(10-26-2017 11:52 AM)JMU_71 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 10:29 AM)2Buck Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 04:09 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 07:04 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 06:44 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  +1

The extended success of JMU’s FB team is apparently something that makes Dukester moody. Perhaps it’s the reality that sitting on the top of the FCS world makes FBS look less attractive?

"Less attractive" is for certain, it's the belief we have always been here and will stay forever that is concerning. History doesn't speak well about JMU being any more than a little above average on the gridiron. I love the high and I'm almost certain we will always be a team that must be considered a "need to beat team", but we are far from the dynasty of "three-peat" Appy, the GA Southern and Marshall powerhouse teams, and a good distance from the five-peat NDSU program. Being an equal or "better now" program is great, but holding this spot is not something I am expecting.

Not true on Marshall and App State. If JMU wins the NC this year will make 3 national titles, putting JMU ahead of Marshall’s 2, tied with App State’s 3, and 1 behind YSU’s 4.

Marshall: won 2 NC’s 1992 & 1996.
App State: won 3 straight NCs 2005-2007.
YSU: won 4 NC’s 1991, 1993, 1994, 1997.

Would still be 2 behind NDSU and 3 behind GSU’s 6 they won in the 1980s-2000.

No, BP is correct. App St and Marshall were both dominant for stretches far longer than us. Even Montana. A NC here and there doesn't compare to what those schools did in terms of being a "powerhouse". Now if we win this year and next, we'll be on a level of App St during that run but both Marshall and Montana had a bunch of finals appearances during those stretches. Have we even made it to the semi-finals more than twice? Was 2008 semi-finals?

We've been to the semis 3 times 2004, 2008 and 2016.
We've been to the quarterfinals the above three times and 1991 and 1994.
We've won a playoff game one other year, 2011.
Every other playoff year, we lost our first game: 1987, 1995, 1999, 2006 (hurt), 2007 (hurt more), 2014, 2015

Those two were VERY painful, especially '07. I still have nightmares of that game, including the roar of the grandstand when they realized we just handed them the W.

(10-26-2017 12:40 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 12:31 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 10:16 AM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 09:52 AM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 09:48 AM)Bogey Wrote:  Not wanting to pay coaches more than the president did not start with Alger.

I'm not saying it did...but he is the president now and if that is still a policy he is endorsing, he needs to realize that message that conveys to your alumni and fan base. You can't talk about being a national university out of one side of your mouth and then have small time policies like that come out of the other side.

Just my opinion as a tax payer - tax money should not be used to pay crazy salaries for coaches. It makes perfect sense that the president should be the highest paid (with public money) employee at a public university. If program boosters want to supplement the coach's salary so that it's competitive with other schools, that's great.

I don't know if the JMU salary thing is true or just another urban legend, but if true I would hope it refers to tax-supported salaries. It wouldn't make sense to me put some sort of artificial cap on how much boosters are willing to contribute to coaching salaries.

I didn't think tax payers money could be used for athletics spending?

The coaches make a state-paid salary that's supplemented by other sources. At least that's my understanding.

The coaches' salaries are part of the athletic budget and that athletic budget can not come from tax payer money. I don't know that for a fact but feel it's something that I have heard numerous other people mention on these boards when conversations about our budget compared to other schools comes up.

(10-26-2017 01:02 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 12:40 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 12:31 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 10:16 AM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 09:52 AM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  I'm not saying it did...but he is the president now and if that is still a policy he is endorsing, he needs to realize that message that conveys to your alumni and fan base. You can't talk about being a national university out of one side of your mouth and then have small time policies like that come out of the other side.

Just my opinion as a tax payer - tax money should not be used to pay crazy salaries for coaches. It makes perfect sense that the president should be the highest paid (with public money) employee at a public university. If program boosters want to supplement the coach's salary so that it's competitive with other schools, that's great.

I don't know if the JMU salary thing is true or just another urban legend, but if true I would hope it refers to tax-supported salaries. It wouldn't make sense to me put some sort of artificial cap on how much boosters are willing to contribute to coaching salaries.

