(11-18-2017 01:49 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  As a Missouri native, I don't think UMKC has a realistic chance of making DI work long-term. If the MVC gets poached they're probably school nine on their list to backfill, and the only other truly geographically compact conferences for them are in DII. They made the CBI quarterfinals last year so maybe they have hope, but imo they don't have many options.

It's always been interesting to see such a small amount of DI teams there. Indiana is a similar sized midwestern state with four FBS (ND, IU, Purdue, Ball State), two FCS (Butler, Indiana State), and four non-football (IPFW, IUPUI, Valpo, Evansville). Missouri has one FBS (Mizzou), two FCS (Missouri State, SEMO), and two non-football schools (SLU, UMKC). Really none of them but Mizzou and SLU basketball under Majerus (and soccer historically) have been a factor, while the state's DII teams are pretty solid between NW Missouri State having a dominant football team and Central Missouri having a really solid overall athletic program.

Valpo does have football. It is in the Pioneer League.

(11-18-2017 01:14 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 01:05 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Yea, no chance UMKC responds to a report recommending finding significant savings in the athletic department by adding a high-cost sport whose team would need to be flown to just about all away games. The report basically says they need to rejoin the Summit or drop to a lower division, not undertake a major expense to up their local profile.

Lamar Hunt Jr has dropped his idea of an precollege league, a USHL team, and now will not build an Overland Park Arena for it. He has publicly committed to hockey development in KC, so a UMKC hockey team isn't too much of a stretch if it has a sugar daddy. The 5800 seat arena in Independence Mo would work fine for an NCAA team.

UMKC doesn't have a sugar daddy b/c if they did they wouldn't be looking to drop to D2 or head back to the Summit. They can't compete against WAC schools and most ppl view the WAC as a very low athletic conference still.

(11-19-2017 11:23 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 01:14 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 01:05 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Yea, no chance UMKC responds to a report recommending finding significant savings in the athletic department by adding a high-cost sport whose team would need to be flown to just about all away games. The report basically says they need to rejoin the Summit or drop to a lower division, not undertake a major expense to up their local profile.

Lamar Hunt Jr has dropped his idea of an precollege league, a USHL team, and now will not build an Overland Park Arena for it. He has publicly committed to hockey development in KC, so a UMKC hockey team isn't too much of a stretch if it has a sugar daddy. The 5800 seat arena in Independence Mo would work fine for an NCAA team.

UMKC doesn't have a sugar daddy b/c if they did they wouldn't be looking to drop to D2 or head back to the Summit. They can't compete against WAC schools and most ppl view the WAC as a very low athletic conference still.

Well of course a sugar daddy isn't going to pay for the entire athletic department. UMKC could move to DII and it can still go DI hockey. There is a viable rink for college hockey so needing a Penn St hockey endowment is also preposterous, as others have stipulated.

Hockey at UMKC? While we are at it, why not add FB and have them added into the Montucky-Dakota FBS conference. Seems like a logical fit, no?

Curious what the timeline would be for UMKC going back to the Summit and how that impacts the WAC reaching out to its next add (APU).

(11-20-2017 02:50 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Hockey at UMKC? While we are at it, why not add FB and have them added into the Montucky-Dakota FBS conference. Seems like a logical fit, no?

Curious what the timeline would be for UMKC going back to the Summit and how that impacts the WAC reaching out to its next add (APU).

Hey, leave the rest of the Dakota's out of that discussion. That's a NoDak thing.

As for UMKC's decision, I would expect that if they are going back to the Summit it will be announced in the next 12 months.

UMKC's timeline won't affect a WAC offer to APU. What may slow an APU offer is their trying to figure out what happens with FB. Their best move would be to join San Diego in the Pioneer (non-scholarship).

(11-21-2017 04:21 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(11-20-2017 02:50 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Hockey at UMKC? While we are at it, why not add FB and have them added into the Montucky-Dakota FBS conference. Seems like a logical fit, no?

Curious what the timeline would be for UMKC going back to the Summit and how that impacts the WAC reaching out to its next add (APU).

Hey, leave the rest of the Dakota's out of that discussion. That's a NoDak thing.

