The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(12-05-2017 03:24 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 01:46 PM)GullLake Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 12:00 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 11:53 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 11:32 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  So any coach who doesn’t go 13-0 is a return to Cubit? Is that the 9-4, 9-4, 7-4 Cubit, or just the 4-8 Cubit? And Cubit couldn’t recruit???? Biggers, Demas, Scheffler, Hiller, Beavers, Carder, Terrell, Currie, Zamora, Celiscar, Moten. Nope, couldn’t recruit

Peej’s #1 classes were sketchy. He lost 34 recruits before the end of their first season.

How many MAC Championships did Cubit win?

How many MAC Championship Games did Cubit lead WMU to?

What was Cubit's record against Central Michigan?

Under Bill Cubit WMU = We're Mediocre University.

Gotta compete for championships and beat your rival for survival.

Results matter.

It’s the MAC not the SEC. since going to two divisions only two teams haven’t played for a MAC Championship. It’s a parity league. You’re way to hung up on hardware. There is no BAMA or OSU in the MAC.

Never said there was.

When your coach loses 5-in-a-row to your arch-rival, and never gets within a sniff of the MAC Championship Game, you know you have a significant problem. It is not a "hardware" issue, it is a competence issue.

I never said WMU had to WIN the MAC Championship annually, but be in contention for it and beat CMU.

Results matter.

Cubit won his last two vs his rival, and his teams weren’t good. That 5 in a row was during the pinnacle of Chimp football, and even then all but 1 of those went to the wire.

All but one? 2006 and 2009 were both blow-outs.

Regardless, a loss is a loss wire or not. 1 point is no different than 40. It's still an "L."

That 5-in-a-row was inexcusable given the talent Cubit had. Kelly and Jones out-coached him. Kelly did it twice in one season with two different teams!!

Fortunately, for WMU, CMU hired Dan Enos allowing Cubit to finally beat the Chippewas and Fleck to out-recruit, and dominate them.

Let the Lester program play out and let's see what happens.

At the end of the day, if you hitch your happiness wagon to the winning prospects of a bunch of 18-20 year old athletes you're going to be disappointed as often as you're pleased. With the exception of 4-5 top programs who are probably breaking the rules in a dozen different ways, the mass of college football programs are hit or miss winners.

(12-05-2017 12:00 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 11:53 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 11:32 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  So any coach who doesn’t go 13-0 is a return to Cubit? Is that the 9-4, 9-4, 7-4 Cubit, or just the 4-8 Cubit? And Cubit couldn’t recruit???? Biggers, Demas, Scheffler, Hiller, Beavers, Carder, Terrell, Currie, Zamora, Celiscar, Moten. Nope, couldn’t recruit

Peej’s #1 classes were sketchy. He lost 34 recruits before the end of their first season.

How many MAC Championships did Cubit win?

How many MAC Championship Games did Cubit lead WMU to?

What was Cubit's record against Central Michigan?

Under Bill Cubit WMU = We're Mediocre University.

Gotta compete for championships and beat your rival for survival.

Results matter.

It’s the MAC not the SEC. since going to two divisions only two teams haven’t played for a MAC Championship. It’s a parity league. You’re way to hung up on hardware. There is no BAMA or OSU in the MAC.

Dip getting on other posters about being “hung up” on stuff...



Can’t make this stuff up, folks.

(12-10-2017 12:15 PM)ejd_5277 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 12:00 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 11:53 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 11:32 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  So any coach who doesn’t go 13-0 is a return to Cubit? Is that the 9-4, 9-4, 7-4 Cubit, or just the 4-8 Cubit? And Cubit couldn’t recruit???? Biggers, Demas, Scheffler, Hiller, Beavers, Carder, Terrell, Currie, Zamora, Celiscar, Moten. Nope, couldn’t recruit

Peej’s #1 classes were sketchy. He lost 34 recruits before the end of their first season.

How many MAC Championships did Cubit win?

How many MAC Championship Games did Cubit lead WMU to?

What was Cubit's record against Central Michigan?

