(07-10-2017 08:46 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  If we finish 9th and also strike out on the 2018 class Tubby may be gone by April.

Nope... still three years on the deal.

Short of him taking a buyout, I think we stick with there is a year left. No matter what.

(07-11-2017 02:34 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-10-2017 11:16 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  Anything worse than third in the AAC is a failure for Tiger basketball.

If Tubs finishes above 9th in the league this year he will declare the season a success. Only a top 3 finish should qualify.

I can't remember being less excited for Tiger basketball since Tic Price.

A top 100 finish in the RPI and a top 30 recruiting class should get Tubby where he needs to be for 2020. At some point he has to be able to land kids in the top 100. He was able to land a few at Minnesota.

Where is the evidence Tubby Smith and his staff has the willingness to recruit a top 30 class?

Especially when he will burn bridges in the core recruiting ground he has in the Memphis area?

(07-10-2017 09:45 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(07-10-2017 09:19 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(07-10-2017 09:03 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-10-2017 08:52 PM)M1T4 Wrote:  Jonah Jordan @_JonahJordan

They will be better than expected. I guarantee it.

I think that in a lot of ways Tubby might have put together many of the parts that you need to for a good basketball team, but unless someone turns out to be way better than they are supposed to be, it is going to be a struggle to put the ball in the basket.

The best hope would be that Martin acquired a right hand, or someone acquired an outside shot over the summer.

There's two ends of the court, keeping the other team from scoring is where this team needs to excel. That can cover up a lot of offensive deficiencies.

Tubby promised an uptempo style. Typically, strong defensive teams want to slow the pace and suffocate the opponent.

Watching the JUCO guys games it seems that the staff will have to spend A LOT of time teaching basketball 101 skills to guys, which slows down what else you can do. That is, unless, they just focus more on offensive sets and hope that the ath-u-letes can just press and jump passing lanes and whatnot on defense.

(07-10-2017 11:16 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  Anything worse than third in the AAC is a failure for Tiger basketball.

If Tubs finishes above 9th in the league this year he will declare the season a success. Only a top 3 finish should qualify.

I can't remember being less excited for Tiger basketball since Tic Price.

So we've been failing every year since leaving good ole CUSA?

It's hard to believe anyone could be less excited now than those last 2 Pastner years, but I'll take your word for it.

FWIW, Norlander is GP's boy. So he's taking dictation on any column about the Tigers straight from that guy - and we all know the tone there.

I am guessing we finish better than 9th. But it's a guess. Just like EVERYONE else is guessing right now. Because there are just too many unknowns. I suppose the internet experts should be projecting us with more wins now, since one of our recruits was just upgraded to a 4-star. And since they place so much value on those stars, that should be worth a couple of wins right there.

(07-11-2017 06:58 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 02:34 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-10-2017 11:16 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  Anything worse than third in the AAC is a failure for Tiger basketball.

If Tubs finishes above 9th in the league this year he will declare the season a success. Only a top 3 finish should qualify.

I can't remember being less excited for Tiger basketball since Tic Price.

A top 100 finish in the RPI and a top 30 recruiting class should get Tubby where he needs to be for 2020. At some point he has to be able to land kids in the top 100. He was able to land a few at Minnesota.

Where is the evidence Tubby Smith and his staff has the willingness to recruit a top 30 class?

Especially when he will burn bridges in the core recruiting ground he has in the Memphis area?

What bridges? Surely you don't mean Keelon. Maybe I missed something.

My take (which has been altered a bit from my pre-draft announcements).

1) Wichita State (returns pretty much every player from at t25 team)
2) Cincinnati (return 8 of 10 top scorers)
3) UCF (return 3 of top 4 scorers, add three transfers who were good players)
4) Tulsa (return 5 of 6 top scorers)
5) SMU (loses Moore and Brown but gets 15pgg USF xfer) drops since Semi enters draft
6) Houston (lose Chicken and Dotson) get an LIU grad xfer and #5 JUCO
7) Memphis
8) UConn (have like three good players, looking for bodies, depending on what else they get)
9) Temple (lose Dingle and Brown from 7-11 AAC team)
10 Tulane (return two leading scorers from ****** team)
11) ECU (wgas)
12) USF (return less "talent" than Memphis, can't even find warm bodies)


There is a clear Tier 1 of WSU and Cinci.

