The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
...and that we do not realize that foreign powers interfering in U.S. elections or any other countries elections happens frequently. This is why all of this bemuses me.
It's been common knowledge that throughout the Cold War the U.S. and then Soviets routinely used a variety of "spookcraft" on each other via propaganda programs, intelligence gathering and election interference. Hell, that comic "Spy vs Spy", the James Bond character and virtually all books written by John Le Carre glamorize Cold War activities! Consider this interview from 2016.
Quote:This is hardly the first time a country has tried to influence the outcome of another country's election. The U.S. has done it, too, by one expert's count, more than 80 times worldwide between 1946 and 2000. That expert is Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University. I asked him to tell me about one election where U.S. intervention likely made a difference in the outcome.
DOV LEVIN: One example of that was our intervention in Serbia, Yugoslavia in the 2000 election there. Slobodan Milosevic was running for re-election, and we didn't want him to stay in power there due to his tendency, you know, to disrupts the Balkans and his human rights violations.
So we intervened in various ways for the opposition candidate, Vojislav Kostunica. And we gave funding to the opposition, and we gave them training and campaigning aide. And according to my estimate, that assistance was crucial in enabling the opposition to win.
SHAPIRO: How often are these interventions public versus covert?
LEVIN: Well, it's - basically there's about - one-third of them are public, and two-third of them are covert. In other words, they're not known to the voters in the target before the election.
SHAPIRO: Your count does not include coups, attempts at regime change. It sounds like depending on the definitions, the tally could actually be much higher.
LEVIN: Well, you're right. I don't count and discount covert coup d'etats like the United States did in Iran in 1953 or in Guatemala in 1954. I only took when the United States is trying directly to influence an election for one of the sides. Other types of interventions - I don't discuss. But if we would include those, then of course the number could be larger, yeah.
SHAPIRO: How often do other countries like Russia, for example, try to alter the outcome of elections as compared to the United States?
LEVIN: Well, for my dataset, the United States is the most common user of this technique. Russia or the Soviet Union since 1945 has used it half as much. My estimate has been 36 cases between 1946 to 2000. We know also that the Chinese have used this technique and the Venezuelans when the late Hugo Chavez was still in power in Venezuela and other countries.
Considering we now live in a digital age where damn near all information goes to the cloud...this is our new reality. If anyone thinks that spycraft went dormant when the Cold War ended...you're an idiot.
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
So I guess we shouldnt care if it happens, we should ignore evidence that it happened, and not care when the POTUS takes the side of Putin over the thousands of Americans whose work comprised the intelligence he dismissed?
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
(07-18-2018 08:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote: So I guess we shouldnt care if it happens, we should ignore evidence that it happened, and not care when the POTUS takes the side of Putin over the thousands of Americans whose work comprised the intelligence he dismissed?
I’m not getting your point.
He's making the point that "election meddling" is minor and overblown and done by every country including the US. No votes were changed, Donald Trump is the lawful duly elected president of the United states. Media and DNC efforts to delegitimize his election will only backfire. And just to be clear, we've not been shown any evidence it has happened, only "assessments" or guesses from the Intel community that it happened and it was Russia. I've seen more actual evidence that it was a leak taken from a flash drive than a hack.
Take me for example, I didn't vote for him in the last election and was not inclined to vote for him the next time. However due to the blatant witch hunt against him, I find myself defending him. I will likely vote for him now due to the misconduct of the media and DNC in pushing this Russia narrative garbage. Additionally, his policy choices have turned out to be pleasantly surprising.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2018 08:18 AM by Jugnaut.)
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
(07-18-2018 08:16 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote: So I guess we shouldnt care if it happens, we should ignore evidence that it happened, and not care when the POTUS takes the side of Putin over the thousands of Americans whose work comprised the intelligence he dismissed?
I’m not getting your point.
He's making the point that "election meddling" is minor and overblown and done by every country including the US. No votes were changed, Donald Trump is the lawful duly elected president of the United states. Media and DNC efforts to delegitimize his election will only backfire. And just to be clear, we've not been shown any evidence it has happened, only "assessments" or guesses from the Intel community that it happened and it was Russia. I've seen more actual evidence that it was a leak taken from a flash drive than a hack.
Take me for example, I didn't vote for him in the last election and was not inclined to vote for him the next time. However due to the blatant witch hunt against him, I find myself defending him. I will likely vote for him now due to the misconduct of the media and DNC in pushing this Russia narrative garbage. Additionally, his policy choices have turned out to be pleasantly surprising.
With each passing day I'm finding myself more and more in the same situation.........
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
(07-18-2018 08:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote: So I guess we shouldnt care if it happens, we should ignore evidence that it happened, and not care when the POTUS takes the side of Putin over the thousands of Americans whose work comprised the intelligence he dismissed?
