(10-30-2017 04:10 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  That said UIW is not going to be in FBS any time soon as you noted. They fit the Southland like a glove.

This...

UIW is not going to FBS.

Here's the problems they face.

1) They are private, and are in a city with another public FBS team. This is not a good scenario for a moveup
2) They are very small for a FBS program
3) UTSA probably has first dibs on the Alamodome and they have no place to play. The soccer stadium, could, in theory, seat 18,000.
4) If Bensen is their sugardaddy, he certainly isn't a monster donor. And they don't appear to have a massive number of donors either. Their total endowment is 120 million.
5) Benson has been trying to use San Antonio as a stalking horse for leverage in negotiations with New Orleans for decades. Last thing he should want is more competition for football in San Antonio.
6) There are three other FBS programs (including a flagship P5) within 80 miles
7) They have no place to play. They're not moving up as an indy. The Belt doesn't take private schools, CUSA is full, and there's no one else really to cobble together a league with.

Even if there's a league that emerges, see items 1-6.

(10-31-2017 01:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  UIW is not going to FBS.

Here's the problems they face.

1) They are private, and are in a city with another public FBS team. This is not a good scenario for a moveup
2) They are very small for a FBS program
3) UTSA probably has first dibs on the Alamodome and they have no place to play. The soccer stadium, could, in theory, seat 18,000.
4) If Bensen is their sugardaddy, he certainly isn't a monster donor. And they don't appear to have a massive number of donors either. Their total endowment is 120 million.
5) Benson has been trying to use San Antonio as a stalking horse for leverage in negotiations with New Orleans for decades. Last thing he should want is more competition for football in San Antonio.
6) There are three other FBS programs (including a flagship P5) within 80 miles
7) They have no place to play. They're not moving up as an indy. The Belt doesn't take private schools, CUSA is full, and there's no one else really to cobble together a league with.

Even if there's a league that emerges, see items 1-6.

Well the AD is an incompetent fool then

UIW has a larger undergrad enrollment than Rice, SMU and TCU, all of which have nearby public FBS teams. Granted, those schools have history and massive endowments behind them. But a UIW FBS in San Antonio can happen. Very much doubt that the Alamo Dome gave UTSA exclusive rights to it.

FCS is all UIW will be able to do.

UTSA already claimed the FBS football for San Antonio. If UIW was D1 10 years ago, then I could see UIW in the FBS before UTSA even thought of football.

(10-31-2017 01:27 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Well the AD is an incompetent fool then

Or you're a hysterical dingbat, inflating a throwaway comment or two into a secret master plan.

Either the AD (whose minor-award-winning CV can be found here) is an incompetent fool, or you're blowing a few stray comments WAY out of proportion.

Take a deep breath and really think about which of those situations is more likely to be true.

Quote:UIW has a larger undergrad enrollment than Rice, SMU and TCU, all of which have

Century-old football programs who played at the top level of college football, major bowls, national championships, Heisman trophy winners.

Quote:... nearby public FBS teams. Granted, those schools have history and massive endowments behind them.

Seriously, take ten seconds and marvel at the ridiculousness of your comparison there. "Well, after all, three former SWC schools with fanbases and alumni and donor and athlete networks built over a century of top-level college football have small enrollments and are near P5 FBS teams. So there's no reason Incarnate Word can start from scratch in 2017 or in a few years and do the same thing."

(10-31-2017 01:42 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-31-2017 01:27 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Well the AD is an incompetent fool then

Or you're a hysterical dingbat, inflating a throwaway comment or two into a secret master plan.

Either the AD (whose minor-award-winning CV can be found here) is an incompetent fool, or you're blowing a few stray comments WAY out of proportion.

Take a deep breath and really think about which of those situations is more likely to be true.

Quote:UIW has a larger undergrad enrollment than Rice, SMU and TCU, all of which have

Century-old football programs who played at the top level of college football, major bowls, national championships, Heisman trophy winners.

Quote:... nearby public FBS teams. Granted, those schools have history and massive endowments behind them.

Just more stray comments from a poster that thinks FBS is some kind of royalty that shouldn't be extended to common folk.

