(12-28-2017 12:37 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 11:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So answer me three simple questions:
1) If the bad mortgages had never gotten into the system, what difference would it have made what Wall Street did?
2) Once the bad mortgages were into the system, how could the system have been saved?
3) Why did the bad mortgages get into the system in the first place? I mean, loaning money to someone who cannot repay you is not exactly a way to get rich. So there must have been some artificiality in the lending system that incentivized behavior that otherwise made no sense. What was that artificiality?

Wall Street created a secondary market, outside of the traditional GSE's, that led to the proliferation of fly by night mortgage brokers. They had billions in foreign dollars looking for safe investment in the US housing market. Quite frankly, they had more money than credit worthy borrowers, yet they were able to slice and dice the paper and hide the risky debt into MBS. The credit rating agencies were strong armed into grading the crappy paper as A or B and people kept flooding in the money... until the inevitable happened.
Yes, Fannie and Freddie eventually joined in... but they were late to the game. Government backed loans took too long and required too many steps. Wall Street, on the other hand, was giving the money away and people were taking it. It all sounds crazy now, but everyone in this country was taking advantage. It was the ponzi scheme to end all ponzi schemes.

Was that supposed to be an answer to one of my questions? If so, which one? And what about the others?

And you may have described correctly what happened in the secondary market (or may not have). But you don't have a secondary market without first having a primary market. And what happened in the primary market?

(12-28-2017 12:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 12:37 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 11:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So answer me three simple questions:
1) If the bad mortgages had never gotten into the system, what difference would it have made what Wall Street did?
2) Once the bad mortgages were into the system, how could the system have been saved?
3) Why did the bad mortgages get into the system in the first place? I mean, loaning money to someone who cannot repay you is not exactly a way to get rich. So there must have been some artificiality in the lending system that incentivized behavior that otherwise made no sense. What was that artificiality?

Wall Street created a secondary market, outside of the traditional GSE's, that led to the proliferation of fly by night mortgage brokers. They had billions in foreign dollars looking for safe investment in the US housing market. Quite frankly, they had more money than credit worthy borrowers, yet they were able to slice and dice the paper and hide the risky debt into MBS. The credit rating agencies were strong armed into grading the crappy paper as A or B and people kept flooding in the money... until the inevitable happened.
Yes, Fannie and Freddie eventually joined in... but they were late to the game. Government backed loans took too long and required too many steps. Wall Street, on the other hand, was giving the money away and people were taking it. It all sounds crazy now, but everyone in this country was taking advantage. It was the ponzi scheme to end all ponzi schemes.

Was that supposed to be an answer to one of my questions? If so, which one? And what about the others?

And you may have described correctly what happened in the secondary market (or may not have). But you don't have a secondary market without first having a primary market. And what happened in the primary market?

oh, yes you do... particularly if there is 70 trillion dollars in foreign capital looking for potential investment in the US housing market

(12-28-2017 01:08 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 12:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 12:37 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 11:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So answer me three simple questions:
1) If the bad mortgages had never gotten into the system, what difference would it have made what Wall Street did?
2) Once the bad mortgages were into the system, how could the system have been saved?
3) Why did the bad mortgages get into the system in the first place? I mean, loaning money to someone who cannot repay you is not exactly a way to get rich. So there must have been some artificiality in the lending system that incentivized behavior that otherwise made no sense. What was that artificiality?

Wall Street created a secondary market, outside of the traditional GSE's, that led to the proliferation of fly by night mortgage brokers. They had billions in foreign dollars looking for safe investment in the US housing market. Quite frankly, they had more money than credit worthy borrowers, yet they were able to slice and dice the paper and hide the risky debt into MBS. The credit rating agencies were strong armed into grading the crappy paper as A or B and people kept flooding in the money... until the inevitable happened.
Yes, Fannie and Freddie eventually joined in... but they were late to the game. Government backed loans took too long and required too many steps. Wall Street, on the other hand, was giving the money away and people were taking it. It all sounds crazy now, but everyone in this country was taking advantage. It was the ponzi scheme to end all ponzi schemes.

Was that supposed to be an answer to one of my questions? If so, which one? And what about the others?

And you may have described correctly what happened in the secondary market (or may not have). But you don't have a secondary market without first having a primary market. And what happened in the primary market?

oh, yes you do... particularly if there is 70 trillion dollars in foreign capital looking for potential investment in the US housing market

So why did all that money go into MBS's? Why not real property?

And what is you timing on this? What happened first, second, and so forth, and when?

(12-28-2017 02:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 01:08 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 12:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 12:37 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 11:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So answer me three simple questions:
1) If the bad mortgages had never gotten into the system, what difference would it have made what Wall Street did?
2) Once the bad mortgages were into the system, how could the system have been saved?
3) Why did the bad mortgages get into the system in the first place? I mean, loaning money to someone who cannot repay you is not exactly a way to get rich. So there must have been some artificiality in the lending system that incentivized behavior that otherwise made no sense. What was that artificiality?

Wall Street created a secondary market, outside of the traditional GSE's, that led to the proliferation of fly by night mortgage brokers. They had billions in foreign dollars looking for safe investment in the US housing market. Quite frankly, they had more money than credit worthy borrowers, yet they were able to slice and dice the paper and hide the risky debt into MBS. The credit rating agencies were strong armed into grading the crappy paper as A or B and people kept flooding in the money... until the inevitable happened.
Yes, Fannie and Freddie eventually joined in... but they were late to the game. Government backed loans took too long and required too many steps. Wall Street, on the other hand, was giving the money away and people were taking it. It all sounds crazy now, but everyone in this country was taking advantage. It was the ponzi scheme to end all ponzi schemes.

Was that supposed to be an answer to one of my questions? If so, which one? And what about the others?

And you may have described correctly what happened in the secondary market (or may not have). But you don't have a secondary market without first having a primary market. And what happened in the primary market?

oh, yes you do... particularly if there is 70 trillion dollars in foreign capital looking for potential investment in the US housing market

So why did all that money go into MBS's? Why not real property?

And what is you timing on this? What happened first, second, and so forth, and when?

less risk

(12-28-2017 02:10 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 02:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 01:08 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 12:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Was that supposed to be an answer to one of my questions? If so, which one? And what about the others?
And you may have described correctly what happened in the secondary market (or may not have). But you don't have a secondary market without first having a primary market. And what happened in the primary market?

oh, yes you do... particularly if there is 70 trillion dollars in foreign capital looking for potential investment in the US housing market

So why did all that money go into MBS's? Why not real property?
And what is you timing on this? What happened first, second, and so forth, and when?

less risk

So what was the timing on this? What happened first, the bad loans or the foreign money? And when did each happen?

And by the way, are you going to answer the questions I asked?

(12-28-2017 02:12 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 02:10 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 02:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 01:08 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(12-28-2017 12:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Was that supposed to be an answer to one of my questions? If so, which one? And what about the others?
And you may have described correctly what happened in the secondary market (or may not have). But you don't have a secondary market without first having a primary market. And what happened in the primary market?

oh, yes you do... particularly if there is 70 trillion dollars in foreign capital looking for potential investment in the US housing market

So why did all that money go into MBS's? Why not real property?
And what is you timing on this? What happened first, second, and so forth, and when?

less risk

So what was the timing on this? What happened first, the bad loans or the foreign money? And when did each happen?

And by the way, are you going to answer the questions I asked?

Foreign capital 1st
Bad loans 2nd

most bad loans originated from 2004-2006