(04-12-2017 09:11 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 03:04 PM)H.U.S.T.L.E. Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 02:44 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Wait...

...so you're telling me the ACC can eliminate 2 teams from its most overcrowded state AND collect about $140 million in exit fees all by simply voting to boycott North Carolina?

Well, assuming you can collect all that money. Maryland didn't end up paying the original amount, so I don't see why any future situation would be different.

It's an endlessly intriguing "what if" scenario though.

A GOR that runs into the 2030's is a major difference. Are they going to give their decade & a half notice?

I'm sure we could withhold $140 million from them in 19 years.

(04-12-2017 09:13 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 09:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 08:37 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 08:01 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  I think the State of North Carolina is pissed... It would seem to me that if this becomes state law, the ACC and NCAA better not mess with the state of North Carolina again or the SEC or BIG may decide to expand!!

I think that it was dumb for the conference to get into politics, and the same goes for the NCAA. However, this proposed law is toothless for a number of reasons.

Unfortunately the Conference and the NCAA have already gotten into politics when they shouldn't have.

Discrimination of every kind is illegal.

No, it isn't. And what North Carolina Republicans are asserting is that they can discriminate against anyone they damn well please unless it is expressly forbidden by federal law and no county, city or any other political subdivision in the state can unilaterally change that within its own jurisdiction. And even some things that are forbidden by federal law they may try to do anyway and force the federal government to stop them.

Seems pretty dumb. Not all that much more dumb than the ACC and NCAA taking political positions that are blatantly hypocritical though. I don't like the move, but I find it impossible to cheer for the ACC or the NCAA in this one either.

A pox on both their houses.

A pox on both their houses is an enormous cop out. The NC General Assembly has some very unsavory characters in it but the handful of vile radicals behind this law are basically secessionists. That isn't hyperbole either.

NC legislator compares Abraham Lincoln to Hitler

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politic...16324.html

(04-12-2017 09:40 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 09:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 08:37 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 08:01 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  I think the State of North Carolina is pissed... It would seem to me that if this becomes state law, the ACC and NCAA better not mess with the state of North Carolina again or the SEC or BIG may decide to expand!!

I think that it was dumb for the conference to get into politics, and the same goes for the NCAA. However, this proposed law is toothless for a number of reasons.

Unfortunately the Conference and the NCAA have already gotten into politics when they shouldn't have.

TRUE. You cannot lie down with a dog and expect to avoid getting fleas.
Politics makes for strange bedfellows.

The ACC may have meddled in politics, but that doesn't mean that it should moving forward.

Still, this piece of proposed legislation is toothless. A 3rd grader w/ a bright red crayon could find loopholes in it.

(04-12-2017 10:48 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  A pox on both their houses is an enormous cop out.

I disagree. I will vote my conscience relentlessly. Haven't voted for a major party candidate for President in my voting lifetime yet because there hasn't been one who actually made it to the general I considered worth my vote. And frankly, given that SC is going red regardless, voting third party is the tactical vote anyway because blah blah automatic ballot access blah blah federal funds blah blah other unrelated political stuff that's off topic here.

(04-12-2017 10:52 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  NC legislator compares Abraham Lincoln to Hitler

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politic...16324.html

The comparison is hyperbole and in poor taste obviously.

But let's not pretend Lincoln was some saint either. He said some vile racist stuff even after the Emancipation Proclamation. The Civil War (as nearly all wars are) was as much rooted in economics as slavery. His removal of habeas corpus was unacceptable. He ran concentration camps and put journalists in them he disagreed with. Even if you want to ignore a big chunk of history and say he fought a just war for the right reasons ... his behavior during that war was as reprehensible as the act of slavery itself.

(04-12-2017 09:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 09:13 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 09:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 08:37 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 08:01 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  I think the State of North Carolina is pissed... It would seem to me that if this becomes state law, the ACC and NCAA better not mess with the state of North Carolina again or the SEC or BIG may decide to expand!!

I think that it was dumb for the conference to get into politics, and the same goes for the NCAA. However, this proposed law is toothless for a number of reasons.

Unfortunately the Conference and the NCAA have already gotten into politics when they shouldn't have.

Discrimination of every kind is illegal.

No, it isn't. And what North Carolina Republicans are asserting is that they can discriminate against anyone they damn well please unless it is expressly forbidden by federal law and no county, city or any other political subdivision in the state can unilaterally change that within its own jurisdiction. And even some things that are forbidden by federal law they may try to do anyway and force the federal government to stop them.

Echoing your first sentence, not only are many forms of discrimination legal, they're often commonplace.

Non-controversial example: organizations discriminate based on talent all the time.
Controversial example: except where forbidden by state law (which isn't everywhere), companies can discriminate based on sexual orientation.

Still, I maintain that NC politics aren't the ACC's business, except to the extent that they have a tangible impact on collegiate athletics of member institutions. And, it's not clear to me that HB2 does.

(04-12-2017 11:28 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Still, I maintain that NC politics aren't the ACC's business, except to the extent that they have a tangible impact on collegiate athletics of member institutions. And, it's not clear to me that HB2 does.

Maybe I'm in the minority here then, but I don't see how the ACC could have stood by and done nothing.

And I believe HB2 did have a tangible impact on the ACC's ability to host events - when the state of North Carolina allows discriminatory practices that could potentially affect your fans or create a situation where athletes feel uncomfortable, I think they had to take action.

And going to the first line of your post that I quoted, the ACC's stance is almost entirely about business. Maybe that's what rubs people the wrong way, but to think that college athletics is mostly about dollars at this point is hoping for a time that just isn't coming back in the foreseeable future. And for what it's worth, the ACC wasn't alone in making decisions like this, as there were major companies that decided against bringing their business to the state based on HB2.