(10-31-2017 01:49 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Just more stray comments from a poster that thinks FBS is some kind of royalty that shouldn't be extended to common folk.

Like it or not, that's in many ways what it is. And, importantly, that's what The Powers That Be in college sports WANT it to be.

Maybe the fact that you don't understand THAT is why you're so prone to constructing wild fantasy situations.

EDIT: I don't have a personal investment in whether FBS gets extended or not. I just look at the power dynamics, and the patterns of behavior of the power players.

(10-31-2017 01:52 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-31-2017 01:49 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Just more stray comments from a poster that thinks FBS is some kind of royalty that shouldn't be extended to common folk.

Like it or not, that's in many ways what it is. And, importantly, that's what The Powers That Be in college sports WANT it to be.

Maybe the fact that you don't understand THAT is why you're so prone to constructing wild fantasy situations.

EDIT: I don't have a personal investment in whether FBS gets extended or not. I just look at the power dynamics, and the patterns of behavior of the power players.

Well agree that there is a royalty, but its P5 not FBS. The P5 doesn't mind if the G5 gets watered down.

Royalty is not the worst analogy, actually.

Much like the ACC scorning Virginia Tech (and West Virginia) as dirt-road upstarts unfit to hobnob with the fine cultured folk of Tobacco Road until they were forced to. That's not terribly far away from how European royal families regarded the Bonapartes. Even after Napoleon turned France from a REpublic into an Empire, he had trouble securing a royal marriage match. Finally he beat Austria in another war and claimed one of their princesses.

He loses the throne, and a generation later his nephew overthrows the Second REpublic and rings in the Second Empire. Wants to arrange himself a royal marriage with someone, to advertise his acceptance by Europe and the permanency of his (renewed) dynasty. No dice--nobody would marry off a ranking princess to him, he had to settle for an obscure Spanish noble.

It was only in the 1870s that a marriage alliance between the House of Bonaparte and a major ruling family was something that Europe's kings would consider, a possible match between Queen Victoria's youngest daughter and the exiled Prince Napoleon, who hoped to regain the throne of France. 2 Empires, 3 Republics and 70 years passed between the crowning of Emperor Napoleon I and a possible marriage between the House of Bonaparte and a first-rank European royal family.

Royalty is not a bad way of thinking about how the Powers That Be in college athletics look at upstarts.

(10-31-2017 01:59 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Well agree that there is a royalty, but its P5 not FBS. The P5 doesn't mind if the G5 gets watered down.

The royalty doesn't mind if the lesser nobility gets watered down gradually, but you look for sweeping, massive shifts.

You have two full conferences, about 20 schools who you're convince are about to jump to FBS any day now, added to the 60-odd schools in the G5. You look at Liberty getting a waiver for FBS independence, and you take that as meaning that any school at all with a remote interest in FBS can get that same waiver, when it's really just that Liberty is an exception. On top of weaving conspiracy theories about how Idaho dropping to FCS is part of some harebrained scheme to rejoin FBS, when it's really just Idaho dropping to FCS.

(10-31-2017 02:03 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Royalty is not the worst analogy, actually.

Much like the ACC scorning Virginia Tech (and West Virginia) as dirt-road upstarts unfit to hobnob with the fine cultured folk of Tobacco Road until they were forced to. That's not terribly far away from how European royal families regarded the Bonapartes. Even after Napoleon turned France from a REpublic into an Empire, he had trouble securing a royal marriage match. Finally he beat Austria in another war and claimed one of their princesses.

He loses the throne, and a generation later his nephew overthrows the Second REpublic and rings in the Second Empire. Wants to arrange himself a royal marriage with someone, to advertise his acceptance by Europe and the permanency of his (renewed) dynasty. No dice--nobody would marry off a ranking princess to him, he had to settle for an obscure Spanish noble.

It was only in the 1870s that a marriage alliance between the House of Bonaparte and a major ruling family was something that Europe's kings would consider, a possible match between Queen Victoria's youngest daughter and the exiled Prince Napoleon, who hoped to regain the throne of France. 2 Empires, 3 Republics and 70 years passed between the crowning of Emperor Napoleon I and a possible marriage between the House of Bonaparte and a first-rank European royal family.

