Given its location, I believe Rice has the potential to pull it off. But I don't expect to happen any time soon.

(02-07-2017 04:27 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Given its location, I believe Rice has the potential to pull it off. But I don't expect to happen any time soon.

They aren't in a Power 5. Can't be a consistent football top 25 team outside the P5.

(02-07-2017 02:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Miami has no doubt improved by leaps and bounds, but so has Stanford... and it was pretty good to start with!

ibm similarly believed until microsoft passed 'em ....
to quote satchel paige: don't look back; something might be gaining on you ...

NOUVEAU RICHE (NEW RICH)

(02-07-2017 05:22 PM)green Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 02:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Miami has no doubt improved by leaps and bounds, but so has Stanford... and it was pretty good to start with!

ibm similarly believed until microsoft passed 'em ....
to quote satchel paige: don't look back; something might be gaining on you ...

NOUVEAU RICHE (NEW RICH)

OK, maybe Miami hasn't made as much academic progress as I thought if you think that the stars are anything like as close as the moon...

ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE (THAT MEANS POWERS OF TEN).

(02-07-2017 01:10 PM)green Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 12:46 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  nothing really competes with that location/weather.

http://www.youvisit.com/tour/miami?pl=v

University of Miami's ranking in the 2017 edition of Best Colleges is National Universities, 44. Its tuition and fees are $47,004 (2016-17).

Located in Southern Florida, the University of Miami has an ideal location for students who love the outdoors. With popular spots like South Beach, the Florida Keys and Everglades National Park nearby, students have plenty of opportunities for water sports, hiking and sunbathing. Downtown Miami, also near to the school, is a thriving sports and cultural center.
-- colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com

I told y'all ...
using your criterion ...
Miami possesses the most potential to be the stanford of the east ...
embodying enviable academic & athletic excellence set in surrealism ...
we live ...

WHERE YOU VACATION

Dayum ... I dunno about all that academic stuff ... but this definitely makes me want to be a Delta Gamma.

(02-07-2017 01:21 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  An acceptance to Stanford is a BIG FREAKING DEAL. Harvard...Stanford...MIT.

To Hell with Georgia
(to the tune of Glory, Glory Hallelujah)

Don't send my boy to MIT
The dying mother said,
Don't send my boy to Emory
I'd rather see him dead,
But send my boy to Georgia Tech
'Tis better than Cornell.
And as for the University of Georgia
I'd rather see him in hell!

To Hell, to Hell, to Hell with Georgia,
To Hell, to Hell, to Hell with Georgia,
To Hell, to Hell, to Hell with Georgia,
The cesspool of the South!

Mine eyes have seen the glory
Of the stomping of the Dogs
We will teach the poor dumb farmboys
They should stick to sloppin' hogs
When the Jackets are triumphant
There will be a mighty cheer
We'll do the same next year!

To Hell, to Hell, to Hell with Georgia,
To Hell, to Hell, to Hell with Georgia,
To Hell, to Hell, to Hell with Georgia,
The cesspool of the South!

On the Field between the hedges
There arose a mighty stench,
In the Dogs' machine the engineers
Had thrown a monkey wrench.
When the Jackets are triumphant
We will raise a mighty yell,
Them Dogs can GO TO HELL!!

To Hell, to Hell, to Hell with Georgia,
To Hell, to Hell, to Hell with Georgia,
To Hell, to Hell, to Hell with Georgia,
The cesspool of the South!

Mine eyes have seen the glory
Of the N.C. Double-A
They're investigating GA players
To see how much they're paid
After counting all the cars
And the loans Alumni made,
They out pay the NBA.

To Hell, to Hell, to Hell with Georgia,
To Hell, to Hell, to Hell with Georgia,
To Hell, to Hell, to Hell with Georgia,
The cesspool of the South!

(02-07-2017 05:02 PM)nole Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 04:27 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Given its location, I believe Rice has the potential to pull it off. But I don't expect to happen any time soon.

They aren't in a Power 5. Can't be a consistent football top 25 team outside the P5.