Under Bill Cubit WMU = We're Mediocre University.

Gotta compete for championships and beat your rival for survival.

Results matter.

It’s the MAC not the SEC. since going to two divisions only two teams haven’t played for a MAC Championship. It’s a parity league. You’re way to hung up on hardware. There is no BAMA or OSU in the MAC.

Dip getting on other posters about being “hung up” on stuff...



Can’t make this stuff up, folks.

Your sarcasm aside, CD's point is right-on. With the exception of probably 10-12 programs in college football all the rest have their ups and downs annually. Big 10, SEC, PAC 10 and maybe another two conferences have programs like that. The rest of us-any team in the conference can beat any other team on a given day. There are no dynasties in the MAC. The conference champion every year has to have a lot of luck and breaks. The talent isn't that much different from every other team.

It's a real concern -- not that "he's not PJ" in how he projects himself.... but it's that he's seemed too much on the other end of the scale. And how much does that trickle down to assistant coaches and such, and setting the mood/tone over time?

Good thing is, being left out of a bowl, having a disappointing season -- I'm sure he'll rethink a lot of things, and hopefully it changes for the better in the tone/mood he proactively sets with the system.

Only a handful of coaches are narssacistic clowns like Fleck. Most have Lester’s sideline demeaner. You don’t have to be a buffoon to get players attention.

(12-12-2017 05:29 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  Only a handful of coaches are narssacistic clowns like Fleck. Most have Lester’s sideline demeaner. You don’t have to be a buffoon to get players attention.

"Narssacistic Clown"is also known as Alpha Male

If we're not better than 6 and 6 next year we have serious problems

(12-12-2017 05:36 PM)goldsworth Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 05:29 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  Only a handful of coaches are narssacistic clowns like Fleck. Most have Lester’s sideline demeaner. You don’t have to be a buffoon to get players attention.

"Narssacistic Clown"is also known as Alpha Male

By implication, does that make Tom Osborne a *ussy?

(12-12-2017 05:36 PM)goldsworth Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 05:29 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  Only a handful of coaches are narssacistic clowns like Fleck. Most have Lester’s sideline demeaner. You don’t have to be a buffoon to get players attention.

"Narssacistic Clown"is also known as Alpha Male

Every coach at almost any level is an alpha male. Narssacistic clowns have there own catagory. Leach at WSU almost falls into that catagory.

BroncoPhilly Wrote: "There are no dynasties in the MAC."

Hmm....
How many MACC's in a row did NIU go to recently?

(12-12-2017 09:49 PM)Bronco XXVIII Wrote:  BroncoPhilly Wrote: "There are no dynasties in the MAC."

Hmm....
How many MACC's in a row did NIU go to recently?

For awhile people were talking about State of Illinois shutting down NIU?

(12-12-2017 10:19 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 09:49 PM)Bronco XXVIII Wrote:  BroncoPhilly Wrote: "There are no dynasties in the MAC."

Hmm....
How many MACC's in a row did NIU go to recently?

For awhile people were talking about State of Illinois shutting down NIU?

Not because of football... so I don't know what point you're trying to make.

(12-12-2017 10:27 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 10:19 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 09:49 PM)Bronco XXVIII Wrote:  BroncoPhilly Wrote: "There are no dynasties in the MAC."

Hmm....
How many MACC's in a row did NIU go to recently?

For awhile people were talking about State of Illinois shutting down NIU?

Not because of football... so I don't know what point you're trying to make.

Not a point. More a question. Is there still talk of shutting down NIU? It would be such a shame to shut down a dynasty like the Sled Dogs. You know, with the terrific coaches and players they’ve had over the years and the total domination they’ve displayed, etc.

(12-12-2017 09:49 PM)Bronco XXVIII Wrote:  BroncoPhilly Wrote: "There are no dynasties in the MAC."

Hmm....
How many MACC's in a row did NIU go to recently?

How many did they win?

