https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/11/...to-college

Well that's one way to do it.

I would bet a lot of money this is not isolated to Ballou HS in Washington, DC. A lot.

I would also like to know how these kids got into college, and what colleges they are attending.

As a 10-year vet of the college admission world, this is not uncommon at all. Many inner-city schools have MUCH lower standards for graduation that are uniformly pushed to all teachers (which is a primary reason why they can't hold on to the good ones). The biggest thing that indicates this is the performance gap between GPA and ACT/SAT. Many of the inner city schools I worked with had a "correlation" that just did not make any sense at all...they would have the highest GPAs out of students I worked with, but the lowest standardized test scores by a country mile.

The hardest part of this was the schools who had at least a modicum of respect and willingness to prepare their students for more than just bubble sheets ended up having students come into school with less scholarship money due to their lower GPAs/higher standards of excellence.

For instance, there were two schools near one of the institutions I worked for previous to my current employer who show this incredibly well.

High School A: 3.1 average GPA (with no 5.0 courses) and 28.1 avg ACT
High School B: 3.85 average GPA and 18.2 avg ACT.

The saddest part of this was the fact that there were many schools placing in the 80th-90th percentile range in intelligence factor indicators who weren't getting ANY scholarship money due to their sub 3.0 GPAs while students with sub 30th percentile ACTs were getting half-rides due to their GPAs being manipulated. Many of the students from High School B are only in college for a semester or two because they aren't prepared, and many from High School A tended to perform well, if not better, in comparison to their HS performance.

Charter schools are even worse, especially in Ohio. There was a charter school in Dayton run by a subsidiary of the educational consultant our governor's wife works for that reported attendance figures 400% larger than their enrollment in order to have higher state subsidies because they knew they wouldn't be reviewed. It wasn't until a news agency went sniffing that it came to light.

The damnation of the education system is truly killing our country, and the ones who can and would fix it, aren't involved due to their desire to make a wage commensurate with their effort. The very few who are in the system for the right reasons and work to correct the mistakes are taken (myself included) are taken to the woodshed by both sides due to our desire to increase accountability on one side and funding on the other.

(11-30-2017 10:04 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  As a 10-year vet of the college admission world, this is not uncommon at all. Many inner-city schools have MUCH lower standards for graduation that are uniformly pushed to all teachers (which is a primary reason why they can't hold on to the good ones). The biggest thing that indicates this is the performance gap between GPA and ACT/SAT. Many of the inner city schools I worked with had a "correlation" that just did not make any sense at all...they would have the highest GPAs out of students I worked with, but the lowest standardized test scores by a country mile.

The hardest part of this was the schools who had at least a modicum of respect and willingness to prepare their students for more than just bubble sheets ended up having students come into school with less scholarship money due to their lower GPAs/higher standards of excellence.

For instance, there were two schools near one of the institutions I worked for previous to my current employer who show this incredibly well.

High School A: 3.1 average GPA (with no 5.0 courses) and 28.1 avg ACT
High School B: 3.85 average GPA and 18.2 avg ACT.

The saddest part of this was the fact that there were many schools placing in the 80th-90th percentile range in intelligence factor indicators who weren't getting ANY scholarship money due to their sub 3.0 GPAs while students with sub 30th percentile ACTs were getting half-rides due to their GPAs being manipulated. Many of the students from High School B are only in college for a semester or two because they aren't prepared, and many from High School A tended to perform well, if not better, in comparison to their HS performance.

Charter schools are even worse, especially in Ohio. There was a charter school in Dayton run by a subsidiary of the educational consultant our governor's wife works for that reported attendance figures 400% larger than their enrollment in order to have higher state subsidies because they knew they wouldn't be reviewed. It wasn't until a news agency went sniffing that it came to light.

The damnation of the education system is truly killing our country, and the ones who can and would fix it, aren't involved due to their desire to make a wage commensurate with their effort. The very few who are in the system for the right reasons and work to correct the mistakes are taken (myself included) are taken to the woodshed by both sides due to our desire to increase accountability on one side and funding on the other.

The near abandonment of SAT consideration really screwed the millennial and younger Gen X crowd and now many college have fully abandoned it. I could have gotten a 4.0 in public school just by showing up 80% of the time. Had some friends in public school that are not at all bright that got into schools like UVA. Meanwhile, in private school, we were saddled with 3+ hours of homework each night and graduated with 2.8 GPAs and couldn't get in anywhere outside of ODU, VCU, and George Mason despite a 1400 SAT score. Granted, the top 10% of our class were all accepted to the Ivies and the Service Academies, but they were also geniuses.

