(08-05-2018 02:00 AM)memtigbb Wrote: I would have really liked to have seen a Holyfield/Tyson fight before Tyson was falling apart.
In fact, Holyfield had a whole lot of really good, great, fights. The Riddick Bowe fights, etc.
Holyfield was much older and slower when they finally met. WAY slower and less mobile in fact.
The biggest key is Holyfield was not intimidated and knew Tyson could not fight backing up. Evander was much stronger than Mike and could push him around and bully him like Tyson always bullied others.
I'm convinced Holyfield had his number no matter when they fought. He was not intimidated and knew how to fight Mike. Physically pushing Tyson back time and time again, always making him back up. Actually keeping him against the ropes and taking Tysons punching leverage away. Tyson needed to be on his toes lunging forward to get off those legendary bombs he had, but Holyfield kept him on his heels the whole time and pushing him against the ropes. Go back and watch that first fight, Tyson is rarely in position to get his punches off. He was often punching off his back heels without any leverage.
Every great fighter has an opponent who just has their number. Evander was always Tyson's kryptonite.
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2018 03:35 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
Hilarious recent discussion between Riddick Bowe and Evander Holyfield.
It's sad to hear how slow and slurred Bowe's speech is compared to his prime. Holyfield sounds the same he did at 21. Maybe even more animated now that back then.
At one point Tyson came up and Evander said Tyson admitted to him later on that Evander never really headbutted/fouled him on purpose. Bowe responds with "You know that n*** was scared of you".
Hilarious recent discussion between Riddick Bowe and Evander Holyfield.
It's sad to hear how slow and slurred Bowe's speech is compared to his prime. Holyfield sounds the same he did at 21. Maybe even more animated now that back then.
At one point Tyson came up and Evander said Tyson admitted to him later on that Evander never really headbutted/fouled him on purpose. Bowe responds with "You know that n*** was scared of you".
lolololol
I think the 3 Holyfield fights are what ruined Bowe. He just wasn't the same fighter after Holyfield.
Even if Tyson said it, I don't believe it. Holyfield was a master with his headbutt. He headbutt in almost every fight he was ever in. Now, you can say it was accidental, just his boxing style, and I might believe it, except one big problem. Holyfield was always on the benefiting side of them. Never did Holyfield get hurt from a headbutt, it was always his opponent. Holyfield made sure to hit the hard part of his forehead on soft spots on his opponent. That isnt just coincedence.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2018 01:47 AM by memtigbb.)
(08-06-2018 11:42 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: Hilarious recent discussion between Riddick Bowe and Evander Holyfield.
It's sad to hear how slow and slurred Bowe's speech is compared to his prime. Holyfield sounds the same he did at 21. Maybe even more animated now that back then.
At one point Tyson came up and Evander said Tyson admitted to him later on that Evander never really headbutted/fouled him on purpose. Bowe responds with "You know that n*** was scared of you".
lolololol
I think the 3 Holyfield fights are what ruined Bowe. He just wasn't the same fighter after Holyfield.
Even if Tyson said it, I don't believe it. Holyfield was a master with his headbutt. He headbutt in almost every fight he was ever in. Now, you can say it was accidental, just his boxing style, and I might believe it, except one big problem. Holyfield was always on the benefiting side of them. Never did Holyfield get hurt from a headbutt, it was always his opponent. Holyfield made sure to hit the hard part of his forehead on soft spots on his opponent. That isnt just coincedence.
Its also no coincidence that no one ever accused Holyfield of headbutting though 95% of his career until Tyson cried like a little girl after getting his butt whipped twice.
He managed to go through nearly 40 professional prize fights and 17 world championship fights and not a single referee, official, or opponent ever once accused him of intentional head-butting. He worked with the top refs in the game for years, and never once was he ever called for intentional headbutting. Even the great Mills lane who worked the 2nd Tyson fight said there were ZERO intentional headbutts. He was standing less than 10 feet from both fighters the whole time. The referee from the first fight said the same thing.
Tyson cried like a little girl making excuses because Holyfield so dominated and embarrassed him.
The fact is if you go back and watch the first fight, Tyson CLEARLY tried to intentionally head butt Evander and his knees buckled after he did it. I've never seen a dirtier fighter than Tyson. He committed every possible foul in the book, including biting peoples ear off.
Unintentional head butts are very common in prize fighting, particularly when you have 2 fighters who like to get close and fight on the inside. Its a well known old school practice to lean your head on your opponent's side or shoulder on the inside so they can't hit you. When you have 2 guys coming in low and fighting in tight, you are guaranteed at minimum at least one head clash in the fight.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2018 04:03 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
Nope, opponents were "crying" about Holyfield headbutting his whole career.