UCF is a low Tier 2.

I see Tier 3(a) as SMU, Tulsa and Houston although I'm banking more on SMU's rep than what they might have on the roster.

Tier 3(b) is Memphis, UConn, and Temple. UConn made it close to 7th with a late addition from the JUCO ranks.

There is no Tier 4.

Tier 5 is Tulane, ECU, and USF.

(07-11-2017 09:12 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  My take (which has been altered a bit from my pre-draft announcements).

1) Wichita State (returns pretty much every player from at t25 team)
2) Cincinnati (return 8 of 10 top scorers)
3) UCF (return top 4 scorers) depends on Taco
4) Tulsa (return 5 of 6 top scorers)
5) SMU (loses Moore and Brown but gets 15pgg USF xfer) drops since Semi enters draft
6) Houston (lose Chicken and Dotson) get an LIU grad xfer and #5 JUCO
7) Memphis
8) UConn (have like three good players, looking for bodies, depending on what else they get)
9) Temple (lose Dingle and Brown from 7-11 AAC team)
10 Tulane (return two leading scorers from ****** team)
11) ECU (wgas)
12) USF (return less "talent" than Memphis, can't even find warm bodies)


There is a clear Tier 1 of WSU and Cinci.

UCF is a low Tier 2.

I see Tier 3(a) as SMU, Tulsa and Houston although I'm banking more on SMU's rep than what they might have on the roster.

Tier 3(b) is Memphis, UConn, and Temple. UConn made it close to 7th with a late addition from the JUCO ranks.

There is no Tier 4.

Tier 5 is Tulane, ECU, and USF.

Tulsa hasn't recruited well the past couple years on 247? Are most of their good players transfers?

(07-11-2017 09:30 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 09:12 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  My take (which has been altered a bit from my pre-draft announcements).

1) Wichita State (returns pretty much every player from at t25 team)
2) Cincinnati (return 8 of 10 top scorers)
3) UCF (return top 4 scorers) depends on Taco
4) Tulsa (return 5 of 6 top scorers)
5) SMU (loses Moore and Brown but gets 15pgg USF xfer) drops since Semi enters draft
6) Houston (lose Chicken and Dotson) get an LIU grad xfer and #5 JUCO
7) Memphis
8) UConn (have like three good players, looking for bodies, depending on what else they get)
9) Temple (lose Dingle and Brown from 7-11 AAC team)
10 Tulane (return two leading scorers from ****** team)
11) ECU (wgas)
12) USF (return less "talent" than Memphis, can't even find warm bodies)


There is a clear Tier 1 of WSU and Cinci.

UCF is a low Tier 2.

I see Tier 3(a) as SMU, Tulsa and Houston although I'm banking more on SMU's rep than what they might have on the roster.

Tier 3(b) is Memphis, UConn, and Temple. UConn made it close to 7th with a late addition from the JUCO ranks.

There is no Tier 4.

Tier 5 is Tulane, ECU, and USF.

Tulsa hasn't recruited well the past couple years on 247? Are most of their good players transfers?

Well, they loaded up with JUCO's and transfers last year and went 15-17.

This was after a season which they had nine seniors and went to the NCAA's. The two best players on the 15-16 team were Shaq Harrison and James Woodard who were four year players recruited by Wojic or Manning.

Incredibly, seven of the nine players on the 15-16 team were there together for all four years and two others were a two-year and three year player.

Wheeler and Henderson were Tulsa's two main JUCO recruits in the 16-17 season.

Wheeler was #9 ranked JUCO. He averaged 22 ppg and shot 40% from 3 in 30 mpg at Kilgore College.
At Tulsa, he averaged 9.3 ppg and shot 29.5% from three in 29.2 mpg last year at Tulsa.

Henderson averaged 14.8 ppg 3 reb and 3 assists while shooting 38.4% from three at Blinn JC.
In 2016-17 for Tulsa he went for 8.3 ppg 1.1 rebs and 1.2 assists while shooting 33.8% in 22 mpg.

Tulsa goes as far as Etou takes them. When he is not on they suck

(07-11-2017 08:57 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(07-10-2017 11:16 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  Anything worse than third in the AAC is a failure for Tiger basketball.

