(02-27-2018 06:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 05:53 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 05:49 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 05:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 05:14 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  I think a good way to start would be the ones in the federal assault weapons ban from the 90's.

Which in hindsight, had no material impact. Columbine occurred while it was in effect, as did a number of other mass shootings.

Okay, but how many did it prevent?

Based on the statistics, no reason to expect any.

Again, you cannot say this with ANY reasonable certainty. It's not like people would come forward and say they didn't shoot up their school because they couldn't get their desired assault weapon...lol

I can say with reasonable certainty that outlawing a weapon that kills 100 people a year cannot possibly reduce gun deaths by more than 100 per year. Math simply works that way. And out of 35,000, that's basically rounding error.

I think there's this huge belief that we kill thousands per year and we have "assault weapons" (whatever they are), and therefore those "assault weapons" kill thousands per year. They don't. The dots don't connect that way.

(02-27-2018 05:22 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 05:14 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 04:03 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Where's tigergreen, Marc Mensa, Old Dominion, etc.? They want an assault rifle ban.....then tell us what is and isn't an assault rifle.

I think a good way to start would be the ones in the federal assault weapons ban from the 90's.

Under the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, the definition of "semiautomatic assault weapon" included specific semi-automatic firearm models by name, and other semi-automatic firearms that possessed two or more from a set certain features:

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines AND two or more of the following:
-Folding or telescoping stock
-Pistol grip
-Bayonet mount
-Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
-Grenade launcher

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines AND two or more of the following:
-Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
-Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
-Barrel shroud safety feature that prevents burns to the operator
-Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
-A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
-Folding or telescoping stock
-Pistol grip
-Detachable magazine.

The ban defined the following semi-automatic firearms, as well as any copies or duplicates of them in any caliber, as assault weapons:

Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (AKs) (all models)
Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil
Beretta AR-70 (SC-70)
Colt AR-15
Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN-LAR, FNC
SWD (MAC type) M-10, M-11, M11/9, M12
Steyr AUG
INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22
Revolving cylinder shotguns such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12

Clearly technology has changed since then, so there are others that would either replace or be added to this list, but these were considered assault weapons back in 1994, so I dare say they should still be considered as such now.

Nice Christmas list for the board. Everyone should bookmark it.

Can I get a grenade launcher?

(02-27-2018 02:16 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  There are a lot of dangerous things on that firearm.

It's black
It's has a pistol grip
It's black

Racist

this isn't bad.... but there are some clear issues...

(02-27-2018 05:14 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines AND two or more of the following:
-Folding or telescoping stock
-Pistol grip
-Bayonet mount
-Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
-Grenade launcher

I'm sure grenade launchers are already banned, so I don't understand the point of saying 'designed to accommodate one' I thought knives were okay, so while I don't see the point in a bayonet mount, I also don't see the point in banning them.

Flash suppressors don't make guns easier to conceal or more effective... so seems like a lot of noise to accomplish little....

Quote:Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines AND two or more of the following:
-Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
-Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
-Barrel shroud safety feature that prevents burns to the operator
-Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
-A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

Yes... let's make sure that people using guns burn themselves....

The average 15in laptop weighs almost twice this. I'm just trying to understand why the bar is set 'here'. Why not at 2kg or 1 or 7?

So under these rules, I can have a light 50 cal semi-auto with a barrel extender and a detachable mag and be legal, and then fabricate a longer mag?

Why would this stop any shooter?

The 'long' mag is easily fabricated, even out of plastic.

Quote:Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
-Folding or telescoping stock
-Pistol grip
-Detachable magazine.

So this is the real point....

The ban is consistently on folding or telescoping stocks, pistol grips and detachable mags.... especially long ones.

I just don't think these are as clearly defined as it seems.

What exactly IS a 'pistol grip'... I know we all know what that looks like, but given how the 'sideways' method of holding is the rage, why wouldn't someone just amend a rifle grip? It's actually more natural. Hold your arm out like you have a pistol, now change your grip to a 'rifle'.

What if it's an adjustable stock, not a telescoping one? What would stop someone from building their own? How about something like those slingshot arm bars? and a screw point welded onto a pistol? We've already talked about mags.


Sum it up, I think we can probably come to some agreement on these items, but I honestly think it's a lot of noise without much real impact. I'm betting most of the left won't go with this either for the same reasons.

If the DEATH PENALTY for KILLING SOMEONE isn't a deterrent, then a fine for a custom extendable stock sure won't stop you.

It's the semi-automatic mechanics of ejecting and reloading that most recent legislation has tried to ban.

Quote:The ban defined the following semi-automatic firearms, as well as any copies or duplicates of them in any caliber, as assault weapons:

Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (AKs) (all models)
Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil
Beretta AR-70 (SC-70)
Colt AR-15
Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN-LAR, FNC
SWD (MAC type) M-10, M-11, M11/9, M12
Steyr AUG
INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22
Revolving cylinder shotguns such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12

Going by name/model is a bad idea. Only keeps lawyers, marketers and politicians in business. So is the 'copies or duplicates'. If they are copies or duplicates, then it is a patent infringement.

It's a bit like trying to ban liquor, but allow beer and wine because of their lower alcohol content....

why wouldn't people just make their own? And how would you collect the 300+mm 'cases' of liquor already out there?

Break in my house in the middle of the night and I'll tickle you til you pee your pants.

