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I don't think attrition with recruited athletes is as bad a thing as it appears at first blush. Keep in mind, when an athlete leaves, for whatever reason, he is replaced by another, because the school has that scholarship to use on a new kid now. Most kids leave because they are dissatisfied with playing time, the coaches, the school, or something else which effectively is making that kid a non-contributor on the field. Sometimes they just are not good enough to play at that level, and want to move to a lower level so they can enjoy the game. Occasionally they just hate college and the academics, or miss home. In all of these situations what would you rather have, a kid using a scholarship who will never help the team on the field, and may add bad chemistry in and out of the locker room, or being able to fill that scholarship spot with another (presumably better) athlete? Very few of those kids who are tearing it up on the field for the Broncos leave (in football at least; we have had a problem with great players leaving the basketball team). Essentially, losing a player to "attrition" is a Mulligan for the coach, and is a natural way of reloading. Indeed, I suspect most coaches would love it if a lot of their nonproductive players decided to leave the school on their own.

(07-15-2017 05:35 AM)brovol Wrote:  I don't think attrition with recruited athletes is as bad a thing as it appears at first blush. Keep in mind, when an athlete leaves, for whatever reason, he is replaced by another, because the school has that scholarship to use on a new kid now. Most kids leave because they are dissatisfied with playing time, the coaches, the school, or something else which effectively is making that kid a non-contributor on the field. Sometimes they just are not good enough to play at that level, and want to move to a lower level so they can enjoy the game. Occasionally they just hate college and the academics, or miss home. In all of these situations what would you rather have, a kid using a scholarship who will never help the team on the field, and may add bad chemistry in and out of the locker room, or being able to fill that scholarship spot with another (presumably better) athlete? Very few of those kids who are tearing it up on the field for the Broncos leave (in football at least; we have had a problem with great players leaving the basketball team). Essentially, losing a player to "attrition" is a Mulligan for the coach, and is a natural way of reloading. Indeed, I suspect most coaches would love it if a lot of their nonproductive players decided to leave the school on their own.

Well stated Brovol. Some players don't make it or don't fit into the flow or for some other good and worthy reason there is a decision to move on. At the same time the rate at which this occurs does reflect on the coach and recruiting staff. Simply put, they are the ones who brought the player into the fold. And if it proves out the player does not actually fit in, that is not just on the player. Sure it happens all the time, but the rate is not the same for all teams.

Speaking of, I saw that Matt Buskirk passed away this week. Rest In Peace.

(07-14-2017 08:41 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 05:53 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Yup, a shame nobody stayed... Okorafor, Keenoy, Wassink, Flacco, Franklin, Bogan, Curtis, Watson, Bellamy, Matich, Spillane, Assoua, Tranquill... if only they stayed... oh wait....

You guys are missing the over arching point... PJ's classes overcame some significant attrition and still brought us huge returns.

Maybe my tongue and cheek comment went right over your head, but that's exactly the point I was making when I said, "Yeah, if only they'd stayed maybe we would've been better."

It's extremely ridiculous to use attrition as a knock on Fleck. Especially when there's plenty of other material.

(07-14-2017 08:46 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  You have to take some risks to get premier talent to a MAC school. Corey Davis was a huge gamble by PJ. Some of those gambles won't pan out. I'm willing to have some swings & misses in order to hit the HR.

Exactly.

(07-14-2017 09:30 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  I was browsing rosters today and I looked at the number of seniors on each roster. This is a good indicator of experience, and what the drop-off in experience is going to be for the following season.

WMU only has 13 seniors, and that's including a grad transfer.

Toledo has 25 seniors, including Thompson, Woodside, Swanson, Woodley, Nkansah and more. If they can't win the MAC this year...it aint happening in the foreseeable future.

CMU has 23 seniors, which includes their entire starting O-line and secondary. Same as with Toledo, if CMU doesn't get to the MACC, it won't happen under Bono.

EMU - 18
Ball State -12
NIU -19

Akron leads the MAC East and the entire MAC with 26.

We are going to open at USC and MSU and try to win the MAC again with only 13 seniors, none of whom is a QB.

I've spoke to a mom of an injured player who rehabbed and was ready to come back. The kid had been through hell from a debilitating illness. He loved being here.

So what did Peej do? Told him he should transfer.

Couldn't he have come up with a clownish PR stunt, like doing an onside kick with a note attached that said, "Glad you didn't die. Welcome back, and keep rowing!"

What a special man. I miss him so

Quote:Kentucky, Rutgers, and Army are all winnable games if EMU is halfway decent.

I agree. Kentucky the toughest most definitely, but not the upset-of-the-year. And definitely not hitting the radar on any notable upset beating Rutgers or Army. EMU last year beat Wyoming, a MW Divisional Champ who went down to the wire in the MW Championship game.

I could see EMU doing some damage in the MAC -- ruining it for WMU/NIU/Toledo in winning the MAC West.

(07-15-2017 09:33 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I've spoke to a mom of an injured player who rehabbed and was ready to come back. The kid had been through hell from a debilitating illness. He loved being here.

So what did Peej do? Told him he should transfer.

Couldn't he have come up with a clownish PR stunt, like doing an onside kick with a note attached that said, "Glad you didn't die. Welcome back, and keep rowing!"

What a special man. I miss him so

It does look like you miss him, because you won't stop talking about him.

