A pattern Maker makes a pattern to be used in painting symbols in a large Parking lot. One pattern with many workers. How can the pattern Maker tell if his workers used the pattern provided , to complete the job in this parking lot? How could on lookers tell if the workers used the pattern provided by the Pattern Maker.

(02-22-2018 08:55 AM)talltrain Wrote:  A pattern Maker makes a pattern to be used in painting symbols in a large Parking lot. One pattern with many workers. How can the pattern Maker tell if his workers used the pattern provided , to complete the job in this parking lot? How could on lookers tell if the workers used the pattern provided by the Pattern Maker.

was the req't to stay within the pattern, or was choice an option?

A man establishes a fine business where people come to to purchase a quality product. This man trains his workers to adhere to strict standards in making this product allowing no impurities. He warns his Faithful and well Trained workers of the dangers of the smallest impurity allowed into the manufacturing of this valuable product. What happens when this man and his workers retire and the company is taken over by shady new owners ?

(02-22-2018 09:07 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:55 AM)talltrain Wrote:  A pattern Maker makes a pattern to be used in painting symbols in a large Parking lot. One pattern with many workers. How can the pattern Maker tell if his workers used the pattern provided , to complete the job in this parking lot? How could on lookers tell if the workers used the pattern provided by the Pattern Maker.

was the req't to stay within the pattern, or was choice an option?

What is the purpose of a pattern?

(02-22-2018 09:14 AM)talltrain Wrote:  A man establishes a fine business that where people come to to purchase a quality product. This man trains his workers to adhere to strict standards in making this product allowing no impurities. He warns his Faithful and well Trained workers of the dangers of the smallest impurity allowed into the manufacturing of this valuable product. What happens when this man and his workers retire and the company is taken over by shady new owners ?

they find another job or create a better business model...,.,.

#whomovedmycheese

(02-22-2018 09:17 AM)talltrain Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 09:07 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:55 AM)talltrain Wrote:  A pattern Maker makes a pattern to be used in painting symbols in a large Parking lot. One pattern with many workers. How can the pattern Maker tell if his workers used the pattern provided , to complete the job in this parking lot? How could on lookers tell if the workers used the pattern provided by the Pattern Maker.

was the req't to stay within the pattern, or was choice an option?

What is the purpose of a pattern?

a PE AND EE both basically taught me in summary, "all engineering is nothing more than applied common sense as time passes....it's how they adapt moving forward is what matters in the end"

that always made sense relative to the 'spectra of time'

#benchmarkprogression

(02-22-2018 07:25 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Matt 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.


Although the Bible does not specifically say there are different levels of punishment in hell, it does seem to indicate that the judgment will indeed be experienced differently for different people. In Revelation 20:11–15, the people are judged “according to what they had done as recorded in the books” (Revelation 20:12). All the people at this judgment, though, are thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:13–15). So, perhaps, the purpose of the judgment is to determine how severe the punishment will be.

A clearer passage is Luke 10, where Jesus speaks of comparative punishment. First, Jesus says this about a village that rejects the gospel: “I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town” (verse 12). Then He speaks to Bethsaida and Chorazin: “It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you” (verse 14). Whatever punishment the former residents of Sodom, Tyre, and Sidon were experiencing in hell, the Galilean towns that refused to hear Christ would experience more. The level of punishment in hell seems to be tied to the amount of light a person rejects.

Another indication that hell has different levels of punishment is found in Jesus’ words in Luke 12: “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked” (verses 47–48).

Whatever degrees of punishment hell contains, it is clear that hell is a place to be avoided.

So, what if you're a child born in the Middle East and are brought up as a Muslim, and are taught to be a martyr by blowing up civilians? Then you get to the Pearly Gates and are judged by a God using completely different criteria. Based on your upbringing, which you had no choice in, you would be totally screwed.

(02-22-2018 11:00 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:25 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Matt 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.


Although the Bible does not specifically say there are different levels of punishment in hell, it does seem to indicate that the judgment will indeed be experienced differently for different people. In Revelation 20:11–15, the people are judged “according to what they had done as recorded in the books” (Revelation 20:12). All the people at this judgment, though, are thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:13–15). So, perhaps, the purpose of the judgment is to determine how severe the punishment will be.

A clearer passage is Luke 10, where Jesus speaks of comparative punishment. First, Jesus says this about a village that rejects the gospel: “I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town” (verse 12). Then He speaks to Bethsaida and Chorazin: “It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you” (verse 14). Whatever punishment the former residents of Sodom, Tyre, and Sidon were experiencing in hell, the Galilean towns that refused to hear Christ would experience more. The level of punishment in hell seems to be tied to the amount of light a person rejects.

