(06-28-2018 04:08 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 03:59 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 03:30 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  % subsidized by student fees + direct/indirect school funds + money from state
1. Coastal Carolina....83.82%
2. Georgia State....74.18%
3. Troy....72.46%
4. Texas State....72.28%
5. South Alabama....67.33%
6. App State....60.63%
7. Georgia Southern....57.96%
8. UL-Lafayette....45.19%
9. UL-Monroe....44.71%
10. Arkansas State....31.99%

didn't read the fine print. fixed it for ya.

Right but the majority of that is student fees. Of the 22M that Georgia State allocated, 19.2M of it was student fees.

Wasn’t UGA or someone in GA trying to limit how much a school can get from student fees.

(06-28-2018 05:56 PM)Golota76 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 04:08 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 03:59 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 03:30 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  % subsidized by student fees + direct/indirect school funds + money from state
1. Coastal Carolina....83.82%
2. Georgia State....74.18%
3. Troy....72.46%
4. Texas State....72.28%
5. South Alabama....67.33%
6. App State....60.63%
7. Georgia Southern....57.96%
8. UL-Lafayette....45.19%
9. UL-Monroe....44.71%
10. Arkansas State....31.99%

didn't read the fine print. fixed it for ya.

Right but the majority of that is student fees. Of the 22M that Georgia State allocated, 19.2M of it was student fees.

Wasn’t UGA or someone in GA trying to limit how much a school can get from student fees.

65% cap on student fees by next few years. We dont have problems with that. If anything, I'm sure accountants can fudge the numbers to increase general student fees to pad the athletics funds...(which is why I think it's silly to split hairs between school funds/student fees)

What REALLY grinds my gear is the new policy that schools cannot increase their athletic expenses by more than 5%....which doesn't affect P5 schools whatsoever, while attempting to slow down G5 athletics' growth.

(06-28-2018 05:49 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 04:34 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  Actually, any accountant here? isn't this basically splitting hairs?
1) school funds: school taking money from students, then handing it over to athletics
2) athletic fees: school's athletics taking money directly from students

It depends on the school and state. My understanding is Louisiana state schools can’t charge a separate student athletic fee and are limited in the amount they can transfer from the general fund (3%-9%?). VA is on the other end of the spectrum and can’t use school or state funds for athletics so all subsidized amounts will be coming from student fees.

I’m interested in the accounting going on at Ark St. Some large fluctuations the last few years in a couple of categories. Any Wolves can shed light on that?

that makes sense...

(06-28-2018 05:55 PM)RamblinRedWolf Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 05:49 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 04:34 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  Actually, any accountant here? isn't this basically splitting hairs?
1) school funds: school taking money from students, then handing it over to athletics
2) athletic fees: school's athletics taking money directly from students

It depends on the school and state. My understanding is Louisiana state schools can’t charge a separate student athletic fee and are limited in the amount they can transfer from the general fund (3%-9%?). VA is on the other end of the spectrum and can’t use school or state funds for athletics so all subsidized amounts will be coming from student fees.

I’m interested in the accounting going on at Ark St. Some large fluctuations the last few years in a couple of categories. Any Wolves can shed light on that?

Im sure Arkstfan will be able to elaborate much more thoroughly but a lot of it has to do with frequent facilities projects we’ve started and completed in the last few years (and from my understanding those numbers haven’t taken our North endzone project into account)

Capital project donations, outflows or depreciation shouldn’t be included in current year budgets, only current year debt obligations. VA seems to be one of the most transparent state as far as financial reporting. All the agreed upon procedures are performed by the state auditors office. Also they’ve posted the guidance from the NCAA on reporting guidelines for each category. USA Today has taken these reports and consolidated the categories into more general groupings.

Scroll down to see the chart on guidance from the NCAA. They made some changes a few years ago so the chart includes old and new regs.

http://www.apa.virginia.gov/reports/NCAA...02017.docx

Here’s ODUs financial statements so you can see the categories on our FS and with a little work you can see USA Today’s method.

http://www.apa.virginia.gov/reports/OldD...AA2017.pdf

Even with the guidance NCAA reporting still seems to be a bit of a “Wild West” of accounting. VA budgets are likely higher than schools from other states due to govt involvement. Little gets left out. There’s still some grey area about what’s an overhead expense of the school and what’s athletic expense. Schools no doubt have incentives for either including or omitting amounts in debate depending on if they want thier budget to appear bigger or smaller.