True, but based on academic status, access to recruits in both Texas/Louisiana and the Austin (the Silicon Valley of Texas), Rice has the potential to be another Stanford. But it'll never happen. The school doesn't want it.

No one in the ACC has the ability to become Stanford. As mentioned elsewhere, there are too many elite academic institutions in the East.

Stanford is the Harvard of the West, and there is not a Princeton or Yale. It stands alone. Stanford's athletic endowment (2X that of Notre Dame) and facilities are unparalleled. They essentially have unlimited money to throw at every sport and a tradition of churning out Olympians in everything they sponsor. There is actually no comparable athletic department anywhere east of the Mississippi. Perhaps only Michigan or Texas comes close, but I'd say those two combined still can't match Stanford in its production of Olympians and NCAA champions.

As an aside, I have to say as an alumnus, that Miami claiming that it is a good school for the outdoors lovers is hilarious. Colorado; now there is a great school for the outdoors. Many of the UCs are great. Absolutely not Miami. Water sports? Yes, Miami is great for that, but the "Outdoors"? Hiking? I can't imagine anyone actually into the outdoors ever thinking that. Heck, Pitt is better off for "hiking" and jogging trails with Schenley Park adjacent to campus.

(02-07-2017 12:55 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 12:10 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:47 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:46 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:41 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I, too, meant football. Stanford is the far better program right now.

Notre Dame football couldn't be the "Stanford of the ACC" because they're not in the ACC. We're not talking about out of conference opponents that could be Stanford. I suppose Vanderbilt, Northwestern, etc could also emulate Stanford in some way.

Sorry, my bad. Better reading comprehension would help me some.......

No problem, I'm partially just tweaking you because I know how much you don't want Notre Dame football in the ACC so it's funny that you volunteered ND...

I am so "not conference oriented" that I did not even see the "of the ACC" portion of your post.

My mind just apparently canceled out those words.

Freudian slip

Lots of good points in this thread. In all reality, the amount of competition east of the Mississippi makes it extremely difficult for any university to become the Stanford of the east.

As much as it would annoy me (and possibly UNC & GT fans even more), I think the UVA athletic department has an opportunity to market itself as THE premier public university on the east coast. It's consistently ranked in the top 3 public universities in the country, often behind UC-Berkeley in the #2 spot.

I think there's some traction to be found in that marketing ploy, as they could use it as an alternative to the private schools like Duke, Northwestern Vanderbilt and the Ivy League. Hell, UVA alumni love to promote the "Public Ivy" trope, so maybe that would work at the athletic level.

I think the right person in charge of UVA's athletic department could turn their football program into a perennial ACC contender. It just takes the right head coaching hire to make it work. I'm just not sure who that would be.

(02-08-2017 08:57 AM)H.U.S.T.L.E. Wrote:  Lots of good points in this thread. In all reality, the amount of competition east of the Mississippi makes it extremely difficult for any university to become the Stanford of the east.

As much as it would annoy me (and possibly UNC & GT fans even more), I think the UVA athletic department has an opportunity to market itself as THE premier public university on the east coast. It's consistently ranked in the top 3 public universities in the country, often behind UC-Berkeley in the #2 spot.

I think there's some traction to be found in that marketing ploy, as they could use it as an alternative to the private schools like Duke, Northwestern Vanderbilt and the Ivy League. Hell, UVA alumni love to promote the "Public Ivy" trope, so maybe that would work at the athletic level.

I think the right person in charge of UVA's athletic department could turn their football program into a perennial ACC contender. It just takes the right head coaching hire to make it work. I'm just not sure who that would be.

It might help the ACC as a conference, but I still can't root for such an outcome. Sorry guys, my ideal scenario is VT for football, both VT and UVA for basketball, and UVA for Olympic sports.


I have no problem with Duke, Wake, BC, Syracuse or Pitt taking off in football...