I didn't think tax payers money could be used for athletics spending?

The coaches make a state-paid salary that's supplemented by other sources. At least that's my understanding.

The coaches' salaries are part of the athletic budget and that athletic budget can not come from tax payer money. I don't know that for a fact but feel it's something that I have heard numerous other people mention on these boards when conversations about our budget compared to other schools comes up.

I do see some college coaches on this list FWIW... http://data.richmond.com/salaries/2015/state

For example, UVA FB HC Bronco Mendenhall at $500K, though the remainder of his fat contract comes from other sources. I do not know if this tells us anything or not, btw. Just throwing it out there for discussion/review.

edit note: this is from data in 2015...if you choose James Madison University in the Agency drop down you'll see over $300K to Matt Brady as a Professional Instructor. LOL! Same for Mike Houston at 300K and Kenny Brooks over 200 grand.

(10-26-2017 01:20 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 01:02 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 12:40 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 12:31 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 10:16 AM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  Just my opinion as a tax payer - tax money should not be used to pay crazy salaries for coaches. It makes perfect sense that the president should be the highest paid (with public money) employee at a public university. If program boosters want to supplement the coach's salary so that it's competitive with other schools, that's great.

I don't know if the JMU salary thing is true or just another urban legend, but if true I would hope it refers to tax-supported salaries. It wouldn't make sense to me put some sort of artificial cap on how much boosters are willing to contribute to coaching salaries.

I didn't think tax payers money could be used for athletics spending?

The coaches make a state-paid salary that's supplemented by other sources. At least that's my understanding.

The coaches' salaries are part of the athletic budget and that athletic budget can not come from tax payer money. I don't know that for a fact but feel it's something that I have heard numerous other people mention on these boards when conversations about our budget compared to other schools comes up.

I do see some college coaches on this list FWIW... http://data.richmond.com/salaries/2015/state

For example, UVA FB HC Bronco Mendenhall at $500K, though the remainder of his fat contract comes from other sources. I do not know if this tells us anything or not, btw. Just throwing it out there for discussion/review.

edit note: this is from data in 2015...if you choose James Madison University in the Agency drop down you'll see over $300K to Matt Brady as a Professional Instructor. LOL! Same for Mike Houston at 300K and Kenny Brooks over 200 grand.

Yeah, Dolley has me questioning my original statement. Where does that "base salary" come from? Tuition, student fees, other? I'll wait for Longhorn or some other JMU insider to clarify. : )

(10-26-2017 01:31 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 01:20 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 01:02 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 12:40 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 12:31 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  I didn't think tax payers money could be used for athletics spending?

The coaches make a state-paid salary that's supplemented by other sources. At least that's my understanding.

The coaches' salaries are part of the athletic budget and that athletic budget can not come from tax payer money. I don't know that for a fact but feel it's something that I have heard numerous other people mention on these boards when conversations about our budget compared to other schools comes up.

I do see some college coaches on this list FWIW... http://data.richmond.com/salaries/2015/state

For example, UVA FB HC Bronco Mendenhall at $500K, though the remainder of his fat contract comes from other sources. I do not know if this tells us anything or not, btw. Just throwing it out there for discussion/review.

edit note: this is from data in 2015...if you choose James Madison University in the Agency drop down you'll see over $300K to Matt Brady as a Professional Instructor. LOL! Same for Mike Houston at 300K and Kenny Brooks over 200 grand.

Yeah, Dolley has me questioning my original statement. Where does that "base salary" come from? Tuition, student fees, other? I'll wait for Longhorn or some other JMU insider to clarify. : )

Those so-called base salaries are lines in the state budget under the guise the coach is an instructor of some sort. Then the base is supplemented by other sources...sources that are not tax dollars. Same is true for the Prez.

