So we should finish in conference better than last year...sweet! NCAAs here we come! We're back, baby! Glad Tubby got rid of the "distractions" and rif-raft so he could get us to his winning ways

(05-30-2017 05:37 PM)Tiger65 Wrote:  Taken together, the seven-member 2017 recruiting class assembled by Smith and his coaching staff is ranked No. 55 in the country by 247Sports. It’s considered the highest-rated recruiting class in the AAC this year......

Never thought i would live to see the day where we have people trying to spin a 55th ranked recruiting class in MBB as a positive.

(05-31-2017 08:46 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 05:37 PM)Tiger65 Wrote:  Taken together, the seven-member 2017 recruiting class assembled by Smith and his coaching staff is ranked No. 55 in the country by 247Sports. It’s considered the highest-rated recruiting class in the AAC this year......

Never thought i would live to see the day where we have people trying to spin a 55th ranked recruiting class in MBB as a positive.

Rome was't built in a day!

(05-31-2017 09:51 AM)DALLAS TIGER 78 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 08:46 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 05:37 PM)Tiger65 Wrote:  Taken together, the seven-member 2017 recruiting class assembled by Smith and his coaching staff is ranked No. 55 in the country by 247Sports. It’s considered the highest-rated recruiting class in the AAC this year......

Never thought i would live to see the day where we have people trying to spin a 55th ranked recruiting class in MBB as a positive.

Rome was't built in a day!

I never thought that I would live to see the day this board become a place for anti-Tiger miserable people to bad mouth our school.

(05-31-2017 08:40 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 06:19 PM)M1T4 Wrote:  Before anyone says that placement was achieved by quantity, I am pretty sure it takes your 4 highest rated recruits.

It is the accumulative score of your entire class.

Our accumulative score is 45.82. The accumulative score of our top 4 is 45.27

WKU has a accumulative score of 63.91 with fewer recruits.
UNLV has an accumulative score of 60.18 with just 4 recruits
StL has an accumulative score of 44.27 with JUST TWO PLAYERS

Being the top class in a conference which recruited very very poorly this year is nothing to write home about.

We are a school which normally are in top 20 if not top 10. Being in the 50s is unacceptable.

There is a reoccurring problem here...

(05-31-2017 09:51 AM)DALLAS TIGER 78 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 08:46 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 05:37 PM)Tiger65 Wrote:  Taken together, the seven-member 2017 recruiting class assembled by Smith and his coaching staff is ranked No. 55 in the country by 247Sports. It’s considered the highest-rated recruiting class in the AAC this year......

Never thought i would live to see the day where we have people trying to spin a 55th ranked recruiting class in MBB as a positive.

Rome was't built in a day!

MBB burns as Orlando fiddles.

2013 top 5 class
2014 38th and raked across the coals for it
2015 Top 10 class
2016 92nd (handful of scholarships not used)
2017 55th all but 3 active players left team.

(05-30-2017 07:17 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 05:37 PM)Tiger65 Wrote:  Taken together, the seven-member 2017 recruiting class assembled by Smith and his coaching staff is ranked No. 55 in the country by 247Sports. It’s considered the highest-rated recruiting class in the AAC this year......

Adding the #55 class to almost nothing is the issue...If we finish with a better record than last year Smith deserves coach of the year consideration for the conference.

Agree that it's the challenge. If just Markel had stayed, most of us might have a totally different outlook.

(05-31-2017 12:05 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:51 AM)DALLAS TIGER 78 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 08:46 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 05:37 PM)Tiger65 Wrote:  Taken together, the seven-member 2017 recruiting class assembled by Smith and his coaching staff is ranked No. 55 in the country by 247Sports. It’s considered the highest-rated recruiting class in the AAC this year......

Never thought i would live to see the day where we have people trying to spin a 55th ranked recruiting class in MBB as a positive.

Rome was't built in a day!

MBB burns as Orlando fiddles.

2013 top 5 class
2014 38th and raked across the coals for it
2015 Top 10 class
2016 92nd (handful of scholarships not used)
2017 55th all but 3 active players left team.

