(07-19-2018 10:29 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I want you guys to be honest here. Do any of you appreciate what I do? You do get to see all sides here. Do you want an echo chamber? I think for the most part many of you do but that’s where MY civic duty comes in. You guys wouldn’t last in a left leaning environment. I’m out here trading punches everyday. That’s not easy folks but in the end it’s my cross to bear. A lot of ways it’s easy because your sources are so suspect and 99% of the time I have the truth on my side. All I have to do is ask you where did you get that? Can you please cite the source. When I do that know I have your ass because I know what you are saying is bull**** and your source is not credible. At the end. If I can open up some dialogue. Change some viewpoints. It’s worth it.

I'll be honest Mach.

At times you do bring some valid points, however, most of that has turned out to be bunk. On the flip side same thing happens with conservatives here.

I try to look at all angles of this thing but time and time again I'm finding that nobody truly has a good grasp not even Mueller. You say he's three months ahead I say he's trying to grab headlines and currently he's not doing too hot. Honestly who indicts people in February and then stonewall's and asks for delays trying to deny their right to a speedy trial because he doesn't have evidence to produce? Or currently bankrupting people associated with the Trump team to have them give him something, anything. I don't think he's three months ahead I think he's grasping at straws. This didn't come from a news article but from the actual court documents that have been posted here a few times.

I've read some of the things you post and I'm possibly one of your harshest critics (due to citing podcasts from bankers who claim to have broken the dossier code, to message board ramblings) but at times you do bring nuggets. And alot of them go nowhere.

The one thing I wish you and, not just you, others on both sides would do is research the topic on both sides of the aisle instead of posting Mother Jones, Vox, Daily Caller, Gateway Pundit, etc. I mean personally the last few days in the gym I've listened to Dan Bongino and he puts alot of info out there, but I'm not running with it until I get a good feel. And notice I haven't started a thread in a couple weeks because I don't have anything viable to bring up yet.

JMO. Have a good'en.

(07-19-2018 10:48 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  So BuffaloTN.

When you see a post that you deem “crazy” it should be rather simple for one to give evidence and facts to dispute it. Should be easy for any “sane” person, yes? I would guess that you like to label things crazy when you can’t dispute them. Looking forward to debating you the next time you see something “crazy”.

Its hard to disprove a negative. Just saying.

I do worry about your sanity Mach. I mean that sincerely, not as a joke or poking fun. You seem very invested, stressed, angry, and/or frustrated based upon the collusion Russia narrative. Ive noticed a change in your posts since Trump was elected. Take care of yourself. I learned a long time ago, that politics just isnt worth stressing yourself out over. I probably owe that to my wife who doesnt even care to vote and takes the view that if voting changed anything theyd make it illegal.

And on a humorous note, even if you are correct and Trump is a puppet of Putin, Putin is running things pretty good right? The economy is booming, the US hasnt started any new wars, ISIS is defeated.

I can't add anything to what a couple of other respondents have stated. I've said it numerous times, seek help.

Mach, you sometimes lose your cool and say some pretty out there sh*t, like really out there, but the reality is, you’re not anywhere near the genuinely concerningly crazy users on this forum. You’re not crazy to think that a president whose family and campaign colluded with agents they knew were working with a foreign government, probably did so himself on some level.

Fact is, to many around around here outright stating support for any number of downright insane conspiracy theories, from Clinton body bags to Pizzagate to Seth Rich is less questionable than thinking Trump colluded with Russia. Which, again, given the fact that we know his son, son-in-law, and campaign head all colluded with Russia, seems downright reasonable. Especially considering his actions.

Edit: to be fair I don’t visit this place much, it’s more the place I go to see what conspiracy theories any schizophrenic or manic patients will be saying soon, so it’s possible I missed some crazy meltdowns or something. But know you won’t get an honest appraisal of what you do here by many users.

(07-19-2018 12:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Mach, you sometimes lose your cool and say some pretty out there sh*t, like really out there, but the reality is, you’re not anywhere near the genuinely concerningly crazy users on this forum. You’re not crazy to think that a president whose family and campaign colluded with agents they knew were working with a foreign government, probably did so himself on some level.