I’m not getting your point.
Have you ever had another person lie to your face - I assume yes?
Have you known that they were lying when it was happening - I also assume yes?
Are there instances based on this where you can take/get an advantage by "going along with it"?
What exactly does a public flogging of Putin get you? Some sweet rep points on CSNBBS, maybe some street cred with your people? Absolutely it does.
Do you know what it doesn't get you though? It doesn't get you anywhere with Russia, it closes dialogue, creates more tension and animosity, it begs Russia to try to screw with us even more. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture here. Again, Trump is playing Chess while the angry mob is barely playing checkers.
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
(07-18-2018 08:28 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote: So I guess we shouldnt care if it happens, we should ignore evidence that it happened, and not care when the POTUS takes the side of Putin over the thousands of Americans whose work comprised the intelligence he dismissed?
I’m not getting your point.
Have you ever had another person lie to your face - I assume yes?
Have you known that they were lying when it was happening - I also assume yes?
Are there instances based on this where you can take/get an advantage by "going along with it"?
What exactly does a public flogging of Putin get you? Some sweet rep points on CSNBBS, maybe some street cred with your people? Absolutely it does.
Do you know what it doesn't get you though? It doesn't get you anywhere with Russia, it closes dialogue, creates more tension and animosity, it begs Russia to try to screw with us even more. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture here. Again, Trump is playing Chess while the angry mob is barely playing checkers.
Pretty much, and there was nary a peep when the anointed one said almost just that in early 2017.
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
(07-18-2018 08:16 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote: So I guess we shouldnt care if it happens, we should ignore evidence that it happened, and not care when the POTUS takes the side of Putin over the thousands of Americans whose work comprised the intelligence he dismissed?
I’m not getting your point.
He's making the point that "election meddling" is minor and overblown and done by every country including the US. No votes were changed, Donald Trump is the lawful duly elected president of the United states. Media and DNC efforts to delegitimize his election will only backfire. And just to be clear, we've not been shown any evidence it has happened, only "assessments" or guesses from the Intel community that it happened and it was Russia. I've seen more actual evidence that it was a leak taken from a flash drive than a hack.
Take me for example, I didn't vote for him in the last election and was not inclined to vote for him the next time. However due to the blatant witch hunt against him, I find myself defending him. I will likely vote for him now due to the misconduct of the media and DNC in pushing this Russia narrative garbage. Additionally, his policy choices have turned out to be pleasantly surprising.
Thanks, good synopsis. IMHO, all of the outrage is designed to rev up their base for the November mid term elections. It's blatantly obvious.
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
(07-18-2018 08:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote: So I guess we shouldnt care if it happens, we should ignore evidence that it happened, and not care when the POTUS takes the side of Putin over the thousands of Americans whose work comprised the intelligence he dismissed?
I’m not getting your point.
Funny, I did't see you squealing when Obama was caught on an open Mic telling the Russians about having more leeway after the election.........which basically means "I can do more stuff with whatever after the election, but not before because if the American people knew what I was willing to do - it could cost me the election".............you know - "will of the people and all"......
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
(07-18-2018 09:28 AM)miko33 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:16 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote: So I guess we shouldnt care if it happens, we should ignore evidence that it happened, and not care when the POTUS takes the side of Putin over the thousands of Americans whose work comprised the intelligence he dismissed?
I’m not getting your point.
He's making the point that "election meddling" is minor and overblown and done by every country including the US. No votes were changed, Donald Trump is the lawful duly elected president of the United states. Media and DNC efforts to delegitimize his election will only backfire. And just to be clear, we've not been shown any evidence it has happened, only "assessments" or guesses from the Intel community that it happened and it was Russia. I've seen more actual evidence that it was a leak taken from a flash drive than a hack.
Take me for example, I didn't vote for him in the last election and was not inclined to vote for him the next time. However due to the blatant witch hunt against him, I find myself defending him. I will likely vote for him now due to the misconduct of the media and DNC in pushing this Russia narrative garbage. Additionally, his policy choices have turned out to be pleasantly surprising.
Thanks, good synopsis. IMHO, all of the outrage is designed to rev up their base for the November mid term elections. It's blatantly obvious.
You think the FBI investigation is all part of the DNC revving up their base? Sure, yeah, that makes sense.
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
(07-18-2018 10:05 AM)UCF08 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 09:28 AM)miko33 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:16 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote: So I guess we shouldnt care if it happens, we should ignore evidence that it happened, and not care when the POTUS takes the side of Putin over the thousands of Americans whose work comprised the intelligence he dismissed?
I’m not getting your point.