You are ridiculous

(05-30-2017 06:20 PM)Hoots Wrote:  Kewl! Works for me, although it likely won't work for many others...

Me too!

(05-31-2017 12:05 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:51 AM)DALLAS TIGER 78 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 08:46 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 05:37 PM)Tiger65 Wrote:  Taken together, the seven-member 2017 recruiting class assembled by Smith and his coaching staff is ranked No. 55 in the country by 247Sports. It’s considered the highest-rated recruiting class in the AAC this year......

Never thought i would live to see the day where we have people trying to spin a 55th ranked recruiting class in MBB as a positive.

Rome was't built in a day!

MBB burns as Orlando fiddles.

2013 top 5 class
2014 38th and raked across the coals for it
2015 Top 10 class
2016 92nd (handful of scholarships not used)
2017 55th all but 3 active players left team.

Cal was the only coach to insulate recruiting from the ups/downs of local rankings. Pastner lived and died by how deep the local recruits were:

2009 ranking #113 (worse than Tubby's first class, BTW). Zero local 5-stars, two local 4-stars (that he didn't get).
2010 ranking #3. Got all three local 5's and 4's. The class that won him his extension and a lot of patience (thanks primarily to Joe).
2011 ranking #67. Got the one local 5, missed the two local 4's.
2012 ranking #49. Zero local 5's and missed the only local 4.
2013 ranking #3. Got the only local 5, and two of the four local 4's. (Of course, they all transferred out.)
2014 ranking #38. Zero local 5's and missed the two local 4's.
2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

You can see that Pastner had 4 classes comparable in rankings to this year's class. Pastner had the 2 big classes in years that local recruiting was deep. And he had the other #10 class by hiring daddy. The 4 other years were all down years on the local scene, and Pastner averaged a class ranked #67 in those years.

The last 2 years have been the weakest two in Memphis going back 10 years. There have been zero 5's and only two 4's. Similar to Pastner in those down years, our recruiting has suffered. Now this may be coincidence, as Tubby may not target Memphis kids in even strong years. But it could be that the talent just hasn't been here. It's why the 2018 class will be very revealing for us.

(05-31-2017 12:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:05 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:51 AM)DALLAS TIGER 78 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 08:46 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 05:37 PM)Tiger65 Wrote:  Taken together, the seven-member 2017 recruiting class assembled by Smith and his coaching staff is ranked No. 55 in the country by 247Sports. It’s considered the highest-rated recruiting class in the AAC this year......

Never thought i would live to see the day where we have people trying to spin a 55th ranked recruiting class in MBB as a positive.

Rome was't built in a day!

MBB burns as Orlando fiddles.

2013 top 5 class
2014 38th and raked across the coals for it
2015 Top 10 class
2016 92nd (handful of scholarships not used)
2017 55th all but 3 active players left team.

Cal was the only coach to insulate recruiting from the ups/downs of local rankings. Pastner lived and died by how deep the local recruits were:

2009 ranking #113 (worse than Tubby's first class, BTW). Zero local 5-stars, two local 4-stars (that he didn't get).
2010 ranking #3. Got all three local 5's and 4's. The class that won him his extension and a lot of patience (thanks primarily to Joe).
2011 ranking #67. Got the one local 5, missed the two local 4's.
2012 ranking #49. Zero local 5's and missed the only local 4.
2013 ranking #3. Got the only local 5, and two of the four local 4's. (Of course, they all transferred out.)
2014 ranking #38. Zero local 5's and missed the two local 4's.
2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

You can see that Pastner had 4 classes comparable in rankings to this year's class. Pastner had the 2 big classes in years that local recruiting was deep. And he had the other #10 class by hiring daddy. The 4 other years were all down years on the local scene, and Pastner averaged a class ranked #67 in those years.

The last 2 years have been the weakest two in Memphis going back 10 years. There have been zero 5's and only two 4's. Similar to Pastner in those down years, our recruiting has suffered. Now this may be coincidence, as Tubby may not target Memphis kids in even strong years. But it could be that the talent just hasn't been here. It's why the 2018 class will be very revealing for us.