(12-10-2017 05:19 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  With the exception of probably 10-12 programs in college football all the rest have their ups and downs annually. Big 10, SEC, PAC 10 and maybe another two conferences have programs like that. The rest of us-any team in the conference can beat any other team on a given day. There are no dynasties in the MAC. The conference champion every year has to have a lot of luck and breaks. The talent isn't that much different from every other team.

NIU and Toledo are programs that have had pretty consistent runs. Nobody's looking for the type of "dynasty" I think you are talking about -- Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson... 12+ wins every year. But it's not unrealistic to have expectations that we belong at the top of the MAC. Especially considering the resources we are committing to the football program and the way we've been recruiting. I disagree that the talent "isn't that much different".

Boy, the bar sure is pretty freakin' low here.

(12-12-2017 06:14 PM)New School Bronco Wrote:  If we're not better than 6 and 6 next year we have serious problems

Nah, it's a parity league.

(12-13-2017 07:04 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(12-12-2017 09:49 PM)Bronco XXVIII Wrote:  BroncoPhilly Wrote: "There are no dynasties in the MAC."

Hmm....
How many MACC's in a row did NIU go to recently?

How many did they win?

NIU won 6 West division titles ('10-'15) and 3 of them turned into MAC Championships ('11, '13, '14).

(12-13-2017 08:04 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 05:19 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  With the exception of probably 10-12 programs in college football all the rest have their ups and downs annually. Big 10, SEC, PAC 10 and maybe another two conferences have programs like that. The rest of us-any team in the conference can beat any other team on a given day. There are no dynasties in the MAC. The conference champion every year has to have a lot of luck and breaks. The talent isn't that much different from every other team.

NIU and Toledo are programs that have had pretty consistent runs. Nobody's looking for the type of "dynasty" I think you are talking about -- Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson... 12+ wins every year. But it's not unrealistic to have expectations that we belong at the top of the MAC. Especially considering the resources we are committing to the football program and the way we've been recruiting. I disagree that the talent "isn't that much different".

Boy, the bar sure is pretty freakin' low here.

Good post.

Nobody expects to win the MAC every year, and NOBODY expects WMU to be a program like Alabama or Ohio State. A previous poster made-that-up (fabrication is his specialty...) to fit his narrative.

However, it is not unrealistic to expect Western Michigan University football to regularly be in the MAC's upper tier, competing for championships, winning occasionally (more than once every three decades) and beating its primary rival consistently.

I am confident Tim Lester can accomplish the above and 2017 was an anomaly. He is not Bill Cubit or Dan Enos.

The 2017 season was failure for multiple reasons. Ultimately, it was a transition year for both players and coaches, and it showed. Combine that with untimely, critical injuries and you have a 6-6 record with an infuriating loss to our primary rival.

Considering Lester's recruiting, and the players returning, WMU football has much to look forward to in the coming seasons. High, realistic, expectations are not unwarranted and 6-6 records with losses to CMU are not acceptable. I'm sure Lester & his staff and team would agree.

When recruiting rankings are typically No. 60 at the top of the MAC and many in the 110-120 range for bottom of the MAC that means the talent level at top of MAC is closer to Clemson than it is the bottom of the MAC.

There is no reason why WMU can’t have its title chances come down to the final game each year and average 9 wins. That means going 2-2 in non conference and only losing 1 in MAC play. I swear the people on here who claim MAC parity have no clue in facility, budget, nutrition or recruiting numbers. 20 years ago everyone was the same except for Marshall.

The facility boom in the last 10 years has widened the gap between those who invest and those who don’t. There are clear tiers for infrastructure investments. WMU, NIU, Toledo, Ohio and Akron, Miami (recent investment) in one tier and everyone else in another. CMU is in a middle tier by themselves with EMU at top of bottom tier. They’ll never get the fan support required to make a sustained jump IMO. Buffalo, Ball, Kent, BG are at the bottom and while they try to compete from time to time they can’t sustain it.

Akron actually has I think the best stadium in the league. They just don’t support it with an equally deserving coaching staff. They rely on transfers instead of getting a coach from Ohio St that knows the state for recruiting and then develops a fan base equal to what they’ve done in MBB and MSOC.