforce the laws we already have.

I can't argue with that. Enforce the damn laws and fix the bad ones. Whoever employed this illegal should go to jail. I don't give a damn about his politics

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTru...04/video/1


#walkaway

Trump needs one more plank on his immigration platform, fine the crap out of anyone who hires them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

(08-22-2018 06:52 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:54 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:48 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Those of you blaming this on illegal immigration are completely missing the forest for the trees.
A friend who lives close to where Mollie Tibbetts lived posted this today - it is the most appropriate response I've seen to this tragedy.

This afternoon, when walking to my car, a man appeared behind me in the parking garage. He walked two or three steps behind me - well in my space. I cursed myself for not holding my keys, the way we women have been trained to do, between my knuckles to strike if necessary. For a few moments, I was terrified.

This man didn’t harm me, and was guilty of no more than being oblivious to personal space. Still, women have to think every day about protecting themselves from men.

I don’t remember where I read or heard this story (and forgive me if I mess up the details) A professor asked the young men to tell the class what they do to protect themselves from rape. The men laughed nervously. The question seemed ludicrous. The professor asked the young women the same question and they easily rattled off dozens of answers: park near streetlights, check under car before getting in, hold keys between knuckles... This is just part of being a woman.

When I got home and opened the news, my heart broke to see that Mollie Tibbetts’s body had been found. This story is local to me. A young Iowa woman went for a jog and wound up dead. Women should be able to walk home after dark, park in the first spot they see, have drinks in a bar, or go for a jog without being harmed by men.

The news, our senators, our governor, and the vice president (among others, I’m sure) are making this an immigration issue.

This isn’t a immigration issue. This is a men are hurting and raping and killing women issue. How do we make them stop?

If immigration laws had been followed with this murderer, would Mollie Tibbetts still be alive today? Women have rapists and murderers that are a threat to them in this country that are here legally. To allow that number of potential threats to our daughters and wives to be increased by allowing people that should not even be in this country is wrong, bad wrong. It amazes me people can't understand that point. Once again, if this illegal immigrant that committed this horrendous murder, who shouldn't have even been in this country, not been here, would that beautiful, sweet woman, Mollie Tibbetts, still be alive today?

1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

We don't live in a perfect world and not even a wall will stop illegal immigration.

But maybe if the farm that employed him had used E-verify he would not have been able to work. You know like with gun control, why don't we enforce the laws we already have.

E-verify is optional, not mandatory.

(08-22-2018 06:52 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:54 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:48 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Those of you blaming this on illegal immigration are completely missing the forest for the trees.
A friend who lives close to where Mollie Tibbetts lived posted this today - it is the most appropriate response I've seen to this tragedy.

This afternoon, when walking to my car, a man appeared behind me in the parking garage. He walked two or three steps behind me - well in my space. I cursed myself for not holding my keys, the way we women have been trained to do, between my knuckles to strike if necessary. For a few moments, I was terrified.

This man didn’t harm me, and was guilty of no more than being oblivious to personal space. Still, women have to think every day about protecting themselves from men.

I don’t remember where I read or heard this story (and forgive me if I mess up the details) A professor asked the young men to tell the class what they do to protect themselves from rape. The men laughed nervously. The question seemed ludicrous. The professor asked the young women the same question and they easily rattled off dozens of answers: park near streetlights, check under car before getting in, hold keys between knuckles... This is just part of being a woman.

When I got home and opened the news, my heart broke to see that Mollie Tibbetts’s body had been found. This story is local to me. A young Iowa woman went for a jog and wound up dead. Women should be able to walk home after dark, park in the first spot they see, have drinks in a bar, or go for a jog without being harmed by men.

The news, our senators, our governor, and the vice president (among others, I’m sure) are making this an immigration issue.

This isn’t a immigration issue. This is a men are hurting and raping and killing women issue. How do we make them stop?

If immigration laws had been followed with this murderer, would Mollie Tibbetts still be alive today? Women have rapists and murderers that are a threat to them in this country that are here legally. To allow that number of potential threats to our daughters and wives to be increased by allowing people that should not even be in this country is wrong, bad wrong. It amazes me people can't understand that point. Once again, if this illegal immigrant that committed this horrendous murder, who shouldn't have even been in this country, not been here, would that beautiful, sweet woman, Mollie Tibbetts, still be alive today?

1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

We don't live in a perfect world and not even a wall will stop illegal immigration.

