great post, Wear Purple. the Convo is pretty much the worst. a new basketball arena has nothing to do with FBS. we need one regardless of what conference we're in. we would need one even if we didn't have a football team.

(02-15-2017 11:02 AM)Jay M. Youix Wrote:  we need one regardless of what conference we're in. we would need one even if we didn't have a football team.

Why?

Pie-in-the-sky question.

What would everyone expect attendance to be if we got to the point where we were Top-25 or Top-50 in the country. If we were ranked in the Top-25, would we have 10,000 fans show up to all of the home games? Certainly weekend games. But weeknight games? Against Towson? Delaware? CAA slate of games?

What size arena from a financials perspective would JMU really need? Would the cheapest tickets ever get to $100 per game? At 7,000 seat arena? 10,000? 12,000? What number would JMU cap the students at? You'd rather have a bunch of people paying a minimum vs. a smaller crowd paying a premium I would think? For purposes of fundraising/culture building. Even if we get to a Top-25 ranking, I don't ever see us getting $100-200 a ticket like UVA gets to play teams in the ACC. What does Gonzaga/St. Marys/Creighton have ticket prices set at?

Tough to plan and they'll be critics on both sides...if we continue to suck, what does 2,000 fans look like in a 10,000 arena. it's bad enough in 6500 arena! I'm sure they'll be plans for a curtain just in case.

Excited to have it in the works. But I'm also in the crowd of wanting Bridgeforth finished. Could they put $25 million into the Convo and make it work for 10-20 more years? Spend the other $50 on Bridgeforth? Honest question?!

(02-15-2017 02:09 PM)DukedoG06 Wrote:  Pie-in-the-sky question.

What would everyone expect attendance to be if we got to the point where we were Top-25 or Top-50 in the country. If we were ranked in the Top-25, would we have 10,000 fans show up to all of the home games? Certainly weekend games. But weeknight games? Against Towson? Delaware? CAA slate of games?

What size arena from a financials perspective would JMU really need? Would the cheapest tickets ever get to $100 per game? At 7,000 seat arena? 10,000? 12,000? What number would JMU cap the students at? You'd rather have a bunch of people paying a minimum vs. a smaller crowd paying a premium I would think? For purposes of fundraising/culture building. Even if we get to a Top-25 ranking, I don't ever see us getting $100-200 a ticket like UVA gets to play teams in the ACC. What does Gonzaga/St. Marys/Creighton have ticket prices set at?

Tough to plan and they'll be critics on both sides...if we continue to suck, what does 2,000 fans look like in a 10,000 arena. it's bad enough in 6500 arena! I'm sure they'll be plans for a curtain just in case.

Excited to have it in the works. But I'm also in the crowd of wanting Bridgeforth finished. Could they put $25 million into the Convo and make it work for 10-20 more years? Spend the other $50 on Bridgeforth? Honest question?!

that same argument can be made for BFS.

you build it to 42,000, are we going to fill that? how is 22k going to look in a 42k stadium? Just as bad as hoops

I'd build hoops first. a new arena WILL help the program. a ton.

and its not just for basketball. it will be used for other purposes. JMU is a 20,000+ university that is still growing.

how many other 20,000+ universities (that are not commuter schools) play in dumps? not many, if any at all.

I would say for a school our size we are wholly unique in playing in an outdated "dump" of a basketball arena. most schools this size play in multi purpose, fairly modern arenas. It needs to be done ASAP. Whether the team is winning 10 games, or 25 per year.

(02-15-2017 02:45 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(02-15-2017 02:09 PM)DukedoG06 Wrote:  Pie-in-the-sky question.

What would everyone expect attendance to be if we got to the point where we were Top-25 or Top-50 in the country. If we were ranked in the Top-25, would we have 10,000 fans show up to all of the home games? Certainly weekend games. But weeknight games? Against Towson? Delaware? CAA slate of games?

What size arena from a financials perspective would JMU really need? Would the cheapest tickets ever get to $100 per game? At 7,000 seat arena? 10,000? 12,000? What number would JMU cap the students at? You'd rather have a bunch of people paying a minimum vs. a smaller crowd paying a premium I would think? For purposes of fundraising/culture building. Even if we get to a Top-25 ranking, I don't ever see us getting $100-200 a ticket like UVA gets to play teams in the ACC. What does Gonzaga/St. Marys/Creighton have ticket prices set at?

