(02-08-2017 12:25 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  Then either Murphy flat-out lied in the press conference where he complained about having to play so many non-D1 games, or your first-hand hearing of stuff, without any details, is inaccurate.

Sam, there's a possibility that Murphy is truthful. I am sure he went to the Ad and asked for more money to beef up the schedule and Lyke could have refused.

(02-08-2017 12:25 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  Then either Murphy flat-out lied in the press conference where he complained about having to play so many non-D1 games, or your first-hand hearing of stuff, without any details, is inaccurate.

No matter who controls the schedule the rules remain the same ... MAC mandates 15 home games ... unless AD plays even more power conference teams for $$$ to pay other mid-majors to play in Ypsi the original problem remains ...

And if this is the plan going forward, not sure none but the most desperate coaches out there would sign on for it should RM get the toe of the boot.

(02-08-2017 12:03 PM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 11:53 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 11:43 AM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  Unless I missed something, looks like the buy-out would be the remainder of his as annual salary that hasn't been paid to date.

Very affordable buyout, then. Could be done at the end of season with no extra money spent.

Yep, each term ends on March 31. So it's doable.

1) Frank, I am very impressed by the level of nerdiness to lookup the actual contract. You make all EMU alumni proud. And thanks for finding.

2) You raise an excellent point that the "term" of the agreement automocally extends 1 year each season that has 20 or more wins. Putting Murphy under contract through 2018-19. The new end of the "term".

3) I think you are incorrect on the buyout. It will be lesser of 1 year pay or the remaining amount due on the contract. That is to say, if we were at one month left in his contract (Feb 2019), EMU does not have to pay him 1 years pay but just the remaining 1 month. In short, buyout is 1 year.

It is good to know that this is not the final year on Murphy's contract. Thanks again.
This really changes the tone of the conversation. The question no longer is, has Murphy been good enough to warrant a renewal? But rather is, has Murphy been bad enough to warrant a dismissal?

One more note, the contract also extends for a year where EMU earns post-season play. I believe EMU was invited last year to one of the tournaments but declined. Was this true, and does the invitation extend the contract to 2019-20?

(02-08-2017 07:31 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 12:03 PM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 11:53 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 11:43 AM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  Unless I missed something, looks like the buy-out would be the remainder of his as annual salary that hasn't been paid to date.

Very affordable buyout, then. Could be done at the end of season with no extra money spent.

Yep, each term ends on March 31. So it's doable.

1) Frank, I am very impressed by the level of nerdiness to lookup the actual contract. You make all EMU alumni proud. And thanks for finding.

2) You raise an excellent point that the "term" of the agreement automocally extends 1 year each season that has 20 or more wins. Putting Murphy under contract through 2018-19. The new end of the "term".

3) I think you are incorrect on the buyout. It will be lesser of 1 year pay or the remaining amount due on the contract. That is to say, if we were at one month left in his contract (Feb 2019), EMU does not have to pay him 1 years pay but just the remaining 1 month. In short, buyout is 1 year.

It is good to know that this is not the final year on Murphy's contract. Thanks again.
This really changes the tone of the conversation. The question no longer is, has Murphy been good enough to warrant a renewal? But rather is, has Murphy been bad enough to warrant a dismissal?

One more note, the contract also extends for a year where EMU earns post-season play. I believe EMU was invited last year to one of the tournaments but declined. Was this true, and does the invitation extend the contract to 2019-20?

I forget what I know... (Lol).

I believe Murphy's contract expires after next year although one could try to figure out the extensions and figure if they come to 2018.

I believe the buyout is one year. Don't know why I think that. Think I once downloaded a copy of the contract but don't have it not.

Interesting but fans here seem to feel that Murphy is on the hot seat but Keno Davis is now.

I don't see much difference in their conference records...

(02-08-2017 08:27 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Interesting but fans here seem to feel that Murphy is on the hot seat but Keno Davis is now.

I don't see much difference in their conference records...

Keno Davis won the MAC regular season title 2 years ago, and the West division title last year. He is having a rebuilding year while EMU has the most talent it has in years, yet CMU is 1 game better. If you can sincerely compare the 2, I would be sincerely consider your arguments.

(02-08-2017 09:31 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 08:27 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Interesting but fans here seem to feel that Murphy is on the hot seat but Keno Davis is now.

I don't see much difference in their conference records...