Another indication that hell has different levels of punishment is found in Jesus’ words in Luke 12: “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked” (verses 47–48).

Whatever degrees of punishment hell contains, it is clear that hell is a place to be avoided.

So, what if you're a child born in the Middle East and are brought up as a Muslim, and are taught to be a martyr by blowing up civilians? Then you get to the Pearly Gates and are judged by a God using completely different criteria. Based on your upbringing, which you had no choice in, you would be totally screwed.

Here is an answer that is consistent with what the Bible teaches and not rooted in the teachings brought into so called Christianity from the Roman and Greek Pagan Religions. The thought in the following Scripture show that the Penalty for sin is Death. Rom. 5:12, 6:23 ,Gen. 3:1,9 . People go back to the place they were before they were conceived. All humans rightfully fall in the category as sinners, no matter what they do, because of inheriting this Mark from Adam. (The Mark of being imperfect) This includes a new born , or an old man with vast life experience. The Loving thing is that God provided a way out of this condition that all humans find themselves in. John 3:16. God even provides a means for all to come to an accurate knowledge of Him by which to learn of his provision for life. Matt. 24:14, Matt. 28: 19, 20. There is much to learn of this Loving arrangement that Churches just don't publicize due to their misapplication of God's word. These Truths are what was taught by Early Christians prior to the influence brought on by Pagan Leaders as mentioned above. So a person is judged on how they respond to the God News of the Christ. All who do not get a chance to hear this message will be given a chance due to the resurrection Powers that Jesus demonstrated. Judgement is a sure thing. But a Judgement within the bounds God sets for himself. 1 John 4:8.

What human could stand over a literal fire and roast a living , feeling human for a week. Why do some humans think that a loving God could roast a living human for all eternity? A God who consistently shows his Love for humans. Ecc 9:4,5. Principles like these help right hearted, humble ones , to understand the True nature of God as described by his Son Jesus Christ.

So that Muslim kid has an opportunity, like all humans who hear of the Good News of Christ.

A loving Christian Women raises her Son to Maturity. This Son becomes a Bank robber, rapist, bigot, noted murder of small girls below the age of 9. Because of this, he is sentenced to death by lethal injection. These drugs do not kill this murder in a timely way ,so his twisting and convulsions go on for 1 hour 25 min. The Loving, Christian, mother, passes out at seeing here Son in these conditions and is hospitalized for days then dies.

How much peace will this women have ,in heaven, if she has to watch and hear Son burn forever as taught by Pagan Christianity?

Why does everyone have a different interpretation of the bible, if there is no interpretation involved?

Also, I don't get why we still have sin from Adam if Jesus died for our sins.

Before the printing press most people couldn't read and didn't have access to Biblical writings.

Doing so is not a requirement for salvation.

(02-22-2018 04:48 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Why does everyone have a different interpretation of the bible, if there is no interpretation involved?

Also, I don't get why we still have sin from Adam if Jesus died for our sins.

The wording at John 3:16 will help you to answer your question. Let’s see if you can ascertain the answer.

(02-22-2018 05:00 PM)Claw Wrote:  Before the printing press most people couldn't read and didn't have access to Biblical writings.

Doing so is not a requirement for salvation.

How did you arrive at this view point? Maybe some research would show you how info was shared before mass production made possible by the printing press. Accurate info helps individuals arrive at the correct view point.

(02-22-2018 05:29 PM)talltrain Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 05:00 PM)Claw Wrote:  Before the printing press most people couldn't read and didn't have access to Biblical writings.

Doing so is not a requirement for salvation.

How did you arrive at this view point? Maybe some research would show you how info was shared before mass production made possible by the printing press. Accurate info helps individuals arrive at the correct view point.

I am open to correction. I know in Britain ownership of a Bible was prohibited well after the printing press. So I don't think reading it was that common.

(02-22-2018 05:43 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 05:29 PM)talltrain Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 05:00 PM)Claw Wrote:  Before the printing press most people couldn't read and didn't have access to Biblical writings.

Doing so is not a requirement for salvation.

How did you arrive at this view point? Maybe some research would show you how info was shared before mass production made possible by the printing press. Accurate info helps individuals arrive at the correct view point.

I am open to correction. I know in Britain ownership of a Bible was prohibited well after the printing press. So I don't think reading it was that common.