But maybe if the farm that employed him had used E-verify he would not have been able to work. You know like with gun control, why don't we enforce the laws we already have.

It may not totally stop illegal immigration but it would definitely slow it way down. A wall with overhead drones 24/7 would go a long way to slowing it to a trickle or forcing them to take to the sea to try to wade ashore along a beach. Anything on the surface of the water can be tracked.

We have have the technology. What we don't have is the political will because one side is benefiting politically by adding to the illegal voting roles and those on the public dole and that's the whole story here. The Dems were willing to sacrifice a young woman to keep their power base growing.

Yep, a republican has never supported immigration.
This coming from the crowd who doesn't believe Trump has assaulted women, even though he's a proven perv. Nope. He wouldn't send a goon to threaten a porn star not to tell a story. Such a fine upstanding dummy.

(08-22-2018 11:26 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  Yep, a republican has never supported immigration.
This coming from the crowd who doesn't believe Trump has assaulted women, even though he's a proven perv. Nope. He wouldn't send a goon to threaten a porn star not to tell a story. Such a fine upstanding dummy.

What does your post have to do with the OP?

Now as to your assertion, I've always supported legal immigration. I have not always been a Republican and am still not willing to wear that moniker. Libertarian yes. When I was younger I was a Republican without question, but then too many in the party became corporate dupes who told the rank and file what they wanted to hear and then did the bidding of those who funded their campaigns. But, that malady has long existed on the other side of the aisle as well. Did Obama close Gitmo? Did he get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan? No. But when he was at Harvard he did accept a scholarship from the CIA awarded to him by one H.W. Bush.

Soros was disappointed in him. Why? After all after shutting down drilling in the Gulf, Soros benefited by getting some unused rigs to drill for his acquisitions in the name of Petrobras. But then as much as the right wanted to blame everything on Obama, he did keep business as usual for Goldman Sachs and the arms industry, and those who contribute to both sides of the aisles to keep their perks. In that regard he was just like H.W. Bush, W. Bush, and Bill Clinton.

The issues du jour are for the masses. Abortion/Pro Life, ProGay/AntiGay, ProGun/AntiGun, ProEnvironment/ProCoal&Gas/&Fracking, etc. As long as the Left and Right squabble and business continues unabated the major corporate sponsors donate to campaigns on both sides, recollect the money through the media Corps their conglomerate own, and steal the elections.

Meanwhile the citizens who adamantly believe in causes rail against one another and accomplish nothing.

Legal immigrants come to work, pass background checks, and are generally good families looking for a better life. Illegals may have some of those too, but they may have more with records that wouldn't pass legal immigration, or they could be ferrying narcotics, or in the case of arms caches found in the Mojave they may have had links to terrorist cells. It's stupid and illegal to permit illegal immigration.

Had this country ever closed its doors to legal immigrants I'd say you had a point. But we haven't! Therefore your accusation is pure hyperbolic B.S.

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:54 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:48 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Those of you blaming this on illegal immigration are completely missing the forest for the trees.
A friend who lives close to where Mollie Tibbetts lived posted this today - it is the most appropriate response I've seen to this tragedy.

This afternoon, when walking to my car, a man appeared behind me in the parking garage. He walked two or three steps behind me - well in my space. I cursed myself for not holding my keys, the way we women have been trained to do, between my knuckles to strike if necessary. For a few moments, I was terrified.

This man didn’t harm me, and was guilty of no more than being oblivious to personal space. Still, women have to think every day about protecting themselves from men.

I don’t remember where I read or heard this story (and forgive me if I mess up the details) A professor asked the young men to tell the class what they do to protect themselves from rape. The men laughed nervously. The question seemed ludicrous. The professor asked the young women the same question and they easily rattled off dozens of answers: park near streetlights, check under car before getting in, hold keys between knuckles... This is just part of being a woman.

When I got home and opened the news, my heart broke to see that Mollie Tibbetts’s body had been found. This story is local to me. A young Iowa woman went for a jog and wound up dead. Women should be able to walk home after dark, park in the first spot they see, have drinks in a bar, or go for a jog without being harmed by men.

The news, our senators, our governor, and the vice president (among others, I’m sure) are making this an immigration issue.

This isn’t a immigration issue. This is a men are hurting and raping and killing women issue. How do we make them stop?