Agree with this. Memphis recruiting classes have been good when the city is strong.

However, the 2018 class does not have one player in the 247 composite. We have only had one top 100 player come out of Memphis since the start of Tubby's tenure, which he did miss.

For Tubby to be successful, he will need to recruit 4*\5* talent outside the city. Something, Josh had trouble with... well, players that stayed longer than a semester. Or Tubby could just coach up the borderline 3*\4* kids because they are actually decent at basketball.

(05-31-2017 01:56 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:05 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:51 AM)DALLAS TIGER 78 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 08:46 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  Never thought i would live to see the day where we have people trying to spin a 55th ranked recruiting class in MBB as a positive.

Rome was't built in a day!

MBB burns as Orlando fiddles.

2013 top 5 class
2014 38th and raked across the coals for it
2015 Top 10 class
2016 92nd (handful of scholarships not used)
2017 55th all but 3 active players left team.

Cal was the only coach to insulate recruiting from the ups/downs of local rankings. Pastner lived and died by how deep the local recruits were:

2009 ranking #113 (worse than Tubby's first class, BTW). Zero local 5-stars, two local 4-stars (that he didn't get).
2010 ranking #3. Got all three local 5's and 4's. The class that won him his extension and a lot of patience (thanks primarily to Joe).
2011 ranking #67. Got the one local 5, missed the two local 4's.
2012 ranking #49. Zero local 5's and missed the only local 4.
2013 ranking #3. Got the only local 5, and two of the four local 4's. (Of course, they all transferred out.)
2014 ranking #38. Zero local 5's and missed the two local 4's.
2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

You can see that Pastner had 4 classes comparable in rankings to this year's class. Pastner had the 2 big classes in years that local recruiting was deep. And he had the other #10 class by hiring daddy. The 4 other years were all down years on the local scene, and Pastner averaged a class ranked #67 in those years.

The last 2 years have been the weakest two in Memphis going back 10 years. There have been zero 5's and only two 4's. Similar to Pastner in those down years, our recruiting has suffered. Now this may be coincidence, as Tubby may not target Memphis kids in even strong years. But it could be that the talent just hasn't been here. It's why the 2018 class will be very revealing for us.

Agree with this. Memphis recruiting classes have been good when the city is strong.

However, the 2018 class does not have one player in the 247 composite. We have only had one top 100 player come out of Memphis since the start of Tubby's tenure, which he did miss.

For Tubby to be successful, he will need to recruit 4*\5* talent outside the city. Something, Josh had trouble with... well, players that stayed longer than a semester. Or Tubby could just coach up the borderline 3*\4* kids because they are actually decent at basketball.

True. 2018 still has to play out. A year or 2 ago, there were 2-3 guys in the top 100. They all seem to have slipped. But they could come back with strong summers. Regardless of rankings, by most accounts there are D1 players in the 2018 class. We will see if Tubby gets any.

(05-31-2017 12:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:05 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:51 AM)DALLAS TIGER 78 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 08:46 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 05:37 PM)Tiger65 Wrote:  Taken together, the seven-member 2017 recruiting class assembled by Smith and his coaching staff is ranked No. 55 in the country by 247Sports. It’s considered the highest-rated recruiting class in the AAC this year......

Never thought i would live to see the day where we have people trying to spin a 55th ranked recruiting class in MBB as a positive.

Rome was't built in a day!

MBB burns as Orlando fiddles.

2013 top 5 class
2014 38th and raked across the coals for it
2015 Top 10 class
2016 92nd (handful of scholarships not used)
2017 55th all but 3 active players left team.

