(03-04-2017 01:39 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: (03-04-2017 01:06 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: So this morning trump's Tweet storm basically confirmed that the FISA court granted a warrant to investigate communications between his campaign and Russian assets. FISA court doesn't grant those warrants without probably cause...
You missed the part where the first request was denied in June, then potentially granted in October. And, to be blunt, the FISA taps are known to be somewhat a slam dunk. The standard for a FISA tap falls far short of the standard you quote above. Please get the facts straight amidst the rhetoric. But I understand why bother when the main purpose is to create a smokestorm..... But, Obama needed to go back a second time......
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/44...mp-wiretap
Just going to say it:
If it can be shown that there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the what came out of Podesta's dumb=ss move, then Trump needs to go.
But the implication of if there is no collusion, then Obama has engaged in the biggest and most grotesque abuse of Executive power for political purposes ---- ever. Even more so than the weaponization of the IRS that was undertaken.
But it is amazing that one was turned down in June. Changes the landscape for me. Won't for many though I assume....
So I want to address this a bit more, especially the part about the request being turned down in June and that implication.
I read the National Review article, it said what I thought it would, and you can tell which side of the aisle each of us are on, based on our initial reactions to the sequence of events. In my mind, I'm less concerned that the FISA order was used as a political tool because the FISA order was not granted originally, and then after it was revised, and potentially other evidence was produced, it was granted. I imagine that the FISA court wanted to be extra careful in granting the wiretap due to the appearance of, or actual use of, the wiretap to target political enemies. So while it is often a slam dunk, I bet they wanted to have their ducks in a row for this request - hence the initial rejection and subsequent granting.
I agree with you that if it comes out that the FISA request was done to try and sink the Trump campaign, then it will be the biggest abuse of power ever.
However, I'm less inclined to believe that this was the case due to: (1) the fact that Trump won, so man, was this a waste of effort!; (2) the Alfa bank server connection that is referenced in the NR article; (3) all of the connections to Russia that are strewn throughout the Trump administration; and (4) the pivot on Ukraine that has now been verified as coming from Trump himself.
Plus, the NYTimes article about the Obama administration spreading Russia intel out through the intelligence world indicated that they found out too late that some of the Russia connections appeared to have real legs, which helps strengthen the idea that either they went back to get the FISA tap, or perhaps the FISA tap provided significant evidence.
All of those lines of evidence point to me being less worried that this was an overreach by the Obama admin.
But again, if evidence comes out that Big O did this as a political move, I'm onboard with your evaluation of its implications.