If immigration laws had been followed with this murderer, would Mollie Tibbetts still be alive today? Women have rapists and murderers that are a threat to them in this country that are here legally. To allow that number of potential threats to our daughters and wives to be increased by allowing people that should not even be in this country is wrong, bad wrong. It amazes me people can't understand that point. Once again, if this illegal immigrant that committed this horrendous murder, who shouldn't have even been in this country, not been here, would that beautiful, sweet woman, Mollie Tibbetts, still be alive today?

1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

Wrong.

A lot of things could have kept this particular woman from being killed. The fact that this guy was illegal has zero to do with those things.

A lot of things could also have kept multitudes of other women from being killed. There is one thing that those men have in common with this one, and it is not their status as a citizen or not.

This is not an immigration issue; this is an issue of men who feel it’s within their power to do horrible things to innocent women, no matter who they are or where they are from.

Period.

(08-22-2018 09:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 06:52 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:54 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  If immigration laws had been followed with this murderer, would Mollie Tibbetts still be alive today? Women have rapists and murderers that are a threat to them in this country that are here legally. To allow that number of potential threats to our daughters and wives to be increased by allowing people that should not even be in this country is wrong, bad wrong. It amazes me people can't understand that point. Once again, if this illegal immigrant that committed this horrendous murder, who shouldn't have even been in this country, not been here, would that beautiful, sweet woman, Mollie Tibbetts, still be alive today?

1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

We don't live in a perfect world and not even a wall will stop illegal immigration.

But maybe if the farm that employed him had used E-verify he would not have been able to work. You know like with gun control, why don't we enforce the laws we already have.

E-verify is optional, not mandatory.

Maybe it should be mandatory, but we live in a country currently led by people who aren’t into adding extra laws.

(08-22-2018 05:15 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:13 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  I’ll ask again since none of you liberals will answer.

WHY DO YOU WANT OPEN BORDERS?

I shout because you seem to always defend the illegals but never explain exactly why.

Has anyone said "open borders"? Have people said a wall is not the answer yes but that does not mean they believe in open borders.

Exactly.

(08-22-2018 11:58 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:54 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:48 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Those of you blaming this on illegal immigration are completely missing the forest for the trees.
A friend who lives close to where Mollie Tibbetts lived posted this today - it is the most appropriate response I've seen to this tragedy.

This afternoon, when walking to my car, a man appeared behind me in the parking garage. He walked two or three steps behind me - well in my space. I cursed myself for not holding my keys, the way we women have been trained to do, between my knuckles to strike if necessary. For a few moments, I was terrified.

This man didn’t harm me, and was guilty of no more than being oblivious to personal space. Still, women have to think every day about protecting themselves from men.

I don’t remember where I read or heard this story (and forgive me if I mess up the details) A professor asked the young men to tell the class what they do to protect themselves from rape. The men laughed nervously. The question seemed ludicrous. The professor asked the young women the same question and they easily rattled off dozens of answers: park near streetlights, check under car before getting in, hold keys between knuckles... This is just part of being a woman.

When I got home and opened the news, my heart broke to see that Mollie Tibbetts’s body had been found. This story is local to me. A young Iowa woman went for a jog and wound up dead. Women should be able to walk home after dark, park in the first spot they see, have drinks in a bar, or go for a jog without being harmed by men.

The news, our senators, our governor, and the vice president (among others, I’m sure) are making this an immigration issue.

This isn’t a immigration issue. This is a men are hurting and raping and killing women issue. How do we make them stop?

If immigration laws had been followed with this murderer, would Mollie Tibbetts still be alive today? Women have rapists and murderers that are a threat to them in this country that are here legally. To allow that number of potential threats to our daughters and wives to be increased by allowing people that should not even be in this country is wrong, bad wrong. It amazes me people can't understand that point. Once again, if this illegal immigrant that committed this horrendous murder, who shouldn't have even been in this country, not been here, would that beautiful, sweet woman, Mollie Tibbetts, still be alive today?

1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

Wrong.

A lot of things could have kept this particular woman from being killed. The fact that this guy was illegal has zero to do with those things.

A lot of things could also have kept multitudes of other women from being killed. There is one thing that those men have in common with this one, and it is not their status as a citizen or not.

Period.

Prove the error of his statements! It is true the victim should have probably been more cautious, but then small towns in Iowa aren't like Beale Street in Memphis at 2AM. So you blame the victim rather than admit the fault solely lies with a perpetrator. To take your logic to its natural conclusion she should have packed heat while jogging and used deadly force to defend herself. But, I'm sure if she had the issue would have been the wrongful death of a misunderstood illegal alien.