If Tubs finishes above 9th in the league this year he will declare the season a success. Only a top 3 finish should qualify.

I can't remember being less excited for Tiger basketball since Tic Price.

So we've been failing every year since leaving good ole CUSA?

It's hard to believe anyone could be less excited now than those last 2 Pastner years, but I'll take your word for it.

Yep, well, I think we tied for 3rd the first year but were the 5 seed in the tournament.

It's close between Tic and Pastner as far as lack of excitement. I'd hate to have to live off the difference.

(07-11-2017 09:45 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Wheeler and Henderson were Tulsa's two main JUCO recruits in the 16-17 season.

Wheeler was #9 ranked JUCO. He averaged 22 ppg and shot 40% from 3 in 30 mpg at Kilgore College.
At Tulsa, he averaged 9.3 ppg and shot 29.5% from three in 29.2 mpg last year at Tulsa.

Henderson averaged 14.8 ppg 3 reb and 3 assists while shooting 38.4% from three at Blinn JC.
In 2016-17 for Tulsa he went for 8.3 ppg 1.1 rebs and 1.2 assists while shooting 33.8% in 22 mpg.

Uh oh.

(07-11-2017 10:20 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 09:45 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Wheeler and Henderson were Tulsa's two main JUCO recruits in the 16-17 season.

Wheeler was #9 ranked JUCO. He averaged 22 ppg and shot 40% from 3 in 30 mpg at Kilgore College.
At Tulsa, he averaged 9.3 ppg and shot 29.5% from three in 29.2 mpg last year at Tulsa.

Henderson averaged 14.8 ppg 3 reb and 3 assists while shooting 38.4% from three at Blinn JC.
In 2016-17 for Tulsa he went for 8.3 ppg 1.1 rebs and 1.2 assists while shooting 33.8% in 22 mpg.

Uh oh.

Look who is coaching them though. Frank Haiti lives off of coaching previous coaches players. Why you think he hoped from Missouri to Tulsa after he used up Kim English and company's eligibility

(07-11-2017 09:45 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Wheeler and Henderson were Tulsa's two main JUCO recruits in the 16-17 season.

Wheeler was #9 ranked JUCO. He averaged 22 ppg and shot 40% from 3 in 30 mpg at Kilgore College.
At Tulsa, he averaged 9.3 ppg and shot 29.5% from three in 29.2 mpg last year at Tulsa.

Henderson averaged 14.8 ppg 3 reb and 3 assists while shooting 38.4% from three at Blinn JC.
In 2016-17 for Tulsa he went for 8.3 ppg 1.1 rebs and 1.2 assists while shooting 33.8% in 22 mpg.

What would this guy average next year? He's rated pretty high on 247.

http://njcaaregion14.com/sports/mbkb/201...roddietlz9

(07-11-2017 10:20 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 09:45 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Wheeler and Henderson were Tulsa's two main JUCO recruits in the 16-17 season.

Wheeler was #9 ranked JUCO. He averaged 22 ppg and shot 40% from 3 in 30 mpg at Kilgore College.
At Tulsa, he averaged 9.3 ppg and shot 29.5% from three in 29.2 mpg last year at Tulsa.

Henderson averaged 14.8 ppg 3 reb and 3 assists while shooting 38.4% from three at Blinn JC.
In 2016-17 for Tulsa he went for 8.3 ppg 1.1 rebs and 1.2 assists while shooting 33.8% in 22 mpg.

Uh oh.

Saluki's 50% rule holds up again.

I'm sure someone will try to say how it's different or "just let them play" but whatever.

(07-11-2017 10:27 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 09:45 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Wheeler and Henderson were Tulsa's two main JUCO recruits in the 16-17 season.

Wheeler was #9 ranked JUCO. He averaged 22 ppg and shot 40% from 3 in 30 mpg at Kilgore College.
At Tulsa, he averaged 9.3 ppg and shot 29.5% from three in 29.2 mpg last year at Tulsa.

Henderson averaged 14.8 ppg 3 reb and 3 assists while shooting 38.4% from three at Blinn JC.
In 2016-17 for Tulsa he went for 8.3 ppg 1.1 rebs and 1.2 assists while shooting 33.8% in 22 mpg.