He's making the point that "election meddling" is minor and overblown and done by every country including the US. No votes were changed, Donald Trump is the lawful duly elected president of the United states. Media and DNC efforts to delegitimize his election will only backfire. And just to be clear, we've not been shown any evidence it has happened, only "assessments" or guesses from the Intel community that it happened and it was Russia. I've seen more actual evidence that it was a leak taken from a flash drive than a hack.
Take me for example, I didn't vote for him in the last election and was not inclined to vote for him the next time. However due to the blatant witch hunt against him, I find myself defending him. I will likely vote for him now due to the misconduct of the media and DNC in pushing this Russia narrative garbage. Additionally, his policy choices have turned out to be pleasantly surprising.
Thanks, good synopsis. IMHO, all of the outrage is designed to rev up their base for the November mid term elections. It's blatantly obvious.
You think the FBI investigation is all part of the DNC revving up their base? Sure, yeah, that makes sense.
I'm not talking about the FBI investigation. I'm talking about the faux outrage by the MSM and the Democrats. You saw Rod Rosenstein's press conference before Trump met with Putin, didn't you? Did you not hear that he stated that no American was found to have knowingly cooperated with Russian operatives to meddle with the election?
But you also heard Democrats howl at Trump's original words after he met with Putin, correct? You heard the accusations of Treason, correct?
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
(07-18-2018 10:15 AM)miko33 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 10:05 AM)UCF08 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 09:28 AM)miko33 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:16 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote: So I guess we shouldnt care if it happens, we should ignore evidence that it happened, and not care when the POTUS takes the side of Putin over the thousands of Americans whose work comprised the intelligence he dismissed?
I’m not getting your point.
He's making the point that "election meddling" is minor and overblown and done by every country including the US. No votes were changed, Donald Trump is the lawful duly elected president of the United states. Media and DNC efforts to delegitimize his election will only backfire. And just to be clear, we've not been shown any evidence it has happened, only "assessments" or guesses from the Intel community that it happened and it was Russia. I've seen more actual evidence that it was a leak taken from a flash drive than a hack.
Take me for example, I didn't vote for him in the last election and was not inclined to vote for him the next time. However due to the blatant witch hunt against him, I find myself defending him. I will likely vote for him now due to the misconduct of the media and DNC in pushing this Russia narrative garbage. Additionally, his policy choices have turned out to be pleasantly surprising.
Thanks, good synopsis. IMHO, all of the outrage is designed to rev up their base for the November mid term elections. It's blatantly obvious.
You think the FBI investigation is all part of the DNC revving up their base? Sure, yeah, that makes sense.
I'm not talking about the FBI investigation. I'm talking about the faux outrage by the MSM and the Democrats. You saw Rod Rosenstein's press conference before Trump met with Putin, didn't you? Did you not hear that he stated that no American was found to have knowingly cooperated with Russian operatives to meddle with the election?
But you also heard Democrats howl at Trump's original words after he met with Putin, correct? You heard the accusations of Treason, correct?
So you’re calling the outrage faux, and when I mention on of the very real, tangible reasons for their outrage, you claim you’re not talking about that? I’m confused.
And yes, I heard their accusations of treason. I don’t find their reactions to be the surprising or even noticeable takeaway from that summit though.
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
(07-18-2018 10:29 AM)UCF08 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 10:15 AM)miko33 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 10:05 AM)UCF08 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 09:28 AM)miko33 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:16 AM)Jugnaut Wrote: He's making the point that "election meddling" is minor and overblown and done by every country including the US. No votes were changed, Donald Trump is the lawful duly elected president of the United states. Media and DNC efforts to delegitimize his election will only backfire. And just to be clear, we've not been shown any evidence it has happened, only "assessments" or guesses from the Intel community that it happened and it was Russia. I've seen more actual evidence that it was a leak taken from a flash drive than a hack.
Take me for example, I didn't vote for him in the last election and was not inclined to vote for him the next time. However due to the blatant witch hunt against him, I find myself defending him. I will likely vote for him now due to the misconduct of the media and DNC in pushing this Russia narrative garbage. Additionally, his policy choices have turned out to be pleasantly surprising.
Thanks, good synopsis. IMHO, all of the outrage is designed to rev up their base for the November mid term elections. It's blatantly obvious.
You think the FBI investigation is all part of the DNC revving up their base? Sure, yeah, that makes sense.
I'm not talking about the FBI investigation. I'm talking about the faux outrage by the MSM and the Democrats. You saw Rod Rosenstein's press conference before Trump met with Putin, didn't you? Did you not hear that he stated that no American was found to have knowingly cooperated with Russian operatives to meddle with the election?
But you also heard Democrats howl at Trump's original words after he met with Putin, correct? You heard the accusations of Treason, correct?
So you’re calling the outrage faux, and when I mention on of the very real, tangible reasons for their outrage, you claim you’re not talking about that? I’m confused.