You say a lot of things could have prevented the murder. I ask what? The perpetrator saw her running prior to the day he killed her, staked out the route, and carried out his crime. If his background had been legitimately checked out at the time of a legal immigration and if he had priors he would not have been able to enter. Therefore it's logical to conclude that he might not have been there to get turned on by a young isolated woman jogging down a rural road where she had lived safely her entire life until our government screwed up one of its primary responsibilities to its citizens by doing its due diligence and not letting this guy in.

Now could another guy, a legal citizen, have perpetrated this horror? Yes But then that's now what happened is it. And the odds are it wouldn't have happened in a small rural Iowa town. It's possible, but not statistically prevalent enough for your assumption about the woman taking better precautions to have applied, like it would have in a major metropolitan area.

Part of the horror of this situation is that it happened in the heartland. Why? Because once illegals are in the nation they are free to travel wherever they like, frequently using illegal vehicles, with improper registration, no insurance, and free to go to the heartland and prey upon the unsuspecting who have been taught not to prejudge those around them based upon their ethnicity as this woman had been instructed and in good faith had followed.

I submit she was a lamb led to the slaughter by the very beliefs that had been drilled into her. Had she been a city girl familiar with predators of all hues and ethnicity then her general mistrust of humanity might have saved her life.

But spare me the dishonest position that her death had no connection to illegal immigration. She might have been spared had the current laws only been enforced at the border. The failing was that of the government to enforce existing immigration laws, which the building of a barrier of substantial difficulty to circumvent, might have assisted.

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.
He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....
Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.
To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Yes, illegals have a strong incentive to obey the law, because deportation is always in order if they are arrested.

Should we or should we not make every effort to identify those more likely to commit such atrocities and keep them out? The fact that someone is here illegally does not mean the he or she is apt to commit a violent and heinous crime. But the fact that someone has committed a violent crime in the past--either here or in the home country--probably does heighten that risk significantly. More legal immigration, less illegal immigration, and more careful vetting of those who would be illegal immigrants.

(08-22-2018 05:11 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

Maybe if the farm where the suspect worked actually used the E-Verify system this tragedy might have been avoided. A farm owned by a prominent GOP family.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/22/mol...ystem.html

They used e-verify. Suspect used a false name and social security number.

http://www.foxnews.com/us.html

(08-23-2018 12:23 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 11:58 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:54 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  If immigration laws had been followed with this murderer, would Mollie Tibbetts still be alive today? Women have rapists and murderers that are a threat to them in this country that are here legally. To allow that number of potential threats to our daughters and wives to be increased by allowing people that should not even be in this country is wrong, bad wrong. It amazes me people can't understand that point. Once again, if this illegal immigrant that committed this horrendous murder, who shouldn't have even been in this country, not been here, would that beautiful, sweet woman, Mollie Tibbetts, still be alive today?

1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

Wrong.

A lot of things could have kept this particular woman from being killed. The fact that this guy was illegal has zero to do with those things.

A lot of things could also have kept multitudes of other women from being killed. There is one thing that those men have in common with this one, and it is not their status as a citizen or not.

Period.

Prove the error of his statements! It is true the victim should have probably been more cautious, but then small towns in Iowa aren't like Beale Street in Memphis at 2AM. So you blame the victim rather than admit the fault solely lies with a perpetrator. To take your logic to its natural conclusion she should have packed heat while jogging and used deadly force to defend herself. But, I'm sure if she had the issue would have been the wrongful death of a misunderstood illegal alien.

You say a lot of things could have prevented the murder. I ask what? The perpetrator saw her running prior to the day he killed her, staked out the route, and carried out his crime. If his background had been legitimately checked out at the time of a legal immigration and if he had priors he would not have been able to enter. Therefore it's logical to conclude that he might not have been there to get turned on by a young isolated woman jogging down a rural road where she had lived safely her entire life until our government screwed up one of its primary responsibilities to its citizens by doing its due diligence and not letting this guy in.

Now could another guy, a legal citizen, have perpetrated this horror? Yes But then that's now what happened is it. And the odds are it wouldn't have happened in a small rural Iowa town. It's possible, but not statistically prevalent enough for your assumption about the woman taking better precautions to have applied, like it would have in a major metropolitan area.

Part of the horror of this situation is that it happened in the heartland. Why? Because once illegals are in the nation they are free to travel wherever they like, frequently using illegal vehicles, with improper registration, no insurance, and free to go to the heartland and prey upon the unsuspecting who have been taught not to prejudge those around them based upon their ethnicity as this woman had been instructed and in good faith had followed.