I was under the impression all athletics salaries were a part of the athletic budget and thus not state money. I assumed that meant every one from the marketing staff, tickets staff, coaches, duke club, etc. So even if Houston's salary has a base salary from the school, and then another amount supplemented from another source (Alpha Dogs, etc), I thought that it still meant 0% coming from state or tax dollars.

(10-26-2017 01:00 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 11:52 AM)JMU_71 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 10:29 AM)2Buck Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 04:09 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 07:04 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  "Less attractive" is for certain, it's the belief we have always been here and will stay forever that is concerning. History doesn't speak well about JMU being any more than a little above average on the gridiron. I love the high and I'm almost certain we will always be a team that must be considered a "need to beat team", but we are far from the dynasty of "three-peat" Appy, the GA Southern and Marshall powerhouse teams, and a good distance from the five-peat NDSU program. Being an equal or "better now" program is great, but holding this spot is not something I am expecting.

Not true on Marshall and App State. If JMU wins the NC this year will make 3 national titles, putting JMU ahead of Marshall’s 2, tied with App State’s 3, and 1 behind YSU’s 4.

Marshall: won 2 NC’s 1992 & 1996.
App State: won 3 straight NCs 2005-2007.
YSU: won 4 NC’s 1991, 1993, 1994, 1997.

Would still be 2 behind NDSU and 3 behind GSU’s 6 they won in the 1980s-2000.

No, BP is correct. App St and Marshall were both dominant for stretches far longer than us. Even Montana. A NC here and there doesn't compare to what those schools did in terms of being a "powerhouse". Now if we win this year and next, we'll be on a level of App St during that run but both Marshall and Montana had a bunch of finals appearances during those stretches. Have we even made it to the semi-finals more than twice? Was 2008 semi-finals?

We've been to the semis 3 times 2004, 2008 and 2016.
We've been to the quarterfinals the above three times and 1991 and 1994.
We've won a playoff game one other year, 2011.
Every other playoff year, we lost our first game: 1987, 1995, 1999, 2006 (hurt), 2007 (hurt more), 2014, 2015

Those two were VERY painful, especially '07. I still have nightmares of that game, including the roar of the grandstand when they realized we just handed them the W.

For me, not making the 2005 playoffs as the 2004 Champion was the most painful of all seasons. Has there been another team who won it all and did not participate the following season? Let's go with something a little recent, it seems like originally there were only four teams.

(10-26-2017 02:39 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 01:00 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 11:52 AM)JMU_71 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 10:29 AM)2Buck Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 04:09 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Not true on Marshall and App State. If JMU wins the NC this year will make 3 national titles, putting JMU ahead of Marshall’s 2, tied with App State’s 3, and 1 behind YSU’s 4.

Marshall: won 2 NC’s 1992 & 1996.
App State: won 3 straight NCs 2005-2007.
YSU: won 4 NC’s 1991, 1993, 1994, 1997.

Would still be 2 behind NDSU and 3 behind GSU’s 6 they won in the 1980s-2000.

No, BP is correct. App St and Marshall were both dominant for stretches far longer than us. Even Montana. A NC here and there doesn't compare to what those schools did in terms of being a "powerhouse". Now if we win this year and next, we'll be on a level of App St during that run but both Marshall and Montana had a bunch of finals appearances during those stretches. Have we even made it to the semi-finals more than twice? Was 2008 semi-finals?

We've been to the semis 3 times 2004, 2008 and 2016.
We've been to the quarterfinals the above three times and 1991 and 1994.
We've won a playoff game one other year, 2011.
Every other playoff year, we lost our first game: 1987, 1995, 1999, 2006 (hurt), 2007 (hurt more), 2014, 2015

Those two were VERY painful, especially '07. I still have nightmares of that game, including the roar of the grandstand when they realized we just handed them the W.

For me, not making the 2005 playoffs as the 2004 Champion was the most painful of all seasons. Has there been another team who won it all and did not participate the following season? Let's go with something a little recent, it seems like originally there were only four teams.