(02-08-2017 08:57 AM)H.U.S.T.L.E. Wrote:  As much as it would annoy me (and possibly UNC & GT fans even more),

The only thing annoying to GT fans are two large flaws in the ranking criteria:

1) Often things are not normalized per capita ... so you get a bonus just for being a 50,000 enrollment behemoth
2) Having the #1 Women's Studies program often carries the same weight as having the #1 Nuclear Engineering program. Which hurts to even type out.

If you were to take care of adjustments like this, you'd see some of the mega far lefty Ivory Tower types (UC Berkeley, Stanford, UNC-CH, etc) take a tumble. And you'd see STEM heavy schools and niche schools (Carnegie Mellon, Cal Tech, Georgia Tech, Colorado School of Mines) soar up the rankings.

(02-08-2017 12:40 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 08:57 AM)H.U.S.T.L.E. Wrote:  As much as it would annoy me (and possibly UNC & GT fans even more),

The only thing annoying to GT fans are two large flaws in the ranking criteria:

1) Often things are not normalized per capita ... so you get a bonus just for being a 50,000 enrollment behemoth
2) Having the #1 Women's Studies program often carries the same weight as having the #1 Nuclear Engineering program. Which hurts to even type out.

If you were to take care of adjustments like this, you'd see some of the mega far lefty Ivory Tower types (UC Berkeley, Stanford, UNC-CH, etc) take a tumble. And you'd see STEM heavy schools and niche schools (Carnegie Mellon, Cal Tech, Georgia Tech, Colorado School of Mines) soar up the rankings.

I think Georgia Tech actually has the best chance of duplicating the Stanford thing by being distinguished as something "special". Look at that list you just named...only one of those plays football.

It won't appeal to as broad a group as Stanford, because of the STEM focus, but it's at least conceivable for a STEM kid, that a GT offer could immediately trump anything else.

I just don't think at the end of the day Duke or UVA are going to be able to drop an offer on the table that makes a kid's head spin compared to the likes of other academic schools like Vandy, Northwestern, Chapel Hill, and more importantly, a few football powers like Notre Dame, Michigan or Texas.

Can you make a case that UVA or Duke is better than those schools...probably. Can you convince them it's so "next level" better that it more than offsets going to a football power? I just don't think so.

I think that it's possible that GT could establish itself as a different class than other, even very very good, engineering programs and have that kind of cache.

But they have to do a better job selling that than they do now, and even above and beyond just football. They have to become THE football engineering school.

And then, like Stanford, they have to have a way to accommodate and protect those students once they're actually IN school, with some more doable majors, which from my understanding GT has never been really all that willing to do.

Stanford could...invite Stanford for #15

(02-08-2017 02:37 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Stanford could...invite Stanford for #15

Stanford, USC and Notre Dame for football. Who cares about the time zone thing.

Sent from my HTC Desire 626 using CSNbbs mobile app

(02-08-2017 03:10 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 02:37 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Stanford could...invite Stanford for #15

Stanford, USC and Notre Dame for football. Who cares about the time zone thing.

Sent from my HTC Desire 626 using CSNbbs mobile app

LOL! Reminds me of a few years ago when so many posters on the Realignment Board had the ACC losing teams to both the SEC (VT and NCST) and B1G (UVA and UNC) and then there being a merger of the better football programs in the remaining ACC - (FSU,Clemson,Miami,GT,Louisville) with the B12 ten programs and BYU to compete with the new SEC and new B1G.

A poster asked, what happens with the PAC and the northeastern teams if that comes about? I jokingly wrote, well they are looking for eastern time zone exposure, so ND, Pitt, BC, and SU are invited to the PAC.

And some posters ran with that as a realistic scenario.

Cheers,
Neil

The timezone thing only works if ESPN is willing to make it work in order to get a second "college football final" game on the west coast at late east coast hours. (Which means the far west team would have to be OK with having every single home game kickoff at around 10:30-11:00 PM ET.

(02-07-2017 11:08 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  No one in the ACC has the ability to become Stanford. As mentioned elsewhere, there are too many elite academic institutions in the East.