(11-30-2017 10:11 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  The near abandonment of SAT consideration really screwed the millennial and younger Gen X crowd and now many college have fully abandoned it. I could have gotten a 4.0 in public school just by showing up 80% of the time. Had some friends in public school that are not at all bright that got into schools like UVA. Meanwhile, in private school, we were saddled with 3+ hours of homework each night and graduated with 2.8 GPAs and couldn't get in anywhere outside of ODU, VCU, and George Mason despite a 1400 SAT score. Granted, the top 10% of our class were all accepted to the Ivies and the Service Academies, but they were also geniuses.

I went to private elementary school. For middle school I switched to public while all my friends stayed private. At high school a few then switched to public. While both of us were in 9th grade, I was a grade level ahead in math. We both took the top classes possible in middle school but the private school just didn’t have enough students to justify an advanced math course.

If you don’t care about your kids education, it’s going to suck no matter where they go to school. Most parents of children in private schools give a damn and that’s why the kids do well. But honestly, you can get just as good or better education in public school if you just push your child into the right classes.

Edit: all that to say that yes you can get a 4.0 in public school just by showing up if you enroll in the most basic, remedial class. But the higher level classes at public schools are often times just as or more rigorous.

(11-30-2017 10:30 AM)EpicNiner Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:11 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  The near abandonment of SAT consideration really screwed the millennial and younger Gen X crowd and now many college have fully abandoned it. I could have gotten a 4.0 in public school just by showing up 80% of the time. Had some friends in public school that are not at all bright that got into schools like UVA. Meanwhile, in private school, we were saddled with 3+ hours of homework each night and graduated with 2.8 GPAs and couldn't get in anywhere outside of ODU, VCU, and George Mason despite a 1400 SAT score. Granted, the top 10% of our class were all accepted to the Ivies and the Service Academies, but they were also geniuses.

I went to private elementary school. For middle school I switched to public while all my friends stayed private. At high school a few then switched to public. While both of us were in 9th grade, I was a grade level ahead in math. We both took the top classes possible in middle school but the private school just didn’t have enough students to justify an advanced math course.

If you don’t care about your kids education, it’s going to suck no matter where they go to school. Most parents of children in private schools give a damn and that’s why the kids do well. But honestly, you can get just as good or better education in public school if you just push your child into the right classes.

Edit: all that to say that yes you can get a 4.0 in public school just by showing up if you enroll in the most basic, remedial class. But the higher level classes at public schools are often times just as or more rigorous.

I care that the education be well rounded. That means education both in and out of school. I'd much rather my children learn interpersonal and leadership skills as well as real employment skills than be saddled with 3 hours of academic busy work every night. Like everything else, a balance is needed. I expect good marks and discipline, but to get ahead in the world, leadership, networking, and interpersonal skills are far more important than just academics.

For instance, a good real estate agent (or any other specialized sales professional) makes what... about 5x as much as a staff accountant or great researcher?

Business is people wherever you land.

My son is very bright (not sure about the other 2 yet). I'm not going to make him do anything academically he isn't self-driven to do. If he wants to take grade appropriate classes and get a 4.0 without having to do much extra work, I am fine with it. If he wants to bury himself in advanced competitive classes, I'm fine with that too... but one thing is for sure, he is going to be heavily involved with other things, be it sports, clubs, employment, and social activities. He will not be coming home and playing video games and texting on a phone all day and night. He will be developing skills that will put him ahead of the competition.

(11-30-2017 11:04 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:30 AM)EpicNiner Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:11 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  The near abandonment of SAT consideration really screwed the millennial and younger Gen X crowd and now many college have fully abandoned it. I could have gotten a 4.0 in public school just by showing up 80% of the time. Had some friends in public school that are not at all bright that got into schools like UVA. Meanwhile, in private school, we were saddled with 3+ hours of homework each night and graduated with 2.8 GPAs and couldn't get in anywhere outside of ODU, VCU, and George Mason despite a 1400 SAT score. Granted, the top 10% of our class were all accepted to the Ivies and the Service Academies, but they were also geniuses.

I went to private elementary school. For middle school I switched to public while all my friends stayed private. At high school a few then switched to public. While both of us were in 9th grade, I was a grade level ahead in math. We both took the top classes possible in middle school but the private school just didn’t have enough students to justify an advanced math course.

If you don’t care about your kids education, it’s going to suck no matter where they go to school. Most parents of children in private schools give a damn and that’s why the kids do well. But honestly, you can get just as good or better education in public school if you just push your child into the right classes.

Edit: all that to say that yes you can get a 4.0 in public school just by showing up if you enroll in the most basic, remedial class. But the higher level classes at public schools are often times just as or more rigorous.

I care that the education be well rounded. That means education both in and out of school. I'd much rather my children learn interpersonal and leadership skills as well as real employment skills than be saddled with 3 hours of academic busy work every night. Like everything else, a balance is needed. I expect good marks and discipline, but to get ahead in the world, leadership, networking, and interpersonal skills are far more important than just academics.