Fact is, to many around around here outright stating support for any number of downright insane conspiracy theories, from Clinton body bags to Pizzagate to Seth Rich is less questionable than thinking Trump colluded with Russia. Which, again, given the fact that we know his son, son-in-law, and campaign head all colluded with Russia, seems downright reasonable. Especially considering his actions.

Edit: to be fair I don’t visit this place much, it’s more the place I go to see what conspiracy theories any schizophrenic or manic patients will be saying soon, so it’s possible I missed some crazy meltdowns or something. But know you won’t get an honest appraisal of what you do here by many users.

Really? The Clinton body bags and Seth Rich are crazy?? That's as real as s hit gets. I don't need any confirmation that those conspiracy theories are real.

(07-19-2018 12:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Mach, you sometimes lose your cool and say some pretty out there sh*t, like really out there, but the reality is, you’re not anywhere near the genuinely concerningly crazy users on this forum. You’re not crazy to think that a president whose family and campaign colluded with agents they knew were working with a foreign government, probably did so himself on some level.

Fact is, to many around around here outright stating support for any number of downright insane conspiracy theories, from Clinton body bags to Pizzagate to Seth Rich is less questionable than thinking Trump colluded with Russia. Which, again, given the fact that we know his son, son-in-law, and campaign head all colluded with Russia, seems downright reasonable. Especially considering his actions.

Edit: to be fair I don’t visit this place much, it’s more the place I go to see what conspiracy theories any schizophrenic or manic patients will be saying soon, so it’s possible I missed some crazy meltdowns or something. But know you won’t get an honest appraisal of what you do here by many users.

We all know this? Man so all these people are perp walking?

So Obama clapper Brennan and comey let the Russians "meddle" in the election but democrats blame Trump.

Abject stupidity.

(07-19-2018 12:42 PM)BuffaloTN Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 12:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Mach, you sometimes lose your cool and say some pretty out there sh*t, like really out there, but the reality is, you’re not anywhere near the genuinely concerningly crazy users on this forum. You’re not crazy to think that a president whose family and campaign colluded with agents they knew were working with a foreign government, probably did so himself on some level.

Fact is, to many around around here outright stating support for any number of downright insane conspiracy theories, from Clinton body bags to Pizzagate to Seth Rich is less questionable than thinking Trump colluded with Russia. Which, again, given the fact that we know his son, son-in-law, and campaign head all colluded with Russia, seems downright reasonable. Especially considering his actions.

Edit: to be fair I don’t visit this place much, it’s more the place I go to see what conspiracy theories any schizophrenic or manic patients will be saying soon, so it’s possible I missed some crazy meltdowns or something. But know you won’t get an honest appraisal of what you do here by many users.

Really? The Clinton body bags and Seth Rich are crazy?? That's as real as s hit gets. I don't need any confirmation that those conspiracy theories are real.

See what I mean? He doesn’t even need confirmation to believe an email forward which states the Clintons Killed dozens of people, but it’s insane to think that Trump knew about a meeting that involved his son, his son in law, and his campaign head.

(07-19-2018 12:53 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 12:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Mach, you sometimes lose your cool and say some pretty out there sh*t, like really out there, but the reality is, you’re not anywhere near the genuinely concerningly crazy users on this forum. You’re not crazy to think that a president whose family and campaign colluded with agents they knew were working with a foreign government, probably did so himself on some level.

Fact is, to many around around here outright stating support for any number of downright insane conspiracy theories, from Clinton body bags to Pizzagate to Seth Rich is less questionable than thinking Trump colluded with Russia. Which, again, given the fact that we know his son, son-in-law, and campaign head all colluded with Russia, seems downright reasonable. Especially considering his actions.

Edit: to be fair I don’t visit this place much, it’s more the place I go to see what conspiracy theories any schizophrenic or manic patients will be saying soon, so it’s possible I missed some crazy meltdowns or something. But know you won’t get an honest appraisal of what you do here by many users.

We all know this? Man so all these people are perp walking?

Because collusion isn’t necessarily illegal. Wait, what do you think collusion is?

(07-19-2018 12:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Mach, you sometimes lose your cool and say some pretty out there sh*t, like really out there, but the reality is, you’re not anywhere near the genuinely concerningly crazy users on this forum. You’re not crazy to think that a president whose family and campaign colluded with agents they knew were working with a foreign government, probably did so himself on some level.

