Thread title Wrote:William & Mary to the Patriot?

No.

Don't mean to be a jerk ... but there wasn't even a link in the OP. Why did this thread need to be started, simply to throw a random question against the wall?

I guess I could start threads titled "Georgia State to the AAC?" or "Missouri State to the Sun Belt?" with no links too ...

(08-08-2017 08:15 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Don't mean to be a jerk ... but there wasn't even a link in the OP. Why did this thread need to be started, simply to throw a random question against the wall?

I guess I could start threads titled "Georgia State to the AAC?" or "Missouri State to the Sun Belt?" with no links too ...

Sorry. I figured since the tread title ended in a question mark it was conjecture as opposed to stating a fact. I merely wanted to mull over the possibility to gauge what fans and locals thought. There are a myriad of other "what if" and "would this school be better off in in that conference" type threads on here and to me the realignment board is the place for that type of discussion.

To me a link is only appropriate and necessary if you're trying to announce that there's a source out there that says there are serious talks going on between a school and a conference.

It's fine.

I was just a bit disappointed, because this rumor has been on DI-AA/FCS message boards for a long, long time ... with nothing ever materializing.

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason why W&M didn't join the ACC in 1953? The school did play several bowl games in the late 1940s and is just as small as Duke and Wake Forest.

Guessing it simply wasn't invited. Neither were: West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Washington and Lee, VMI, George Washington, Richmond, Citadel, Furman, and Davidson.

Taking a wild guess that the large public schools didn't want smaller, in-state rivals in the new ACC.


There is some old history, and bad blood, regarding ACC schools and W Virginia. I may be remembering it incorrectly, but it might be possible that WVU's addition to the SoCon in 1950 is what got the ball rolling for Maryland, Clemson, SC, UNC, NC St, Duke, and Wake to form the ACC in 1953 along with (then independent) Virginia, in the first place.

In reading this thread, and one of the links to it, I uncovered something very interesting. What was interesting was, despite having interest from the Patriot League, Villanova opted to turn down the Patriot League's offer. Hmm.

The Patriot League did not allow athletic scholarships in football until very recently. They finally caved to the pressure of being uncompetitive with the other scholarship FCS conferences.

(08-07-2017 07:02 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  I know schools have to have somewhere to go, but if James Madison leaves the CAA, the CAA will have a bit of a problem on its hands.

Yup. It will tear apart that conference. Or, it will destroy CAAF.

(08-08-2017 02:05 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(08-07-2017 07:02 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  I know schools have to have somewhere to go, but if James Madison leaves the CAA, the CAA will have a bit of a problem on its hands.

Yup. It will tear apart that conference. Or, it will destroy CAAF.

I don't see it. The CAA survived the losses of VCU, ODU, George Mason and Georgia State from their all-sports roster and ODU, Georgia State and UMass from the football conference in the past five years. Losing JMU would obviously hurt and I don't think there's any reasonable options that would be an improvement or even a straight-across trade, but I think they'd be OK. Probably some combination of a football-only member (Monmouth?) and a non-football all-sports member (UNC Greensboro? High Point? UMBC?). Or maybe they finally give Hampton the rose. Worst-case scenario, they don't fill the spot and let it ride with nine all-sports and 11 football members for the near-term.

with CAA looking south
American East should go after Hofstra & Noortheastern

(08-08-2017 04:00 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  with CAA looking south
American East should go after Hofstra & Noortheastern

For as much as Hofstra has blocked Stony Brook and Albany from the CAA, I do not see them embracing Hofstra in America East. And Northeastern would be a private outlier in a mostly public conference. They'd be a weird fit. I don't see either school leaving the CAA unless the A-10 or possibly the Patriot came calling.

that would be my point
20 win P5 schools are being left out NCAA's
i expect auto-bids drop to 30, 2 conf will fold
A-Sun & WAC would be obvious, AE has schools other conf want
A-10, CAA & Patriot will be looking for NY/NE schools
Hofstra & NE joining AE takes CAA out of picture

Cyniclone, how about Youngstown St?

There have been some message board discussion in past of "shipping them off" to an eastern conf.