For instance, a good real estate agent (or any other specialized sales professional) makes what... about 5x as much as a staff accountant or great researcher?

Business is people wherever you land.

My son is very bright (not sure about the other 2 yet). I'm not going to make him do anything academically he isn't self-driven to do. If he wants to take grade appropriate classes and get a 4.0 without having to do much extra work, I am fine with it. If he wants to bury himself in advanced competitive classes, I'm fine with that too... but one thing is for sure, he is going to be heavily involved with other things, be it sports, clubs, employment, and social activities. He will not be coming home and playing video games and texting on a phone all day and night. He will be developing skills that will put him ahead of the competition.

The bolded is the underlying issue with most parents these days...they don't expect these things from their kids and certainly aren't able to back them up if they do. I work with graduating seniors in college mostly outside of my lectures and the amount of students who you can tell have not had discipline instilled (both in work and in life actions) is growing yearly.

And thank the lord you're getting your son involved, I can only hope more people do the same in the upcoming generation. More people need to do this rather than give them outs...not just because of college admission or job applications, but because of the skills and perspectives that are developed by doing them.

(11-30-2017 11:11 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 11:04 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:30 AM)EpicNiner Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:11 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  The near abandonment of SAT consideration really screwed the millennial and younger Gen X crowd and now many college have fully abandoned it. I could have gotten a 4.0 in public school just by showing up 80% of the time. Had some friends in public school that are not at all bright that got into schools like UVA. Meanwhile, in private school, we were saddled with 3+ hours of homework each night and graduated with 2.8 GPAs and couldn't get in anywhere outside of ODU, VCU, and George Mason despite a 1400 SAT score. Granted, the top 10% of our class were all accepted to the Ivies and the Service Academies, but they were also geniuses.

I went to private elementary school. For middle school I switched to public while all my friends stayed private. At high school a few then switched to public. While both of us were in 9th grade, I was a grade level ahead in math. We both took the top classes possible in middle school but the private school just didn’t have enough students to justify an advanced math course.

If you don’t care about your kids education, it’s going to suck no matter where they go to school. Most parents of children in private schools give a damn and that’s why the kids do well. But honestly, you can get just as good or better education in public school if you just push your child into the right classes.

Edit: all that to say that yes you can get a 4.0 in public school just by showing up if you enroll in the most basic, remedial class. But the higher level classes at public schools are often times just as or more rigorous.

I care that the education be well rounded. That means education both in and out of school. I'd much rather my children learn interpersonal and leadership skills as well as real employment skills than be saddled with 3 hours of academic busy work every night. Like everything else, a balance is needed. I expect good marks and discipline, but to get ahead in the world, leadership, networking, and interpersonal skills are far more important than just academics.

For instance, a good real estate agent (or any other specialized sales professional) makes what... about 5x as much as a staff accountant or great researcher?

Business is people wherever you land.

My son is very bright (not sure about the other 2 yet). I'm not going to make him do anything academically he isn't self-driven to do. If he wants to take grade appropriate classes and get a 4.0 without having to do much extra work, I am fine with it. If he wants to bury himself in advanced competitive classes, I'm fine with that too... but one thing is for sure, he is going to be heavily involved with other things, be it sports, clubs, employment, and social activities. He will not be coming home and playing video games and texting on a phone all day and night. He will be developing skills that will put him ahead of the competition.

The bolded is the underlying issue with most parents these days...they don't expect these things from their kids and certainly aren't able to back them up if they do. I work with graduating seniors in college mostly outside of my lectures and the amount of students who you can tell have not had discipline instilled (both in work and in life actions) is growing yearly.

And thank the lord you're getting your son involved, I can only hope more people do the same in the upcoming generation. More people need to do this rather than give them outs...not just because of college admission or job applications, but because of the skills and perspectives that are developed by doing them.

I think most people truly do what they think is best for their children. The boomers had an economy where a college degree was an in to make a lot of money and the school you went to was important to making more money. I really cannot blame them for making this a primary focus for their children. Xers entered the workforce and a college degree could then sometimes get you a foot in the door for a much lower paying entry level position (relative to the boomers), but advancement was not a guarantee unless you have demonstrated the ability to create value and work the politics or move to another company. Now a college degree is rarely enough to even get a foot in the door. Too many people have them and technology has developed to where real, interpersonal, face to face networking skills have become a huge weakness... and as I said, all business is people and will always be people. Even if the workers ultimately get replaced by robots, people and relationships will always be needed to generate the revenue and keep the lights on. That is the weakness I am trying to exploit in my parenting. I hope it works, but either way the ability to adapt to changing paradigms is going to be important and a well rounded education that goes well beyond academics should be necessary.