Tough to plan and they'll be critics on both sides...if we continue to suck, what does 2,000 fans look like in a 10,000 arena. it's bad enough in 6500 arena! I'm sure they'll be plans for a curtain just in case.

Excited to have it in the works. But I'm also in the crowd of wanting Bridgeforth finished. Could they put $25 million into the Convo and make it work for 10-20 more years? Spend the other $50 on Bridgeforth? Honest question?!

that same argument can be made for BFS.

you built it to 42,000, are we going to fill that? how is 22k going to look in a 42k stadium? Just as bad as hoops

I'd built hoops first. a new arena WILL help the program. a ton.

and its not just for basketball. it will be used for other purposes. JMU is a 20,000+ university that is still growing.

how many other 20,000+ universities (that are not commuter schools) play in dumps? not many, if any at all.

I would say for a school our size we are wholly unique in playing in an outdated "dump" of a basketball arena. most schools this size play in multi purpose, fairly modern arenas. It needs to be done ASAP. Whether the team is winning 10 games, or 25 per year.

How would you compare Cassell Collusiem and the Patriot Dome with the convocation center?

I'm not sure how anyone can seriously argue that JMU should expand BFS before replacing the Convo. BFS is a great facility that suits our current needs, both in size and amenities. We basically had a waiting list of thousands prior to BFS expansion. That type of unmet demand will not likely happen again until there's a significant change in conference affiliation.

(02-15-2017 03:09 PM)JMUETC Wrote:  

(02-15-2017 02:45 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(02-15-2017 02:09 PM)DukedoG06 Wrote:  Pie-in-the-sky question.

What would everyone expect attendance to be if we got to the point where we were Top-25 or Top-50 in the country. If we were ranked in the Top-25, would we have 10,000 fans show up to all of the home games? Certainly weekend games. But weeknight games? Against Towson? Delaware? CAA slate of games?

What size arena from a financials perspective would JMU really need? Would the cheapest tickets ever get to $100 per game? At 7,000 seat arena? 10,000? 12,000? What number would JMU cap the students at? You'd rather have a bunch of people paying a minimum vs. a smaller crowd paying a premium I would think? For purposes of fundraising/culture building. Even if we get to a Top-25 ranking, I don't ever see us getting $100-200 a ticket like UVA gets to play teams in the ACC. What does Gonzaga/St. Marys/Creighton have ticket prices set at?

Tough to plan and they'll be critics on both sides...if we continue to suck, what does 2,000 fans look like in a 10,000 arena. it's bad enough in 6500 arena! I'm sure they'll be plans for a curtain just in case.

Excited to have it in the works. But I'm also in the crowd of wanting Bridgeforth finished. Could they put $25 million into the Convo and make it work for 10-20 more years? Spend the other $50 on Bridgeforth? Honest question?!

that same argument can be made for BFS.

you built it to 42,000, are we going to fill that? how is 22k going to look in a 42k stadium? Just as bad as hoops

I'd built hoops first. a new arena WILL help the program. a ton.

and its not just for basketball. it will be used for other purposes. JMU is a 20,000+ university that is still growing.

how many other 20,000+ universities (that are not commuter schools) play in dumps? not many, if any at all.

I would say for a school our size we are wholly unique in playing in an outdated "dump" of a basketball arena. most schools this size play in multi purpose, fairly modern arenas. It needs to be done ASAP. Whether the team is winning 10 games, or 25 per year.

How would you compare Cassell Collusiem and the Patriot Dome with the convocation center?

the Rent A Center is much nicer than the Convo. Which is the point. How does a commuter school with half the on campus students as ours have such a better facility?

I've never been to Cassell, so I can't speak of it. But on TV, sure looks like they have chairbacks throughout and I'm sure they have better concessions, scoreboards, sound, locker rooms, etc. May not look so great on TV, but compared to the Convo, I'm sure it's much better.

Patriot Center


Cassell Coliseum (floor looks a little dated, but stands and video boards consistent with today's configuration)


JMU Convo

I am certainly not advocating for a BFS expansion before a new arena but I just feel that it makes more sense to get a good coach ($$$) and build the program before spending the $88M.