Cal was the only coach to insulate recruiting from the ups/downs of local rankings. Pastner lived and died by how deep the local recruits were:

2009 ranking #113 (worse than Tubby's first class, BTW). Zero local 5-stars, two local 4-stars (that he didn't get).
2010 ranking #3. Got all three local 5's and 4's. The class that won him his extension and a lot of patience (thanks primarily to Joe).
2011 ranking #67. Got the one local 5, missed the two local 4's.
2012 ranking #49. Zero local 5's and missed the only local 4.
2013 ranking #3. Got the only local 5, and two of the four local 4's. (Of course, they all transferred out.)
2014 ranking #38. Zero local 5's and missed the two local 4's.
2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

You can see that Pastner had 4 classes comparable in rankings to this year's class. Pastner had the 2 big classes in years that local recruiting was deep. And he had the other #10 class by hiring daddy. The 4 other years were all down years on the local scene, and Pastner averaged a class ranked #67 in those years.

The last 2 years have been the weakest two in Memphis going back 10 years. There have been zero 5's and only two 4's. Similar to Pastner in those down years, our recruiting has suffered. Now this may be coincidence, as Tubby may not target Memphis kids in even strong years. But it could be that the talent just hasn't been here. It's why the 2018 class will be very revealing for us.

People have to get it into their heads that the notion that this year's class is better than 2011's is pure nonsense. We signed Adonis who was in the top 20 in the nation, and Stan Simpson, who was on par with any of the jucos we signed this year.

In 2012, we signed another top 50 player in Shaq, and Geron who was also highly regarded, so that class is head and shoulders better than this one.

It is a joke that in your examples that you mention players transferring out to try and downgrade Pastner's classes. The 5 players that transferred out played a total of 10 seasons for us. Tubby's 6 transfers lasted 1 season. Tubby's transfer rate stands at a sparkling 75% after 1 season, but and he will luck out this year because Rivers is graduating and won't be able to transfer out.

Pastner
3 - 2010
3 - 2012
10 - 2015
38 - 2016
54 - Total

Tubby
2016 - 300?
2017 - 55

Wake me up when Tubby manages to sign one decent class. Seriously.

Quote:2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

Pastner took on Keelon who brought in 2 top 50 recruits, with the promise of more to come. Tubby took on his useless kid to recruit D2 players. For the life of me I don't know why anyone would bring up Pastner hiring Keelon as a means of defending Tubby.

(05-31-2017 02:37 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 01:56 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:05 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:51 AM)DALLAS TIGER 78 Wrote:  Rome was't built in a day!

MBB burns as Orlando fiddles.

2013 top 5 class
2014 38th and raked across the coals for it
2015 Top 10 class
2016 92nd (handful of scholarships not used)
2017 55th all but 3 active players left team.

Cal was the only coach to insulate recruiting from the ups/downs of local rankings. Pastner lived and died by how deep the local recruits were:

2009 ranking #113 (worse than Tubby's first class, BTW). Zero local 5-stars, two local 4-stars (that he didn't get).
2010 ranking #3. Got all three local 5's and 4's. The class that won him his extension and a lot of patience (thanks primarily to Joe).
2011 ranking #67. Got the one local 5, missed the two local 4's.
2012 ranking #49. Zero local 5's and missed the only local 4.
2013 ranking #3. Got the only local 5, and two of the four local 4's. (Of course, they all transferred out.)
2014 ranking #38. Zero local 5's and missed the two local 4's.
2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

You can see that Pastner had 4 classes comparable in rankings to this year's class. Pastner had the 2 big classes in years that local recruiting was deep. And he had the other #10 class by hiring daddy. The 4 other years were all down years on the local scene, and Pastner averaged a class ranked #67 in those years.

The last 2 years have been the weakest two in Memphis going back 10 years. There have been zero 5's and only two 4's. Similar to Pastner in those down years, our recruiting has suffered. Now this may be coincidence, as Tubby may not target Memphis kids in even strong years. But it could be that the talent just hasn't been here. It's why the 2018 class will be very revealing for us.

Agree with this. Memphis recruiting classes have been good when the city is strong.

However, the 2018 class does not have one player in the 247 composite. We have only had one top 100 player come out of Memphis since the start of Tubby's tenure, which he did miss.

For Tubby to be successful, he will need to recruit 4*\5* talent outside the city. Something, Josh had trouble with... well, players that stayed longer than a semester. Or Tubby could just coach up the borderline 3*\4* kids because they are actually decent at basketball.