Fact is, to many around around here outright stating support for any number of downright insane conspiracy theories, from Clinton body bags to Pizzagate to Seth Rich is less questionable than thinking Trump colluded with Russia. Which, again, given the fact that we know his son, son-in-law, and campaign head all colluded with Russia, seems downright reasonable. Especially considering his actions.

Edit: to be fair I don’t visit this place much, it’s more the place I go to see what conspiracy theories any schizophrenic or manic patients will be saying soon, so it’s possible I missed some crazy meltdowns or something. But know you won’t get an honest appraisal of what you do here by many users.

On the issue of the meeting with the russian lawyer. Its not clear who she worked for, but there is information which suggests she was an operative for FusionGPS and the whole meeting was a setup. I agree the meeting shows a willingness on the part of some in the trump campaign to accept damaging information from a foreign source. Not the same thing as collusion or conspiracy, but not completely above board either.

(07-19-2018 01:21 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 12:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Mach, you sometimes lose your cool and say some pretty out there sh*t, like really out there, but the reality is, you’re not anywhere near the genuinely concerningly crazy users on this forum. You’re not crazy to think that a president whose family and campaign colluded with agents they knew were working with a foreign government, probably did so himself on some level.

Fact is, to many around around here outright stating support for any number of downright insane conspiracy theories, from Clinton body bags to Pizzagate to Seth Rich is less questionable than thinking Trump colluded with Russia. Which, again, given the fact that we know his son, son-in-law, and campaign head all colluded with Russia, seems downright reasonable. Especially considering his actions.

Edit: to be fair I don’t visit this place much, it’s more the place I go to see what conspiracy theories any schizophrenic or manic patients will be saying soon, so it’s possible I missed some crazy meltdowns or something. But know you won’t get an honest appraisal of what you do here by many users.

On the issue of the meeting with the russian lawyer. Its not clear who she worked for, but there is information which suggests she was an operative for FusionGPS and the whole meeting was a setup. I agree the meeting shows a willingness on the part of some in the trump campaign to accept damaging information from a foreign source. Not the same thing as collusion or conspiracy, but not completely above board either.

1. Mind providing the evidence about any connection to FusionGPS? The link I provided was a Fox News summation of the meeting and it mentioned literally nothing about any connection to FusionGPS.

2. Your own characterization of what happened would literally be collusion. I provided a link to the wiki definition, but feel free to look elsewhere. Every definition I’ve seen applies.

(07-19-2018 01:19 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 12:53 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 12:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Mach, you sometimes lose your cool and say some pretty out there sh*t, like really out there, but the reality is, you’re not anywhere near the genuinely concerningly crazy users on this forum. You’re not crazy to think that a president whose family and campaign colluded with agents they knew were working with a foreign government, probably did so himself on some level.

Fact is, to many around around here outright stating support for any number of downright insane conspiracy theories, from Clinton body bags to Pizzagate to Seth Rich is less questionable than thinking Trump colluded with Russia. Which, again, given the fact that we know his son, son-in-law, and campaign head all colluded with Russia, seems downright reasonable. Especially considering his actions.

Edit: to be fair I don’t visit this place much, it’s more the place I go to see what conspiracy theories any schizophrenic or manic patients will be saying soon, so it’s possible I missed some crazy meltdowns or something. But know you won’t get an honest appraisal of what you do here by many users.

We all know this? Man so all these people are perp walking?

Because collusion isn’t necessarily illegal. Wait, what do you think collusion is?

What you don't know and want me to answer for you? Sorry Jack not gonna happen.

Do I think there was collusion? Yep. I don't think it was between a foreign government and a campaign. I think it was between our government and a campaign.

I'd like to enter in exhibit the fact that during the primaries how Bernie was screwed, how HRC was fed questions prior to debates via CNN, and the leaked emails that laid it out.

I'd like to enter into exhibit during the presidential campaign the constant reminding from the sitting administration guaranteeing Trump would not be president, the fact that the DNC paid for unverifiable information that was passed off to the FBI, and the recounts and begging of electorals to change their votes to Clinton. I'd further more like to remind everyone that weeks before the election the sitting president stating that there is no way to rig an election.

So do I think the Russians colluded with President Trump. No. Do I think our government colluded with the Clinton campaign, I feel like yes but evidence isn't there. Just conjecture and hearsay that much like a dossier can't be proven true or credible.

