(08-03-2017 04:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  BYU (obviously)
UConn
New Mexico
Boise (Big 12 only)
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
ECU (football-only)

None of those teams belong. Just like many teams who are in the P5 right now don't belong there.

(08-03-2017 07:03 AM)goofus Wrote:  P5 is like a club or a fraternity. All you need is that one black ball when all the balls are counted to keep you out.

BYU - if it was only about attendence, or football history, they would be in already. But cultural reasons keep them out.

Uconn - strong basketball brand, decent academics, no other P5 program in state with decent population. Not a strong football history without a strong following. Not great football attendence but not awful. Add it up, they would be a good fit for the ACC. Probably should be in P5.

New Mexico - good basketball, decent academics. No other P5 in the state. Low but growing population. Awful football program. Football is the main thing holding New Mexico back from being a P5.

Boise - academics is the main thing keeeping BSU from being a P5.

Houston - decent enough sports history and academics, although football attendence and fanbase is not great. Main problem is the state of Texas already has 5 P5 teams.

Memphis - good basketball, but football was down until recently. It does not help that Tennesse already has 2 P5 teams, and NFL, NBA znd NHL teams. But ultimately academics are keeping Memphis out.

Cincy - decent basketball. Decent academics. Not great football attendence. Have to share Ohio with OSU, which meams it will never join Big Ten. And share the city with the Bengals and Reds. Good candidate for ACC or Big 12.

UCF & USF - big schools in high population state. But both are fairly new FBS programs. Alumni base will grow over the years, which means their case will grow over time. Probably locked out of SEC and ACC because existing P5 schools in the state of Florida. Good candidates for Big 12. Just too new to FBS to join the P5 right now.

ECU -academics, geography will keep ECU out of the P5.

Does Vanderbilt really count lol......

(08-03-2017 12:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  UConn - State flagship. Solid academics. Elite basketball program. NYC presence. If Edsall can get football back to being just competitive (not even elite in the AAC), their stock goes up considerably - and they are, arguably, one of the top choices at the moment. While their Northeast location limits options (No PAC or SEC), it will be continued to be mentioned in connection with the ACC, Big 12 and - to a lesser extent - B1G.

Cincinnati - Ohio market. Strong football. Strong basketball. Strong Academics. They have also shown willingness to invest heavily into athletics. B1G will never be an option, but the Big 12 and ACC will be (long-term).

Houston - Athletics has really turned around in recent years, due to large financial commitments to football and basketball. The Big 12, ACC and PAC are possible power conferences that could want the Houston market, which also has strong academics. Unfortunately, politics have kept them out.

Don't think the ACC can realistically look at any of these teams. Florida St and Clemson, among others, will simply have too much power to block schools that don't help increase football competitiveness against the SEC -- that's what they'll claim, anyway.

UConn is a fringe Big Ten candidate. I think makes perfect sense for the Big Ten, in exactly the same way that Maryland and Rutgers did, but we'll see.

Houston I suppose is a fringe PAC candidate, but I don't agree that PAC would be interested in Texas or Okla schools without U of Texas included.


That pretty much leaves the Big 12 as these schools best/only hope. And that just happened last year .... politics prevented it. U of Texas + Texas governor said that Houston had to be included, and the Big 8 schools cried and screamed about another Texas school stealing Texas high school recruits away from them. Dead in the water.

(08-03-2017 12:35 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Just like many teams who are in the P5 right not don't belong there.

Other than Notre Dame, being in a P5 conference is the sole thing that determines if you're P5 or not. "Don't belong there" isn't a thing.

Too bad

(08-03-2017 04:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  BYU (obviously)
UConn
New Mexico
Boise (Big 12 only)
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
ECU (football-only)

Good grief!! You know this is a loaded question, right? IMO, all of the G5 belongs in the P5. That's my honest, personal opinion. Yes, even the MAC & SunBelt teams belong.

(08-03-2017 12:43 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 12:35 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Just like many teams who are in the P5 right not don't belong there.

Other than Notre Dame, being in a P5 conference is the sole thing that determines if you're P5 or not. "Don't belong there" isn't a thing.

Too bad

Yeah, unfortunately this is correct. For example, when is the last time Oregon State made a national championship run in college football?