"I didn't think he could do this much damage with his head. He must have a metal plate in there," said Rahman, who hinted that his pre-fight retirement threats were false by saying he would fight Holyfield again. "But I'd have to prepare better for the head butts."
Rahman said he complained to Orlando about head butts from the opening bell.
"He was head-butting me from Round 1. I pointed it out to the referee," said Rahman, in his first fight since November, when he lost his heavyweight title to Lewis seven months after stunning the champ in South Africa.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2018 04:30 AM by memtigbb.)
(08-07-2018 04:28 AM)memtigbb Wrote: Nope, opponents were "crying" about Holyfield headbutting his whole career.
"I didn't think he could do this much damage with his head. He must have a metal plate in there," said Rahman, who hinted that his pre-fight retirement threats were false by saying he would fight Holyfield again. "But I'd have to prepare better for the head butts."
Rahman said he complained to Orlando about head butts from the opening bell.
"He was head-butting me from Round 1. I pointed it out to the referee," said Rahman, in his first fight since November, when he lost his heavyweight title to Lewis seven months after stunning the champ in South Africa.
Perhaps you are unaware, but the Rahman fight was AFTER the Tyson fights. Holyfield had nearly 40 prize fights and 17 world championship fights without a peep about headbutts from anyone. Not the opponents, refs, officials or anyone. Not even the opposing corner men ever mentioned anything before or after those fights. What an amazing coincidence.
All that crybaby crap started with Tyson, and late in Evanders main event career. Rahman was also known to be a well know crybaby after losses who always had BS excuses for losing.
Again, both refs in the Tyson fights agree there were ZERO intentional headbutts. They had the better view and trained eye to watch for head butts, and they were actually IN THE RING with them. I myself have seen both fights countless times, there is not a single intentional headbutt by Holyfield in either fight. Its a fantasy butthurt Tyson fans can't let go of.
You have one of the dirtiest fighters of all time accusing one of the cleanest fighters of all time of intentional head-butting to win a fight. Ridiculous.
When bullies like Tyson get their butts whipped, they turn into crybabies and bite peoples ear off. WHAT A SCUMBAG TYSON WAS.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2018 04:55 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
(08-07-2018 04:28 AM)memtigbb Wrote: Nope, opponents were "crying" about Holyfield headbutting his whole career.
"I didn't think he could do this much damage with his head. He must have a metal plate in there," said Rahman, who hinted that his pre-fight retirement threats were false by saying he would fight Holyfield again. "But I'd have to prepare better for the head butts."
Rahman said he complained to Orlando about head butts from the opening bell.
"He was head-butting me from Round 1. I pointed it out to the referee," said Rahman, in his first fight since November, when he lost his heavyweight title to Lewis seven months after stunning the champ in South Africa.
Perhaps you are unaware, but the Rahman fight was AFTER the Tyson fights. Holyfield had nearly 40 prize fights and 17 world championship fights without a peep about headbutts from anyone. Not the opponents, refs, officials or anyone. Not even the opposing corner men ever mentioned anything before or after those fights. What an amazing coincidence.
All that crybaby crap started with Tyson, and late in Evanders main event career. Rahman was also known to be a well know crybaby after losses who always had BS excuses for losing.
Again, both refs in the Tyson fights agree there were ZERO intentional headbutts. They had the better view and trained eye to watch for head butts, and they were actually IN THE RING with them. I myself have seen both fights countless times, there is not a single intentional headbutt by Holyfield in either fight. Its a fantasy butthurt Tyson fans can't let go of.
You have one of the dirtiest fighters of all time accusing one of the cleanest fighters of all time of intentional head-butting to win a fight. Ridiculous.
When bullies like Tyson get their butts whipped, they turn into crybabies and bite peoples ear off. WHAT A SCUMBAG TYSON WAS.
Tyson (under Sal/Jacobs/Rooney) was probably the best HW ever.
He could kill someone, but also had incredible head movement and a great jab. He was also extremely patient, as evidenced by his willingness to go the distance with guys like Blood Green, Tillis, Tubbs, and Bonecrusher--dudes who essentially ran the entire fights.
Once King got his hooks in Tyson, it was over.
Watching that Douglass fight, his corner was a group of idiots. They didn't have ice or no swell. One dude pulled a condom out of his wallet and filled it up with some water.
Tyson would have whooped Holyfield in '92. That was before Holyfield was full roid, too.
(08-07-2018 09:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote: Tyson (under Sal/Jacobs/Rooney) was probably the best HW ever.
Not even close. You have to actually beat great fighters in their prime to even qualify for that discussion.