(07-19-2018 01:27 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 01:21 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 12:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Mach, you sometimes lose your cool and say some pretty out there sh*t, like really out there, but the reality is, you’re not anywhere near the genuinely concerningly crazy users on this forum. You’re not crazy to think that a president whose family and campaign colluded with agents they knew were working with a foreign government, probably did so himself on some level.

Fact is, to many around around here outright stating support for any number of downright insane conspiracy theories, from Clinton body bags to Pizzagate to Seth Rich is less questionable than thinking Trump colluded with Russia. Which, again, given the fact that we know his son, son-in-law, and campaign head all colluded with Russia, seems downright reasonable. Especially considering his actions.

Edit: to be fair I don’t visit this place much, it’s more the place I go to see what conspiracy theories any schizophrenic or manic patients will be saying soon, so it’s possible I missed some crazy meltdowns or something. But know you won’t get an honest appraisal of what you do here by many users.

On the issue of the meeting with the russian lawyer. Its not clear who she worked for, but there is information which suggests she was an operative for FusionGPS and the whole meeting was a setup. I agree the meeting shows a willingness on the part of some in the trump campaign to accept damaging information from a foreign source. Not the same thing as collusion or conspiracy, but not completely above board either.

1. Mind providing the evidence about any connection to FusionGPS? The link I provided was a Fox News summation of the meeting and it mentioned literally nothing about any connection to FusionGPS.

2. Your own characterization of what happened would literally be collusion. I provided a link to the wiki definition, but feel free to look elsewhere. Every definition I’ve seen applies.

I'll provide links after work tonight mainly because im terrible a linking things on my cell phone.

(07-19-2018 01:33 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 01:19 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 12:53 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 12:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Mach, you sometimes lose your cool and say some pretty out there sh*t, like really out there, but the reality is, you’re not anywhere near the genuinely concerningly crazy users on this forum. You’re not crazy to think that a president whose family and campaign colluded with agents they knew were working with a foreign government, probably did so himself on some level.

Fact is, to many around around here outright stating support for any number of downright insane conspiracy theories, from Clinton body bags to Pizzagate to Seth Rich is less questionable than thinking Trump colluded with Russia. Which, again, given the fact that we know his son, son-in-law, and campaign head all colluded with Russia, seems downright reasonable. Especially considering his actions.

Edit: to be fair I don’t visit this place much, it’s more the place I go to see what conspiracy theories any schizophrenic or manic patients will be saying soon, so it’s possible I missed some crazy meltdowns or something. But know you won’t get an honest appraisal of what you do here by many users.

We all know this? Man so all these people are perp walking?

Because collusion isn’t necessarily illegal. Wait, what do you think collusion is?

What you don't know and want me to answer for you? Sorry Jack not gonna happen.

Do I think there was collusion? Yep. I don't think it was between a foreign government and a campaign. I think it was between our government and a campaign.

I'd like to enter in exhibit the fact that during the primaries how Bernie was screwed, how HRC was fed questions prior to debates via CNN, and the leaked emails that laid it out.

I'd like to enter into exhibit during the presidential campaign the constant reminding from the sitting administration guaranteeing Trump would not be president, the fact that the DNC paid for unverifiable information that was passed off to the FBI, and the recounts and begging of electorals to change their votes to Clinton. I'd further more like to remind everyone that weeks before the election the sitting president stating that there is no way to rig an election.

So do I think the Russians colluded with President Trump. No. Do I think our government colluded with the Clinton campaign, I feel like yes but evidence isn't there. Just conjecture and hearsay that much like a dossier can't be proven true or credible.

GDunn, I don’t quite know how to address you here because I’m linking a Fox News article about the meeting that Don Jr had with a person he knew as a Russian agent under the pretense that Russia had harmful information on Clinton, and in which they discussed reducing current US sanctions. Afterwards, the members of Trumps campaign lied about the meeting before ultimately coming clean due to the threat of the correspondence being leaked showing his lies. This is collusion. It might not technically be illegal, but it literally fits any definition of collusion I can find, which is why I asked you want you thought it meant. It’s genuinely asking you which definition you were using so that I can understand where you are coming from.

