(08-03-2017 11:30 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 07:03 AM)goofus Wrote:  P5 is like a club or a fraternity. All you need is that one black ball when all the balls are counted to keep you out.

BYU - if it was only about attendence, or football history, they would be in already. But cultural reasons keep them out.

Uconn - strong basketball brand, decent academics, no other P5 program in state with decent population. Not a strong football history without a strong following. Not great football attendence but not awful. Add it up, they would be a good fit for the ACC. Probably should be in P5.

New Mexico - good basketball, decent academics. No other P5 in the state. Low but growing population. Awful football program. Football is the main thing holding New Mexico back from being a P5.

Boise - academics is the main thing keeeping BSU from being a P5.

Houston - decent enough sports history and academics, although football attendence and fanbase is not great. Main problem is the state of Texas already has 5 P5 teams.

Memphis - good basketball, but football was down until recently. It does not help that Tennesse already has 2 P5 teams, and NFL, NBA znd NHL teams. But ultimately academics are keeping Memphis out.

Cincy - decent basketball. Decent academics. Not great football attendence. Have to share Ohio with OSU, which meams it will never join Big Ten. And share the city with the Bengals and Reds. Good candidate for ACC or Big 12.

UCF & USF - big schools in high population state. But both are fairly new FBS programs. Alumni base will grow over the years, which means their case will grow over time. Probably locked out of SEC and ACC because existing P5 schools in the state of Florida. Good candidates for Big 12. Just too new to FBS to join the P5 right now.

ECU -academics, geography will keep ECU out of the P5.

USF was already IN the power league structure for almost a decade. So no, both are not too new.

Separately, I think a lot of people seem to gloss over the fact that UConn has an even younger FBS program than all of those schools. I believe this is a highly under-reported reason as to why UConn isn't in a P5 league right now (even more than their actual football performance and attendance). From the perspective of the P5, UConn's football history began in 2002 (with all of those FCS years before that time not counting)... and that's a significant issue for a group that prizes blue blood tradition and prestige as a gate keeper. Unfortunately, nothing can change that factor outside of time. The P5 wants "old school" brand names even with its lower dregs.

If you're going by pure realignment metrics (football brand, TV value, market competition, fan base, academics, prestige), then BYU and Cincinnati have long been the two most likely move-up candidates, although factors such as political forces can curtail a school like BYU and could be a good thing or bad thing depending upon the situation for a school with a lot of in-state P5 brethren like Houston. There's no one as strong as Louisville (who literally received the last life raft out of the G5) without any political baggage.

(08-03-2017 02:06 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 01:45 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  New Mexico is a state flagship with some decent resources.

Have you ever seen the UNM campus?

I wouldn't call it a dump but it compares to the richer and/or larger high school districts in Texas instead of a P5 school.

Small and nice for its size but far from something just waiting to turn the "corner" so to speak.

I think the Berry Center in Cypress is bigger than their stadium. At least it looked like it when I saw it this past March.

Edit: Looking it up though Berry seats 11k and UNM seats 39k. I just wasn't impressed by it but that's just me..... Seems much smaller than the 39k advertised.

UNM Stadium



Berry Center



Now their basketball area looked nice from what I saw but I didn't get a chance to go in. That said if basketball in a flyover state pulled the strings many other schools would be on the list.

Seeing how my brother was on the UNM football team and I've been in/near the stadium, yes I've been to and am familiar with Loboland. The football stadium definitely leaves something to be desired for an aspiring program but otherwise UNM has all the ingredients of a P5 program. They just happen to be in the wrong part of the country, if they were in the Pacific West or Midwest, they'd be P5.

(08-03-2017 02:04 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Notre Dame doesn't count, I don't know why they keep getting brought up.

It keeps getting brought up because a large number of posters believe that it should count, and they/we are ignoring your arbitrary rule.

How the hell is it arbitrary? It's like trying to argue that Super Wal-Mart shouldn't be grouped with grocery stores. Technically, it's not but by then you're missing the point.

That and they are a P5 school, playing in the ACC, even to a large degree in football.

(08-03-2017 02:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 02:04 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Notre Dame doesn't count, I don't know why they keep getting brought up.

It keeps getting brought up because a large number of posters believe that it should count, and they/we are ignoring your arbitrary rule.

Doesn't Notre Dame get considered P5 by the Cartel? I thought they had P5 voting rights and everything.

(08-03-2017 03:05 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  That and they are a P5 school, playing in the ACC, even to a large degree in football.