Tyson NEVER beat a great fighter in his prime. NEVER. He won the title at a low point for the heavyweight division when Larry Holmes was old and washed up and there were no great fighters. His greatest opponent was Michael Spinks? Laughable
That's is a weak as it gets, Spinks was not even a heavyweight and clearly LOST his last fight with Holmes. Tyson also ducked a 42-year old Geroge Foreman and couldn't finish off Razor Rudduck in 2 fights (a guy Lennox Lews destroyed in 2 rounds a year later)
By the time Holyfield had moved up and actual talented and dangerous fighters like Lewis, Bowe, Moorer and others had come on the scene Tyson was out of the picture and in prison.
No boxing analyst, historian or former fighter would or has ever suggested Tyson was the GOAT.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2018 04:40 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
(08-07-2018 09:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote: Tyson would have whooped Holyfield in '92. That was before Holyfield was full roid, too.
Tyson was in prison for rape in 1992 and Holyfield never gained a pound from 1991 to 1996. He also never failed a drug test in 20+ years of prizefighting (they are some of the most tested athletes in the word) and he is still just as ripped today several years into retirement.
These comments are just absurd to the max.
They are run of the mill excuses hardcore Tyson fans always make through. "He was on riods, He headbutted Tyson, Don King, blah, blah, blah."
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2018 04:41 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
(08-07-2018 09:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote: Tyson would have whooped Holyfield in '92. That was before Holyfield was full roid, too.
Tyson was in prison for rape in 1992 and Holyfield never gained a pound from 1991 to 1996. He also never failed a drug test in 20+ years of prizefighting (they are some of the most tested athletes in the word) and he is still just as ripped today several years into retirement.
1. Evander Holyfield (44-10-2, 29 KO’s)
Accomplishments: Managed to father at least 11 children despite suffering from hypo-gonadism (shrunken balls)
Drug of choice: Testosterone/Saizen (HGH)/Glukor (treatment for impotence)
Remarks: Federal documents say Holyfield received packages containing human growth hormones in 2004. The packages were addressed to an “Evan Fields,” but Holyfield’s PED usage could have possibly started in 1988 during his jump up to heavyweight. According to Dr. Margaret Goodman, Holyfield was questioned by the Nevada State Athletic Commission about HGH usage following his 1994 loss to Michael Moorer. After the fight Holyfield encountered heart problems that could have been caused by growth hormone usage.
(08-07-2018 09:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote: Tyson (under Sal/Jacobs/Rooney) was probably the best HW ever.
Not even close. You have to actually beat great fighters in their prime to even qualify for that discussion.
Tyson NEVER beat a great fighter in his prime. NEVER. He won the title at a low point for the heavyweight division when Larry Holmes was old and washed up and there were no great fighters. His greatest opponent was Michael Spinks? Laughable
That's is a weak as it gets, Spinks was not even a heavyweight and clearly LOST his last fight with Holmes. Tyson also ducked a 42-year old Geroge Foreman and couldn't finish off Razor Rudduck in 2 fights (a guy Lennox Lews destroyed in 2 rounds a year later)
By the time Holyfield has moved up and actual talented and dangerous fighters like Lewis, Bowe, Moorer and others had come on the scene Tyson was out of the picture and in prison.
No boxing analyst or former fighter would or has ever suggested Tyson was the GOAT.
...and part of that was because Tyson didn't get to finish out his arc.
He has all the tools: great jab, elusive head movement, boxing plus devastating power. Good cardio and a strong chin.
The combo of prison time and losing Rooney and bringing in King's clowns absolutely stunted his potential.
Holyfield's best wins as heavyweight? Ray Mercer? Michael Moorer? 1-2 vs. Bowe.
Holyfield was 2-4-1 vs. Lewis, Bowe, and Moorer.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2018 03:52 PM by salukiblue.)
(08-07-2018 09:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote: Tyson would have whooped Holyfield in '92. That was before Holyfield was full roid, too.
Tyson was in prison for rape in 1992 and Holyfield never gained a pound from 1991 to 1996. He also never failed a drug test in 20+ years of prizefighting (they are some of the most tested athletes in the word) and he is still just as ripped today several years into retirement.
1. Evander Holyfield (44-10-2, 29 KO’s)
Accomplishments: Managed to father at least 11 children despite suffering from hypo-gonadism (shrunken balls)
Drug of choice: Testosterone/Saizen (HGH)/Glukor (treatment for impotence)
Remarks: Federal documents say Holyfield received packages containing human growth hormones in 2004. The packages were addressed to an “Evan Fields,” but Holyfield’s PED usage could have possibly started in 1988 during his jump up to heavyweight. According to Dr. Margaret Goodman, Holyfield was questioned by the Nevada State Athletic Commission about HGH usage following his 1994 loss to Michael Moorer. After the fight Holyfield encountered heart problems that could have been caused by growth hormone usage.
(08-07-2018 09:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote: Tyson (under Sal/Jacobs/Rooney) was probably the best HW ever.