True. 2018 still has to play out. A year or 2 ago, there were 2-3 guys in the top 100. They all seem to have slipped. But they could come back with strong summers. Regardless of rankings, by most accounts there are D1 players in the 2018 class. We will see if Tubby gets any.

Keith said that the Memphis kids were highly monitored recently and that is the reason why they have slid in the rankings. A couple of things still leave me with a reason to be encouraged. First, I refuse to believe that there are more than a dozen places where better high school basketball is played than Memphis.

Second, Memphis has high school and Penny's team that are highly regarded nationally. If Memphis kids are holding their own nationally, I would have to think that that bodes well for them individually when they get to college. That they are doing it within the team concept is even more encouraging.

I've been outspoken about some fans expecting too much from Lomax based on his ranking and I stand by that. Having said that, I am hopeful that the group as a whole will show out better than their ranking.

(05-31-2017 03:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:05 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:51 AM)DALLAS TIGER 78 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 08:46 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  Never thought i would live to see the day where we have people trying to spin a 55th ranked recruiting class in MBB as a positive.

Rome was't built in a day!

MBB burns as Orlando fiddles.

2013 top 5 class
2014 38th and raked across the coals for it
2015 Top 10 class
2016 92nd (handful of scholarships not used)
2017 55th all but 3 active players left team.

Cal was the only coach to insulate recruiting from the ups/downs of local rankings. Pastner lived and died by how deep the local recruits were:

2009 ranking #113 (worse than Tubby's first class, BTW). Zero local 5-stars, two local 4-stars (that he didn't get).
2010 ranking #3. Got all three local 5's and 4's. The class that won him his extension and a lot of patience (thanks primarily to Joe).
2011 ranking #67. Got the one local 5, missed the two local 4's.
2012 ranking #49. Zero local 5's and missed the only local 4.
2013 ranking #3. Got the only local 5, and two of the four local 4's. (Of course, they all transferred out.)
2014 ranking #38. Zero local 5's and missed the two local 4's.
2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

You can see that Pastner had 4 classes comparable in rankings to this year's class. Pastner had the 2 big classes in years that local recruiting was deep. And he had the other #10 class by hiring daddy. The 4 other years were all down years on the local scene, and Pastner averaged a class ranked #67 in those years.

The last 2 years have been the weakest two in Memphis going back 10 years. There have been zero 5's and only two 4's. Similar to Pastner in those down years, our recruiting has suffered. Now this may be coincidence, as Tubby may not target Memphis kids in even strong years. But it could be that the talent just hasn't been here. It's why the 2018 class will be very revealing for us.

People have to get it into their heads that the notion that this year's class is better than 2011's is pure nonsense. We signed Adonis who was in the top 20 in the nation, and Stan Simpson, who was on par with any of the jucos we signed this year.

In 2012, we signed another top 50 player in Shaq, and Geron who was also highly regarded, so that class is head and shoulders better than this one.

It is a joke that in your examples that you mention players transferring out to try and downgrade Pastner's classes. The 5 players that transferred out played a total of 10 seasons for us. Tubby's 6 transfers lasted 1 season. Tubby's transfer rate stands at a sparkling 75% after 1 season, but and he will luck out this year because Rivers is graduating and won't be able to transfer out.

Pastner
3 - 2010
3 - 2012
10 - 2015
38 - 2016
54 - Total

Tubby
2016 - 300?
2017 - 55

Wake me up when Tubby manages to sign one decent class. Seriously.

Quote:2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

Pastner took on Keelon who brought in 2 top 50 recruits, with the promise of more to come. Tubby took on his useless kid to recruit D2 players. For the life of me I don't know why anyone would bring up Pastner hiring Keelon as a means of defending Tubby.

We aren't arguing that 2017 class is as better than the 2011 class. 247 says it is better. Now, it's true that 247's model does have issues, but most people still use it.

More important. This concept might help you. [1] Cherrypicking the the top three classes from seven years is rather meaningless statistically.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression...d_the_mean

Who could have guessed that some of our fans would be singing the praises of Josh Pastner after he ran our program into the ground?

