(10-23-2017 08:08 AM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 01:51 AM)MUther Wrote:  Could have ended the war if they'd shut up and sprayed the guys right after they came out the door. Could have ended the war if as soon as Neegan asked about his pants, Gabriel opened fire on the him. Could also have saved himself instead of helping a traitor/coward.

They schemed and planned and built all over the area to prepare for this war, which seemed to take a modicum of intelligence, only to look like total idiots in their execution. It's like when a guy fights 50 walkers one episode and comes out clean and then dies to one the next episode that meanders right up to him.

I've been a supporter of the show the whole time but I'm finally getting fed up with their lack of respect for their audience. I was not impressed with this episode, at all. Rick spent 20 minutes trying to hit Neegan behind armored cover. He talked to him out in the open for 10 minutes. Kill his ass and THEN give his Lt.s a chance to surrender. I'm guessing they aren't all Neegan once they see the actual Neegan with a new ******* where his forehead used to be.

I thought the same thing, but where does the show go if they killed off Neegan.

The comic is still about 50 issues ahead of the show at this point. There is still plenty of material

(10-23-2017 08:08 AM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 01:51 AM)MUther Wrote:  Could have ended the war if they'd shut up and sprayed the guys right after they came out the door. Could have ended the war if as soon as Neegan asked about his pants, Gabriel opened fire on the him. Could also have saved himself instead of helping a traitor/coward.

They schemed and planned and built all over the area to prepare for this war, which seemed to take a modicum of intelligence, only to look like total idiots in their execution. It's like when a guy fights 50 walkers one episode and comes out clean and then dies to one the next episode that meanders right up to him.

I've been a supporter of the show the whole time but I'm finally getting fed up with their lack of respect for their audience. I was not impressed with this episode, at all. Rick spent 20 minutes trying to hit Neegan behind armored cover. He talked to him out in the open for 10 minutes. Kill his ass and THEN give his Lt.s a chance to surrender. I'm guessing they aren't all Neegan once they see the actual Neegan with a new ******* where his forehead used to be.

I thought the same thing, but where does the show go if they killed off Neegan.

I get that. I'm not saying they should have killed Neegan yet. I'm saying they shouldn't have directed the show to a point where it would have been so easy to take him out, then have them try after warning him, and fail. Should have been more cat and mouse. The next confrontation between those two since last season should have ended in one or the other dead.

I would have liked to have seen Neegan losing his composure as they assassinated each of the lookouts posts. Each time someone reports to Neegan they've lost contact with post x, Neegan gets a little more concerned but tries to remain cool. They could have built that up for a couple of episodes then had a showdown for the ages.

We want to see Rick get the better of Neegan for a while. Actually get the upper hand and get to him, get in his head. He's thought he had the upper hand and Neegan was always two steps ahead. I'd rather see a drawn out mind game than the "whose dick is bigger" conversation and a spray of useless bullets.

If they aren't going to do that, when they call him out and the dumb*** comes out, you have a sniper hidden and use the distraction of all the people and vehicles to put him out of their misery. Dwight would have been fine if they used the ol' one shot, one kill.

They tried to have their cake and eat it too and I'm not buying it as a viewer with a pulse.

Maybe Rick doesn't want to kill him yet. Maybe the mind game is to make it so his own people turn on him and actually bring him to Rick. If it goes down that way then the good guys don't have to worry about survivors reorganizing under a different leader. If he just shoots Neegan then the rest will still most likely come after them. I'm sure they like their alpha dog position in the scheme of things and would try to continue under new leadership. Bringing him to Rick acknowledges Rick as the new alpha.

My wife and I simply enjoyed the episode. That simple.

The writing in this show is just bad

Good acting, good audio, good special FX. Bad writing. It's a shame

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(10-23-2017 01:43 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 08:08 AM)SouthernMiss3613 Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 01:51 AM)MUther Wrote:  Could have ended the war if they'd shut up and sprayed the guys right after they came out the door. Could have ended the war if as soon as Neegan asked about his pants, Gabriel opened fire on the him. Could also have saved himself instead of helping a traitor/coward.