Keno Davis won the MAC regular season title 2 years ago, and the West division title last year. He is having a rebuilding year while EMU has the most talent it has in years, yet CMU is 1 game better. If you can sincerely compare the 2, I would be sincerely consider your arguments.

RE: How to Save EMU Basketball This Season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keno_Davis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Murphy_(basketball)

Their MAC records are almost identical over the years.

Murphy is more .500 coach and Keno, feast or famine.

I'm not giving Keno kudos for 10 - 8 conference record. Doubt Murphy would get our kudos for a 10 - 8 record.

(02-08-2017 09:35 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 09:31 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 08:27 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Interesting but fans here seem to feel that Murphy is on the hot seat but Keno Davis is now.

I don't see much difference in their conference records...

Keno Davis won the MAC regular season title 2 years ago, and the West division title last year. He is having a rebuilding year while EMU has the most talent it has in years, yet CMU is 1 game better. If you can sincerely compare the 2, I would be sincerely consider your arguments.

RE: How to Save EMU Basketball This Season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keno_Davis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Murphy_(basketball)

Their MAC records are almost identical over the years.

Murphy is more .500 coach and Keno, feast or famine.

I'm not giving Keno kudos for 10 - 8 conference record. Doubt Murphy would get our kudos for a 10 - 8 record.

I would never compare us to CMU basketball and their mediocrity. However, to Ramy's points, Keno started slowly and came on strong the past two seasons. In year 4, Keno won the MAC (2015), and then the west last season. He's rebuilding with pieces coming back next year. To reiterate Ramy's point, EMU has a more talented roster but most likely will finish behind CMU.

Question Steve, I sense that Murphy could finish .500 in the conference for the next several years, and you'd be fine with that, correct?

(02-08-2017 09:35 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 09:31 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 08:27 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Interesting but fans here seem to feel that Murphy is on the hot seat but Keno Davis is now.

I don't see much difference in their conference records...

Keno Davis won the MAC regular season title 2 years ago, and the West division title last year. He is having a rebuilding year while EMU has the most talent it has in years, yet CMU is 1 game better. If you can sincerely compare the 2, I would be sincerely consider your arguments.

RE: How to Save EMU Basketball This Season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keno_Davis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Murphy_(basketball)

Their MAC records are almost identical over the years.

Murphy is more .500 coach and Keno, feast or famine.

I'm not giving Keno kudos for 10 - 8 conference record. Doubt Murphy would get our kudos for a 10 - 8 record.

You conveniently dodged the main point, Keno Davis won a regular season conference title.

Anyway, I don't know much about Keno Davis nor do I advocate for him. I was just calling out for what seemed to be to be an irrational and needless comparison.

(02-08-2017 10:44 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 09:35 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 09:31 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 08:27 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Interesting but fans here seem to feel that Murphy is on the hot seat but Keno Davis is now.

I don't see much difference in their conference records...

Keno Davis won the MAC regular season title 2 years ago, and the West division title last year. He is having a rebuilding year while EMU has the most talent it has in years, yet CMU is 1 game better. If you can sincerely compare the 2, I would be sincerely consider your arguments.

RE: How to Save EMU Basketball This Season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keno_Davis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Murphy_(basketball)

Their MAC records are almost identical over the years.

Murphy is more .500 coach and Keno, feast or famine.

I'm not giving Keno kudos for 10 - 8 conference record. Doubt Murphy would get our kudos for a 10 - 8 record.

You conveniently dodged the main point, Keno Davis won a regular season conference title.

Anyway, I don't know much about Keno Davis nor do I advocate for him. I was just calling out for what seemed to be to be an irrational and needless comparison.

Keno is feast or famine.

Murphy has been a consistent .500 coach.

Murphy took a bad team and won the MAC West his first year with a gimmicky zone defense which opponents had a lot of trouble adapting.

Keno suffered through some bad seasons early on but won with a 12 - 6 record.

(02-08-2017 10:44 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 09:35 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 09:31 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 08:27 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Interesting but fans here seem to feel that Murphy is on the hot seat but Keno Davis is now.

I don't see much difference in their conference records...

Keno Davis won the MAC regular season title 2 years ago, and the West division title last year. He is having a rebuilding year while EMU has the most talent it has in years, yet CMU is 1 game better. If you can sincerely compare the 2, I would be sincerely consider your arguments.

RE: How to Save EMU Basketball This Season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keno_Davis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Murphy_(basketball)

Their MAC records are almost identical over the years.