(05-31-2017 03:38 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 03:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:05 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:51 AM)DALLAS TIGER 78 Wrote:  Rome was't built in a day!

MBB burns as Orlando fiddles.

2013 top 5 class
2014 38th and raked across the coals for it
2015 Top 10 class
2016 92nd (handful of scholarships not used)
2017 55th all but 3 active players left team.

Cal was the only coach to insulate recruiting from the ups/downs of local rankings. Pastner lived and died by how deep the local recruits were:

2009 ranking #113 (worse than Tubby's first class, BTW). Zero local 5-stars, two local 4-stars (that he didn't get).
2010 ranking #3. Got all three local 5's and 4's. The class that won him his extension and a lot of patience (thanks primarily to Joe).
2011 ranking #67. Got the one local 5, missed the two local 4's.
2012 ranking #49. Zero local 5's and missed the only local 4.
2013 ranking #3. Got the only local 5, and two of the four local 4's. (Of course, they all transferred out.)
2014 ranking #38. Zero local 5's and missed the two local 4's.
2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

You can see that Pastner had 4 classes comparable in rankings to this year's class. Pastner had the 2 big classes in years that local recruiting was deep. And he had the other #10 class by hiring daddy. The 4 other years were all down years on the local scene, and Pastner averaged a class ranked #67 in those years.

The last 2 years have been the weakest two in Memphis going back 10 years. There have been zero 5's and only two 4's. Similar to Pastner in those down years, our recruiting has suffered. Now this may be coincidence, as Tubby may not target Memphis kids in even strong years. But it could be that the talent just hasn't been here. It's why the 2018 class will be very revealing for us.

People have to get it into their heads that the notion that this year's class is better than 2011's is pure nonsense. We signed Adonis who was in the top 20 in the nation, and Stan Simpson, who was on par with any of the jucos we signed this year.

In 2012, we signed another top 50 player in Shaq, and Geron who was also highly regarded, so that class is head and shoulders better than this one.

It is a joke that in your examples that you mention players transferring out to try and downgrade Pastner's classes. The 5 players that transferred out played a total of 10 seasons for us. Tubby's 6 transfers lasted 1 season. Tubby's transfer rate stands at a sparkling 75% after 1 season, but and he will luck out this year because Rivers is graduating and won't be able to transfer out.

Pastner
3 - 2010
3 - 2012
10 - 2015
38 - 2016
54 - Total

Tubby
2016 - 300?
2017 - 55

Wake me up when Tubby manages to sign one decent class. Seriously.

Quote:2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

Pastner took on Keelon who brought in 2 top 50 recruits, with the promise of more to come. Tubby took on his useless kid to recruit D2 players. For the life of me I don't know why anyone would bring up Pastner hiring Keelon as a means of defending Tubby.

We aren't arguing that 2017 class is as better than the 2011 class. 247 says it is better. Now, it's true that 247's model does have issues, but most people still use it.

More important. This concept might help you. [1] Cherrypicking the the top three classes from seven years is rather meaningless statistically.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression...d_the_mean

You accusing me of cherry picking is bizarre to say the least considering that you have no qualms about completely ignoring basic facts that you know will blow your argument to smithereens.

Quote:2009 ranking #113 (worse than Tubby's first class, BTW). Zero local 5-stars, two local 4-stars (that he didn't get).

Pastner
Year 1 - Holds onto Coleman, brings in Elliot Williams as a transfer
Year 2 - Loses Sallie, Garcia and Niles, brings in the #3 class in the country

Tubby
Year 1 - Holds onto Rivers, brings in Rykhoek and Kessee as transfers
Year 2 - Loses Dedrick, KJ, Markell, Clergeot, Randall, brings in #55 class in the country

I would take every single one of Pastner's classes over any of Tubby's classes for the last ten years, including the ones that had the top 15 and top 44 player in their class that were laughably ranked lower than Tubby's class this year.

Does that qualify as cherry picking? Which of Tubby's classes from the last 10 years would you cherry pick as being any good at all?

(05-31-2017 04:14 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 03:38 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 03:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:05 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  MBB burns as Orlando fiddles.