They schemed and planned and built all over the area to prepare for this war, which seemed to take a modicum of intelligence, only to look like total idiots in their execution. It's like when a guy fights 50 walkers one episode and comes out clean and then dies to one the next episode that meanders right up to him.

I've been a supporter of the show the whole time but I'm finally getting fed up with their lack of respect for their audience. I was not impressed with this episode, at all. Rick spent 20 minutes trying to hit Neegan behind armored cover. He talked to him out in the open for 10 minutes. Kill his ass and THEN give his Lt.s a chance to surrender. I'm guessing they aren't all Neegan once they see the actual Neegan with a new ******* where his forehead used to be.

I thought the same thing, but where does the show go if they killed off Neegan.

I get that. I'm not saying they should have killed Neegan yet. I'm saying they shouldn't have directed the show to a point where it would have been so easy to take him out, then have them try after warning him, and fail. Should have been more cat and mouse. The next confrontation between those two since last season should have ended in one or the other dead.

I would have liked to have seen Neegan losing his composure as they assassinated each of the lookouts posts. Each time someone reports to Neegan they've lost contact with post x, Neegan gets a little more concerned but tries to remain cool. They could have built that up for a couple of episodes then had a showdown for the ages.

We want to see Rick get the better of Neegan for a while. Actually get the upper hand and get to him, get in his head. He's thought he had the upper hand and Neegan was always two steps ahead. I'd rather see a drawn out mind game than the "whose dick is bigger" conversation and a spray of useless bullets.

If they aren't going to do that, when they call him out and the dumb*** comes out, you have a sniper hidden and use the distraction of all the people and vehicles to put him out of their misery. Dwight would have been fine if they used the ol' one shot, one kill.

They tried to have their cake and eat it too and I'm not buying it as a viewer with a pulse.

I believe in the comic which I've only read accounts of, Negan doesn't die, he's captured by Rick is forced to help Rick fight a new threat but manages to escape, he has not made an appearance in the comic since then.

(10-23-2017 04:02 PM)banker Wrote:  Maybe Rick doesn't want to kill him yet. Maybe the mind game is to make it so his own people turn on him and actually bring him to Rick. If it goes down that way then the good guys don't have to worry about survivors reorganizing under a different leader. If he just shoots Neegan then the rest will still most likely come after them. I'm sure they like their alpha dog position in the scheme of things and would try to continue under new leadership. Bringing him to Rick acknowledges Rick as the new alpha.

That might fly if he hadn't spent 20 minutes of the show trying to hit him with a rifle through some cracks in an old rusty piece of metal. Because at the time it sure looked like he just wanted to shoot Negan. And, in fact, looked like someone got a piece of Negan as he was going down the stairs.

(10-23-2017 04:15 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  My wife and I simply enjoyed the episode. That simple.

It's what I usually say amongst all the criticisms, too. But this time they made it logically unrealistic. I guess the simpler audience will simply enjoy it.

(10-23-2017 07:45 PM)MUther Wrote:  It's what I usually say amongst all the criticisms, too. But this time they made it logically unrealistic. I guess the simpler audience will simply enjoy it.

Did you really just say that about a show set in a universe of animated corpses?

(10-23-2017 08:34 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 07:45 PM)MUther Wrote:  It's what I usually say amongst all the criticisms, too. But this time they made it logically unrealistic. I guess the simpler audience will simply enjoy it.

Did you really just say that about a show set in a universe of animated corpses?

Hence the word "logically." Things still have to make sense in the fantasy world they created. They created a paradox by trying to kill Negan while not trying to kill Negan.

Question: at the end of the episode, when the camera was zooming out, was Negan killing Gabriel? I couldn’t tell if the noise was that, gunfire, or walkers beating on the door.

(10-24-2017 07:27 AM)Blazer4Life14 Wrote:  Question: at the end of the episode, when the camera was zooming out, was Negan killing Gabriel? I couldn’t tell if the noise was that, gunfire, or walkers beating on the door.

Gabriel was not included in the "In Memoriam" segment of The Talking Dead.