Eastern Washington won it all in 2010, entered 2011 as the preseason #1, then went 6-5 and missed the playoffs.

(10-26-2017 02:11 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  I was under the impression all athletics salaries were a part of the athletic budget and thus not state money. I assumed that meant every one from the marketing staff, tickets staff, coaches, duke club, etc. So even if Houston's salary has a base salary from the school, and then another amount supplemented from another source (Alpha Dogs, etc), I thought that it still meant 0% coming from state or tax dollars.

It's a gray area to be sure. Direct costs associated with supporting varsity athletics (scholarships, equipment, travel, facilities, etc.) would be separate, but coaches (and their base salaries) are often "massaged" as part of the costs in maintaining administrative/institutional control. JB is a state employee for instance, but why do you need an AD if not for varsity sports? Again, its a gray area, but providing base salaries seem to pass muster with the rules in effect.

(10-26-2017 02:48 PM)jmuwyhamhgawd Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 02:39 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 01:00 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 11:52 AM)JMU_71 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 10:29 AM)2Buck Wrote:  No, BP is correct. App St and Marshall were both dominant for stretches far longer than us. Even Montana. A NC here and there doesn't compare to what those schools did in terms of being a "powerhouse". Now if we win this year and next, we'll be on a level of App St during that run but both Marshall and Montana had a bunch of finals appearances during those stretches. Have we even made it to the semi-finals more than twice? Was 2008 semi-finals?

We've been to the semis 3 times 2004, 2008 and 2016.
We've been to the quarterfinals the above three times and 1991 and 1994.
We've won a playoff game one other year, 2011.
Every other playoff year, we lost our first game: 1987, 1995, 1999, 2006 (hurt), 2007 (hurt more), 2014, 2015

Those two were VERY painful, especially '07. I still have nightmares of that game, including the roar of the grandstand when they realized we just handed them the W.

For me, not making the 2005 playoffs as the 2004 Champion was the most painful of all seasons. Has there been another team who won it all and did not participate the following season? Let's go with something a little recent, it seems like originally there were only four teams.

Eastern Washington won it all in 2010, entered 2011 as the preseason #1, then went 6-5 and missed the playoffs.

Well that was quick. I'll bet it sucked for their egos as much as our failure in 2005 did for me. A total let down.

(10-26-2017 02:52 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 02:48 PM)jmuwyhamhgawd Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 02:39 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 01:00 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 11:52 AM)JMU_71 Wrote:  We've been to the semis 3 times 2004, 2008 and 2016.
We've been to the quarterfinals the above three times and 1991 and 1994.
We've won a playoff game one other year, 2011.
Every other playoff year, we lost our first game: 1987, 1995, 1999, 2006 (hurt), 2007 (hurt more), 2014, 2015

Those two were VERY painful, especially '07. I still have nightmares of that game, including the roar of the grandstand when they realized we just handed them the W.

For me, not making the 2005 playoffs as the 2004 Champion was the most painful of all seasons. Has there been another team who won it all and did not participate the following season? Let's go with something a little recent, it seems like originally there were only four teams.

Eastern Washington won it all in 2010, entered 2011 as the preseason #1, then went 6-5 and missed the playoffs.

Well that was quick. I'll bet it sucked for their egos as much as our failure in 2005 did for me. A total let down.

Hahaha didn't know off the top of my head, but was curious as well. And it makes the research easy when 8 of the last like 12 champions or whatever were all App State or NDSU!

(10-26-2017 02:48 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 02:11 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  I was under the impression all athletics salaries were a part of the athletic budget and thus not state money. I assumed that meant every one from the marketing staff, tickets staff, coaches, duke club, etc. So even if Houston's salary has a base salary from the school, and then another amount supplemented from another source (Alpha Dogs, etc), I thought that it still meant 0% coming from state or tax dollars.

It's a gray area to be sure. Direct costs associated with supporting varsity athletics (scholarships, equipment, travel, facilities, etc.) would be separate, but coaches (and their base salaries) are often "massaged" as part of the costs in maintaining administrative/institutional control. JB is a state employee for instance, but why do you need an AD if not for varsity sports? Again, its a gray area, but providing base salaries seem to pass muster with the rules in effect.