Stanford is the Harvard of the West, and there is not a Princeton or Yale. It stands alone. Stanford's athletic endowment (2X that of Notre Dame) and facilities are unparalleled. They essentially have unlimited money to throw at every sport and a tradition of churning out Olympians in everything they sponsor. There is actually no comparable athletic department anywhere east of the Mississippi. Perhaps only Michigan or Texas comes close, but I'd say those two combined still can't match Stanford in its production of Olympians and NCAA champions.

As an aside, I have to say as an alumnus, that Miami claiming that it is a good school for the outdoors lovers is hilarious. Colorado; now there is a great school for the outdoors. Many of the UCs are great. Absolutely not Miami. Water sports? Yes, Miami is great for that, but the "Outdoors"? Hiking? I can't imagine anyone actually into the outdoors ever thinking that. Heck, Pitt is better off for "hiking" and jogging trails with Schenley Park adjacent to campus.

For every "A", there is a "B". For every "1", there is a "2". Stanford may very well be the "Harvard" of the West, but to say that there isn't a "Yale" or a "Princeton" of the West is laughable. Although it is a public instution, Cal-Berkeley has to qualify as the "Yale" of the West in my opinion. Research=check. Admissions standards=check. National notoriety=check.
If you slap a Cal-Berkeley scholarship in front a kid trying to decide between UC-Berkeley and Florida State, or 'Bama, or just about anybody else except Stanford or the old Ancient 8 (aka the Ivy League), that kid is going to take to the Cal-Berkeley scholarship regardless if they live in the state of California or not.

Now, another thing: If you tell somebody that they'll never do something (not something bad, but what we might consider improbable or even perhaps impossible for that person), they will do it anyway just to prove to you that they can. If someone told the president of the University of Miami that they'll never be a "Stanford" of the East, I would expect to see Miami surging very quickly to enter Stanford's ranks. So Green, take those message board comments, and show them to the president and the athletic director. I'm curious to see as to how they will react. Miami has a lot to be proud of, and has come a very long way from its gangsta-like past (I wish the Raiders could do that too!!!). I can see Duke and UVa vying for Stanford-like status as well.

(02-12-2017 02:25 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:08 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  No one in the ACC has the ability to become Stanford. As mentioned elsewhere, there are too many elite academic institutions in the East.

Stanford is the Harvard of the West, and there is not a Princeton or Yale. It stands alone. Stanford's athletic endowment (2X that of Notre Dame) and facilities are unparalleled. They essentially have unlimited money to throw at every sport and a tradition of churning out Olympians in everything they sponsor. There is actually no comparable athletic department anywhere east of the Mississippi. Perhaps only Michigan or Texas comes close, but I'd say those two combined still can't match Stanford in its production of Olympians and NCAA champions.

As an aside, I have to say as an alumnus, that Miami claiming that it is a good school for the outdoors lovers is hilarious. Colorado; now there is a great school for the outdoors. Many of the UCs are great. Absolutely not Miami. Water sports? Yes, Miami is great for that, but the "Outdoors"? Hiking? I can't imagine anyone actually into the outdoors ever thinking that. Heck, Pitt is better off for "hiking" and jogging trails with Schenley Park adjacent to campus.

For every "A", there is a "B". For every "1", there is a "2". Stanford may very well be the "Harvard" of the West, but to say that there isn't a "Yale" or a "Princeton" of the West is laughable. Although it is a public instution, Cal-Berkeley has to qualify as the "Yale" of the West in my opinion. Research=check. Admissions standards=check. National notoriety=check.
If you slap a Cal-Berkeley scholarship in front a kid trying to decide between UC-Berkeley and Florida State, or 'Bama, or just about anybody else except Stanford or the old Ancient 8 (aka the Ivy League), that kid is going to take to the Cal-Berkeley scholarship regardless if they live in the state of California or not.