(10-23-2017 08:54 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 08:34 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 07:45 PM)MUther Wrote:  It's what I usually say amongst all the criticisms, too. But this time they made it logically unrealistic. I guess the simpler audience will simply enjoy it.

Did you really just say that about a show set in a universe of animated corpses?

Hence the word "logically." Things still have to make sense in the fantasy world they created. They created a paradox by trying to kill Negan while not trying to kill Negan.

I find that you walk a fine line when trying to bring logic to a show based on fantasy. I also found myself questioning how they still have a sufficient supply of fuel (or any at all) this many years into the zombie apocalypse to justify the convoy of vehicles they rode in on. Also, they fought so hard for those guns and ammunition last season, yet now they are just spraying bullets indiscriminately at the saviors camp? Then, I realized it's only a tv show and I was ruining by own enjoyment of it.

(10-24-2017 01:38 PM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 08:54 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 08:34 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 07:45 PM)MUther Wrote:  It's what I usually say amongst all the criticisms, too. But this time they made it logically unrealistic. I guess the simpler audience will simply enjoy it.

Did you really just say that about a show set in a universe of animated corpses?

Hence the word "logically." Things still have to make sense in the fantasy world they created. They created a paradox by trying to kill Negan while not trying to kill Negan.

I find that you walk a fine line when trying to bring logic to a show based on fantasy. I also found myself questioning how they still have a sufficient supply of fuel (or any at all) this many years into the zombie apocalypse to justify the convoy of vehicles they rode in on. Also, they fought so hard for those guns and ammunition last season, yet now they are just spraying bullets indiscriminately at the saviors camp? Then, I realized it's only a tv show and I was ruining by own enjoyment of it.

You can also use logic or plausibility to answer almost everything. For example, why do they have so much gas, guns and bullets?

A. They are still scavenging successfully, similar to how they showed Carl at gas station at beginning.
B. The Kingdom has been unmolested by the saviors this whole time for exchange of food. Ezekiel had been operating under this deal well before being introduced to the show. You can reasonable assume they had a stockpile of gas and guns to fund to revolt, right?

(10-24-2017 02:31 PM)Digi368 Wrote:  

(10-24-2017 01:38 PM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 08:54 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 08:34 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 07:45 PM)MUther Wrote:  It's what I usually say amongst all the criticisms, too. But this time they made it logically unrealistic. I guess the simpler audience will simply enjoy it.

Did you really just say that about a show set in a universe of animated corpses?

Hence the word "logically." Things still have to make sense in the fantasy world they created. They created a paradox by trying to kill Negan while not trying to kill Negan.

I find that you walk a fine line when trying to bring logic to a show based on fantasy. I also found myself questioning how they still have a sufficient supply of fuel (or any at all) this many years into the zombie apocalypse to justify the convoy of vehicles they rode in on. Also, they fought so hard for those guns and ammunition last season, yet now they are just spraying bullets indiscriminately at the saviors camp? Then, I realized it's only a tv show and I was ruining by own enjoyment of it.

You can also use logic or plausibility to answer almost everything. For example, why do they have so much gas, guns and bullets?

A. They are still scavenging successfully, similar to how they showed Carl at gas station at beginning.
B. The Kingdom has been unmolested by the saviors this whole time for exchange of food. Ezekiel had been operating under this deal well before being introduced to the show. You can reasonable assume they had a stockpile of gas and guns to fund to revolt, right?

The really important questions is, Why hasn't Darryl found a bathtub yet?

(10-24-2017 02:31 PM)Digi368 Wrote:  

(10-24-2017 01:38 PM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 08:54 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 08:34 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 07:45 PM)MUther Wrote:  It's what I usually say amongst all the criticisms, too. But this time they made it logically unrealistic. I guess the simpler audience will simply enjoy it.

Did you really just say that about a show set in a universe of animated corpses?

Hence the word "logically." Things still have to make sense in the fantasy world they created. They created a paradox by trying to kill Negan while not trying to kill Negan.