As for UMKC's decision, I would expect that if they are going back to the Summit it will be announced in the next 12 months.

UMKC's timeline won't affect a WAC offer to APU. What may slow an APU offer is their trying to figure out what happens with FB. Their best move would be to join San Diego in the Pioneer (non-scholarship).

Or the Big Sky as an affiliate in football.

(11-21-2017 04:21 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(11-20-2017 02:50 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Hockey at UMKC? While we are at it, why not add FB and have them added into the Montucky-Dakota FBS conference. Seems like a logical fit, no?

Curious what the timeline would be for UMKC going back to the Summit and how that impacts the WAC reaching out to its next add (APU).

Hey, leave the rest of the Dakota's out of that discussion. That's a NoDak thing.

As for UMKC's decision, I would expect that if they are going back to the Summit it will be announced in the next 12 months.

UMKC's timeline won't affect a WAC offer to APU. What may slow an APU offer is their trying to figure out what happens with FB. Their best move would be to join San Diego in the Pioneer (non-scholarship).

UMKC departing the WAC is really only an issue if Chicago State doesn’t survive as a Division I program. That may be the case where the Big Sky tries to offload Southern Utah or Northern Colorado to the WAC just to keep the autobid alive.

(11-21-2017 06:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 04:21 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(11-20-2017 02:50 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Hockey at UMKC? While we are at it, why not add FB and have them added into the Montucky-Dakota FBS conference. Seems like a logical fit, no?

Curious what the timeline would be for UMKC going back to the Summit and how that impacts the WAC reaching out to its next add (APU).

Hey, leave the rest of the Dakota's out of that discussion. That's a NoDak thing.

As for UMKC's decision, I would expect that if they are going back to the Summit it will be announced in the next 12 months.

UMKC's timeline won't affect a WAC offer to APU. What may slow an APU offer is their trying to figure out what happens with FB. Their best move would be to join San Diego in the Pioneer (non-scholarship).

Or the Big Sky as an affiliate in football.

APU is not going to get an invite to the BSC as an affiliate. In fact, I would not be surprised if the BSC looks at getting rid of affiliates all together. The league has issues in FB right now. It is too big and that may be hurting their chance at more playoff bids. The BSC should not be a 3 bid league yet that is what they got into the playoffs this year. The MVFC, with only 10 schools got in 5. CAA got in four. The Southland tied the BSC with three. A 7-4 USD and a 7-4 New Hampshire both received bids over a 7-4 EWU and 7-4 Montana. Partly based on perception.

The BSC need to make some changes, get back to their core, eliminate affiliates and possibly send UNC packing. Adding APU would not fit what that league, and the member schools need to do if they hope to strengthen the league, or at least the perception of the league.

There is talk from EWU's AD again about splitting the BSC football, as they are miffed at getting passed over and the BSC not egtting sufficient playoff representation.

A split would be a spin off football only conference of the California schools, SUU, NAU and one of PSU/Weber/NoCo, likely NoCo

If APU joined each conference would have 7 teams. The "core" Big Sky has not been happy with the Great West additions (UND who are exiting, NoCo, SUU, UCD and Cal Poly) and would love to spin them off, at least in football. APU coming in and UND exiting would make that easier.

(11-21-2017 08:21 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 06:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 04:21 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(11-20-2017 02:50 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Hockey at UMKC? While we are at it, why not add FB and have them added into the Montucky-Dakota FBS conference. Seems like a logical fit, no?

Curious what the timeline would be for UMKC going back to the Summit and how that impacts the WAC reaching out to its next add (APU).

Hey, leave the rest of the Dakota's out of that discussion. That's a NoDak thing.

As for UMKC's decision, I would expect that if they are going back to the Summit it will be announced in the next 12 months.

UMKC's timeline won't affect a WAC offer to APU. What may slow an APU offer is their trying to figure out what happens with FB. Their best move would be to join San Diego in the Pioneer (non-scholarship).

Or the Big Sky as an affiliate in football.