I don't feel that eagle bank arena and cassell are much nicer than the convo. eagle bank arena is 3 years younger and cassell is 20 years older than the convo.

Also: just realized this is a major thread jack. Sorry about that.

Good on the Admin for doling out much deserved raises.

GMU & VPI&SU both have arenas that aren't major fire hazards for attendees. Despite age, those two arenas are both leaps & bounds better than JMU's convo. I really like how Cassell has seats creeping up to the ceiling in the corners. When they show shots from the court-level, those corners filled with students look awesome.

(02-15-2017 03:50 PM)JMUETC Wrote:  I am certainly not advocating for a BFS expansion before a new arena but I just feel that it makes more sense to get a good coach ($$$) and build the program before spending the $88M.

I don't feel that eagle bank arena and cassell are much nicer than the convo. eagle bank arena is 3 years younger and cassell is 20 years older than the convo.

Also: just realized this is a major thread jack. Sorry about that.

Good on the Admin for doling out much deserved raises.

Build it and they will come! Give Rowe a chance; the fat lady doesn't sing until March. Look what we did in 2013 - we won the tournament.

We need to replace the convo for no other reason than this...

We only have two basketball goals for the teams to use during practice. I know part of Kenny's frustrations (along with COAs) was the fact that his team lost practice time because of the conflicts that always came up between the two teams needing to use the only two goals available for intercollegiate basketball. The women lost practices last year because of this issue. That's unacceptable in a D-1 program. Not getting enough practice time, actually shooting the ball, has definitely shown in the men's team. Most D-1 programs have 4-8 goals to use during practice. This problem cannot be rectified at the convo because of the extremely flawed sunken court design. You would have to lug goals up and down the access ramps every practice. That's not practical. They need a new arena, bad! The new facility has multiple practice courts that are included in the design with, yes, more goals.

(02-15-2017 04:34 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  You would have to lug goals up and down the access ramps every practice. That's not practical.

I just assumed this was what happened. Never attended a bball practice. You're telling me there's literally one court (2 hoops) for both basketball teams on-campus that we use for practices? I just assumed they brought down portable goals to make better use of the space for practices. While it's a pain, I'm more surprised that the teams DON'T do this. I assumed they did.

(02-15-2017 03:09 PM)JMUETC Wrote:  

(02-15-2017 02:45 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(02-15-2017 02:09 PM)DukedoG06 Wrote:  Pie-in-the-sky question.

What would everyone expect attendance to be if we got to the point where we were Top-25 or Top-50 in the country. If we were ranked in the Top-25, would we have 10,000 fans show up to all of the home games? Certainly weekend games. But weeknight games? Against Towson? Delaware? CAA slate of games?

What size arena from a financials perspective would JMU really need? Would the cheapest tickets ever get to $100 per game? At 7,000 seat arena? 10,000? 12,000? What number would JMU cap the students at? You'd rather have a bunch of people paying a minimum vs. a smaller crowd paying a premium I would think? For purposes of fundraising/culture building. Even if we get to a Top-25 ranking, I don't ever see us getting $100-200 a ticket like UVA gets to play teams in the ACC. What does Gonzaga/St. Marys/Creighton have ticket prices set at?

Tough to plan and they'll be critics on both sides...if we continue to suck, what does 2,000 fans look like in a 10,000 arena. it's bad enough in 6500 arena! I'm sure they'll be plans for a curtain just in case.

Excited to have it in the works. But I'm also in the crowd of wanting Bridgeforth finished. Could they put $25 million into the Convo and make it work for 10-20 more years? Spend the other $50 on Bridgeforth? Honest question?!

that same argument can be made for BFS.

you built it to 42,000, are we going to fill that? how is 22k going to look in a 42k stadium? Just as bad as hoops

I'd built hoops first. a new arena WILL help the program. a ton.

and its not just for basketball. it will be used for other purposes. JMU is a 20,000+ university that is still growing.

how many other 20,000+ universities (that are not commuter schools) play in dumps? not many, if any at all.

I would say for a school our size we are wholly unique in playing in an outdated "dump" of a basketball arena. most schools this size play in multi purpose, fairly modern arenas. It needs to be done ASAP. Whether the team is winning 10 games, or 25 per year.

