This is why (the KJ/Dedric/Keelon debacle) is so detrimental to recruiting at UM. I haven't seen the level of talent coming out of Memphis (Dedric was great but nowhere near "Penny" great) to justify the hype and the baggage that these kids bring. Yes recruit them, but don't fawn over them or sacrifice your good judgement about coaching and running the program to get them. I'm sick of this pandering to "Memphis Talent"!

Amen.

I feel this way more and more.

Like Tubby said on radio yesterday, Memphis talent is critical to his success.
He needs to learn how to handle the baggage or he will fail.

talk is cheap, though.

he hasn't really been going hard after Memphis kids, has he?

(04-14-2017 08:15 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  talk is cheap, though.

he hasn't really been going hard after Memphis kids, has he?

According to most sources he hasnt really been going hard after anyone. Joe has been going hard after the JUCO, but what high talent have they gone after outside of Memphis?

(04-14-2017 08:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:15 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  talk is cheap, though.

he hasn't really been going hard after Memphis kids, has he?

According to most sources he hasnt really been going hard after anyone. Joe has been going hard after the JUCO, but what high talent have they gone after outside of Memphis?

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

He needs to stay away from the Memphis talent: Memphis talent cost both Larry Finch and Josh Pastner their jobs. He needs to do like Cal and recruit every, every, few of them. None with daddies like Austin Nichols, or the Lawson's, Deuce Ford, Ted Anderson etc.... Marcus Nolan is another one, these guys are trouble for their team not the opponent.

The 3 star talent in the Memphis area has exceeded expectations. I would still recruit high level local talent - there is nothing worse than someone camping out in your backyard. However, I would make inroads with the 3 star talent in the Memphis area. Drive and motivation is there.

Let's just get this straight:

NOBODY outside of Cal has EVER done well WITHOUT MEMPHIS TALENT.

Bartow, Finch, Pastner all NEEDED Memphis-talent to do well.

Close to 90-95% of all U of M students come from the Memphis-area. I love the University of Memphis, but let's be honest: it is not a destination University and outside of Cal, the list of non-Memphis Tigers of merit is very, very limited:

Kenon, Shaq Goodwin, Will Barton, Omar Snead, Jermane Ousley.

Seriously, I made another thread awhile back and asked who were our best non-Memphis Tigers (who were NOT RECRUITED BY CAL) since Kenon and the list was VERY small.

No Memphis talent on the Tigers => no talent.

Part of the reason our program was what it was in terms of support is that many Memphis HS players WANTED to be Tigers and we did pretty darn well with Memphis-area Tigers.

(04-14-2017 09:26 PM)ddramone Wrote:  Let's just get this straight:

NOBODY outside of Cal has EVER done well WITHOUT MEMPHIS TALENT.

Bartow, Finch, Pastner all NEEDED Memphis-talent to do well.

Close to 90-95% of all U of M students come from the Memphis-area. I love the University of Memphis, but let's be honest: it is not a destination University and outside of Cal, the list of non-Memphis Tigers of merit is very, very limited:

Kenon, Shaq Goodwin, Will Barton, Omar Snead, Jermane Ousley.

Seriously, I made another thread awhile back and asked who were our best non-Memphis Tigers (who were NOT RECRUITED BY CAL) since Kenon and the list was VERY small.

No Memphis talent on the Tigers => no talent.

Part of the reason our program was what it was in terms of support is that many Memphis HS players WANTED to be Tigers and we did pretty darn well with Memphis-area Tigers.

Solid points...

(04-14-2017 08:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:15 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  talk is cheap, though.

he hasn't really been going hard after Memphis kids, has he?

According to most sources he hasnt really been going hard after anyone. Joe has been going hard after the JUCO, but what high talent have they gone after outside of Memphis?

so Jamal Johnson isn't a four-star?

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/3432

that's high level talent...

(04-14-2017 10:08 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:15 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  talk is cheap, though.

he hasn't really been going hard after Memphis kids, has he?

According to most sources he hasnt really been going hard after anyone. Joe has been going hard after the JUCO, but what high talent have they gone after outside of Memphis?

so Jamal Johnson isn't a four-star?

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/3432

that's high level talent...

He is 3* in every other recruiting rankings. Even Rivals has him outside the top 100. But hey, if that floats your boat, keep on sailing.

(04-14-2017 10:11 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 10:08 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:15 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  talk is cheap, though.

he hasn't really been going hard after Memphis kids, has he?

According to most sources he hasnt really been going hard after anyone. Joe has been going hard after the JUCO, but what high talent have they gone after outside of Memphis?

so Jamal Johnson isn't a four-star?

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/3432

that's high level talent...

He is 3* in every other recruiting rankings.

I've been using Rivals since the 90s...I don't plan on switching now.