Now, another thing: If you tell somebody that they'll never do something (not something bad, but what we might consider improbable or even perhaps impossible for that person), they will do it anyway just to prove to you that they can. If someone told the president of the University of Miami that they'll never be a "Stanford" of the East, I would expect to see Miami surging very quickly to enter Stanford's ranks. So Green, take those message board comments, and show them to the president and the athletic director. I'm curious to see as to how they will react. Miami has a lot to be proud of, and has come a very long way from its gangsta-like past (I wish the Raiders could do that too!!!). I can see Duke and UVa vying for Stanford-like status as well.

You should try living in the Bay area and see if any chooses Cal over Stanford given equivalent costs and acceptance. Cal is the best public in the nation, but people don't generally pick UVA or Michigan over Harvard, Princeton, or Yale either given equivalent acceptance and costs. There is an MIT of the West, but there is no Princeton, Yale, Columbia, Penn, Brown, or Dartmouth.

(02-12-2017 02:25 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:08 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  No one in the ACC has the ability to become Stanford. As mentioned elsewhere, there are too many elite academic institutions in the East.

Stanford is the Harvard of the West, and there is not a Princeton or Yale. It stands alone. Stanford's athletic endowment (2X that of Notre Dame) and facilities are unparalleled. They essentially have unlimited money to throw at every sport and a tradition of churning out Olympians in everything they sponsor. There is actually no comparable athletic department anywhere east of the Mississippi. Perhaps only Michigan or Texas comes close, but I'd say those two combined still can't match Stanford in its production of Olympians and NCAA champions.

As an aside, I have to say as an alumnus, that Miami claiming that it is a good school for the outdoors lovers is hilarious. Colorado; now there is a great school for the outdoors. Many of the UCs are great. Absolutely not Miami. Water sports? Yes, Miami is great for that, but the "Outdoors"? Hiking? I can't imagine anyone actually into the outdoors ever thinking that. Heck, Pitt is better off for "hiking" and jogging trails with Schenley Park adjacent to campus.

For every "A", there is a "B". For every "1", there is a "2". Stanford may very well be the "Harvard" of the West, but to say that there isn't a "Yale" or a "Princeton" of the West is laughable. Although it is a public instution, Cal-Berkeley has to qualify as the "Yale" of the West in my opinion. Research=check. Admissions standards=check. National notoriety=check.
If you slap a Cal-Berkeley scholarship in front a kid trying to decide between UC-Berkeley and Florida State, or 'Bama, or just about anybody else except Stanford or the old Ancient 8 (aka the Ivy League), that kid is going to take to the Cal-Berkeley scholarship regardless if they live in the state of California or not.

Now, another thing: If you tell somebody that they'll never do something (not something bad, but what we might consider improbable or even perhaps impossible for that person), they will do it anyway just to prove to you that they can. If someone told the president of the University of Miami that they'll never be a "Stanford" of the East, I would expect to see Miami surging very quickly to enter Stanford's ranks. So Green, take those message board comments, and show them to the president and the athletic director. I'm curious to see as to how they will react. Miami has a lot to be proud of, and has come a very long way from its gangsta-like past (I wish the Raiders could do that too!!!). I can see Duke and UVa vying for Stanford-like status as well.

You should try living in the Bay area and see if any chooses Cal over Stanford given equivalent costs and acceptance. Cal is the best public in the nation, but people don't generally pick UVA or Michigan over Harvard, Princeton, or Yale either given equivalent acceptance and costs. There is a difference in degree cache,and my Cal friends would hate me for saying that, but there is a difference between the Ivy's and Dukes and JHUs as well. There is an MIT of the West, but there is no Princeton, Yale, Columbia, Penn, Brown, or Dartmouth. There is no equivalent to the major eastern elite privates out west. There is also a reason the acronym HPYSM exits. And when you talk about the next chunk of schools they are also mostly east of the Mississippi, although I would agree Cal could fit in there.

I'll be happy to email the Frenk to tell him Miami will never be the "Stanford of the East." It's just a matter of people lacking the proper motivation, right? It would certainly make my degree from there look better.