(07-19-2018 02:38 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 01:33 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 01:19 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 12:53 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 12:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Mach, you sometimes lose your cool and say some pretty out there sh*t, like really out there, but the reality is, you’re not anywhere near the genuinely concerningly crazy users on this forum. You’re not crazy to think that a president whose family and campaign colluded with agents they knew were working with a foreign government, probably did so himself on some level.

Fact is, to many around around here outright stating support for any number of downright insane conspiracy theories, from Clinton body bags to Pizzagate to Seth Rich is less questionable than thinking Trump colluded with Russia. Which, again, given the fact that we know his son, son-in-law, and campaign head all colluded with Russia, seems downright reasonable. Especially considering his actions.

Edit: to be fair I don’t visit this place much, it’s more the place I go to see what conspiracy theories any schizophrenic or manic patients will be saying soon, so it’s possible I missed some crazy meltdowns or something. But know you won’t get an honest appraisal of what you do here by many users.

We all know this? Man so all these people are perp walking?

Because collusion isn’t necessarily illegal. Wait, what do you think collusion is?

What you don't know and want me to answer for you? Sorry Jack not gonna happen.

Do I think there was collusion? Yep. I don't think it was between a foreign government and a campaign. I think it was between our government and a campaign.

I'd like to enter in exhibit the fact that during the primaries how Bernie was screwed, how HRC was fed questions prior to debates via CNN, and the leaked emails that laid it out.

I'd like to enter into exhibit during the presidential campaign the constant reminding from the sitting administration guaranteeing Trump would not be president, the fact that the DNC paid for unverifiable information that was passed off to the FBI, and the recounts and begging of electorals to change their votes to Clinton. I'd further more like to remind everyone that weeks before the election the sitting president stating that there is no way to rig an election.

So do I think the Russians colluded with President Trump. No. Do I think our government colluded with the Clinton campaign, I feel like yes but evidence isn't there. Just conjecture and hearsay that much like a dossier can't be proven true or credible.

GDunn, I don’t quite know how to address you here because I’m linking a Fox News article about the meeting that Don Jr had with a person he knew as a Russian agent under the pretense that Russia had harmful information on Clinton, and in which they discussed reducing current US sanctions. Afterwards, the members of Trumps campaign lied about the meeting before ultimately coming clean due to the threat of the correspondence being leaked showing his lies. This is collusion. It might not technically be illegal, but it literally fits any definition of collusion I can find, which is why I asked you want you thought it meant. It’s genuinely asking you which definition you were using so that I can understand where you are coming from.

My understanding of collusion is when two parties work together to undermine a third or more party in secret.

(07-19-2018 02:42 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 02:38 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 01:33 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 01:19 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 12:53 PM)gdunn Wrote:  We all know this? Man so all these people are perp walking?

Because collusion isn’t necessarily illegal. Wait, what do you think collusion is?

What you don't know and want me to answer for you? Sorry Jack not gonna happen.

Do I think there was collusion? Yep. I don't think it was between a foreign government and a campaign. I think it was between our government and a campaign.

I'd like to enter in exhibit the fact that during the primaries how Bernie was screwed, how HRC was fed questions prior to debates via CNN, and the leaked emails that laid it out.

I'd like to enter into exhibit during the presidential campaign the constant reminding from the sitting administration guaranteeing Trump would not be president, the fact that the DNC paid for unverifiable information that was passed off to the FBI, and the recounts and begging of electorals to change their votes to Clinton. I'd further more like to remind everyone that weeks before the election the sitting president stating that there is no way to rig an election.

So do I think the Russians colluded with President Trump. No. Do I think our government colluded with the Clinton campaign, I feel like yes but evidence isn't there. Just conjecture and hearsay that much like a dossier can't be proven true or credible.

GDunn, I don’t quite know how to address you here because I’m linking a Fox News article about the meeting that Don Jr had with a person he knew as a Russian agent under the pretense that Russia had harmful information on Clinton, and in which they discussed reducing current US sanctions. Afterwards, the members of Trumps campaign lied about the meeting before ultimately coming clean due to the threat of the correspondence being leaked showing his lies. This is collusion. It might not technically be illegal, but it literally fits any definition of collusion I can find, which is why I asked you want you thought it meant. It’s genuinely asking you which definition you were using so that I can understand where you are coming from.