APU is not going to get an invite to the BSC as an affiliate. In fact, I would not be surprised if the BSC looks at getting rid of affiliates all together. The league has issues in FB right now. It is too big and that may be hurting their chance at more playoff bids. The BSC should not be a 3 bid league yet that is what they got into the playoffs this year. The MVFC, with only 10 schools got in 5. CAA got in four. The Southland tied the BSC with three. A 7-4 USD and a 7-4 New Hampshire both received bids over a 7-4 EWU and 7-4 Montana. Partly based on perception.

The BSC need to make some changes, get back to their core, eliminate affiliates and possibly send UNC packing. Adding APU would not fit what that league, and the member schools need to do if they hope to strengthen the league, or at least the perception of the league.

I have a fix for that.....as soon as I put the finishing touches on my The Great Realignment of 2020.

(11-21-2017 07:10 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 04:21 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(11-20-2017 02:50 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Hockey at UMKC? While we are at it, why not add FB and have them added into the Montucky-Dakota FBS conference. Seems like a logical fit, no?

Curious what the timeline would be for UMKC going back to the Summit and how that impacts the WAC reaching out to its next add (APU).

Hey, leave the rest of the Dakota's out of that discussion. That's a NoDak thing.

As for UMKC's decision, I would expect that if they are going back to the Summit it will be announced in the next 12 months.

UMKC's timeline won't affect a WAC offer to APU. What may slow an APU offer is their trying to figure out what happens with FB. Their best move would be to join San Diego in the Pioneer (non-scholarship).

UMKC departing the WAC is really only an issue if Chicago State doesn’t survive as a Division I program. That may be the case where the Big Sky tries to offload Southern Utah or Northern Colorado to the WAC just to keep the autobid alive.

So you want the Big Sky to off-load One of its better football teams just to help the WAC survive ? Come on you're dipping into David ST territory with that idiocy

(11-21-2017 08:48 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is talk from EWU's AD again about splitting the BSC football, as they are miffed at getting passed over and the BSC not egtting sufficient playoff representation.

A split would be a spin off football only conference of the California schools, SUU, NAU and one of PSU/Weber/NoCo, likely NoCo

If APU joined each conference would have 7 teams. The "core" Big Sky has not been happy with the Great West additions (UND who are exiting, NoCo, SUU, UCD and Cal Poly) and would love to spin them off, at least in football. APU coming in and UND exiting would make that easier.

The Montana schools are just upset that they're no longer competitive


Yes the EWU AD is upset - has good reason, although when you're seven and for you leave your feet up to the committee

(11-21-2017 08:48 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is talk from EWU's AD again about splitting the BSC football, as they are miffed at getting passed over and the BSC not egtting sufficient playoff representation.

A split would be a spin off football only conference of the California schools, SUU, NAU and one of PSU/Weber/NoCo, likely NoCo

If APU joined each conference would have 7 teams. The "core" Big Sky has not been happy with the Great West additions (UND who are exiting, NoCo, SUU, UCD and Cal Poly) and would love to spin them off, at least in football. APU coming in and UND exiting would make that easier.

Link?

I've been saying a Big Sky split is coming all along, but have gotten blasted for it. But suddenly, a poster who said I was so delusional for wanting the Montana's splitting with California fb schoois, now does a 180. A split conference only works if more schools are introduced into the mix: all the Dakotas.

(11-21-2017 08:21 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 06:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 04:21 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(11-20-2017 02:50 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Hockey at UMKC? While we are at it, why not add FB and have them added into the Montucky-Dakota FBS conference. Seems like a logical fit, no?

Curious what the timeline would be for UMKC going back to the Summit and how that impacts the WAC reaching out to its next add (APU).

Hey, leave the rest of the Dakota's out of that discussion. That's a NoDak thing.

As for UMKC's decision, I would expect that if they are going back to the Summit it will be announced in the next 12 months.

UMKC's timeline won't affect a WAC offer to APU. What may slow an APU offer is their trying to figure out what happens with FB. Their best move would be to join San Diego in the Pioneer (non-scholarship).

Or the Big Sky as an affiliate in football.