I find that you walk a fine line when trying to bring logic to a show based on fantasy. I also found myself questioning how they still have a sufficient supply of fuel (or any at all) this many years into the zombie apocalypse to justify the convoy of vehicles they rode in on. Also, they fought so hard for those guns and ammunition last season, yet now they are just spraying bullets indiscriminately at the saviors camp? Then, I realized it's only a tv show and I was ruining by own enjoyment of it.

You can also use logic or plausibility to answer almost everything. For example, why do they have so much gas, guns and bullets?

A. They are still scavenging successfully, similar to how they showed Carl at gas station at beginning.
B. The Kingdom has been unmolested by the saviors this whole time for exchange of food. Ezekiel had been operating under this deal well before being introduced to the show. You can reasonable assume they had a stockpile of gas and guns to fund to revolt, right?

Agreed, you can, and maybe that's part of the enjoyment at times. Though sometimes I find it best to let things go without picking through too many of the details.

My bigger point on the gas and guns was that - sure, you could come up with potential ways for them to have the two, but there are limited quantities of both and you are faced with increasing difficulty of obtaining both. For example, if they are scavenging gas then they are having to travel farther and farther away to obtain it, thus making each scavenging run less efficient. Yes, they could relocate their community, but then would have to leave many of their other resources behind. So, in this situation, I would think one would want to conserve both fuel and ammo a little more efficiently than fueling up a convoy and wasting bullets spraying the side of a building.

I appreciate you guys in this thread, saves me from wasting my sunday nights as I stopped watching this show long ago....seems like more people are dropping off now too according to the article i had read about the premier numbers. Good on you guys for sticking it out, i couldn't stomach the awful writing and onslaught of advertisements anymore.

(10-24-2017 03:43 PM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(10-24-2017 02:31 PM)Digi368 Wrote:  

(10-24-2017 01:38 PM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 08:54 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(10-23-2017 08:34 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  Did you really just say that about a show set in a universe of animated corpses?

Hence the word "logically." Things still have to make sense in the fantasy world they created. They created a paradox by trying to kill Negan while not trying to kill Negan.

I find that you walk a fine line when trying to bring logic to a show based on fantasy. I also found myself questioning how they still have a sufficient supply of fuel (or any at all) this many years into the zombie apocalypse to justify the convoy of vehicles they rode in on. Also, they fought so hard for those guns and ammunition last season, yet now they are just spraying bullets indiscriminately at the saviors camp? Then, I realized it's only a tv show and I was ruining by own enjoyment of it.

You can also use logic or plausibility to answer almost everything. For example, why do they have so much gas, guns and bullets?

A. They are still scavenging successfully, similar to how they showed Carl at gas station at beginning.
B. The Kingdom has been unmolested by the saviors this whole time for exchange of food. Ezekiel had been operating under this deal well before being introduced to the show. You can reasonable assume they had a stockpile of gas and guns to fund to revolt, right?

Agreed, you can, and maybe that's part of the enjoyment at times. Though sometimes I find it best to let things go without picking through too many of the details.

My bigger point on the gas and guns was that - sure, you could come up with potential ways for them to have the two, but there are limited quantities of both and you are faced with increasing difficulty of obtaining both. For example, if they are scavenging gas then they are having to travel farther and farther away to obtain it, thus making each scavenging run less efficient. Yes, they could relocate their community, but then would have to leave many of their other resources behind. So, in this situation, I would think one would want to conserve both fuel and ammo a little more efficiently than fueling up a convoy and wasting bullets spraying the side of a building.

No doubt. I try not to pick TV/Movies apart because you can find flaws in almost anything. Most Hospital shows are extremely unrealistic, most war movies are highly inaccurate etc. If you enjoy the story just go with it.

The Ammo debate should be a non-issue going forward for anyone that controls Eugene since he can magically make infinite ammunition.

I've always wondered how the post-apocalyptic world did not include bicycles.

(10-24-2017 07:13 PM)Quagmire Wrote:  I've always wondered how the post-apocalytic world did not include bicycles.

Episode 1 had Rick on a bicycle. Haven't seen one since.