(06-28-2018 06:25 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 05:56 PM)Golota76 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 04:08 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 03:59 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 03:30 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  % subsidized by student fees + direct/indirect school funds + money from state
1. Coastal Carolina....83.82%
2. Georgia State....74.18%
3. Troy....72.46%
4. Texas State....72.28%
5. South Alabama....67.33%
6. App State....60.63%
7. Georgia Southern....57.96%
8. UL-Lafayette....45.19%
9. UL-Monroe....44.71%
10. Arkansas State....31.99%

didn't read the fine print. fixed it for ya.

Right but the majority of that is student fees. Of the 22M that Georgia State allocated, 19.2M of it was student fees.

Wasn’t UGA or someone in GA trying to limit how much a school can get from student fees.

65% cap on student fees by next few years. We dont have problems with that. If anything, I'm sure accountants can fudge the numbers to increase general student fees to pad the athletics funds...(which is why I think it's silly to split hairs between school funds/student fees)

What REALLY grinds my gear is the new policy that schools cannot increase their athletic expenses by more than 5%....which doesn't affect P5 schools whatsoever, while attempting to slow down G5 athletics' growth.

VA is 55% at the G5 level, I agree with you on growth that’s BS.

(06-28-2018 05:49 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 04:34 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  Actually, any accountant here? isn't this basically splitting hairs?
1) school funds: school taking money from students, then handing it over to athletics
2) athletic fees: school's athletics taking money directly from students

It depends on the school and state. My understanding is Louisiana state schools can’t charge a separate student athletic fee and are limited in the amount they can transfer from the general fund (3%-9%?). VA is on the other end of the spectrum and can’t use school or state funds for athletics so all subsidized amounts will be coming from student fees.

I’m interested in the accounting going on at Ark St. Some large fluctuations the last few years in a couple of categories. Any Wolves can shed light on that?

Some large gifts (as much as $5 million at a time) have caused spikes.

(06-28-2018 07:45 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 05:49 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 04:34 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  Actually, any accountant here? isn't this basically splitting hairs?
1) school funds: school taking money from students, then handing it over to athletics
2) athletic fees: school's athletics taking money directly from students

It depends on the school and state. My understanding is Louisiana state schools can’t charge a separate student athletic fee and are limited in the amount they can transfer from the general fund (3%-9%?). VA is on the other end of the spectrum and can’t use school or state funds for athletics so all subsidized amounts will be coming from student fees.

I’m interested in the accounting going on at Ark St. Some large fluctuations the last few years in a couple of categories. Any Wolves can shed light on that?

Some large gifts (as much as $5 million at a time) have caused spikes.

I read your blog post on the other link. It seems ark st is including contributions for capital campaigns.

(06-28-2018 03:30 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  % subsidized by student fees

1. Coastal Carolina....83.82%
2. Georgia State....74.18%
3. Troy....72.46%
4. Texas State....72.28%
5. South Alabama....67.33%
6. App State....60.63%
7. Georgia Southern....57.96%
8. UL-Lafayette....45.19%
9. UL-Monroe....44.71%
10. Arkansas State....31.99%

I’m assuming you mean direct institutional support. Because ULM nor Louisiana has student athletic fees. Both universities are allowed to use up to 3% of the universities General Fund to fund athletics. ULM nor Louisiana use close to the full 3% allowed.

(06-28-2018 08:18 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 03:30 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  % subsidized by student fees

1. Coastal Carolina....83.82%
2. Georgia State....74.18%
3. Troy....72.46%
4. Texas State....72.28%
5. South Alabama....67.33%
6. App State....60.63%
7. Georgia Southern....57.96%
8. UL-Lafayette....45.19%
9. UL-Monroe....44.71%
10. Arkansas State....31.99%

I’m assuming you mean direct institutional support. Because ULM nor Louisiana has student athletic fees. Both universities are allowed to use up to 3% of the universities General Fund to fund athletics. ULM nor Louisiana use close to the full 3% allowed.