(02-27-2018 05:14 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 04:03 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Where's tigergreen, Marc Mensa, Old Dominion, etc.? They want an assault rifle ban.....then tell us what is and isn't an assault rifle.

I think a good way to start would be the ones in the federal assault weapons ban from the 90's.

Under the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, the definition of "semiautomatic assault weapon" included specific semi-automatic firearm models by name, and other semi-automatic firearms that possessed two or more from a set certain features:

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines AND two or more of the following:
-Folding or telescoping stock
-Pistol grip
-Bayonet mount
-Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
-Grenade launcher

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines AND two or more of the following:
-Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
-Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
-Barrel shroud safety feature that prevents burns to the operator
-Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
-A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
-Folding or telescoping stock
-Pistol grip
-Detachable magazine.

The ban defined the following semi-automatic firearms, as well as any copies or duplicates of them in any caliber, as assault weapons:

Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (AKs) (all models)
Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil
Beretta AR-70 (SC-70)
Colt AR-15
Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN-LAR, FNC
SWD (MAC type) M-10, M-11, M11/9, M12
Steyr AUG
INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22
Revolving cylinder shotguns such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12

Clearly technology has changed since then, so there are others that would either replace or be added to this list, but these were considered assault weapons back in 1994, so I dare say they should still be considered as such now.

I do wonder this, though...

If the real intent of the 2nd Amendment for some crazy reason comes into play, wouldn't all of those weapons be beneficial?

"Real intent" per the Bill of Rights:

Quote:THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution

(02-27-2018 05:49 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 05:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 05:14 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 04:03 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Where's tigergreen, Marc Mensa, Old Dominion, etc.? They want an assault rifle ban.....then tell us what is and isn't an assault rifle.

I think a good way to start would be the ones in the federal assault weapons ban from the 90's.

Which in hindsight, had no material impact. Columbine occurred while it was in effect, as did a number of other mass shootings.

Okay, but how many did it prevent?

How many home invasions, murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, and SCHOOL SHOOTINGS has firearms prevented?

Whether it was the original intent of the founding fathers or not (and there is plenty of evidence that it was), I'm totally supportive of the 2nd Amendment as a potential check on tyrannical power. To those who say an armed populace cannot stand against an army, it seems to be working pretty well in Afghanistan.

(02-27-2018 06:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 05:53 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 05:49 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 05:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 05:14 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  I think a good way to start would be the ones in the federal assault weapons ban from the 90's.

Which in hindsight, had no material impact. Columbine occurred while it was in effect, as did a number of other mass shootings.

Okay, but how many did it prevent?

Based on the statistics, no reason to expect any.

Again, you cannot say this with ANY reasonable certainty. It's not like people would come forward and say they didn't shoot up their school because they couldn't get their desired assault weapon...lol

Wow! You stumbled into destroying your own argument.

Someone ought to get them concrete nail guns off Loews shelves. Or at least make carpenters pass a background check and wait a couple of weeks.

(02-27-2018 06:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Whether it was the original intent of the founding fathers or not (and there is plenty of evidence that it was), I'm totally supportive of the 2nd Amendment as a potential check on tyrannical power. To those who say an armed populace cannot stand against an army, it seems to be working pretty well in Afghanistan.

Hell, recent trivial armed resistance in Baltimore, NYC, and Ferguson has resulted in a local near collapse of order because the police are not equipped or trained for even loosely organized urban warfare.

(02-27-2018 06:25 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Break in my house in the middle of the night and I'll tickle you til you pee your pants.

You better watch out. You don’t know what you will attract. Maybe Shepherd Smith lives near you. Just sayin....

(02-27-2018 06:39 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 06:25 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Break in my house in the middle of the night and I'll tickle you til you pee your pants.

You better watch out. You don’t know what you will attract. Maybe Shepherd Smith lives near you. Just sayin....

He may need a laugh.

(02-27-2018 01:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  What makes an assault rifle different from other rifles?

Anything that can fire more than 6 rounds in a minute. Lets just define it that way.

If you need more than that to hunt, you're no better than a douche that hunts in a stocked field anyway.

(02-27-2018 08:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 01:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  What makes an assault rifle different from other rifles?

Anything that can fire more than 6 rounds in a minute. Lets just define it that way.

If you need more than that to hunt, you're no better than a douche that hunts in a stocked field anyway.

No

(02-27-2018 08:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 01:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  What makes an assault rifle different from other rifles?

Anything that can fire more than 6 rounds in a minute. Lets just define it that way.

If you need more than that to hunt, you're no better than a douche that hunts in a stocked field anyway.

Name a firearms you can't fire more than 6 rounds per minute.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using CSNbbs mobile app

If you cycle just right you can do it with a 12 gauge pump.

(02-27-2018 08:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 01:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  What makes an assault rifle different from other rifles?

Anything that can fire more than 6 rounds in a minute. Lets just define it that way.

If you need more than that to hunt, you're no better than a douche that hunts in a stocked field anyway.

Are you describing a gay sex movie video?

(02-27-2018 09:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  If you cycle just right you can do it with a 12 gauge pump.

****, I can get a dozen shots on target in under a minute with a pump

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using CSNbbs mobile app

(02-27-2018 08:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 01:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  What makes an assault rifle different from other rifles?

Anything that can fire more than 6 rounds in a minute. Lets just define it that way.

If you need more than that to hunt, you're no better than a douche that hunts in a stocked field anyway.

LOL WTF, bolt guns from the 19th century are now "assault rifles"?