(06-24-2017 02:36 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 07:00 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 06:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If the ultimate bill looks like what people are saying it looks like ... I will:

- Never support the GOP itself in any meaningful way for the rest of time
- Vote against whoever voted for it for the rest of time, even if that means pulling the lever for a Democrat
- Actively campaign against in the primaries whoever voted for it for the rest of time
- Pull the plug on the health insurance market entirely and go to secular faith based health sharing organizations.

So far they are blowing this big time. As it looks now, they're gonna blow tax reform too.

Tweaking this bill just enough to get 51 senate votes isn't going to be enough to get it approved by the HOR freedom caucus. As Kasich would say, "that train is dead".

And the next thing that happened after cuck Kasich said the train was dead was to get run over by the train.

(06-23-2017 06:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If the ultimate bill looks like what people are saying it looks like ... I will:

- Never support the GOP itself in any meaningful way for the rest of time
- Vote against whoever voted for it for the rest of time, even if that means pulling the lever for a Democrat
- Actively campaign against in the primaries whoever voted for it for the rest of time
- Pull the plug on the health insurance market entirely and go to secular faith based health sharing organizations.

Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

Once this is passed, you can work on improvements. If you don't get this passed, there may never be another chance. Democrats may well take the House in 2018, especially if nothing gets done.

Obamacare needs to be hacked to pieces as quickly as possible. If the Democrats take the House in 2018 and you haven't hacked it up, its easy to put back together. They will just add more taxes.

Personally, I would have killed the filibuster, repealed it 1-1-2018 and then thrown it open to a fix. But they aren't going to kill the filibuster and the Democrats aren't going to cooperate unless they get crushed in 2018 AND 2020.

This bill is what we have to do. Then we immediately start working on things like tort reform and other fixes.

If they need to hack it to bits, they better propose something that starts doing that.

Better yet, get on with the business they were elected to do. Repeal.

This picking around the edges with a dull, plastic butter knife, isn't meaningful in the slightest. You're right that the Dems can just set us right back on the path they want. So I don't follow the insistence we have to do this nothing burger. To pretend something is done, though nothing short of repeal actually is anything.

(06-23-2017 09:56 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  Paying for healthcare is not a Constitutional responsibility of the federal government. If an individual state wants to do it then so be it, but it's not the responsibility of the feds. It's also not my financial responsibility to pay for your healthcare. My responsibility ends with the people who live under my roof.

Oops. You just took away employer-provided health insurance for 3/4 of Americans by eliminating federal government tax deductions for corporate health insurance plans. Now they're all out in the individual market, pre-existing conditions and all ... bummer.

(06-23-2017 07:01 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 05:45 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 05:30 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 04:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I'm with you on welfare. I am but health care is different. It just is. I'm reasonably healthy and my family is too. Really have no dog in the fight other than just humanitarian reasons. I want to live in a society that takes care of kids in these situations and I will advocate for it and try to convince you on it too. We need to take the hate out of this and dial it down and remember that guy voting D or R are our neighbors and friends. People shooting people over this. I'm not going to be a part of the hate anymore. I'm not. Peace unto you JMU.

I recall an article after ObamaCare went into effect where a supporter was interviewed.

He said he was initially in favor of the program until he found out he was paying for it.


Obama Voters Shocked by Obamacare Cancellations, Skyrocketing Rates

Quote:Matthew Fleischer, 34, writing in the Los Angeles Times, said he received a cancellation notice informing him that his copays would double, urgent-care visits would quadruple, and maximum out-of-pocket expenses would go from $4,900 to $6,350.

“Needless to say, I am not pleased,” writes Fleischer. “Most young, middle-class Americans I know are happy that millions of previously uninsured people will receive free or heavily subsidized insurance under the Affordable Care Act. We just didn’t realize that, unless we had health insurance at work, we’d be the ones paying for it.”

Here's the article in the LA Times:

Obamacare: Unfair to the young middle class, punished enough already

That's not the only example I've seen, but it's the first one I came across when googling a link to support my comment.

I hate to say it, but this guy is the very embodiment of the "stupidity of the American people".

Quote:“Most young, middle-class Americans I know are happy that millions of previously uninsured people will receive free or heavily subsidized insurance

Well, dummy , when has anything ever been "free"?!? When has anything gone DOWN in price once Government gets involved? who the hell did you think was going to pay for that? The same people getting "free or heavily subsidized insurance"?!?

Hope this guy's a heck of a good writer, cause math and basic economics certainly ain't his thing. Damn.