APU is not going to get an invite to the BSC as an affiliate. In fact, I would not be surprised if the BSC looks at getting rid of affiliates all together. The league has issues in FB right now. It is too big and that may be hurting their chance at more playoff bids. The BSC should not be a 3 bid league yet that is what they got into the playoffs this year. The MVFC, with only 10 schools got in 5. CAA got in four. The Southland tied the BSC with three. A 7-4 USD and a 7-4 New Hampshire both received bids over a 7-4 EWU and 7-4 Montana. Partly based on perception.

The BSC need to make some changes, get back to their core, eliminate affiliates and possibly send UNC packing. Adding APU would not fit what that league, and the member schools need to do if they hope to strengthen the league, or at least the perception of the league.

I hope for BSC changes but doubt it happens. Agree that APU FB would be a dumb idea and just isn't a fit in the public BSC.

Also EWU is the only BSC team with a legitimate gripe about not getting a playoff invite. Sac State would be next in line after EWU, then a next on the list would have been Montucky (but not really, they weren't good this year). The bigger issue is the selection committee selecting a USD team that lost 4 of its last 5, and UNH that got shutout by a terrible Albany team in the final week.

(11-21-2017 08:48 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is talk from EWU's AD again about splitting the BSC football, as they are miffed at getting passed over and the BSC not egtting sufficient playoff representation.

A split would be a spin off football only conference of the California schools, SUU, NAU and one of PSU/Weber/NoCo, likely NoCo

If APU joined each conference would have 7 teams. The "core" Big Sky has not been happy with the Great West additions (UND who are exiting, NoCo, SUU, UCD and Cal Poly) and would love to spin them off, at least in football. APU coming in and UND exiting would make that easier.

This would be awesome...but we all know it won't happen. If Sac State could park FB in an FCS FB only conference, we could get Olys into a more sensible home (WAC or BW).

(11-22-2017 01:17 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 08:48 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is talk from EWU's AD again about splitting the BSC football, as they are miffed at getting passed over and the BSC not egtting sufficient playoff representation.

A split would be a spin off football only conference of the California schools, SUU, NAU and one of PSU/Weber/NoCo, likely NoCo

If APU joined each conference would have 7 teams. The "core" Big Sky has not been happy with the Great West additions (UND who are exiting, NoCo, SUU, UCD and Cal Poly) and would love to spin them off, at least in football. APU coming in and UND exiting would make that easier.

Link?

I've been saying a Big Sky split is coming all along, but have gotten blasted for it. But suddenly, a poster who said I was so delusional for wanting the Montana's splitting with California fb schoois, now does a 180. A split conference only works if more schools are introduced into the mix: all the Dakotas.

Because your move is about going FBS which takes crap loads of resources and leadership for a membership list that is shrinking in enrollment and available funds (namely the montuckies).

An FCS FB only conference is more than plausible. Biggest issue with this idea is finding Oly homes for the "FB only" folks and whether or not the BSC would be willing to give up some control over those institutions.

(11-22-2017 03:08 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Because your move is about going FBS which takes crap loads of resources and leadership for a membership list that is shrinking in enrollment and available funds (namely the montuckies).

An FCS FB only conference is more than plausible. Biggest issue with this idea is finding Oly homes for the "FB only" folks and whether or not the BSC would be willing to give up some control over those institutions.

There is only one "montucky" school having money problems and it's not MSU.

(11-22-2017 01:17 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 08:48 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is talk from EWU's AD again about splitting the BSC football, as they are miffed at getting passed over and the BSC not egtting sufficient playoff representation.

A split would be a spin off football only conference of the California schools, SUU, NAU and one of PSU/Weber/NoCo, likely NoCo

If APU joined each conference would have 7 teams. The "core" Big Sky has not been happy with the Great West additions (UND who are exiting, NoCo, SUU, UCD and Cal Poly) and would love to spin them off, at least in football. APU coming in and UND exiting would make that easier.

Link?

I've been saying a Big Sky split is coming all along, but have gotten blasted for it. But suddenly, a poster who said I was so delusional for wanting the Montana's splitting with California fb schoois, now does a 180. A split conference only works if more schools are introduced into the mix: all the Dakotas.