Royalty is not a bad way of thinking about how the Powers That Be in college athletics look at upstarts.

And Ball St, Akron, Marshall, Appy St, Liberty, Coastal, Troy and ULM are not royalty, as you have made that argument.

(10-31-2017 02:09 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(10-31-2017 02:03 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Royalty is not the worst analogy, actually.
..........

Royalty is not a bad way of thinking about how the Powers That Be in college athletics look at upstarts.

And Ball St, Akron, Marshall, Appy St, Liberty, Coastal, Troy and ULM are not royalty, as you have made that argument.

They are lesser nobility. Coastal is a newly created Marquis or Count, the others are a few generations old. The analogy for Appy State would be a new noble house whose father and grandfathers were prominent people but not noble. (FCS titles, beating Michigan would be like being a court minister or something.) Bowling Green's more ancient lineage than Akron is of little interest to anyone except for a few old MAC fanbases.

If you're a Game of Thrones fan, Liberty is Ser Davos, the Onion Knight. Not accepted as a real equal by the noble houses, only a noble because of extraordinary circumstances, but confident that, with the passage of time, his grubby origins will fade away and his heirs will be just another noble house.

Notice that there are NO rules or standards for starting up an FCS football program. There ARE rules and standards for FBS. There ARE rules and standards for Division I.

Those rules and standards are, in large part, to keep out the rabble.

(10-30-2017 03:50 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  How about no WAC football. Only NMSU sponsors the sport, and at FBS level. At this point having Baseball, Soccer and a SoCal location are the primary and ONLY considerations for WAC entry. The 7 non-football schools are not going to add football schools. And NMSU doesn't give a crap because if they are FBS and don't want FCS schools either.

Asuza Pacific, not Incarnate Word will be the school sometime around 2020

WAC officials said they want to sponsor football again someday.

(10-31-2017 02:41 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(10-30-2017 03:50 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  How about no WAC football. Only NMSU sponsors the sport, and at FBS level. At this point having Baseball, Soccer and a SoCal location are the primary and ONLY considerations for WAC entry. The 7 non-football schools are not going to add football schools. And NMSU doesn't give a crap because if they are FBS and don't want FCS schools either.

Asuza Pacific, not Incarnate Word will be the school sometime around 2020

WAC officials said they want to sponsor football again someday.

Yes, but they did not say FBS football. WAC FBS is officially dead. Right now we've got a 7 page thread about UIW FBS because some reporter asked the AD if they'd ever consider it and got a response, just like most reporters worth their salt would ask any FCS AD after the Liberty thing.

Again, I just don't get why people get upset if schools want to attempt FBS. If they wish too, I have no issue it. If they fail, so be it. If they succeed, good for them.

http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/10/new-m...word-2019/

NMSU just added UIW for 2019 in addition to UIW already having Baylor and UTSA.

(11-01-2017 12:42 AM)NoDak Wrote:  http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/10/new-m...word-2019/

NMSU just added UIW for 2019 in addition to UIW already having Baylor and UTSA.

BAylor is in 2020. http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/big-12/baylor-bears.php

With Baylor being down. It would be funny they lose to IWU.

(11-01-2017 01:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  With Baylor being down. It would be funny they lose to IWU.

It would be hilarious, especially with the religious angle. I so hope Baylor loses to UIW, on some sort of weird controversial call, so we can talk about divine intervention on behalf of the Catholics/ divine punishment for the Art Briles scandals.

(10-31-2017 08:52 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Again, I just don't get why people get upset if schools want to attempt FBS. If they wish too, I have no issue it. If they fail, so be it. If they succeed, good for them.

I don't see anyone getting upset if UIW, etc want to go FBS.


But the negativity has centered around:

1) NoDak's misreading of the article
2) The viability of UIW to go FBS.


Most think that in current state, UIW is nowhere close to being ready for the jump. Liberty at least had the stadium, the money and the attendance.