There have been efforts to keep the Bible from being read. Usually these efforts backfired on humans who tried to impose such restrictions. The result being , the Bible being available to even more people .
Another way that the Bible’s message was made available to the Masses is thru sharing copies, word of mouth, being publicly read aloud in Synagogues. So humans had these writings available if they so desired. Threat of death did not completely stop it’s availability. Reasearch these points for yourself to see if they are true.

(02-22-2018 11:00 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:25 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Matt 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.


Although the Bible does not specifically say there are different levels of punishment in hell, it does seem to indicate that the judgment will indeed be experienced differently for different people. In Revelation 20:11–15, the people are judged “according to what they had done as recorded in the books” (Revelation 20:12). All the people at this judgment, though, are thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:13–15). So, perhaps, the purpose of the judgment is to determine how severe the punishment will be.

A clearer passage is Luke 10, where Jesus speaks of comparative punishment. First, Jesus says this about a village that rejects the gospel: “I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town” (verse 12). Then He speaks to Bethsaida and Chorazin: “It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you” (verse 14). Whatever punishment the former residents of Sodom, Tyre, and Sidon were experiencing in hell, the Galilean towns that refused to hear Christ would experience more. The level of punishment in hell seems to be tied to the amount of light a person rejects.

Another indication that hell has different levels of punishment is found in Jesus’ words in Luke 12: “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked” (verses 47–48).

Whatever degrees of punishment hell contains, it is clear that hell is a place to be avoided.

So, what if you're a child born in the Middle East and are brought up as a Muslim, and are taught to be a martyr by blowing up civilians? Then you get to the Pearly Gates and are judged by a God using completely different criteria. Based on your upbringing, which you had no choice in, you would be totally screwed.

If all Muslims are screwed, why are there so many underground Christian churches in Muslim countries? Why do virtually all Muslims know who Jesus is and that the NT teaches He died for all our sins?

BTW- Never hearing the gospel does not automatically send you to hell. God has revealed Himself sufficiently to every person on this earth.


Romans 1:19-21
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

(02-22-2018 04:48 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Why does everyone have a different interpretation of the bible, if there is no interpretation involved?

Also, I don't get why we still have sin from Adam if Jesus died for our sins.

I think you know this is a very childish question.

Everyone isn't automatically forgiven just because Jesus died on the cross, you are forgiven because you have accepted Christ as your Savior with ALL your heart and put your TOTAL faith in Him.

(02-22-2018 05:00 PM)Claw Wrote:  Before the printing press most people couldn't read and didn't have access to Biblical writings.

Doing so is not a requirement for salvation.

Sorry, but you won't be able to hide behind that excuse. You live in a culture and time where the Word of God was more available to you than any time in the history of the world.

"To whom much is given, much will be expected"

(02-22-2018 07:47 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 04:48 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Why does everyone have a different interpretation of the bible, if there is no interpretation involved?

Also, I don't get why we still have sin from Adam if Jesus died for our sins.

I think you know this is a very childish question.

Everyone isn't automatically forgiven just because Jesus died on the cross, you are forgiven because you have accepted Christ as your Savior.

Ah yes, the ultimate manipulation. The creative energy of this universe and everything beyond could care less if you are a Christian or not. All creatures human or other wise are created as a mirror of the creator.
Remember, we were not born with original sin, that's a human concept. We were born with original grace. Jesus died and was resurrected not to pay a blood debt, but to prove to humans there is no real death.

(02-22-2018 07:53 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:47 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 04:48 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Why does everyone have a different interpretation of the bible, if there is no interpretation involved?

Also, I don't get why we still have sin from Adam if Jesus died for our sins.

I think you know this is a very childish question.

Everyone isn't automatically forgiven just because Jesus died on the cross, you are forgiven because you have accepted Christ as your Savior.

Ah yes, the ultimate manipulation. The creative energy of this universe and everything beyond could care less if you are a Christian or not. All creatures human or other wise are created as a mirror of the creator.
Remember, we were not born with original sin, that's a human concept. We were born with original grace. Jesus died and was resurrected not to pay a blood debt, but to prove to humans there is no real death.

As has been shown to you many times now, We are SAVED/REDEEMED/ JUSTIFIED specifically by the blood of Christ. The NT says this word for word over and over and over again. If you had actually read the NT, you would have known this already.

Do I really need to post all those verses AGAIN?

The issue is not being born with original sin, the issue is every person walking the planet has sinned.

You don't repent of Adam and Eve's sin, you repent of YOUR OWN SINS