2013 top 5 class
2014 38th and raked across the coals for it
2015 Top 10 class
2016 92nd (handful of scholarships not used)
2017 55th all but 3 active players left team.

Cal was the only coach to insulate recruiting from the ups/downs of local rankings. Pastner lived and died by how deep the local recruits were:

2009 ranking #113 (worse than Tubby's first class, BTW). Zero local 5-stars, two local 4-stars (that he didn't get).
2010 ranking #3. Got all three local 5's and 4's. The class that won him his extension and a lot of patience (thanks primarily to Joe).
2011 ranking #67. Got the one local 5, missed the two local 4's.
2012 ranking #49. Zero local 5's and missed the only local 4.
2013 ranking #3. Got the only local 5, and two of the four local 4's. (Of course, they all transferred out.)
2014 ranking #38. Zero local 5's and missed the two local 4's.
2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

You can see that Pastner had 4 classes comparable in rankings to this year's class. Pastner had the 2 big classes in years that local recruiting was deep. And he had the other #10 class by hiring daddy. The 4 other years were all down years on the local scene, and Pastner averaged a class ranked #67 in those years.

The last 2 years have been the weakest two in Memphis going back 10 years. There have been zero 5's and only two 4's. Similar to Pastner in those down years, our recruiting has suffered. Now this may be coincidence, as Tubby may not target Memphis kids in even strong years. But it could be that the talent just hasn't been here. It's why the 2018 class will be very revealing for us.

People have to get it into their heads that the notion that this year's class is better than 2011's is pure nonsense. We signed Adonis who was in the top 20 in the nation, and Stan Simpson, who was on par with any of the jucos we signed this year.

In 2012, we signed another top 50 player in Shaq, and Geron who was also highly regarded, so that class is head and shoulders better than this one.

It is a joke that in your examples that you mention players transferring out to try and downgrade Pastner's classes. The 5 players that transferred out played a total of 10 seasons for us. Tubby's 6 transfers lasted 1 season. Tubby's transfer rate stands at a sparkling 75% after 1 season, but and he will luck out this year because Rivers is graduating and won't be able to transfer out.

Pastner
3 - 2010
3 - 2012
10 - 2015
38 - 2016
54 - Total

Tubby
2016 - 300?
2017 - 55

Wake me up when Tubby manages to sign one decent class. Seriously.

Quote:2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

Pastner took on Keelon who brought in 2 top 50 recruits, with the promise of more to come. Tubby took on his useless kid to recruit D2 players. For the life of me I don't know why anyone would bring up Pastner hiring Keelon as a means of defending Tubby.

We aren't arguing that 2017 class is as better than the 2011 class. 247 says it is better. Now, it's true that 247's model does have issues, but most people still use it.

More important. This concept might help you. [1] Cherrypicking the the top three classes from seven years is rather meaningless statistically.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression...d_the_mean

You accusing me of cherry picking is bizarre to say the least considering that you have no qualms about completely ignoring basic facts that you know will blow your argument to smithereens.

Quote:2009 ranking #113 (worse than Tubby's first class, BTW). Zero local 5-stars, two local 4-stars (that he didn't get).

Pastner
Year 1 - Holds onto Coleman, brings in Elliot Williams as a transfer
Year 2 - Loses Sallie, Garcia and Niles, brings in the #3 class in the country

Tubby
Year 1 - Holds onto Rivers, brings in Rykhoek and Kessee as transfers
Year 2 - Loses Dedrick, KJ, Markell, Clergeot, Randall, brings in #55 class in the country

I would take every single one of Pastner's classes over any of Tubby's classes for the last ten years, including the ones that had the top 15 and top 44 player in their class that were laughably ranked lower than Tubby's class this year.

Does that qualify as cherry picking? Which of Tubby's classes from the last 10 years would you cherry pick as being any good at all?

Don't care ... I'll take Tubby over Pastner every day of the week.

(05-31-2017 03:59 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Who could have guessed that some of our fans would be singing the praises of Josh Pastner after he ran our program into the ground?