I submit she was a lamb led to the slaughter by the very beliefs that had been drilled into her. Had she been a city girl familiar with predators of all hues and ethnicity then her general mistrust of humanity might have saved her life.

But spare me the dishonest position that her death had no connection to illegal immigration. She might have been spared had the current laws only been enforced at the border. The failing was that of the government to enforce existing immigration laws, which the building of a barrier of substantial difficulty to circumvent, might have assisted.

The fact that you think I'm victim blaming shows how out of touch you are with this entire discussion. Lots of things could have prevented this crime, and they don't necessarily have anything to do with her, but regardless, his immigration status has zero to do with why he committed this crime.

BTW, the "horror" is the same, no matter if it happened in Iowa or Detroit. The only difference is the false sense of security some people have when they think "small town."
I wonder if some of you would have the same outrage had this woman been an illegal immigrant & the killer a citizen.

(08-23-2018 04:54 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  But the fact that someone has committed a violent crime in the past--either here or in the home country--probably does heighten that risk significantly. More legal immigration, less illegal immigration, and more careful vetting of those who would be illegal immigrants.

Let's start with the company owned by the repub senator who didn't think to match up the info he gave them for the e-verify system with the (different) name he gave for his paycheck.

Do we know that this guy committed violent crimes in the past? I haven't seen anything alluding to that, although I haven't done much searching on it, admittedly.

(08-23-2018 08:41 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 12:23 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 11:58 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

Wrong.

A lot of things could have kept this particular woman from being killed. The fact that this guy was illegal has zero to do with those things.

A lot of things could also have kept multitudes of other women from being killed. There is one thing that those men have in common with this one, and it is not their status as a citizen or not.

Period.

Prove the error of his statements! It is true the victim should have probably been more cautious, but then small towns in Iowa aren't like Beale Street in Memphis at 2AM. So you blame the victim rather than admit the fault solely lies with a perpetrator. To take your logic to its natural conclusion she should have packed heat while jogging and used deadly force to defend herself. But, I'm sure if she had the issue would have been the wrongful death of a misunderstood illegal alien.

You say a lot of things could have prevented the murder. I ask what? The perpetrator saw her running prior to the day he killed her, staked out the route, and carried out his crime. If his background had been legitimately checked out at the time of a legal immigration and if he had priors he would not have been able to enter. Therefore it's logical to conclude that he might not have been there to get turned on by a young isolated woman jogging down a rural road where she had lived safely her entire life until our government screwed up one of its primary responsibilities to its citizens by doing its due diligence and not letting this guy in.

Now could another guy, a legal citizen, have perpetrated this horror? Yes But then that's now what happened is it. And the odds are it wouldn't have happened in a small rural Iowa town. It's possible, but not statistically prevalent enough for your assumption about the woman taking better precautions to have applied, like it would have in a major metropolitan area.

Part of the horror of this situation is that it happened in the heartland. Why? Because once illegals are in the nation they are free to travel wherever they like, frequently using illegal vehicles, with improper registration, no insurance, and free to go to the heartland and prey upon the unsuspecting who have been taught not to prejudge those around them based upon their ethnicity as this woman had been instructed and in good faith had followed.

I submit she was a lamb led to the slaughter by the very beliefs that had been drilled into her. Had she been a city girl familiar with predators of all hues and ethnicity then her general mistrust of humanity might have saved her life.

But spare me the dishonest position that her death had no connection to illegal immigration. She might have been spared had the current laws only been enforced at the border. The failing was that of the government to enforce existing immigration laws, which the building of a barrier of substantial difficulty to circumvent, might have assisted.

The fact that you think I'm victim blaming shows how out of touch you are with this entire discussion. Lots of things could have prevented this crime, and they don't necessarily have anything to do with her, but regardless, his immigration status has zero to do with why he committed this crime.

BTW, the "horror" is the same, no matter if it happened in Iowa or Detroit. The only difference is the false sense of security some people have when they think "small town."
I wonder if some of you would have the same outrage had this woman been an illegal immigrant & the killer a citizen.

Wrong.

Illegal alien brutally murders American citizen. If alien is not here citizen not murdered.

Period.

So when do we arrest the owner of the farm/company for accessory to murder?

(08-23-2018 08:54 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 08:41 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 12:23 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 11:58 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

Wrong.

A lot of things could have kept this particular woman from being killed. The fact that this guy was illegal has zero to do with those things.