I have no clue how the school money towards athletics works. Can you give me the dummy version and how far are you guys from the full amount the school can give?

(06-28-2018 05:49 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 04:34 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  Actually, any accountant here? isn't this basically splitting hairs?
1) school funds: school taking money from students, then handing it over to athletics
2) athletic fees: school's athletics taking money directly from students

It depends on the school and state. My understanding is Louisiana state schools can’t charge a separate student athletic fee and are limited in the amount they can transfer from the general fund (3%-9%?). VA is on the other end of the spectrum and can’t use school or state funds for athletics so all subsidized amounts will be coming from student fees.

I’m interested in the accounting going on at Ark St. Some large fluctuations the last few years in a couple of categories. Any Wolves can shed light on that?

Good lord, we do this every year about this time. The school should have to pay ArkStfan for having to explain it. Cue WKUYG with his Excel spreadsheets in 3...2...1...

The short answer...

(06-28-2018 07:51 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 07:45 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 05:49 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 04:34 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  Actually, any accountant here? isn't this basically splitting hairs?
1) school funds: school taking money from students, then handing it over to athletics
2) athletic fees: school's athletics taking money directly from students

It depends on the school and state. My understanding is Louisiana state schools can’t charge a separate student athletic fee and are limited in the amount they can transfer from the general fund (3%-9%?). VA is on the other end of the spectrum and can’t use school or state funds for athletics so all subsidized amounts will be coming from student fees.

I’m interested in the accounting going on at Ark St. Some large fluctuations the last few years in a couple of categories. Any Wolves can shed light on that?

Some large gifts (as much as $5 million at a time) have caused spikes.

I read your blog post on the other link. It seems ark st is including contributions for capital campaigns.

Have you troubled yourself to read the methodology (ie. the steps taken to standardize the reporting)?

Debt service for facilities construction is included in the expenses. If that is an expense then how do you account for how you PAID for the expense? The gift may be tagged for facilities but it is up to the school how they do that. The school can throw it in a bank account and hold it until the construction begins. They can put it in a bank account and use it as part of the declining fund to pay off the debt.

Not sure why you CUSA guys get so bent. The specific reporting period involved, Forget about the expense side of the balance sheet, AState had no major gifts the revenue is the revenue for the period.

Not like we are assessing the marching band cost as an athletic expense.

Over 70% student subsidized is pretty ugly

(06-28-2018 05:49 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 04:34 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  Actually, any accountant here? isn't this basically splitting hairs?
1) school funds: school taking money from students, then handing it over to athletics
2) athletic fees: school's athletics taking money directly from students

It depends on the school and state. My understanding is Louisiana state schools can’t charge a separate student athletic fee and are limited in the amount they can transfer from the general fund (3%-9%?). VA is on the other end of the spectrum and can’t use school or state funds for athletics so all subsidized amounts will be coming from student fees.

I’m interested in the accounting going on at Ark St. Some large fluctuations the last few years in a couple of categories. Any Wolves can shed light on that?

Louisiana schools are capped at 3% general fund transfer, which as another Cajun fan posted, neither ULM or Louisiana are close to maxing that out. Student fees are allowed, BUT they can only be assessed via a campus-wide student vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(06-29-2018 05:57 AM)CajunFan3406 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 05:49 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 04:34 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  Actually, any accountant here? isn't this basically splitting hairs?
1) school funds: school taking money from students, then handing it over to athletics
2) athletic fees: school's athletics taking money directly from students

It depends on the school and state. My understanding is Louisiana state schools can’t charge a separate student athletic fee and are limited in the amount they can transfer from the general fund (3%-9%?). VA is on the other end of the spectrum and can’t use school or state funds for athletics so all subsidized amounts will be coming from student fees.

I’m interested in the accounting going on at Ark St. Some large fluctuations the last few years in a couple of categories. Any Wolves can shed light on that?