And yes, I heard their accusations of treason. I don’t find their reactions to be the surprising or even noticeable takeaway from that summit though.
What tangible reasons specifically? From what I've seen from news of the investigation, none of the actual elections were rigged for a specific outcome. No votes were changed by the Russians. The only things I heard were that both political parties were hacked, the DNC dirty laundry was aired (and interestingly none of it was denied to be true by the DNC) and Russian operatives spammed Twitter and Facebook with ads.
Last time I checked, neither the GOP nor the DNC were gov't entities. Sadly, many people equate them to extensions of the gov't. They are not. If anything, they are private entities - like corporations, charitable trusts and the like. We know that Obama and his team were well aware of the Russian meddling and did not do ONE FVCKING THING to prevent it. Unrelated to this - but IMHO it complements Obama's view on foreign interference in America - Obama did very little to counteract the Chinese from infiltrating U.S. corporations and stealing their IP. Eventually, he got around to it but I haven't seen Obama blast the sh!t out of China and do anything close to trying to elevate the situation to Cold War levels - like the Dems wanted Trump to do with Putin.
This is what I find interesting. Obama did dick to safeguard America from the Russian interference since it was reported that he KNEW what they were trying to do. He also did dick to stop the Chinese from hacking our companies and gov't agencies. He didn't do dick to stop Russia from invading the Ukraine. Funny enough, I didn't hear any Dem outrage over any of that when Obama was in office? To this day, has any Democrat pilloried Obama over doing dick when he KNEW the Russians were trying to meddle in our elections in 2016???
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
Of course they think Americans are stupid. Look at the arrogance of Hollywood. Hell, the arrogance of the left GOT Trump elected. The condescending, I know it all type attitude pushed the late deciding fence sitters over to Trump
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
(07-18-2018 10:05 AM)UCF08 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 09:28 AM)miko33 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:16 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote: So I guess we shouldnt care if it happens, we should ignore evidence that it happened, and not care when the POTUS takes the side of Putin over the thousands of Americans whose work comprised the intelligence he dismissed?
I’m not getting your point.
He's making the point that "election meddling" is minor and overblown and done by every country including the US. No votes were changed, Donald Trump is the lawful duly elected president of the United states. Media and DNC efforts to delegitimize his election will only backfire. And just to be clear, we've not been shown any evidence it has happened, only "assessments" or guesses from the Intel community that it happened and it was Russia. I've seen more actual evidence that it was a leak taken from a flash drive than a hack.
Take me for example, I didn't vote for him in the last election and was not inclined to vote for him the next time. However due to the blatant witch hunt against him, I find myself defending him. I will likely vote for him now due to the misconduct of the media and DNC in pushing this Russia narrative garbage. Additionally, his policy choices have turned out to be pleasantly surprising.
Thanks, good synopsis. IMHO, all of the outrage is designed to rev up their base for the November mid term elections. It's blatantly obvious.
You think the FBI investigation is all part of the DNC revving up their base? Sure, yeah, that makes sense.
Back putting words in peoples mouths again huh? Who, except you in an attempt to deflect, said a word about an FBI investigation?
RE: The News Media and Democrat Leadership thinks that Americans are stupid...
(07-18-2018 11:55 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:
(07-18-2018 10:05 AM)UCF08 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 09:28 AM)miko33 Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:16 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:
(07-18-2018 08:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote: So I guess we shouldnt care if it happens, we should ignore evidence that it happened, and not care when the POTUS takes the side of Putin over the thousands of Americans whose work comprised the intelligence he dismissed?
I’m not getting your point.
He's making the point that "election meddling" is minor and overblown and done by every country including the US. No votes were changed, Donald Trump is the lawful duly elected president of the United states. Media and DNC efforts to delegitimize his election will only backfire. And just to be clear, we've not been shown any evidence it has happened, only "assessments" or guesses from the Intel community that it happened and it was Russia. I've seen more actual evidence that it was a leak taken from a flash drive than a hack.
Take me for example, I didn't vote for him in the last election and was not inclined to vote for him the next time. However due to the blatant witch hunt against him, I find myself defending him. I will likely vote for him now due to the misconduct of the media and DNC in pushing this Russia narrative garbage. Additionally, his policy choices have turned out to be pleasantly surprising.
Thanks, good synopsis. IMHO, all of the outrage is designed to rev up their base for the November mid term elections. It's blatantly obvious.
You think the FBI investigation is all part of the DNC revving up their base? Sure, yeah, that makes sense.
Back putting words in peoples mouths again huh? Who, except you in an attempt to deflect, said a word about an FBI investigation?
Despite him only mentioning the media and the DNC, when it comes to “election meddling”, we’re discussing a very real FBI investigation which is driving that.