A lot of things could also have kept multitudes of other women from being killed. There is one thing that those men have in common with this one, and it is not their status as a citizen or not.

Period.

Prove the error of his statements! It is true the victim should have probably been more cautious, but then small towns in Iowa aren't like Beale Street in Memphis at 2AM. So you blame the victim rather than admit the fault solely lies with a perpetrator. To take your logic to its natural conclusion she should have packed heat while jogging and used deadly force to defend herself. But, I'm sure if she had the issue would have been the wrongful death of a misunderstood illegal alien.

You say a lot of things could have prevented the murder. I ask what? The perpetrator saw her running prior to the day he killed her, staked out the route, and carried out his crime. If his background had been legitimately checked out at the time of a legal immigration and if he had priors he would not have been able to enter. Therefore it's logical to conclude that he might not have been there to get turned on by a young isolated woman jogging down a rural road where she had lived safely her entire life until our government screwed up one of its primary responsibilities to its citizens by doing its due diligence and not letting this guy in.

Now could another guy, a legal citizen, have perpetrated this horror? Yes But then that's now what happened is it. And the odds are it wouldn't have happened in a small rural Iowa town. It's possible, but not statistically prevalent enough for your assumption about the woman taking better precautions to have applied, like it would have in a major metropolitan area.

Part of the horror of this situation is that it happened in the heartland. Why? Because once illegals are in the nation they are free to travel wherever they like, frequently using illegal vehicles, with improper registration, no insurance, and free to go to the heartland and prey upon the unsuspecting who have been taught not to prejudge those around them based upon their ethnicity as this woman had been instructed and in good faith had followed.

I submit she was a lamb led to the slaughter by the very beliefs that had been drilled into her. Had she been a city girl familiar with predators of all hues and ethnicity then her general mistrust of humanity might have saved her life.

But spare me the dishonest position that her death had no connection to illegal immigration. She might have been spared had the current laws only been enforced at the border. The failing was that of the government to enforce existing immigration laws, which the building of a barrier of substantial difficulty to circumvent, might have assisted.

The fact that you think I'm victim blaming shows how out of touch you are with this entire discussion. Lots of things could have prevented this crime, and they don't necessarily have anything to do with her, but regardless, his immigration status has zero to do with why he committed this crime.

BTW, the "horror" is the same, no matter if it happened in Iowa or Detroit. The only difference is the false sense of security some people have when they think "small town."
I wonder if some of you would have the same outrage had this woman been an illegal immigrant & the killer a citizen.

Wrong.

Illegal alien brutally murders American citizen. If alien is not here citizen not murdered.

Period.

Okay, and if the citizen wasn't born, she wouldn't have been murdered. See how ridiculous that sounds?

If illegal alien is at work at the time citizen runs, citizen not murdered.
If illegal alien gets stopped by red light & citizen turns off road, citizen not murdered.
If illegal alien has to pee before getting in car, citizen not found & not murdered.

I could go on to a ludicrous end, but a multitude of things could have kept this from happening. The fact that he's illegal has zip to do with it.

(08-23-2018 08:41 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 12:23 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 11:58 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

Wrong.

A lot of things could have kept this particular woman from being killed. The fact that this guy was illegal has zero to do with those things.

A lot of things could also have kept multitudes of other women from being killed. There is one thing that those men have in common with this one, and it is not their status as a citizen or not.

Period.

Prove the error of his statements! It is true the victim should have probably been more cautious, but then small towns in Iowa aren't like Beale Street in Memphis at 2AM. So you blame the victim rather than admit the fault solely lies with a perpetrator. To take your logic to its natural conclusion she should have packed heat while jogging and used deadly force to defend herself. But, I'm sure if she had the issue would have been the wrongful death of a misunderstood illegal alien.

You say a lot of things could have prevented the murder. I ask what? The perpetrator saw her running prior to the day he killed her, staked out the route, and carried out his crime. If his background had been legitimately checked out at the time of a legal immigration and if he had priors he would not have been able to enter. Therefore it's logical to conclude that he might not have been there to get turned on by a young isolated woman jogging down a rural road where she had lived safely her entire life until our government screwed up one of its primary responsibilities to its citizens by doing its due diligence and not letting this guy in.

Now could another guy, a legal citizen, have perpetrated this horror? Yes But then that's now what happened is it. And the odds are it wouldn't have happened in a small rural Iowa town. It's possible, but not statistically prevalent enough for your assumption about the woman taking better precautions to have applied, like it would have in a major metropolitan area.