How would you compare Cassell Collusiem and the Patriot Dome with the convocation center?

You really think it's a dome? Not sure why it would be considered a Patriot "dome". I think of it as the Patriot Rent a Center.

(02-15-2017 03:37 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  Patriot Center


Cassell Coliseum (floor looks a little dated, but stands and video boards consistent with today's configuration)


JMU Convo

We shouldn't call it the Convo. It looks more like a car port to me.

Cassell Coliseum is terrible. It's basically a slightly bigger Convo with some better seating.

(02-15-2017 08:32 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  A few observations...

1. First, Cameron Indoor Stadium is far from a "crap BB arena". A little over a decade ago Duke faced the decision of whether to build a new coliseum like UNCheat did with the Dean Dome that would hold 20K fans. They chose instead to keep what they have but remodel the inside to where it is like a palace now. Just because it is an old structure and intimate setting, don't be fooled into thinking it is "crap" because it isn't. Duke made the smart decision that revenue would be generated by limiting supply of seats which drives the contributions to qualify to get those seats.

2. The Convo is a dump plain and simple. JMU absolutely needs a more modern indoor facility for hoops and whatever other uses. Doesn't matter to me whether we are or are not on par with anybody else. JMU deserves a better facility than what we have now.

3. As far as financials comparing hoops to FB to justify salary increases to staff and such, that is useless. Even in the height of best attendance 25 years ago under Lefty, as pointed out in a recent post exhibiting average game attendance by season, JMU was drawing around 6K fans to the Convo. BFS will hold 4 times that on any given home game. Even if JMU Hoops somehow gets back to averaging 4K fans from the bottoming out (I hope) we are seeing right now with attendance less than 3K per game, it will take 6 home games to equal one Saturday afternoon at BFS. Plus, there are a helluva lot more contributions coming into the Duke Club via FB than MBB. JMU can have its cake and eat it too. Meaning, we can and should be good in FB AND MBB. But, they are not apples-to-apples comparisons - especially not right now - as FB is driving the bus and appears will be for the foreseeable future. Side note, I still say those wanting JMU to move to D1A FB need to spend more time pushing for the MBB program to get better and show more interest in it. It's a total package. Not just FB when other conferences are considering you.

A) I'd say we "deserve" a lot of things. A new building for the College of Business for starters. How about better living facilities for our students than the crap Village? Can we give a facelift to Eagle while we're at it? It's such an eyesore and it's right there in plain view of 81. Yech.

Would I like a new Convo? Sure. Do we need a new Convo? Not for where we appear to be for the foreseeable future. Serious questions: (i) who in the CAA has a better facility, and (ii) if we are not leaving the CAA, why exactly do we "deserve" better?

B) Other conferences can consider us all they want. We're not considering them. Hence the lack of a need to spend $88M so we can sell the same number of bball tickets we sell today, and maybe host a Travis Tritt concert and a tractor show now and then. We'd have an $88M facility and a $260K coach. We've done nothing on either side of the hoops program in terms of financial support to show we're actually committed to winning, which in my mind makes the new facility a vanity project pure and simple.

But what do I know?

(02-15-2017 04:45 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(02-15-2017 04:34 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  You would have to lug goals up and down the access ramps every practice. That's not practical.

I just assumed this was what happened. Never attended a bball practice. You're telling me there's literally one court (2 hoops) for both basketball teams on-campus that we use for practices? I just assumed they brought down portable goals to make better use of the space for practices. While it's a pain, I'm more surprised that the teams DON'T do this. I assumed they did.

Hyper, this is my understanding as well. The practice situation is horrendous.

JMU showing they will reward good coaches who run a clean program and graduate student athletes.

(02-15-2017 06:53 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(02-15-2017 04:45 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(02-15-2017 04:34 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  You would have to lug goals up and down the access ramps every practice. That's not practical.

I just assumed this was what happened. Never attended a bball practice. You're telling me there's literally one court (2 hoops) for both basketball teams on-campus that we use for practices? I just assumed they brought down portable goals to make better use of the space for practices. While it's a pain, I'm more surprised that the teams DON'T do this. I assumed they did.

Hyper, this is my understanding as well. The practice situation is horrendous.

For a couple hundred grand we could get a tennis bubble and cover several practice courts right next to the convo.