Not even close. You have to actually beat great fighters in their prime to even qualify for that discussion.
Tyson NEVER beat a great fighter in his prime. NEVER. He won the title at a low point for the heavyweight division when Larry Holmes was old and washed up and there were no great fighters. His greatest opponent was Michael Spinks? Laughable
That's is a weak as it gets, Spinks was not even a heavyweight and clearly LOST his last fight with Holmes. Tyson also ducked a 42-year old Geroge Foreman and couldn't finish off Razor Rudduck in 2 fights (a guy Lennox Lews destroyed in 2 rounds a year later)
By the time Holyfield has moved up and actual talented and dangerous fighters like Lewis, Bowe, Moorer and others had come on the scene Tyson was out of the picture and in prison.
No boxing analyst or former fighter would or has ever suggested Tyson was the GOAT.
...and part of that was because Tyson didn't get to finish out his arc.
He has all the tools: great jab, elusive head movement, boxing plus devastating power. Good cardio and a strong chin.
The combo of prison time and losing Rooney and bringing in King's clowns absolutely stunted his potential.
Holyfield's best wins as heavyweight? Ray Mercer? Michael Moorer? 1-2 vs. Bowe.
Holyfield was 2-4-1 vs. Lewis, Bowe, and Moorer.
Plus those 2 epic beatdowns of Mike Tyson.
lol
He beat Riddick Bowe in his prime, really beat Michael Moorer twice in his prime (he clearly won the first fight and was robbed), he beat Ray Mercer in his prime, and fought Lennox Lews to a draw at his peak, well past Evanders prime. He also KO's 3 world champions as a cruiserweight.
Holyfield was the unified, undisputed Cruiserweight champion AND a 2 time undisputed heavyweight champion. His list of opponents and accomplishments is 10 times more impressive than Tysons.
There is no comparison here. Tyson was a rapist, a coward and bit** who bit people ears off.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2018 04:09 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
(08-07-2018 09:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote: Tyson (under Sal/Jacobs/Rooney) was probably the best HW ever.
Not even close. You have to actually beat great fighters in their prime to even qualify for that discussion.
Tyson NEVER beat a great fighter in his prime. NEVER. He won the title at a low point for the heavyweight division when Larry Holmes was old and washed up and there were no great fighters. His greatest opponent was Michael Spinks? Laughable
That's is a weak as it gets, Spinks was not even a heavyweight and clearly LOST his last fight with Holmes. Tyson also ducked a 42-year old Geroge Foreman and couldn't finish off Razor Rudduck in 2 fights (a guy Lennox Lews destroyed in 2 rounds a year later)
By the time Holyfield has moved up and actual talented and dangerous fighters like Lewis, Bowe, Moorer and others had come on the scene Tyson was out of the picture and in prison.
No boxing analyst or former fighter would or has ever suggested Tyson was the GOAT.
...and part of that was because Tyson didn't get to finish out his arc.
He has all the tools: great jab, elusive head movement, boxing plus devastating power. Good cardio and a strong chin.
The combo of prison time and losing Rooney and bringing in King's clowns absolutely stunted his potential.
Holyfield's best wins as heavyweight? Ray Mercer? Michael Moorer? 1-2 vs. Bowe.
Holyfield was 2-4-1 vs. Lewis, Bowe, and Moorer.
Plus those 2 epic beatdowns of Mike Tyson.
lol
Holyfield was the unified, undisputed Cruiserweight champion AND a 2 time unified undisputed heavyweight champion. His list of opponents and accomplishments is 10 times more impressive than Tysons.
He was a great cruiser. No doubt.
Got his "special nutritionist" to bulk up to HW.
Definitely whooped Tyson. Like I continually note, I really wish the Tyson of Kevin Rooney and Jimmy Jacobs had had the chance to fight in the early and mid-90's.
(08-07-2018 04:03 PM)salukiblue Wrote: He was a great cruiser. No doubt.
Got his "special nutritionist" to bulk up to HW.
Definitely whooped Tyson. Like I continually note, I really wish the Tyson of Kevin Rooney and Jimmy Jacobs had had the chance to fight in the early and mid-90's.
A gazillion fighters have moved up from cruiser to heavy. Some from middleweight to heavy. The only reason you cry foul here is because he whipped your boys butt so badly twice. The reality is Evander slowly gained weight when he moved up, not suddenly in 6 months like roids do. It took him a couple of years to hit his natural heavyweight range. ANd he never got any bigger from 1991 through 96-97 when the Tyson fights happened.
The fact is no matter who was training him, Tyson lacked the mental capacity to maintain his career AND his life and never would have not mattered who his trainer or manager was.
It was Tyson who chose to hook up with Don King, not someone else.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2018 09:00 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
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Boxing dream matches
