(05-10-2017 03:45 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: put (05-10-2017 03:19 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: As far as admission standards, quality of prospective students, etc. UC has become the 3 just trailing Miami for high performing students in the state now. As someone who attended the meeting of Admission Directors last week in Columbus due to professional obligations, that much has become incredibly clear. Truthfully, the demographics within the PUBLIC higher ed institutions in the state fall in this general ranking.
1. Ohio State (avg. profile: 3.8 UW GPA, 31.9 ACT)
2. Miami (3.6 UW GPA, 27.2 ACT)
3. Cincinnati (3.5 UW GPA, 26.1 ACT)
4. Ohio U (3.5 UW GPA, 25.2 ACT)
5A. Kent State (3.2 UW GPA, 24.0 ACT)
5B. BGSU (3.1 UW GPA, 23.9 ACT)
5C. Toledo (3.1 UW GPA, 23.5 ACT)
6. Akron (3.0 UW GPA, 20.9 ACT)
7A. Cleveland State (2.9 UW GPA, 19.5 ACT)
7B. Wright State (2.9 UW GPA, 19.3 ACT)
7C. Youngstown State (2.8 UW GPA, 18.9 ACT)
8A. Shawnee State (2.6 UW GPA, 17.9 ACT)
8B. Central State (2.4 UW GPA, 16.8 ACT)
Obviously these are unofficial until census day, but that's a pretty clear representation of this coming year.
So we've passed OU and are that close to Miami. Noissse! I knew there was a big gap between OSU and Miami, but I didn't think it was that big. Anyone see the movie Kingsman: The Secret Service? I'd have to imagine heads exploding like that in Oxford if UC passes them by.
On a serious note, what are your thoughts on my contention that the curve will flatten and gains will get harder a d harder as we go further into the deep end of the pool?
You're definitely on the right track. There are only a certain amount of higher performing kids in any state, but luckily Ohio has a bit higher population than most. I mean, there are over 500 kids coming into UT's class this year with ACT's over 30...they're out there, it's more a competition between financial aid packages and UC is notoriously stingy with their scholarship money, mainly because their donor funding goes into capital funds for facilities/improvements and not into endowments for scholarships. Then again, they're out in front of the discount rate dilemma that BGSU, UT, Akron, and Kent are having at the moment...so it's a double edged sword.
I see UC plateauing at a 27 avg. ACT, which is very nice (roughly 85th percentile). I don't see them ever passing by Miami due in large part to historic perception and their high powered recruitment presence in the Chicago suburbs and the Northeast. Also, I mis-typed, theirs is a 28.2 not a 27.2.
The biggest issue with higher performers is the programs they're going into...Engineering, Nursing, Health Sciences, and Business...being available at most every school in the state. For instance, if you're looking at programs, Engineering at UC is extremely similar in outcome rates (placement and average earnings) to Toledo and UT costs quite a bit less. With the upcoming generation having a more attuned sense of the value of a dollar due to the recession most of them grew up in, that does mean a ton.
Medicine is another one...many students realize that WHERE you're getting your undergraduate degree doesn't mean much anymore in Med School Admissions, so they're going to the lower cost options and performing as well with half the debt.
The bigger discussion now is how much raising the entrance standards destroys the general spirit of public education. Ohio State, Kent State, Miami, OU, and BGSU have gotten around the issue with their branch campus landing areas, but schools like Akron, Cincinnati, and Toledo, who have very limited space and/or resources to develop branch campuses can't afford doing things like that to buffer the educational quality of their incoming student populations.
Of course, with the continued poor budget performance of many of the small private schools in the state (I sincerely believe at least 6 of the small private schools in the state of Ohio will be non-existent in the next decade), there will be an influx of the higher performing small school students into the admission market in the coming years.
Last point, but a lot of students are feeding off of OSU's wait list now. It has gotten to the point that if you're a white, middle class student from Ohio you genuinely need to be in the 31-33 ACT range to not be waitlisted at OSU-Main. There are A TON of people in the 28-30 range coming to the secondary and tertiary options because of the slight they feel from OSU...but that's what happens when you start getting into the science of "class-shaping"