That Josh, he was so dreamy.

(05-31-2017 05:04 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 04:14 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 03:38 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 03:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Cal was the only coach to insulate recruiting from the ups/downs of local rankings. Pastner lived and died by how deep the local recruits were:

2009 ranking #113 (worse than Tubby's first class, BTW). Zero local 5-stars, two local 4-stars (that he didn't get).
2010 ranking #3. Got all three local 5's and 4's. The class that won him his extension and a lot of patience (thanks primarily to Joe).
2011 ranking #67. Got the one local 5, missed the two local 4's.
2012 ranking #49. Zero local 5's and missed the only local 4.
2013 ranking #3. Got the only local 5, and two of the four local 4's. (Of course, they all transferred out.)
2014 ranking #38. Zero local 5's and missed the two local 4's.
2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

You can see that Pastner had 4 classes comparable in rankings to this year's class. Pastner had the 2 big classes in years that local recruiting was deep. And he had the other #10 class by hiring daddy. The 4 other years were all down years on the local scene, and Pastner averaged a class ranked #67 in those years.

The last 2 years have been the weakest two in Memphis going back 10 years. There have been zero 5's and only two 4's. Similar to Pastner in those down years, our recruiting has suffered. Now this may be coincidence, as Tubby may not target Memphis kids in even strong years. But it could be that the talent just hasn't been here. It's why the 2018 class will be very revealing for us.

People have to get it into their heads that the notion that this year's class is better than 2011's is pure nonsense. We signed Adonis who was in the top 20 in the nation, and Stan Simpson, who was on par with any of the jucos we signed this year.

In 2012, we signed another top 50 player in Shaq, and Geron who was also highly regarded, so that class is head and shoulders better than this one.

It is a joke that in your examples that you mention players transferring out to try and downgrade Pastner's classes. The 5 players that transferred out played a total of 10 seasons for us. Tubby's 6 transfers lasted 1 season. Tubby's transfer rate stands at a sparkling 75% after 1 season, but and he will luck out this year because Rivers is graduating and won't be able to transfer out.

Pastner
3 - 2010
3 - 2012
10 - 2015
38 - 2016
54 - Total

Tubby
2016 - 300?
2017 - 55

Wake me up when Tubby manages to sign one decent class. Seriously.

Quote:2015 ranking #10. Missed the local 5, got two of the three local 4's (thru daddy).

Pastner took on Keelon who brought in 2 top 50 recruits, with the promise of more to come. Tubby took on his useless kid to recruit D2 players. For the life of me I don't know why anyone would bring up Pastner hiring Keelon as a means of defending Tubby.

We aren't arguing that 2017 class is as better than the 2011 class. 247 says it is better. Now, it's true that 247's model does have issues, but most people still use it.

More important. This concept might help you. [1] Cherrypicking the the top three classes from seven years is rather meaningless statistically.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression...d_the_mean

You accusing me of cherry picking is bizarre to say the least considering that you have no qualms about completely ignoring basic facts that you know will blow your argument to smithereens.

Quote:2009 ranking #113 (worse than Tubby's first class, BTW). Zero local 5-stars, two local 4-stars (that he didn't get).

Pastner
Year 1 - Holds onto Coleman, brings in Elliot Williams as a transfer
Year 2 - Loses Sallie, Garcia and Niles, brings in the #3 class in the country

Tubby
Year 1 - Holds onto Rivers, brings in Rykhoek and Kessee as transfers
Year 2 - Loses Dedrick, KJ, Markell, Clergeot, Randall, brings in #55 class in the country

I would take every single one of Pastner's classes over any of Tubby's classes for the last ten years, including the ones that had the top 15 and top 44 player in their class that were laughably ranked lower than Tubby's class this year.

Does that qualify as cherry picking? Which of Tubby's classes from the last 10 years would you cherry pick as being any good at all?

Don't care ... I'll take Tubby over Pastner every day of the week.

Agree. If Tubby had taken over after Calipari, he would certainly have much better recruiting results than he has so far. Once a brand name loses its luster it takes time to rebuild both the recruiting and fan base.