Louisiana schools are capped at 3% general fund transfer, which as another Cajun fan posted, neither ULM or Louisiana are close to maxing that out. Student fees are allowed, BUT they can only be assessed via a campus-wide student vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have never been able to figure out the common core math they use here in Louisiana for these dang fees. I have looked at ULM's website at the fees and there is nothing listed for a specific athletic fee, just some general comments about fees. All I know is that using the numbers listed, ULM students pay about $35 a YEAR for athletics while ULL students pay around $26 a YEAR. That is truly sad, considering that gets them access to all athletic events. Hell, at ULM they pay more in a semester just to get a parking decal. But our campus security......my apologies, campus Police......have nice, shiny SUVs to ride around in and stay cool.

(06-28-2018 10:14 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 07:51 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 07:45 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 05:49 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 04:34 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  Actually, any accountant here? isn't this basically splitting hairs?
1) school funds: school taking money from students, then handing it over to athletics
2) athletic fees: school's athletics taking money directly from students

It depends on the school and state. My understanding is Louisiana state schools can’t charge a separate student athletic fee and are limited in the amount they can transfer from the general fund (3%-9%?). VA is on the other end of the spectrum and can’t use school or state funds for athletics so all subsidized amounts will be coming from student fees.

I’m interested in the accounting going on at Ark St. Some large fluctuations the last few years in a couple of categories. Any Wolves can shed light on that?

Some large gifts (as much as $5 million at a time) have caused spikes.

I read your blog post on the other link. It seems ark st is including contributions for capital campaigns.

Have you troubled yourself to read the methodology (ie. the steps taken to standardize the reporting)?

Debt service for facilities construction is included in the expenses. If that is an expense then how do you account for how you PAID for the expense? The gift may be tagged for facilities but it is up to the school how they do that. The school can throw it in a bank account and hold it until the construction begins. They can put it in a bank account and use it as part of the declining fund to pay off the debt.

Not sure why you CUSA guys get so bent. The specific reporting period involved, Forget about the expense side of the balance sheet, AState had no major gifts the revenue is the revenue for the period.

Not like we are assessing the marching band cost as an athletic expense.

Appendix A: Category 8 - Contributions

"Do not report:
• Pledges until funds are provided to athletics for use.
• Contributions to be used in other reporting years. "



Seems pretty straight forward to me. In the link I provided earlier the VA task force even asked the NCAA for clarification on a few items regarding contributions received and used in the same year for capital expenditures and were told that since there's no category for reporting capital expenditures then the amounts shouldn't be included in the revenue/expense reporting.


You have debt that is used to finance a capital project and your athletic foundation is paying the obligation from contributions received then that amount is included but not lump sums to be used in future years.


You write a blog post about how great A States finances are when anyone with any kind of experience looking at financial statements can see that there's some huge irregularities going on and then say I'm getting bent when I question it? I'm just interested in it from an academic stand point. As I mentioned earlier, regardless of the NCAA's attempts to standardize reporting schools still seem to be doing what's in their best interest. Everyone knows the NCAA has no teeth.


Oh and one more thing.


Appendix B : Expense Category 33 - Spirit Groups:

"Include support for spirit groups including bands, cheerleaders, mascots, dancers, etc."


http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/...180525.pdf

LOL. Here we go again.

Do any of you think that arguing about this really makes any difference? There will be no conference realignment any time soon and even if there was anyone looking would have accountants going over this stuff with a fine tooth comb before issuing an invitation to a school to join their conference.

(06-29-2018 07:58 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 10:14 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 07:51 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 07:45 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 05:49 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  It depends on the school and state. My understanding is Louisiana state schools can’t charge a separate student athletic fee and are limited in the amount they can transfer from the general fund (3%-9%?). VA is on the other end of the spectrum and can’t use school or state funds for athletics so all subsidized amounts will be coming from student fees.

I’m interested in the accounting going on at Ark St. Some large fluctuations the last few years in a couple of categories. Any Wolves can shed light on that?

Some large gifts (as much as $5 million at a time) have caused spikes.

I read your blog post on the other link. It seems ark st is including contributions for capital campaigns.

Have you troubled yourself to read the methodology (ie. the steps taken to standardize the reporting)?

Debt service for facilities construction is included in the expenses. If that is an expense then how do you account for how you PAID for the expense? The gift may be tagged for facilities but it is up to the school how they do that. The school can throw it in a bank account and hold it until the construction begins. They can put it in a bank account and use it as part of the declining fund to pay off the debt.

Not sure why you CUSA guys get so bent. The specific reporting period involved, Forget about the expense side of the balance sheet, AState had no major gifts the revenue is the revenue for the period.

Not like we are assessing the marching band cost as an athletic expense.

Appendix A: Category 8 - Contributions

"Do not report:
• Pledges until funds are provided to athletics for use.
• Contributions to be used in other reporting years. "

Uh so what's your problem if a school gets a check and uses it that same year?

Save you the trouble. Arkansas State making twice as much from Learfield than several CUSA schools who have signed with Learfield and AState having a waiting list for suites and premium seating causes distress for disrupting the CUSA narrative it that it is still a superior conference financially.

I mean hell look at the league revenue from television. The per team amounts have equalized and when it happened that Sun Belt signed a better TV deal than it had CUSA fans sniffed and moaned well Sun Belt has to produce some of the games (but not the linear games and Sun Belt added more linear games) but CUSA is paying to produce content for ESPN3, ESPN+ and CUSA TV that we are supposed to ignore requires CUSA to pay production for.

It shouldn't stun anyone that a Sun Belt team is doing well compared to CUSA (especially a Sun Belt that has 7 straight bowl seasons).

(06-29-2018 08:54 AM)sdcritter Wrote:  LOL. Here we go again.

Do any of you think that arguing about this really makes any difference? There will be no conference realignment any time soon and even if there was anyone looking would have accountants going over this stuff with a fine tooth comb before issuing an invitation to a school to join their conference.

When it threatens your self-worth it becomes important.

It isn't the patch on uniforms that matters is something some struggle with.

From a related USA Today article
The general strategy is that “more spending leads to more wins,” said David Berri, a sports economist and professor at Southern Utah. “No, it’s probably the other way around: If you win more, you’ll have more revenue and can spend more money. That’s why we end up with this.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc...736222002/

(06-28-2018 09:03 PM)Golota76 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 08:18 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 03:30 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  % subsidized by student fees

1. Coastal Carolina....83.82%
2. Georgia State....74.18%
3. Troy....72.46%
4. Texas State....72.28%
5. South Alabama....67.33%
6. App State....60.63%
7. Georgia Southern....57.96%
8. UL-Lafayette....45.19%
9. UL-Monroe....44.71%
10. Arkansas State....31.99%

I’m assuming you mean direct institutional support. Because ULM nor Louisiana has student athletic fees. Both universities are allowed to use up to 3% of the universities General Fund to fund athletics. ULM nor Louisiana use close to the full 3% allowed.

I have no clue how the school money towards athletics works. Can you give me the dummy version and how far are you guys from the full amount the school can give?

The last I saw of it, the Cajuns use about 1.5% instead of the full 3% and ULM uses roughly 1%. For the Cajuns I think the full 3% would be around $18M, I’m not sure what ULM would be at.

I do know that LaTurd uses the full 3% allowed by the state.

(06-29-2018 12:16 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 09:03 PM)Golota76 Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 08:18 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  

(06-28-2018 03:30 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  % subsidized by student fees

1. Coastal Carolina....83.82%
2. Georgia State....74.18%
3. Troy....72.46%
4. Texas State....72.28%
5. South Alabama....67.33%
6. App State....60.63%
7. Georgia Southern....57.96%
8. UL-Lafayette....45.19%
9. UL-Monroe....44.71%
10. Arkansas State....31.99%

I’m assuming you mean direct institutional support. Because ULM nor Louisiana has student athletic fees. Both universities are allowed to use up to 3% of the universities General Fund to fund athletics. ULM nor Louisiana use close to the full 3% allowed.

I have no clue how the school money towards athletics works. Can you give me the dummy version and how far are you guys from the full amount the school can give?

The last I saw of it, the Cajuns use about 1.5% instead of the full 3% and ULM uses roughly 1%. For the Cajuns I think the full 3% would be around $18M, I’m not sure what ULM would be at.

I do know that LaTurd uses the full 3% allowed by the state.

I think the Cajuns will be between 30-35 million when the 2017-2018 numbers come out.