Part of the horror of this situation is that it happened in the heartland. Why? Because once illegals are in the nation they are free to travel wherever they like, frequently using illegal vehicles, with improper registration, no insurance, and free to go to the heartland and prey upon the unsuspecting who have been taught not to prejudge those around them based upon their ethnicity as this woman had been instructed and in good faith had followed.

I submit she was a lamb led to the slaughter by the very beliefs that had been drilled into her. Had she been a city girl familiar with predators of all hues and ethnicity then her general mistrust of humanity might have saved her life.

But spare me the dishonest position that her death had no connection to illegal immigration. She might have been spared had the current laws only been enforced at the border. The failing was that of the government to enforce existing immigration laws, which the building of a barrier of substantial difficulty to circumvent, might have assisted.

The fact that you think I'm victim blaming shows how out of touch you are with this entire discussion. Lots of things could have prevented this crime, and they don't necessarily have anything to do with her, but regardless, his immigration status has zero to do with why he committed this crime.

BTW, the "horror" is the same, no matter if it happened in Iowa or Detroit. The only difference is the false sense of security some people have when they think "small town."
I wonder if some of you would have the same outrage had this woman been an illegal immigrant & the killer a citizen.

The only thing out of touch in this discussion are those of you who jump the shark on the fact that if this illegal had not gotten in the girl would be alive. But that doesn't fit your agenda. So you try to finagle the conversation into the hypothetical anyone could have done it. And saying the girl had a false sense of security and should have taken precautions is blaming the victim.

The fallacy oddly is in moving from a specific fact, "this illegal alien killed that girl", to an irrelevant generalized assumption that "anyone could have killed the girl". If we didn't know who killed her then yes, anyone could have killed the girl. But we know who killed her because he confessed. Therefore nobody else killed the girl, the illegal alien who confessed did. And it is indisputable that had he been detained and sent back, this particular girl in all likelihood would still be alive.

Now as to the usual M.O. that some have around here, blame the one with the contrary viewpoint by labeling them as uncaring or insensitive, I absolutely would be still be horrified had a citizen killed an illegal alien who was a woman. That happens everyday because so many of them are put into sex trafficking where their killers are citizens and illegal and legal aliens alike.

So once again, if we enforce our immigration laws, and actually prevent human trafficking across the borders where the women who are smuggled in for the sex trade are detained and returned home, and those who meet the requirements for a green card are permitted entrance, yet again would innocent lives be spared.

But female illegal aliens are fearful to go to the police for protection because of their status. So letting them in sets them up for further victimization.

It's you who hasn't kept up to speed with the discussion because you ignore the responsible parts of it. And that responsibility is that by enforcement of border control we save lives on both sides of the border.

(08-23-2018 09:04 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 08:41 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 12:23 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 11:58 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

Wrong.

A lot of things could have kept this particular woman from being killed. The fact that this guy was illegal has zero to do with those things.

A lot of things could also have kept multitudes of other women from being killed. There is one thing that those men have in common with this one, and it is not their status as a citizen or not.

Period.

Prove the error of his statements! It is true the victim should have probably been more cautious, but then small towns in Iowa aren't like Beale Street in Memphis at 2AM. So you blame the victim rather than admit the fault solely lies with a perpetrator. To take your logic to its natural conclusion she should have packed heat while jogging and used deadly force to defend herself. But, I'm sure if she had the issue would have been the wrongful death of a misunderstood illegal alien.

You say a lot of things could have prevented the murder. I ask what? The perpetrator saw her running prior to the day he killed her, staked out the route, and carried out his crime. If his background had been legitimately checked out at the time of a legal immigration and if he had priors he would not have been able to enter. Therefore it's logical to conclude that he might not have been there to get turned on by a young isolated woman jogging down a rural road where she had lived safely her entire life until our government screwed up one of its primary responsibilities to its citizens by doing its due diligence and not letting this guy in.

Now could another guy, a legal citizen, have perpetrated this horror? Yes But then that's now what happened is it. And the odds are it wouldn't have happened in a small rural Iowa town. It's possible, but not statistically prevalent enough for your assumption about the woman taking better precautions to have applied, like it would have in a major metropolitan area.

Part of the horror of this situation is that it happened in the heartland. Why? Because once illegals are in the nation they are free to travel wherever they like, frequently using illegal vehicles, with improper registration, no insurance, and free to go to the heartland and prey upon the unsuspecting who have been taught not to prejudge those around them based upon their ethnicity as this woman had been instructed and in good faith had followed.