This is what I thought but don't know nearly enough to state as fact. My thoughts, if they weren't state employees or weren't getting paid by state funding, you wouldn't see the state mandated "job opening" postings for coaches.

(10-26-2017 10:09 AM)jmu007 Wrote:  I'm hopeful that JMU can keep HCMH at least 1 more season. I'm using NDSU has my historical example. Didn't they keep their 1st HC for the 1st 3 titles?

Craig Bohl left after their third straight title, but he had been there for 11 seasons (2003) and transitioned them from D2 to FCS.

(10-26-2017 02:48 PM)jmuwyhamhgawd Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 02:39 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 01:00 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 11:52 AM)JMU_71 Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 10:29 AM)2Buck Wrote:  No, BP is correct. App St and Marshall were both dominant for stretches far longer than us. Even Montana. A NC here and there doesn't compare to what those schools did in terms of being a "powerhouse". Now if we win this year and next, we'll be on a level of App St during that run but both Marshall and Montana had a bunch of finals appearances during those stretches. Have we even made it to the semi-finals more than twice? Was 2008 semi-finals?

We've been to the semis 3 times 2004, 2008 and 2016.
We've been to the quarterfinals the above three times and 1991 and 1994.
We've won a playoff game one other year, 2011.
Every other playoff year, we lost our first game: 1987, 1995, 1999, 2006 (hurt), 2007 (hurt more), 2014, 2015

Those two were VERY painful, especially '07. I still have nightmares of that game, including the roar of the grandstand when they realized we just handed them the W.

For me, not making the 2005 playoffs as the 2004 Champion was the most painful of all seasons. Has there been another team who won it all and did not participate the following season? Let's go with something a little recent, it seems like originally there were only four teams.

Eastern Washington won it all in 2010, entered 2011 as the preseason #1, then went 6-5 and missed the playoffs.

Thanks to a MEAC chain crew lol...poor UD...

(10-26-2017 08:44 AM)JMUNewbill Wrote:  He's gone after this year or next year at the latest. He seems like a very stand-up, family oriented, all around good person. Him leaving will not be a knock on him as a man or diminish at all his contributions to JMU. However, at the end of the day money talks and he is going to get offers (if he isn't already). Anyone who can sit here and say they wouldn't up and move for a 50% - 100% or more increase in your base salary either works in an industry where most of your pay is incentives or commissions, or you're lying. With how competitive he is and how hard he works, I can almost promise you (obviously don't know him personally) that he has bigger aspirations than FCS football. I feel the same way about his career path that I feel about JMU and FBS football. If he wants to get to the highest level, he has to make progress little by little. He knows he can't go straight to a P5 gig (or an AAC gig for that matter like some of you think JMU can get, although I wouldn't be surprised to see ECU offer him), but if he has aspirations of coaching at a high level FBS school, the next logical step is a lower level FBS school. People can knock Withers for going to Texas State, but at the end of the day he took a chance on himself. I would hope none of you go into life with the assumption that you are going to fail. Withers thought he would be able to turn that program around and further his resume, taking the next step to getting back to a P5 coaching gig. Unfortunately for him, the job isn't getting done. HCMH doesn't seem like someone that lacks in confidence.

Let's enjoy him and his impact on this team while we still have him! And hey, if I'm wrong and he's here for the long haul, good for us!

You might be right about him chasing the $.

Why did Talley stay at Nova? Laycock at W&M? Both had great success and opportunities to move on. Is being happy and fulfilled really just about how much money one can make?