Well, unless you're advocating for a full-on, NFL minor league, nationwide structure ... Oregon St is never going to get kicked out of the PAC.

As long as the major conferences run college football, which they do today, then this is the way it is.

BYU only

Take out the "sports" aspect of it because there are plenty of current P5 schools that don't pass the muster. However, if you were to go by the smell and looks like P5 test then that changes things a bit. I'm talking about walking around campus, looking at community support/student support/alumni support, academic ranking, graduate placement % etc.


New Mexico
Colorado State
BYU
UCONN
UNLV
Boise
Fresno
SDSU
Cinci
Houston
Memphis
UCF
USF
Air Force
Navy
Army

Tweeners:

SMU
Rice
ECU
Temple

Not even close/not even up for discussion:

All of CUSA but Rice
All of the MAC
All of Sun Belt
Tulsa
Tulane
Utah State
Wyoming
San Jose St
NMSU
Idaho

UConn
Cincinnati
ECU
UCF
USF
Memphis
Houston
SMU
Boise State
Air Force
Army
Navy

(08-03-2017 12:43 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 12:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  UConn - State flagship. Solid academics. Elite basketball program. NYC presence. If Edsall can get football back to being just competitive (not even elite in the AAC), their stock goes up considerably - and they are, arguably, one of the top choices at the moment. While their Northeast location limits options (No PAC or SEC), it will be continued to be mentioned in connection with the ACC, Big 12 and - to a lesser extent - B1G.

Cincinnati - Ohio market. Strong football. Strong basketball. Strong Academics. They have also shown willingness to invest heavily into athletics. B1G will never be an option, but the Big 12 and ACC will be (long-term).

Houston - Athletics has really turned around in recent years, due to large financial commitments to football and basketball. The Big 12, ACC and PAC are possible power conferences that could want the Houston market, which also has strong academics. Unfortunately, politics have kept them out.

Don't think the ACC can realistically look at any of these teams. Florida St and Clemson, among others, will simply have too much power to block schools that don't help increase football competitiveness against the SEC -- that's what they'll claim, anyway.

UConn is a fringe Big Ten candidate. I think makes perfect sense for the Big Ten, in exactly the same way that Maryland and Rutgers did, but we'll see.

Houston I suppose is a fringe PAC candidate, but I don't agree that PAC would be interested in Texas or Okla schools without U of Texas included.


That pretty much leaves the Big 12 as these schools best/only hope. And that just happened last year .... politics prevented it. U of Texas + Texas governor said that Houston had to be included, and the Big 8 schools cried and screamed about another Texas school stealing Texas high school recruits away from them. Dead in the water.

Agreed on the ACC. I would also add that the B1G won't add UConn, either. From all the trends, demographics, and programs, the B1G appears to want to head south (Virginia, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech, Texas, etc.). UConn would only add another weak East coast football program (Rutgers/Maryland), and doesn't really add a new TV market.

Best way to look at it is this way. What schools would a P5 conference consider taking if they had to expand and could not take any other P5 programs;

BIG TEN: Buffalo, UConn
ACC: Temple, Navy, Cincinnati, UConn, UCF, USF
BIG 12: Houston, SMU, Rice, New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado St, BYU, Boise State, ECU, Cincinnati, UConn, UCF, USF, Temple
PAC-12: Rice, Houston, New Mexico, Hawaii, Tulsa
SEC: ECU, UCF, USF, SMU, ODU

(08-03-2017 01:16 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Agreed on the ACC. I would also add that the B1G won't add UConn, either. From all the trends, demographics, and programs, the B1G appears to want to head south (Virginia, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech, Texas, etc.). UConn would only add another weak East coast football program (Rutgers/Maryland), and doesn't really add a new TV market.

Adding a weak East football program is the point ... there are already three blue bloods in the East division (Mich, OSU, PSU) and a fourth that was capable of going to the CFP not too long ago (Mich St). Those programs needs fodder to feed on during the regular season, just like what Maryland and Rutgers provide. Having one of the divisions be like the current SEC West would be a huge mistake.

And CT has plenty of cable networks that don't include BTN on the basic tier (with ESPN), which would be added if UConn was added.


That said, at best UConn is still only a fringe candidate for the Big Ten. Their first choice would be ACC schools ... but that won't happen for a very long time, if ever.