What would this guy average next year? He's rated pretty high on 247.

http://njcaaregion14.com/sports/mbkb/201...roddietlz9

Well, we know that he wasn't good enough to crack Memphis' lineup. We know that he was a 10 ppg game guy in JUCO, so he'd likely be at best a 5 ppg guy at a decent school.

(07-11-2017 06:58 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 02:34 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-10-2017 11:16 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  Anything worse than third in the AAC is a failure for Tiger basketball.

If Tubs finishes above 9th in the league this year he will declare the season a success. Only a top 3 finish should qualify.

I can't remember being less excited for Tiger basketball since Tic Price.

A top 100 finish in the RPI and a top 30 recruiting class should get Tubby where he needs to be for 2020. At some point he has to be able to land kids in the top 100. He was able to land a few at Minnesota.

Where is the evidence Tubby Smith and his staff has the willingness to recruit a top 30 class?

Especially when he will burn bridges in the core recruiting ground he has in the Memphis area?

That is the whole point to this. People are saying that we haven't seen the team on the court yet and not to worry about it. I would honestly be all for that if Tubby was recruiting at a higher level than he was at Minnesota and Texas Tech...but he obviously isn't and he has obviously never gutted a roster like he has here.

Tubby has won 1 NCAA tournament game in 10 years and has missed the tournament 6 times during that span by recruiting at the same level that he has at Memphis so far. Unless he has some sort of magic Memphis wand, why would anyone reasonably expect him to do better than that here?

(07-11-2017 10:27 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 10:20 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 09:45 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Wheeler and Henderson were Tulsa's two main JUCO recruits in the 16-17 season.

Wheeler was #9 ranked JUCO. He averaged 22 ppg and shot 40% from 3 in 30 mpg at Kilgore College.
At Tulsa, he averaged 9.3 ppg and shot 29.5% from three in 29.2 mpg last year at Tulsa.

Henderson averaged 14.8 ppg 3 reb and 3 assists while shooting 38.4% from three at Blinn JC.
In 2016-17 for Tulsa he went for 8.3 ppg 1.1 rebs and 1.2 assists while shooting 33.8% in 22 mpg.

Uh oh.

Saluki's 50% rule holds up again.

I'm sure someone will try to say how it's different or "just let them play" but whatever.

In all likelihood we're looking at another season at .500 or a couple games over and a 4th consecutive year of no NCAA tournament (or any tournament for that matter).

For Memphis basketball, that's at or near rock bottom because of all the slaw that's usually on the schedule.

Maybe this team can 'shock the world' but a 23-24 win season with an NCAA tournament appearance would indeed be a shock.

(07-11-2017 10:34 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 10:27 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 10:20 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 09:45 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Wheeler and Henderson were Tulsa's two main JUCO recruits in the 16-17 season.

Wheeler was #9 ranked JUCO. He averaged 22 ppg and shot 40% from 3 in 30 mpg at Kilgore College.
At Tulsa, he averaged 9.3 ppg and shot 29.5% from three in 29.2 mpg last year at Tulsa.

Henderson averaged 14.8 ppg 3 reb and 3 assists while shooting 38.4% from three at Blinn JC.
In 2016-17 for Tulsa he went for 8.3 ppg 1.1 rebs and 1.2 assists while shooting 33.8% in 22 mpg.

Uh oh.

Saluki's 50% rule holds up again.

I'm sure someone will try to say how it's different or "just let them play" but whatever.

In all likelihood we're looking at another season at .500 or a couple games over and a 4th consecutive year of no NCAA tournament (or any tournament for that matter).

For Memphis basketball, that's at or near rock bottom because of all the slaw that's usually on the schedule.

Maybe this team can 'shock the world' but a 23-24 win season with an NCAA tournament appearance would indeed be a shock.

The bottom line will be that of these games:

vs. Bama
vs. Louisville
vs. Wichita State
vs. Cinci
@ Cinci
vs. UCF
@UCF
@SMU

Memphis will need to go at least 3-5. And then win the rest of their OOC games and go at least 8-4 in the rest of their AAC games.

That would get them at 22-9 (11-5 in conference) with wins over WSU, Cinci, and UCF (assuming the three wins come from home games).

That might be enough for an at-large.