I submit she was a lamb led to the slaughter by the very beliefs that had been drilled into her. Had she been a city girl familiar with predators of all hues and ethnicity then her general mistrust of humanity might have saved her life.

But spare me the dishonest position that her death had no connection to illegal immigration. She might have been spared had the current laws only been enforced at the border. The failing was that of the government to enforce existing immigration laws, which the building of a barrier of substantial difficulty to circumvent, might have assisted.

The fact that you think I'm victim blaming shows how out of touch you are with this entire discussion. Lots of things could have prevented this crime, and they don't necessarily have anything to do with her, but regardless, his immigration status has zero to do with why he committed this crime.

BTW, the "horror" is the same, no matter if it happened in Iowa or Detroit. The only difference is the false sense of security some people have when they think "small town."
I wonder if some of you would have the same outrage had this woman been an illegal immigrant & the killer a citizen.

The only thing out of touch in this discussion are those of you who jump the shark on the fact that if this illegal had not gotten in the girl would be alive. But that doesn't fit your agenda. So you try to finagle the conversation into the hypothetical anyone could have done it. And saying the girl had a false sense of security and should have taken precautions is blaming the victim.

The fallacy oddly is in moving from a specific fact, "this illegal alien killed that girl", to an irrelevant generalized assumption that "anyone could have killed the girl". If we didn't know who killed her then yes, anyone could have killed the girl. But we know who killed her because he confessed. Therefore nobody else killed the girl, the illegal alien who confessed did. And it is indisputable that had he been detained and sent back, this particular girl in all likelihood would still be alive.

Now as to the usual M.O. that some have around here, blame the one with the contrary viewpoint by labeling them as uncaring or insensitive, I absolutely would be still be horrified had a citizen killed an illegal alien who was a woman. That happens everyday because so many of them are put into sex trafficking where their killers are citizens and illegal and legal aliens alike.

So once again, if we enforce our immigration laws, and actually prevent human trafficking across the borders where the women who are smuggled in for the sex trade are detained and returned home, and those who meet the requirements for a green card are permitted entrance, yet again would innocent lives be spared.

But female illegal aliens are fearful to go to the police for protection because of their status. So letting them in sets them up for further victimization.

It's you who hasn't kept up to speed with the discussion because you ignore the responsible parts of it. And that responsibility is that by enforcement of border control we save lives on both sides of the border.

This. It's like debating a spoiled emotional child that cant focus on the issue. They blame everything but the damn illegal alien.

US Official: No Record Rivera Has Legal Status, E-Verify Wasn’t Used By The Dairy Farm



At the end of the day, he is still an illegal alien.

Quote:Immigration authorities say they have no record of granting admission into the United States to the man suspected of killing an Iowa college student.

A spokesman for U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services said Wednesday that a search of the agency’s records found nothing indicating that Cristhian Bahena Rivera “has any immigration status.”

That potentially contradicts the statement of Rivera’s attorney that he “has the legal documents” to work in the United States.

Rivera is accused of killing 20-year-old Mollie Tibbetts. His immigration status has drawn national attention, and the White House has said Tibbetts’ death has underscored the need for immigration restrictions proposed by President Donald Trump.

The manager of a dairy farm that employed the man charged with killing an Iowa college student says he has received dozens of threatening phone messages and other contacts in the last 24 hours, including death threats.

Dane Lang, manager of Yarrabee Farms in Brooklyn, Iowa, says one person threatened to kill his dog and another said he would burn down his farm buildings. Lang says, “this is a really scary situation.”

Lang says the farm employed Cristhian Bahena Rivera for four years but knew him by a different name, which he did not disclose.

Rivera was charged with first-degree murder in the abduction and death of Mollie Tibbetts.

Government officials say Rivera was in the country illegally but his defense lawyer says he had the proper papers to work in the U.S.

The manager of a dairy farm says the man charged with kidnapping and killing an Iowa college student was a good employee who worked there for four years under a fake name.

Dane Lang, manager of Yarrabee Farms in Brooklyn, Iowa, said that Cristhian Bahena Rivera presented an out-of-state government-issued photo identification and a matching social security card when he was hired in 2014. Lang says, “our employee is not who he said he was.”

Lang said the farm ran the information through the Social Security Administration’s employment verification system and it checked out. He said the farm didn’t use the E-Verify system as it asserted in a statement Tuesday night, saying an employee was mistaken.

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