On this point, I agree with you. Notre Dame is absolutely a P5 school both formally and informally. They are formally part of the power structure along with the rest of the P5 in managing the CFP system, they have a contract bowl arrangement with the Orange Bowl unlike the G5, they are part of the "high resource" group of schools under the NCAA that matches the membership of the P5, and all of their non-football sports are in a P5 conference. P5 = "power school", and Notre Dame is arguably the most powerful school of them all. ND isn't in a conference for football because it chooses not to be -- every single P5 league would add them as a full member without even blinking. That's quite different than the G5 schools and other independents, who can't get an invite no matter how hard they try.

P5/G5 was coined by the CFP. Notre Dame is an owner of the CFP. Their president sits on its executive board.

Notre Dame is in the P5. There isn't an argument to be had, about that.

(08-03-2017 04:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  BYU (obviously)
UConn
New Mexico
Boise (Big 12 only)
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
ECU (football-only)

Only BYU for certainly. Teams up to debate include

Cincinnati
UConn
Boise State
Navy

Remote chance:

USF
Houston

Teams just slipped out of consideration

ECU
UCF

(08-03-2017 03:05 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  That and they are a P5 school, playing in the ACC, even to a large degree in football.

P5 is a football term. They aren't in one of the 5 Power 5 conferences in football.

Yes, they have a scheduling agreement in football, and that's close to a membership, but close counts in hand grenades and horse shoes.

(08-03-2017 03:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 04:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  BYU (obviously)
UConn
New Mexico
Boise (Big 12 only)
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
ECU (football-only)

Only BYU for certainly. Teams up to debate include

Cincinnati
UConn
Boise State
Navy

Remote chance:

USF
Houston

Teams just slipped out of consideration

ECU
UCF

Navy, nor any other service academy belong in the P5

Nor do they really want to be in the P5.

That is your opinion. In my opinion, the academies -- and their respective branches of military overall -- would be far better served by recruiting high level players and giving them a "get out of jail free card" from having to serve, if they choose.

Another question might be: Who's in the P5 that doesn't belong there?

(08-03-2017 04:37 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Another question might be: Who's in the P5 that doesn't belong there?

Great Question!

To answer it, look for a combination of weak athletics and academics, plus a smaller school with a smaller number of living alumni.

(08-03-2017 04:37 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Another question might be: Who's in the P5 that doesn't belong there?

In the B12 that does not belong in the P5 Baylor,TCU,Iowa St,Kansas St

When you're a fan of a non cartel team, you think we are better at certain aspects that a cartel school, so we say "why not us?" And there are obviously flaws for each non P5 schools, but it sucks for us.

(08-03-2017 03:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 04:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  BYU (obviously)
UConn
New Mexico
Boise (Big 12 only)
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
ECU (football-only)

Only BYU for certainly. Teams up to debate include

Cincinnati
UConn
Boise State
Navy

Remote chance:

USF
Houston

Teams just slipped out of consideration

ECU
UCF

Boise State didn't even make the first cut in Big 12 expansion plans. USF, Houston, and UCF did. What does that tell you.

(08-03-2017 03:59 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 03:05 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  That and they are a P5 school, playing in the ACC, even to a large degree in football.

P5 is a football term. They aren't in one of the 5 Power 5 conferences in football.

Yes, they have a scheduling agreement in football, and that's close to a membership, but close counts in hand grenades and horse shoes.

Jesus Christ, why am I still going back and forth? Save all that energy for useless debate by going to law school and being a lawyer.

(08-03-2017 02:55 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 02:06 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(08-03-2017 01:45 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  New Mexico is a state flagship with some decent resources.

Have you ever seen the UNM campus?

I wouldn't call it a dump but it compares to the richer and/or larger high school districts in Texas instead of a P5 school.

Small and nice for its size but far from something just waiting to turn the "corner" so to speak.

I think the Berry Center in Cypress is bigger than their stadium. At least it looked like it when I saw it this past March.

Edit: Looking it up though Berry seats 11k and UNM seats 39k. I just wasn't impressed by it but that's just me..... Seems much smaller than the 39k advertised.

UNM Stadium



Berry Center



Now their basketball area looked nice from what I saw but I didn't get a chance to go in. That said if basketball in a flyover state pulled the strings many other schools would be on the list.

Seeing how my brother was on the UNM football team and I've been in/near the stadium, yes I've been to and am familiar with Loboland. The football stadium definitely leaves something to be desired for an aspiring program but otherwise UNM has all the ingredients of a P5 program. They just happen to be in the wrong part of the country, if they were in the Pacific West or Midwest, they'd be P5.

OK, at least we now know what the bias is and why you added them to your list.

UNM is a total non starter for P5 expansion. Total and complete non starter, but carry on.