Murphy is more .500 coach and Keno, feast or famine.

I'm not giving Keno kudos for 10 - 8 conference record. Doubt Murphy would get our kudos for a 10 - 8 record.

You conveniently dodged the main point, Keno Davis won a regular season conference title.

Anyway, I don't know much about Keno Davis nor do I advocate for him. I was just calling out for what seemed to be to be an irrational and needless comparison.

Ramy, very well said!! I am not a Keeno fan either but Steve made the wrong comparison as CMU goes for 3rd straight MAC west title (how sad is our division?)

http://www.cm-life.com/article/2017/02/m...ll-second-

(02-08-2017 10:44 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 09:35 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 09:31 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 08:27 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Interesting but fans here seem to feel that Murphy is on the hot seat but Keno Davis is now.

I don't see much difference in their conference records...

Keno Davis won the MAC regular season title 2 years ago, and the West division title last year. He is having a rebuilding year while EMU has the most talent it has in years, yet CMU is 1 game better. If you can sincerely compare the 2, I would be sincerely consider your arguments.

RE: How to Save EMU Basketball This Season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keno_Davis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Murphy_(basketball)

Their MAC records are almost identical over the years.

Murphy is more .500 coach and Keno, feast or famine.

I'm not giving Keno kudos for 10 - 8 conference record. Doubt Murphy would get our kudos for a 10 - 8 record.

You conveniently dodged the main point, Keno Davis won a regular season conference title.

Anyway, I don't know much about Keno Davis nor do I advocate for him. I was just calling out for what seemed to be to be an irrational and needless comparison.

Ramy, very well said!! I am not a Keeno fan either but Steve made the wrong comparison as CMU goes for 3rd straight MAC west title (how sad is our division?)

http://www.cm-life.com/article/2017/02/m...ll-second-

(02-08-2017 11:30 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 10:44 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 09:35 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 09:31 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 08:27 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Interesting but fans here seem to feel that Murphy is on the hot seat but Keno Davis is now.

I don't see much difference in their conference records...

Keno Davis won the MAC regular season title 2 years ago, and the West division title last year. He is having a rebuilding year while EMU has the most talent it has in years, yet CMU is 1 game better. If you can sincerely compare the 2, I would be sincerely consider your arguments.

RE: How to Save EMU Basketball This Season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keno_Davis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Murphy_(basketball)

Their MAC records are almost identical over the years.

Murphy is more .500 coach and Keno, feast or famine.

I'm not giving Keno kudos for 10 - 8 conference record. Doubt Murphy would get our kudos for a 10 - 8 record.

You conveniently dodged the main point, Keno Davis won a regular season conference title.

Anyway, I don't know much about Keno Davis nor do I advocate for him. I was just calling out for what seemed to be to be an irrational and needless comparison.

Ramy, very well said!! I am not a Keeno fan either but Steve made the wrong comparison as CMU goes for 3rd straight MAC west title (how sad is our division?)

http://www.cm-life.com/article/2017/02/m...ll-second-

Wow, the last two seasons Keno is 16 - 13 in conference and folks here want to throw a parade...

I don't consider 10 - 8 and 6 - 5 as a joyous event (unless it is the 'grass is greener' theory of human behavior and THEY are 10 - 8).

(02-08-2017 11:30 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 10:44 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 09:35 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 09:31 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 08:27 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Interesting but fans here seem to feel that Murphy is on the hot seat but Keno Davis is now.

I don't see much difference in their conference records...

Keno Davis won the MAC regular season title 2 years ago, and the West division title last year. He is having a rebuilding year while EMU has the most talent it has in years, yet CMU is 1 game better. If you can sincerely compare the 2, I would be sincerely consider your arguments.

RE: How to Save EMU Basketball This Season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keno_Davis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Murphy_(basketball)

Their MAC records are almost identical over the years.

Murphy is more .500 coach and Keno, feast or famine.

I'm not giving Keno kudos for 10 - 8 conference record. Doubt Murphy would get our kudos for a 10 - 8 record.

You conveniently dodged the main point, Keno Davis won a regular season conference title.

Anyway, I don't know much about Keno Davis nor do I advocate for him. I was just calling out for what seemed to be to be an irrational and needless comparison.

Ramy, very well said!! I am not a Keeno fan either but Steve made the wrong comparison as CMU goes for 3rd straight MAC west title (how sad is our division?)

http://www.cm-life.com/article/2017/02/m...ll-second-

Wow, the last two seasons Keno is 16 - 13 in conference and folks here want to throw a parade...