NoDak's not wrong to ask for a link here. Sources matter. And carefully reading the sources matters a lot.

Now, an new FCS football-only conference is a whole lot easier than a new or upgraded FBS conference. FCS football-only conference only has to wait two years for an autobid. Six schools, two years, bing bang boom, done deal. There's no FCS pie to worry about dividing up, so go nuts.

Oh, and splitting the Big Sky into 2 FCS conferences doesn't NEED to add any schools to work. 7 schools in Big Sky Atlantic Legends Conference, 6 schools in Big Sky Coastal LEaders Conference and as far as the rulebook is concerned everything's fine.

You're not delusional for saying that the Montanas may have reason to want to associate with the Dakota 4 (and Idaho and Denver) over the Big Sky directionals and FCS California schools. You're delusional for A) saying that it's etched in stone definitely gonna happen and B) for saying that it's going to happen in the form of an FBS conference. Oh, and for saying that the revamped Summit is going to somehow kick out Western Illinois and maybe ORal Roberts.

(11-22-2017 03:08 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 01:17 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 08:48 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is talk from EWU's AD again about splitting the BSC football, as they are miffed at getting passed over and the BSC not egtting sufficient playoff representation.

A split would be a spin off football only conference of the California schools, SUU, NAU and one of PSU/Weber/NoCo, likely NoCo

If APU joined each conference would have 7 teams. The "core" Big Sky has not been happy with the Great West additions (UND who are exiting, NoCo, SUU, UCD and Cal Poly) and would love to spin them off, at least in football. APU coming in and UND exiting would make that easier.

Link?

I've been saying a Big Sky split is coming all along, but have gotten blasted for it. But suddenly, a poster who said I was so delusional for wanting the Montana's splitting with California fb schoois, now does a 180. A split conference only works if more schools are introduced into the mix: all the Dakotas.

Because your move is about going FBS which takes crap loads of resources and leadership for a membership list that is shrinking in enrollment and available funds (namely the montuckies).

An FCS FB only conference is more than plausible. Biggest issue with this idea is finding Oly homes for the "FB only" folks and whether or not the BSC would be willing to give up some control over those institutions.

Any schools that the Big Sky wanted to part ways with should have no trouble finding a new home for Olympic sports. The Big West would probably be willing to take Sac State (allowing it to also add UCSD while preserving the CSU/UC balance) and NAU (a solid public research school within driving distance of SoCal which fits the Big West profile), while the WAC would love to have APU, SUU and Northern Colorado to offset the potential losses of UMKC and Chicago State.

(11-22-2017 11:52 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 03:08 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 01:17 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 08:48 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is talk from EWU's AD again about splitting the BSC football, as they are miffed at getting passed over and the BSC not egtting sufficient playoff representation.

A split would be a spin off football only conference of the California schools, SUU, NAU and one of PSU/Weber/NoCo, likely NoCo

If APU joined each conference would have 7 teams. The "core" Big Sky has not been happy with the Great West additions (UND who are exiting, NoCo, SUU, UCD and Cal Poly) and would love to spin them off, at least in football. APU coming in and UND exiting would make that easier.

Link?

I've been saying a Big Sky split is coming all along, but have gotten blasted for it. But suddenly, a poster who said I was so delusional for wanting the Montana's splitting with California fb schoois, now does a 180. A split conference only works if more schools are introduced into the mix: all the Dakotas.

Because your move is about going FBS which takes crap loads of resources and leadership for a membership list that is shrinking in enrollment and available funds (namely the montuckies).

An FCS FB only conference is more than plausible. Biggest issue with this idea is finding Oly homes for the "FB only" folks and whether or not the BSC would be willing to give up some control over those institutions.

Any schools that the Big Sky wanted to part ways with should have no trouble finding a new home for Olympic sports. The Big West would probably be willing to take Sac State (allowing it to also add UCSD while preserving the CSU/UC balance) and NAU (a solid public research school within driving distance of SoCal which fits the Big West profile), while the WAC would love to have APU, SUU and Northern Colorado pretty much anybody to offset the potential losses of UMKC and Chicago State.