We can't sit on this board, debate and talk about how the ACC can close the revenue gap with other conferences, then turn around and say the ACC shouldn't have a say in NC politics when those are laws that affect the BUSINESS of the conference in tangible ways.

(04-12-2017 09:13 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 09:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 08:37 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 08:01 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  I think the State of North Carolina is pissed... It would seem to me that if this becomes state law, the ACC and NCAA better not mess with the state of North Carolina again or the SEC or BIG may decide to expand!!

I think that it was dumb for the conference to get into politics, and the same goes for the NCAA. However, this proposed law is toothless for a number of reasons.

Unfortunately the Conference and the NCAA have already gotten into politics when they shouldn't have.

Discrimination of every kind is illegal.

Discrimination?
Do you realize that in today's world that it's OK for a know or suspected pervert to assist your 4-5 year old child as a teacher or aide to go to the bathroom alone and behind closed doors unless there is a "rule" against it? Or that is really is not "illegal" for a Sandusky to take your 12 year old son into a shower alone if there is no rule against it?

Homosexual men do not use women's restrooms/showers.
Homosexual women do not use men's restrooms/showers.
Bi-sexual individuals do not use the restrooms/showers of the opposite sex.
Without a "rule" against it ANYONE can CLAIM to be transgender at that point in time and walk into any restroom or shower they want at anytime without any repercussion, and you call that discrimination? What about the rights of the individuals that may be in that facility at the same time? And without a rule against it, that same person could sue the institution/business for discrimination because they didn't respect that they happened to be feeling like a man (or a woman) at that particular point in time (even thought that isn't their biological gender).

Cincy and UConn are co-sponsoring the bill

(04-13-2017 07:21 AM)H.U.S.T.L.E. Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 11:28 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Still, I maintain that NC politics aren't the ACC's business, except to the extent that they have a tangible impact on collegiate athletics of member institutions. And, it's not clear to me that HB2 does.

Maybe I'm in the minority here then, but I don't see how the ACC could have stood by and done nothing.

And I believe HB2 did have a tangible impact on the ACC's ability to host events - when the state of North Carolina allows discriminatory practices that could potentially affect your fans or create a situation where athletes feel uncomfortable, I think they had to take action.

And going to the first line of your post that I quoted, the ACC's stance is almost entirely about business. Maybe that's what rubs people the wrong way, but to think that college athletics is mostly about dollars at this point is hoping for a time that just isn't coming back in the foreseeable future. And for what it's worth, the ACC wasn't alone in making decisions like this, as there were major companies that decided against bringing their business to the state based on HB2.

We can't sit on this board, debate and talk about how the ACC can close the revenue gap with other conferences, then turn around and say the ACC shouldn't have a say in NC politics when those are laws that affect the BUSINESS of the conference in tangible ways.

1. Making people feel uncomfortable is far too broad a standard. I feel uncomfortable when the guy in front of me drives slow. Should the ACC boycott any state w/ low speed limits and/or no minimum speed limits?

2. The decision to boycott NC clearly wasn't about business. The ACC lost millions of dollars by pulling out of the state. I argue that if the ACC wants to close the gap, then it needs to stop making social stands and focus instead on value-driving activities.

If other groups/coalitions of universities w/ social mandates, universities, or individuals want to take a stand then they should absolutely do what they think is right - even if they're ACC member institutions. But the ACC itself should stick to athletics.

(04-13-2017 07:21 AM)H.U.S.T.L.E. Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 11:28 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Still, I maintain that NC politics aren't the ACC's business, except to the extent that they have a tangible impact on collegiate athletics of member institutions. And, it's not clear to me that HB2 does.

Maybe I'm in the minority here then, but I don't see how the ACC could have stood by and done nothing.

And I believe HB2 did have a tangible impact on the ACC's ability to host events - when the state of North Carolina allows discriminatory practices that could potentially affect your fans or create a situation where athletes feel uncomfortable, I think they had to take action.

Is this a serious statement? Who was being discriminated against?

Dumbest bill ever created and a waste of taxpayer money. Need to get all these partition idiots out and get individuals in who really want to represent the people. By the way if you don't think transsexuals haven't been using the facilities they identify with prior to this bs, then you are extremely naive. And, for those crowing about protecting the wife and children, where have you been for the past half century or two? Bad things happen to good people all the time and it most certainly not going to stop because of some ill conceived law.

UNC and NC State fans, what Conference would you guys want to go to if this dumb bill passes?

(04-13-2017 09:18 AM)Huskypride Wrote:  UNC and NC State fans, what Conference would you guys want to go to if this dumb bill passes?

That's an interesting question.

But I do want to point out that this is proposed bill is worded extremely poorly, and both schools could effectively remain in the ACC indefinitely, regardless of the bill and any ACC boycott. I see MASSIVE loopholes.

(04-13-2017 10:25 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-13-2017 09:18 AM)Huskypride Wrote:  UNC and NC State fans, what Conference would you guys want to go to if this dumb bill passes?

That's an interesting question.

But I do want to point out that this is proposed bill is worded extremely poorly, and both schools could effectively remain in the ACC indefinitely, regardless of the bill and any ACC boycott. I see MASSIVE loopholes.

And it has now been sent to committee, from where it will never likely reappear.

(04-13-2017 10:25 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-13-2017 09:18 AM)Huskypride Wrote:  UNC and NC State fans, what Conference would you guys want to go to if this dumb bill passes?

That's an interesting question.

But I do want to point out that this is proposed bill is worded extremely poorly, and both schools could effectively remain in the ACC indefinitely, regardless of the bill and any ACC boycott. I see MASSIVE loopholes.

They might be a better fit in the PAC12.

Cue up The Dude and his rampant Death to The ACC hogwash. I would expect The UNC to the not so Big 12 rumors to be churning shortly

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