(02-20-2018 07:40 PM)Wedge Wrote: (02-20-2018 07:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote: If you have to take those banners down and send the trophy back, then it really didn't happen.
UL understands that, which is why they would have been glad to give up a bunch of scholarships going forward and suffer a ban on upcoming tournaments to keep their banner and trophy.
No. 90+ percent of the title's value to the team and the university - goodwill, recruiting, increased contributions from donors - is in the first 5 years after a title is won. Louisville already got that 90 percent.
Louisville did not offer to give up even more scholarships and an even longer postseason ban in order to keep their banner hanging in their arena. No sanctioned program has ever offered to sit out 2 or 3 more postseasons, in addition to the ban already imposed, and/or play hoops for a few years with only 5 scholarship players, in order to keep a banner, and none ever will.
The value in vacating wins or titles 5 years after the fact lies mostly in pleasing the people who want to see a school or coach punished.
But ... UL did offer to give up scholarships and restrict its recruiting, they did self- impose a post-season ban in 2015-2016, (and that's not uncommon, many football programs have implemented self-imposed post-season bans to avoid other sanctions). They self-imposed all those forward-looking things that you say matter most.
UL did not offer to vacate its 2012 F4 or 2013 national title, and the reason is obvious: scholarships and recruiting and post-seasons in the future are only valuable because they might lead to accomplishments like conference titles, F4s, and national titles. The 2013 title was a bird in the hand, the scholarships and recruiting were birds in the bush.
The real damage here is: UL now has 2 national titles, not 3. They have 8 Final 4s, not 10. Since F4s and national titles are basically what define the historical legacy of a basketball program, their standing among the Kansas's and Kentucky's and Duke's has fallen. And that stature is what is most important to Louisville, as it is to any national power. That's what matters most, not the other stuff.
Money and goodwill and recruits come naturally to a national power like Louisville. Their YUM Center would have been filled up the last 5 years with or without the title. I'm not saying those things aren't important, they are, which is why the punishments also do include losses of schollies, recruiting restrictions, and a lot of money being returned. UL got hit with that, too. But the title? That's the coveted, ultimate prize, and it's now gone.
And that's why UL is so upset. It's also why the title is the focus of the media. Look at today's headlines about it - they all say "UofL stripped of 2013 title". None of them say "UL probation and recruiting and scholarship losses upheld". Because everyone knows what the Real Punishment is, the loss of the title.