(08-03-2017 01:19 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Best way to look at it is this way. What schools would a P5 conference consider taking if they had to expand and could not take any other P5 programs;

BIG TEN: Buffalo, UConn

I've said before that SUNY Buffalo, being the closest thing that there is to a New York State, makes sense for the Big Ten as a school. Unfortunately, the athletic dept just isn't there ...

(08-03-2017 11:28 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 04:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  BYU (obviously)
UConn
New Mexico
Boise (Big 12 only)
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
ECU (football-only)

You omitted USF but added New Mexico, Memphis, and ECU? LOLOL.

OK. New Mexico over 21st ranked USF Football (and by the way, the current #1 in the G5 in football recruiting - tied with Houston, good for #28 nationally).

New Mexico is a state flagship with some decent resources. ECU has better, more unconditional support than USF. USF plays at an NFL stadium, still pretending to be big time and I purposefully omitted them (for that and playing in an NFL market). Get an OCS.

Technically, Memphis is not in an OCS but close enough. It's not an NFL market and they've shown they can draw big crowds. Also, they have amazing basketball support.

(08-03-2017 01:16 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 12:43 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 12:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  UConn - State flagship. Solid academics. Elite basketball program. NYC presence. If Edsall can get football back to being just competitive (not even elite in the AAC), their stock goes up considerably - and they are, arguably, one of the top choices at the moment. While their Northeast location limits options (No PAC or SEC), it will be continued to be mentioned in connection with the ACC, Big 12 and - to a lesser extent - B1G.

Cincinnati - Ohio market. Strong football. Strong basketball. Strong Academics. They have also shown willingness to invest heavily into athletics. B1G will never be an option, but the Big 12 and ACC will be (long-term).

Houston - Athletics has really turned around in recent years, due to large financial commitments to football and basketball. The Big 12, ACC and PAC are possible power conferences that could want the Houston market, which also has strong academics. Unfortunately, politics have kept them out.

Don't think the ACC can realistically look at any of these teams. Florida St and Clemson, among others, will simply have too much power to block schools that don't help increase football competitiveness against the SEC -- that's what they'll claim, anyway.

UConn is a fringe Big Ten candidate. I think makes perfect sense for the Big Ten, in exactly the same way that Maryland and Rutgers did, but we'll see.

Houston I suppose is a fringe PAC candidate, but I don't agree that PAC would be interested in Texas or Okla schools without U of Texas included.


That pretty much leaves the Big 12 as these schools best/only hope. And that just happened last year .... politics prevented it. U of Texas + Texas governor said that Houston had to be included, and the Big 8 schools cried and screamed about another Texas school stealing Texas high school recruits away from them. Dead in the water.

Agreed on the ACC. I would also add that the B1G won't add UConn, either. From all the trends, demographics, and programs, the B1G appears to want to head south (Virginia, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech, Texas, etc.). UConn would only add another weak East coast football program (Rutgers/Maryland), and doesn't really add a new TV market.

Hartford/New Haven is the 30th largest TV market. If the BIG wants says we're not gonna add UConn cause we're holding out for UVA or UNC I can understand that. If they say we already have the the Hartford/NH market, I'd say they're wrong.

1. ND
2. BYU
3. Cincinnati/Houston

Notre Dame doesn't count, I don't know why they keep getting brought up.

(08-03-2017 01:45 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  New Mexico is a state flagship with some decent resources.

Have you ever seen the UNM campus?

I wouldn't call it a dump but it compares to the richer and/or larger high school districts in Texas instead of a P5 school.

Small and nice for its size but far from something just waiting to turn the "corner" so to speak.

I think the Berry Center in Cypress is bigger than their stadium. At least it looked like it when I saw it this past March.

Edit: Looking it up though Berry seats 11k and UNM seats 39k. I just wasn't impressed by it but that's just me..... Seems much smaller than the 39k advertised.

UNM Stadium



Berry Center



Now their basketball area looked nice from what I saw but I didn't get a chance to go in. That said if basketball in a flyover state pulled the strings many other schools would be on the list.

I will play for football, only four teams in my book if teams where to be added in the next 3 years with the tradition and records.

BYU
Houston
Cinci
Boise