(07-17-2017 05:27 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(07-15-2017 09:33 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I've spoke to a mom of an injured player who rehabbed and was ready to come back. The kid had been through hell from a debilitating illness. He loved being here.

So what did Peej do? Told him he should transfer.

Couldn't he have come up with a clownish PR stunt, like doing an onside kick with a note attached that said, "Glad you didn't die. Welcome back, and keep rowing!"

What a special man. I miss him so

It does look like you miss him, because you won't stop talking about him.

Oh please, you're not upset that I bring his name up, you're confused because I don't slobber all over him for the great things he did

Off topic, but...

Former WMU DE Devante Lee, who was kicked off the team in 2014 after being charged with shoplifting, then transferred to Southern Illinois....is now on Kent State's roster as a 5th-year senior.

(07-17-2017 01:39 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:Kentucky, Rutgers, and Army are all winnable games if EMU is halfway decent.

I agree. Kentucky the toughest most definitely, but not the upset-of-the-year. And definitely not hitting the radar on any notable upset beating Rutgers or Army. EMU last year beat Wyoming, a MW Divisional Champ who went down to the wire in the MW Championship game.

I could see EMU doing some damage in the MAC -- ruining it for WMU/NIU/Toledo in winning the MAC West.

Not happening.

I don't know if Eastern has the depth in OL-DL to be a contender.

But historically they have been a thorn in our side, especially in Rynearson.

(07-18-2017 09:26 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  I don't know if Eastern has the depth in OL-DL to be a contender.

But historically they have been a thorn in our side, especially in Rynearson.

I know we have a new QB, and they have a seasoned QB.

But our team is seasoned across the board compared to theirs, and I think we are even better than them this year than last year.

Joe Flacco is very comfortable demoralizing EMU on the ground.

And Roback, although an upperclassmen, is going to get picked off. Our D is LEGIT this year.

(07-18-2017 09:26 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  I don't know if Eastern has the depth in OL-DL to be a contender.

But historically they have been a thorn in our side, especially in Rynearson.

OL is the big question mark this year. Interior is good, but need to find 2 new starting OT's. Obviously not as talented as Moton, but our RT Wylie signed with the Colts, and LT Gardner signed with the Bucs.

DL is plenty deep and talented.

Should be a WMU vs. Toledo battle this year.

(07-18-2017 09:58 AM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 09:26 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  I don't know if Eastern has the depth in OL-DL to be a contender.

But historically they have been a thorn in our side, especially in Rynearson.

I know we have a new QB, and they have a seasoned QB.

But our team is seasoned across the board compared to theirs, and I think we are even better than them this year than last year.

Joe Flacco is very comfortable demoralizing EMU on the ground.

And Roback, although an upperclassmen, is going to get picked off. Our D is LEGIT this year.

Hmmmm. So you're saying you're even better this year after having the best season in school history, and losing 3 of the best players ever to play their positions at WMU............in Corey Davis, Taylor Moton, and Zach Terrell. While breaking in an entire new staff, all new WR's, and a new QB with very little experience.

Bold prediction.

(07-18-2017 10:17 AM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 09:58 AM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 09:26 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  I don't know if Eastern has the depth in OL-DL to be a contender.

But historically they have been a thorn in our side, especially in Rynearson.

I know we have a new QB, and they have a seasoned QB.

But our team is seasoned across the board compared to theirs, and I think we are even better than them this year than last year.

Joe Flacco is very comfortable demoralizing EMU on the ground.

And Roback, although an upperclassmen, is going to get picked off. Our D is LEGIT this year.

Hmmmm. So you're saying you're even better this year after having the best season in school history, and losing 3 of the best players ever to play their positions at WMU............in Corey Davis, Taylor Moton, and Zach Terrell. While breaking in an entire new staff, all new WR's, and a new QB with very little experience.

Bold prediction.

Yes! I know!!!!

(07-18-2017 08:46 AM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  

(07-17-2017 01:39 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:Kentucky, Rutgers, and Army are all winnable games if EMU is halfway decent.

I agree. Kentucky the toughest most definitely, but not the upset-of-the-year. And definitely not hitting the radar on any notable upset beating Rutgers or Army. EMU last year beat Wyoming, a MW Divisional Champ who went down to the wire in the MW Championship game.

I could see EMU doing some damage in the MAC -- ruining it for WMU/NIU/Toledo in winning the MAC West.

Not happening.

I was looking at recruiting websites and EMU has consistently been ranked near the bottom of the MAC these past couple years. I was originally thinking they'd be a legit contender, now I'm having doubts. The only thing that's guaranteed this season in the West is Toledo will be the team to beat.

(07-18-2017 09:58 AM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 09:26 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  I don't know if Eastern has the depth in OL-DL to be a contender.

But historically they have been a thorn in our side, especially in Rynearson.

I know we have a new QB, and they have a seasoned QB.

But our team is seasoned across the board compared to theirs, and I think we are even better than them this year than last year.

Joe Flacco is very comfortable demoralizing EMU on the ground.

And Roback, although an upperclassmen, is going to get picked off. Our D is LEGIT this year.

So I guess we don't need to worry about Flacco 'demoralizing EMU on the ground' anymore......eh Hiller4?

Wassink is a champion. Western is a champion. Wassink leading Western Michigan = Champions.