I don't consider 10 - 8 and 6 - 5 as a joyous event (unless it is the 'grass is greener' theory of human behavior and THEY are 10 - 8).

Last year, EMU lost a heart breaker to Akron in the quarter finals. CMU lost to BG that same day, March 10.

We shellacked CMU by over 20 points last month.

Quite frankly other than that one season (12 - 6) not much to talk about in Mt. P.

Again, Keno is about 10 games under water in MAC play during his career.

(02-08-2017 11:04 AM)Block_E Wrote:  What in the hell is with Ray Lee?

CMU 1-10
Buff 1-6
WMU 1-1
AKR 2-5
Ball State 6-17
Miami 1-5
Kent 1-7
NIU 1-5
Toledo 1-8

He was a 20-point scorer until conference play started.

Rob Murphy is what is wrong with Ray... Rob has showed him zero confidence in the MAC season. Drops 24 on BSU and then plays next to none against Miami

(02-09-2017 11:00 AM)HailEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 11:04 AM)Block_E Wrote:  What in the hell is with Ray Lee?

CMU 1-10
Buff 1-6
WMU 1-1
AKR 2-5
Ball State 6-17
Miami 1-5
Kent 1-7
NIU 1-5
Toledo 1-8

He was a 20-point scorer until conference play started.

Rob Murphy is what is wrong with Ray... Rob has showed him zero confidence in the MAC season. Drops 24 on BSU and then plays next to none against Miami

Agree times 1000 !! Murphy has mismanaged his talent. He allows both Mangum and Lee to take I'll advised shots that is part of Murphy's system. I have seen countless times Mangum (and Lee) take 25 foot contested jump shots with 20+ seconds on shot clock. Even when Ray Lee has a nice game the very next game he sits on the bench because Murphy didn't like something that appears to have no rhyme or reason. Reminds me of the time watching Derek Thompson a very talented shooting guard we had that would put up big numbers and then sit on the bench for long period of time. I was told by a couple players that Thompson was one of the hardest working players in practice.... Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to his strategy. Of course Murphy wants to win but he has been unable to figure it out.

Enough this week - let's beat Akron!!!

(02-09-2017 11:46 AM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(02-09-2017 11:00 AM)HailEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 11:04 AM)Block_E Wrote:  What in the hell is with Ray Lee?

CMU 1-10
Buff 1-6
WMU 1-1
AKR 2-5
Ball State 6-17
Miami 1-5
Kent 1-7
NIU 1-5
Toledo 1-8

He was a 20-point scorer until conference play started.

Rob Murphy is what is wrong with Ray... Rob has showed him zero confidence in the MAC season. Drops 24 on BSU and then plays next to none against Miami

Agree times 1000 !! Murphy has mismanaged his talent. He allows both Mangum and Lee to take I'll advised shots that is part of Murphy's system. I have seen countless times Mangum (and Lee) take 25 foot contested jump shots with 20+ seconds on shot clock. Even when Ray Lee has a nice game the very next game he sits on the bench because Murphy didn't like something that appears to have no rhyme or reason. Reminds me of the time watching Derek Thompson a very talented shooting guard we had that would put up big numbers and then sit on the bench for long period of time. I was told by a couple players that Thompson was one of the hardest working players in practice.... Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to his strategy. Of course Murphy wants to win but he has been unable to figure it out.

Enough this week - let's beat Akron!!!

I said this about the team as a whole but I especially see it in Lee and Thompson. Their fire seems to be gone. Thompson isn't playing with the passion that we all love. Lee has lost his confidence. That Ray Lee, "I'm better than all of you and will beat anyone on the court 1-on-1" presence is just gone. And it's Murphy. Ray makes one mistake and he finds himself on the bench. He's playing scared. He hesitates. He can't get into a groove. I think the lack of consistent line up and the constant benching of premier players is killing this team. We've had 9 different starting line ups thus far. How can your team gel and play like a team if there's no consistency. For Thompson, you can just see the frustration wearing on his spirit. I like that he controls his emotion but he's to the point where he is playing without it. His fire is what makes him dominant.

Bottom line: Murphy has to establish a consistent starting five and rotation. He needs to stop pulling players for one mistake. He has to stop trying to scare and punish his players into playing well.

Yep. Beat the Zips on national television tomorrow and all the MAC fans will be envious of us.