(04-14-2017 09:15 PM)Smith Wrote:  He needs to stay away from the Memphis talent: Memphis talent cost both Larry Finch and Josh Pastner their jobs. He needs to do like Cal and recruit every, every, few of them. None with daddies like Austin Nichols, or the Lawson's, Deuce Ford, Ted Anderson etc.... Marcus Nolan is another one, these guys are trouble for their team not the opponent.

Memphis talent sure didn't hurt Kirk's teams. Also, many other high D-1 teams are heavily recruiting them. Some here seem to think that Memphis HS BB is unique in its problems. I hardly think so - recruiting is pretty slimy in every large urban area. It's just one distasteful aspect you have to put up with if you want to get good talent and compete on a national level.

(04-14-2017 10:41 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 09:15 PM)Smith Wrote:  He needs to stay away from the Memphis talent: Memphis talent cost both Larry Finch and Josh Pastner their jobs. He needs to do like Cal and recruit every, every, few of them. None with daddies like Austin Nichols, or the Lawson's, Deuce Ford, Ted Anderson etc.... Marcus Nolan is another one, these guys are trouble for their team not the opponent.

Memphis talent sure didn't hurt Kirk's teams. Also, many other high D-1 teams are heavily recruiting them. Some here seem to think that Memphis HS BB is unique in its problems. I hardly think so - recruiting is pretty slimy in every large urban area. It's just one distasteful aspect you have to put up with if you want to get good talent and compete on a national level.

You have to admit that the Memphis kids from the 80's are a different breed than 2017. Maybe having a NBA team has changed that? Maybe Cal's influence on high school recruiting seeds more deeply than most think (considering he did not recruit a lot of local talent)? Another conversation for another day.

(04-14-2017 10:52 PM)BigBlueTiger901 Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 10:41 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 09:15 PM)Smith Wrote:  He needs to stay away from the Memphis talent: Memphis talent cost both Larry Finch and Josh Pastner their jobs. He needs to do like Cal and recruit every, every, few of them. None with daddies like Austin Nichols, or the Lawson's, Deuce Ford, Ted Anderson etc.... Marcus Nolan is another one, these guys are trouble for their team not the opponent.

Memphis talent sure didn't hurt Kirk's teams. Also, many other high D-1 teams are heavily recruiting them. Some here seem to think that Memphis HS BB is unique in its problems. I hardly think so - recruiting is pretty slimy in every large urban area. It's just one distasteful aspect you have to put up with if you want to get good talent and compete on a national level.

You have to admit that the Memphis kids from the 80's are a different breed than 2017. Maybe having a NBA team has changed that? Maybe Cal's influence on high school recruiting seeds more deeply than most think (considering he did not recruit a lot of local talent)? Another conversation for another day.

I am curious in what ways are they a different breed? If I am not mistaken, the players from Kirk's teams had many and numerous off the court issues.

(04-14-2017 10:41 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 09:15 PM)Smith Wrote:  He needs to stay away from the Memphis talent: Memphis talent cost both Larry Finch and Josh Pastner their jobs. He needs to do like Cal and recruit every, every, few of them. None with daddies like Austin Nichols, or the Lawson's, Deuce Ford, Ted Anderson etc.... Marcus Nolan is another one, these guys are trouble for their team not the opponent.

Memphis talent sure didn't hurt Kirk's teams. Also, many other high D-1 teams are heavily recruiting them. Some here seem to think that Memphis HS BB is unique in its problems. I hardly think so - recruiting is pretty slimy in every large urban area. It's just one distasteful aspect you have to put up with if you want to get good talent and compete on a national level.

I think the point is that Memphis talent landing in Memphis with the families and hangers on leads to problems. A Memphis kid going to Duke, Kansas, UNC, Kentucky, or even Arkansas, Florida, etc gets them out of the environment of hangers on and creates fewer problems.

I don't know that I agree, but I do think you have to be selective in who you sign, and that goes for every recruit, not just Memphis kids.

(04-14-2017 10:08 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:15 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  talk is cheap, though.

he hasn't really been going hard after Memphis kids, has he?

According to most sources he hasnt really been going hard after anyone. Joe has been going hard after the JUCO, but what high talent have they gone after outside of Memphis?

so Jamal Johnson isn't a four-star?

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/3432

that's high level talent...

By all accounts, the kid can play. Serious talent, as you said.

(04-14-2017 10:41 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 09:15 PM)Smith Wrote:  He needs to stay away from the Memphis talent: Memphis talent cost both Larry Finch and Josh Pastner their jobs. He needs to do like Cal and recruit every, every, few of them. None with daddies like Austin Nichols, or the Lawson's, Deuce Ford, Ted Anderson etc.... Marcus Nolan is another one, these guys are trouble for their team not the opponent.

Memphis talent sure didn't hurt Kirk's teams. Also, many other high D-1 teams are heavily recruiting them. Some here seem to think that Memphis HS BB is unique in its problems. I hardly think so - recruiting is pretty slimy in every large urban area. It's just one distasteful aspect you have to put up with if you want to get good talent and compete on a national level.

Didn't hurt his teams, but it hurt him pretty much. He went to jail.