My understanding of collusion is when two parties work together to undermine a third or more party in secret.

That’s about my understanding as well. So that meeting with Don Jr/Kushner/Manafort and the Russian agents, which was about information which is harmful to Clinton, was an example of collusion. That doesn’t necessarily mean Trump knew about the meeting, or that they effectively bartered the information, but the meeting itself was an example of collusion, and collusion that the campaign lied about until they were called out on it.

Regardless, it certainly is not a belief that implies a person is crazy.

(07-19-2018 02:52 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 02:42 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 02:38 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 01:33 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 01:19 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Because collusion isn’t necessarily illegal. Wait, what do you think collusion is?

What you don't know and want me to answer for you? Sorry Jack not gonna happen.

Do I think there was collusion? Yep. I don't think it was between a foreign government and a campaign. I think it was between our government and a campaign.

I'd like to enter in exhibit the fact that during the primaries how Bernie was screwed, how HRC was fed questions prior to debates via CNN, and the leaked emails that laid it out.

I'd like to enter into exhibit during the presidential campaign the constant reminding from the sitting administration guaranteeing Trump would not be president, the fact that the DNC paid for unverifiable information that was passed off to the FBI, and the recounts and begging of electorals to change their votes to Clinton. I'd further more like to remind everyone that weeks before the election the sitting president stating that there is no way to rig an election.

So do I think the Russians colluded with President Trump. No. Do I think our government colluded with the Clinton campaign, I feel like yes but evidence isn't there. Just conjecture and hearsay that much like a dossier can't be proven true or credible.

GDunn, I don’t quite know how to address you here because I’m linking a Fox News article about the meeting that Don Jr had with a person he knew as a Russian agent under the pretense that Russia had harmful information on Clinton, and in which they discussed reducing current US sanctions. Afterwards, the members of Trumps campaign lied about the meeting before ultimately coming clean due to the threat of the correspondence being leaked showing his lies. This is collusion. It might not technically be illegal, but it literally fits any definition of collusion I can find, which is why I asked you want you thought it meant. It’s genuinely asking you which definition you were using so that I can understand where you are coming from.

My understanding of collusion is when two parties work together to undermine a third or more party in secret.

That’s about my understanding as well. So that meeting with Don Jr/Kushner/Manafort and the Russian agents, which was about information which is harmful to Clinton, was an example of collusion. That doesn’t necessarily mean Trump knew about the meeting, or that they effectively bartered the information, but the meeting itself was an example of collusion, and collusion that the campaign lied about until they were called out on it.

Regardless, it certainly is not a belief that implies a person is crazy.

It is when that person has repeated stated that Trump has colluded with Russia to commit treason.

You really dont believe Mach is talking about this in the tern of simple collusion and no crime. If not then you haven't read 1% of his post.

So in the context of what you said I take it you don't have any doubt that Hillary was colliding with a Russian Agent? When you pay for something and the person you pay uses Russian agents then you turn around and use that work.....


its collusion

As far as Trump Jr, the meeting itself was NOT an example of collusion. It was a meeting and nothing came from it. If Trump Jr took something from a Russian Agent then used it...then you have collusion. Really big difference there.

You know like Hillary's team used the dossier that she paid for that had information from a Russian Agent. She knew (it said so in writing) that the information she paid for came from Russia. Yet she still funded it.

(07-19-2018 02:52 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 02:42 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 02:38 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 01:33 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 01:19 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Because collusion isn’t necessarily illegal. Wait, what do you think collusion is?

What you don't know and want me to answer for you? Sorry Jack not gonna happen.

Do I think there was collusion? Yep. I don't think it was between a foreign government and a campaign. I think it was between our government and a campaign.

I'd like to enter in exhibit the fact that during the primaries how Bernie was screwed, how HRC was fed questions prior to debates via CNN, and the leaked emails that laid it out.

I'd like to enter into exhibit during the presidential campaign the constant reminding from the sitting administration guaranteeing Trump would not be president, the fact that the DNC paid for unverifiable information that was passed off to the FBI, and the recounts and begging of electorals to change their votes to Clinton. I'd further more like to remind everyone that weeks before the election the sitting president stating that there is no way to rig an election.