(10-26-2017 09:29 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 08:44 AM)JMUNewbill Wrote:  He's gone after this year or next year at the latest. He seems like a very stand-up, family oriented, all around good person. Him leaving will not be a knock on him as a man or diminish at all his contributions to JMU. However, at the end of the day money talks and he is going to get offers (if he isn't already). Anyone who can sit here and say they wouldn't up and move for a 50% - 100% or more increase in your base salary either works in an industry where most of your pay is incentives or commissions, or you're lying. With how competitive he is and how hard he works, I can almost promise you (obviously don't know him personally) that he has bigger aspirations than FCS football. I feel the same way about his career path that I feel about JMU and FBS football. If he wants to get to the highest level, he has to make progress little by little. He knows he can't go straight to a P5 gig (or an AAC gig for that matter like some of you think JMU can get, although I wouldn't be surprised to see ECU offer him), but if he has aspirations of coaching at a high level FBS school, the next logical step is a lower level FBS school. People can knock Withers for going to Texas State, but at the end of the day he took a chance on himself. I would hope none of you go into life with the assumption that you are going to fail. Withers thought he would be able to turn that program around and further his resume, taking the next step to getting back to a P5 coaching gig. Unfortunately for him, the job isn't getting done. HCMH doesn't seem like someone that lacks in confidence.

Let's enjoy him and his impact on this team while we still have him! And hey, if I'm wrong and he's here for the long haul, good for us!

You might be right about him chasing the $.

Why did Talley stay at Nova? Laycock at W&M? Both had great success and opportunities to move on. Is being happy and fulfilled really just about how much money one can make?

(10-26-2017 09:29 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 08:44 AM)JMUNewbill Wrote:  He's gone after this year or next year at the latest. He seems like a very stand-up, family oriented, all around good person. Him leaving will not be a knock on him as a man or diminish at all his contributions to JMU. However, at the end of the day money talks and he is going to get offers (if he isn't already). Anyone who can sit here and say they wouldn't up and move for a 50% - 100% or more increase in your base salary either works in an industry where most of your pay is incentives or commissions, or you're lying. With how competitive he is and how hard he works, I can almost promise you (obviously don't know him personally) that he has bigger aspirations than FCS football. I feel the same way about his career path that I feel about JMU and FBS football. If he wants to get to the highest level, he has to make progress little by little. He knows he can't go straight to a P5 gig (or an AAC gig for that matter like some of you think JMU can get, although I wouldn't be surprised to see ECU offer him), but if he has aspirations of coaching at a high level FBS school, the next logical step is a lower level FBS school. People can knock Withers for going to Texas State, but at the end of the day he took a chance on himself. I would hope none of you go into life with the assumption that you are going to fail. Withers thought he would be able to turn that program around and further his resume, taking the next step to getting back to a P5 coaching gig. Unfortunately for him, the job isn't getting done. HCMH doesn't seem like someone that lacks in confidence.

Let's enjoy him and his impact on this team while we still have him! And hey, if I'm wrong and he's here for the long haul, good for us!

You might be right about him chasing the $.

Why did Talley stay at Nova? Laycock at W&M? Both had great success and opportunities to move on. Is being happy and fulfilled really just about how much money one can make?

And Withers isn't gonna be making that for long at this rate. He might be a high school assistant next year.

So, I think one of the SEC schools is going to raid Syracuse or BC. I think those are 2 places we should worry about taking HCMH.

Sent from my VS988 using CSNbbs mobile app

(10-28-2017 10:39 PM)olderduke Wrote:  So, I think one of the SEC schools is going to raid Syracuse or BC. I think those are 2 places we should worry about taking HCMH.

Sent from my VS988 using CSNbbs mobile app

I disagree. Houston is a southern guy. He will land somewhere in the south when he leaves us.

(10-28-2017 10:54 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(10-28-2017 10:39 PM)olderduke Wrote:  So, I think one of the SEC schools is going to raid Syracuse or BC. I think those are 2 places we should worry about taking HCMH.

Sent from my VS988 using CSNbbs mobile app

I disagree. Houston is a southern guy. He will land somewhere in the south when he leaves us.

Ok. I'd put a burger and beer on it...

Sent from my VS988 using CSNbbs mobile app