Just the way the winter winds blow in the Midwest. Lol.

(02-09-2017 12:03 PM)Time2Fly Wrote:  

(02-09-2017 11:46 AM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(02-09-2017 11:00 AM)HailEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 11:04 AM)Block_E Wrote:  What in the hell is with Ray Lee?

CMU 1-10
Buff 1-6
WMU 1-1
AKR 2-5
Ball State 6-17
Miami 1-5
Kent 1-7
NIU 1-5
Toledo 1-8

He was a 20-point scorer until conference play started.

Rob Murphy is what is wrong with Ray... Rob has showed him zero confidence in the MAC season. Drops 24 on BSU and then plays next to none against Miami

Agree times 1000 !! Murphy has mismanaged his talent. He allows both Mangum and Lee to take I'll advised shots that is part of Murphy's system. I have seen countless times Mangum (and Lee) take 25 foot contested jump shots with 20+ seconds on shot clock. Even when Ray Lee has a nice game the very next game he sits on the bench because Murphy didn't like something that appears to have no rhyme or reason. Reminds me of the time watching Derek Thompson a very talented shooting guard we had that would put up big numbers and then sit on the bench for long period of time. I was told by a couple players that Thompson was one of the hardest working players in practice.... Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to his strategy. Of course Murphy wants to win but he has been unable to figure it out.

Enough this week - let's beat Akron!!!

I said this about the team as a whole but I especially see it in Lee and Thompson. Their fire seems to be gone. Thompson isn't playing with the passion that we all love. Lee has lost his confidence. That Ray Lee, "I'm better than all of you and will beat anyone on the court 1-on-1" presence is just gone. And it's Murphy. Ray makes one mistake and he finds himself on the bench. He's playing scared. He hesitates. He can't get into a groove. I think the lack of consistent line up and the constant benching of premier players is killing this team. We've had 9 different starting line ups thus far. How can your team gel and play like a team if there's no consistency. For Thompson, you can just see the frustration wearing on his spirit. I like that he controls his emotion but he's to the point where he is playing without it. His fire is what makes him dominant.

Bottom line: Murphy has to establish a consistent starting five and rotation. He needs to stop pulling players for one mistake. He has to stop trying to scare and punish his players into playing well.

What's with this love affair for RLee?? -- The guy has been a tease his entire career. Waiting for him to go one-on-one is exactly the problem. I remember the opener at Pitt when he launched that ill-advised step-back 3-pointer coming out of a timeout.

No way that was the play called with, I think, about 10 seconds left on the shotclock. I said right then the season was doomed. He and the team would be better off if he did not play at all.

(02-09-2017 01:49 PM)cleveland Wrote:  What's with this love affair for RLee?? -- The guy has been a tease his entire career. Waiting for him to go one-on-one is exactly the problem. I remember the opener at Pitt when he launched that ill-advised step-back 3-pointer coming out of a timeout.

No way that was the play called with, I think, about 10 seconds left on the shotclock. I said right then the season was doomed. He and the team would be better off if he did not play at all.

look at his stats - http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/play...ee-1.html. he was one of the top offensive players in the MAC the last two years in terms of counting numbers and efficiency. look at his PER & TS%. look at his win shares. look at his offensive box plus minus. look at raw points scored. he has the ability to be an excellent offensive player in the mac. it's great that you remember one play, but he's shown that he can be an excellent player. it seems like a good idea to try to get that production out of him this year. that being said, none of us know if what's going on with him is his fault, murphy's fault, or something else. we're not there. but don't act like he's not capable of being good because that's factually incorrect.

(02-09-2017 11:00 AM)HailEMU Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 11:04 AM)Block_E Wrote:  What in the hell is with Ray Lee?

CMU 1-10
Buff 1-6
WMU 1-1
AKR 2-5
Ball State 6-17
Miami 1-5
Kent 1-7
NIU 1-5
Toledo 1-8

He was a 20-point scorer until conference play started.

Rob Murphy is what is wrong with Ray... Rob has showed him zero confidence in the MAC season. Drops 24 on BSU and then plays next to none against Miami

I disagree. Everyone in Detroit had a terrible opinion of Lee, he is a headcase on and off the court. Explains why such a talent ended up at EMU of all places. And he did not prove anyone wrong in his last 4 years. His tenure can be described by on and off of the court incidents and some great games sprinkled in there. I would not blame it on Murphy at all.