So do I think the Russians colluded with President Trump. No. Do I think our government colluded with the Clinton campaign, I feel like yes but evidence isn't there. Just conjecture and hearsay that much like a dossier can't be proven true or credible.

GDunn, I don’t quite know how to address you here because I’m linking a Fox News article about the meeting that Don Jr had with a person he knew as a Russian agent under the pretense that Russia had harmful information on Clinton, and in which they discussed reducing current US sanctions. Afterwards, the members of Trumps campaign lied about the meeting before ultimately coming clean due to the threat of the correspondence being leaked showing his lies. This is collusion. It might not technically be illegal, but it literally fits any definition of collusion I can find, which is why I asked you want you thought it meant. It’s genuinely asking you which definition you were using so that I can understand where you are coming from.

My understanding of collusion is when two parties work together to undermine a third or more party in secret.

That’s about my understanding as well. So that meeting with Don Jr/Kushner/Manafort and the Russian agents, which was about information which is harmful to Clinton, was an example of collusion. That doesn’t necessarily mean Trump knew about the meeting, or that they effectively bartered the information, but the meeting itself was an example of collusion, and collusion that the campaign lied about until they were called out on it.

Regardless, it certainly is not a belief that implies a person is crazy.

(07-19-2018 01:49 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 01:27 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 01:21 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(07-19-2018 12:25 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Mach, you sometimes lose your cool and say some pretty out there sh*t, like really out there, but the reality is, you’re not anywhere near the genuinely concerningly crazy users on this forum. You’re not crazy to think that a president whose family and campaign colluded with agents they knew were working with a foreign government, probably did so himself on some level.

Fact is, to many around around here outright stating support for any number of downright insane conspiracy theories, from Clinton body bags to Pizzagate to Seth Rich is less questionable than thinking Trump colluded with Russia. Which, again, given the fact that we know his son, son-in-law, and campaign head all colluded with Russia, seems downright reasonable. Especially considering his actions.

Edit: to be fair I don’t visit this place much, it’s more the place I go to see what conspiracy theories any schizophrenic or manic patients will be saying soon, so it’s possible I missed some crazy meltdowns or something. But know you won’t get an honest appraisal of what you do here by many users.

On the issue of the meeting with the russian lawyer. Its not clear who she worked for, but there is information which suggests she was an operative for FusionGPS and the whole meeting was a setup. I agree the meeting shows a willingness on the part of some in the trump campaign to accept damaging information from a foreign source. Not the same thing as collusion or conspiracy, but not completely above board either.

1. Mind providing the evidence about any connection to FusionGPS? The link I provided was a Fox News summation of the meeting and it mentioned literally nothing about any connection to FusionGPS.

2. Your own characterization of what happened would literally be collusion. I provided a link to the wiki definition, but feel free to look elsewhere. Every definition I’ve seen applies.

I'll provide links after work tonight mainly because im terrible a linking things on my cell phone.

You can google Russian Lawyer Meeting Trump Fusion GPS and find a ton of stories.
Basically, the lawyer has deep ties to Fusion GPS' Glenn Simpson. She meet with him before and after the Trump Jr. Meeting and passed Fusion GPS information to them reportedly. She's also defended Glenn Simpson saying he's been "framed." I just find it all very odd. It smells very fishy like a setup.

Hill.com story

NBC News Story

Washington Times Story

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...37582.html

Logic doesn't work well on the left.

"...In Obama’s first summit with Putin in July 2009, Obama sat meekly as Putin delivered an hour-long lecture about how US-Russian relations had gone down the drain.

As Daniel Greenfield noted at Frontpage magazine Tuesday, in succeeding years, Obama capitulated to Putin on anti-missile defense systems in Poland and the Czech Republic, on Ukraine, Georgia and Crimea. Obama gave Putin free rein in Syria and supported Russia’s alliance with Iran on its nuclear program and its efforts to save the Assad regime. He permitted Russian entities linked to the Kremlin to purchase a quarter of American uranium. And of course, Obama made no effort to end Russian meddling in the 2016 elections.

TRUMP IN contrast has stiffened US sanctions against Russian entities. He has withdrawn from Obama’s nuclear deal with Iran. He has agreed to sell Patriot missiles to Poland. And he has placed tariffs on Russian exports to the US.

So if Trump is Putin’s agent, what was Obama?..."