(08-08-2017 04:00 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  with CAA looking south
American East should go after Hofstra & Northeastern

temple-- Think for a bit about what the profile of the CAA is for a sec. It used to be based on a Virginia-centric footprint but then when they were looking to attract tv eyeballs the expanded both in the north and south. Now that that Viginia base has eroded they are left with a bunch of northern schools and southern schools who feel like they are too good for their regional leagues.

Elon, Charleston, and UNC Wilmington all think they are too good for the SoCon and Big South.

Northeastern, Drexel, Hofstra, and Delaware all think they are too food for the America East and MAAC.

I think it would take something cataclysmic for one of the wings to bail. In the last round of alignment they were almost there. I think had JMU gone FBS it would have been enough. William & Mary departs for the Patriot, taking Richmond football with it. UNC Wilmington would have shopped for a southern league, hoping for the SoCon but possibly falling to the Big South. Northeastern, Hoftstra, Drexel, Delaware, and Towson would have either gone to America East or brought a substantial chunk of that league into the CAA (and Maybe a Fairfield also).

(08-08-2017 11:22 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  It's fine.

I was just a bit disappointed, because this rumor has been on DI-AA/FCS message boards for a long, long time ... with nothing ever materializing.

I think the possibility of it happening will persist though. Aside from a 3 school southern wing in the CAA both leagues have similar footprints--the Patriot schools just have vastly superior academics and endowments. Loyola, American, and Navy would be attractive regional opponents.

It's hard to figure out why this was thread even started (Muskie). There has been no consideration from either party for nearly five years. When it did come up - and the current Prez at W&M addressed it - his comment was the schools in the PL look more like each other than we look like any of them.

Second, anyone who knows WM would realize we would be crazy to leave a football conference with Richmond, Delaware, JMU and Villanova. They have been the schools biggest rivals in football over the last 30 years. All are within a 4 hour drive. All create sellouts or very close. The closest PL football team other than Georgetown is about 5 hours away (Lafayette or Lehigh) - and it's hard to argue Georgetown is even serious about football. Would rather go to Elon, at least they have fans and a stadium.

Of course you have the "CAA will implode" club whose lurkers have been predicting incorrectly the leagues demise for years. The league is actually quite strong today.

May also be of note that W&M was actually a founding member of the Colonial League in 1984(?) when 1AA was created - which quickly morphed into the Patriot. The new league joined Colgate and Holy Cross, two of the bigger football names that were dropped down at the time along with W&M. W&M left when the league announced they would not allow scholarships or postseason play. At the same time, UR, JMU and Delaware were trying to create an alliance with W&M as part of the deal. It was a decision that led to the CAA and a direction that solidified W&Ms position now.

Fwiw, Charleston and Elon were great adds for the CAA. Both schools pull and try to pull entering students from the Northeast. Both schools wanted to expand their name in the northeast, an area rich with kids looking for affordable schools. They also gave UNCW two nearby rivals. I would have to check a map but Elon may now well be W&Ms closest all sports rival in the CAA. It's actually a more clustered league than many think - the longest distance between two members is Boston to Charleston. Not sure but would bet it might be one of the tighter leagues geographically in the country.

(08-08-2017 12:28 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Just out of curiosity, is there a reason why W&M didn't join the ACC in 1953? The school did play several bowl games in the late 1940s and is just as small as Duke and Wake Forest.

W&M was competitive (in all sports) with the big VA/NC state schools in the late forties, early fifties. Then W&M got embroiled in an academic/athletic scandal and de-emphasized sports, especially football. That happened in '51 or '52, right before the ACC formed. That was probably part of it; more of it was probably the big schools just not wanting to play at little W&M. The Tribe (Indians back then) played basketball in a small rat-trap called Blow Gym and the fans could pound their feet on the section above the rims and actually make the rims rock. When Lefty Driesell left Davidson for Maryland he said that the best thing about the move was that he would never again have to play in Blow Gym. Lastly, concerning football, after the administration de-emphasized athletics, most of the good football players transferred. There were only about 22-23 players left. They still played that year (won 2-3 games, I believe) and became known as the Iron Indians.

Frankly, with what has happened to big-time college sports, not being in the ACC could have been the best thing to happen to W&M.

Sitting bull, you think the CAA would have any interest in Youngstown St?

yo dude, Youngstown St is in Horizon & MVCF foreever