When I worked, I paid into the Medicare insurance. The problem is that we are tax by our city, our county, our state and our federal governments. They blow the money not on us, but on stupid things that could go into the social programs to keep them afloat. We need to turn some of the money from taxes as an investment into the Medicaid, Medicare and SS for life. That way, the poor or lower income families that are considered poor do pay into this and get excess to the programs. The tax money could go into savings accounts so that the government can't raid the money for wars and all that. We could easily solved the issues, but both parties, drug companies and health insurance companies won't work together to fix the problem. What the Senate Bill will do is make things worst, and there is only like 16% of the people of this country is in favor of this. Trump is backtracking on his support of congress and the Senate bills since he sees how unfavorable these bills are.

how do you feed yourself?

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

People need to remember this Senate bill (Obamacare repeal 2.0) is step 2 in a 6 step process. This bill will never become law just as the House bill (Obamacare Repeal 1.0) will never become law.

The Senate needs to pass this so we can move on to step 3 The Conference committee where Obamacare Repeal 3.0 can be written and step 4/5 getting Obamacare Repeal 3.0 passed in both the House and Senate. Step 6 is getting Trump to sign and is the easiest of them all.

(06-24-2017 02:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

Once this is passed, you can work on improvements. If you don't get this passed, there may never be another chance. Democrats may well take the House in 2018, especially if nothing gets done.

This is it Charlie Brown. I'm really going to hold it this time. Just go one step further with me one more time ....

So DavidSt., are you saying that you cannot work to produce any income on your own?

(06-24-2017 05:58 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  Oops. You just took away employer-provided health insurance for 3/4 of Americans by eliminating federal government tax deductions for corporate health insurance plans. Now they're all out in the individual market, pre-existing conditions and all ... bummer.

Tax deduction != paying for...

Why is this so hard for liberals to undersand..

(06-24-2017 09:18 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  So DavidSt., are you saying that you cannot work to produce any income on your own?

He's could always work for the DNC

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Guys. Some kid reaches their lifetime cap? What is your solution?

(06-25-2017 05:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Guys. Some kid reaches their lifetime cap? What is your solution?

There is no solution beyond paying for their care themselves if they able to do so or charity for someone who can't pay for it in that situation.

The nationalized health care that lefties dream of can't solve that problem either. It's not economically feasible. Nationalized healthcare would cut that person off by denying services and probably hand the family a card about end of life preparation.

(06-25-2017 05:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Guys. Some kid reaches their lifetime cap? What is your solution?

it's called life.....and some are dealt a bad hand....you've been handed one that all of us sympathize with.....

however, yours is isolated like many others.....if there was an easy solution to fit the needs of many via the few with capital, it would've already happened...

I suggest go fund in your situation.....good people will respond.....your story is compelling and valid....

my other suggestion would be to review your writings and condense into an apolitical theme....

good people with means will respond.....I'll be one of them....

It's not economically infeasible. You put a national sales tax on. Many many many countries do it.

(06-25-2017 09:28 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's not economically infeasible. You put a national sales tax on. Many many many countries do it.

and that's where our divide hits the beaten path....

in simple terms.....that never ends...

and also contradicts what you believe in (taxation to the masses)

what line could possibly be drawn that is equitable???

I'll never go the socialist route.....that's what the left has become due to the increase in numbers via the wealth gap....

now I have to fight.....I didn't want that.... you guys really didn't want to unleash this one....

the dems ****** up in spades.....

My ordeal is over. Just lived it and will advocate for others in that situation. Last thing I'm going to do is stand back and say hey here's a card on end of life preparations.

A 2 % national sales tax. Your health care is covered. Done. End of argument.

(06-25-2017 09:43 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  A 2 % national sales tax. Your health care is covered. Done. End of argument.

hey pal, I'm all for a consumption tax if structured correctly....have pointed that out too many times

however, the point remains valid.....it contradicts everything the left currently believes in...the right is currently whiffing this one too...

see....you have some right in you after all

(06-25-2017 05:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Guys. Some kid reaches their lifetime cap? What is your solution?

Guys. Some older middle aged woman has a cancer which the government deems "too expensive to work on" and shifts the resources to the younger? What is your solution?

> Yes this really happened to my grandparent under the wonderful canadian model.

(06-25-2017 09:43 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  A 2 % national sales tax. Your health care is covered. Done. End of argument.

How does that control cost? 2% this year, 3% next year, 20% 10 years down the road... it never ends. Reduce the costs and then we can have a debate on how it is paid for. That's where Obamacare failed. Only increased costs and shifted sand from one side of the room to the other. Bad.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk