Many government officials are saying that this is likely the most unamerican thing a president has ever said.

(02-07-2017 11:22 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Many government officials are saying that this is likely the most unamerican thing a president has ever said.

And every one worked in the Obama administration and applauded all his negative comments about America.

(02-07-2017 09:23 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  OMG....

What's changed?????? Are you guys that obtuse? How about interfering with our electoral process for starters. Kick that one around Rhode scholars. +3 that one..................

Oh you have hard proof?

Please post.

(02-07-2017 10:31 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 06:48 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I'm reminded of 4 years ago when a gentleman named Mitt Romney mentioned Russia being an issue and the President at the time made a joke at Romney's expense and all you lefties thought it was the funniest thing you heard. Now four years later we can't go a day without mentioning Russia. What changed? Was it they hacked into machines not hooked up to the internet or was it a DNC employee dished the dirt on your candidate and blamed them?

Russia invaded and annexed part of a sovereign country. shot down a civilian airliner. played a direct role in creating the worst refugee crisis to hit europe since world war II. interfered in our elections. are you really this dense?

when you asked what has changed the answer is simply "everything."

Again ya'll applauded Obama when he took a shot at Romney. So what did Barry do when Russia did above. Surely he did something.... Oh right sanctions.

(02-07-2017 11:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:22 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Many government officials are saying that this is likely the most unamerican thing a president has ever said.

And every one worked in the Obama administration and applauded all his negative comments about America.

I had no idea Mitch McConnell worked for Obama.


Can you give an example that even comes close to what Trump said?

(02-07-2017 11:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:22 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Many government officials are saying that this is likely the most unamerican thing a president has ever said.

And every one worked in the Obama administration and applauded all his negative comments about America.

I had no idea Mitch McConnell worked for Obama.


Can you give an example that even comes close to what Trump said?

You haven't linked anything.

And sometimes it did seem like McConnell and Boehner were working for Obama!

(02-07-2017 11:32 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 10:31 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 06:48 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I'm reminded of 4 years ago when a gentleman named Mitt Romney mentioned Russia being an issue and the President at the time made a joke at Romney's expense and all you lefties thought it was the funniest thing you heard. Now four years later we can't go a day without mentioning Russia. What changed? Was it they hacked into machines not hooked up to the internet or was it a DNC employee dished the dirt on your candidate and blamed them?

Russia invaded and annexed part of a sovereign country. shot down a civilian airliner. played a direct role in creating the worst refugee crisis to hit europe since world war II. interfered in our elections. are you really this dense?

when you asked what has changed the answer is simply "everything."

Again ya'll applauded Obama when he took a shot at Romney. So what did Barry do when Russia did above. Surely he did something.... Oh right sanctions.

all that happened after the Romney comments.

Putin's invasion of Georgia didn't. His proxy war in Moldova didn't.

(02-07-2017 12:09 PM)bullet Wrote:  Putin's invasion of Georgia didn't. His proxy war in Moldova didn't.

see other thread.

(02-07-2017 11:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:22 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Many government officials are saying that this is likely the most unamerican thing a president has ever said.

And every one worked in the Obama administration and applauded all his negative comments about America.

I had no idea Mitch McConnell worked for Obama.


Can you give an example that even comes close to what Trump said?

You haven't linked anything.

I asked you first.

(02-07-2017 12:07 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:32 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 10:31 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 06:48 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I'm reminded of 4 years ago when a gentleman named Mitt Romney mentioned Russia being an issue and the President at the time made a joke at Romney's expense and all you lefties thought it was the funniest thing you heard. Now four years later we can't go a day without mentioning Russia. What changed? Was it they hacked into machines not hooked up to the internet or was it a DNC employee dished the dirt on your candidate and blamed them?

Russia invaded and annexed part of a sovereign country. shot down a civilian airliner. played a direct role in creating the worst refugee crisis to hit europe since world war II. interfered in our elections. are you really this dense?

when you asked what has changed the answer is simply "everything."

Again ya'll applauded Obama when he took a shot at Romney. So what did Barry do when Russia did above. Surely he did something.... Oh right sanctions.

all that happened after the Romney comments.

So a candidate who doesn't have the Intel of a sitting President foresaw an issue?

(02-07-2017 02:32 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 12:07 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:32 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 10:31 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 06:48 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I'm reminded of 4 years ago when a gentleman named Mitt Romney mentioned Russia being an issue and the President at the time made a joke at Romney's expense and all you lefties thought it was the funniest thing you heard. Now four years later we can't go a day without mentioning Russia. What changed? Was it they hacked into machines not hooked up to the internet or was it a DNC employee dished the dirt on your candidate and blamed them?

Russia invaded and annexed part of a sovereign country. shot down a civilian airliner. played a direct role in creating the worst refugee crisis to hit europe since world war II. interfered in our elections. are you really this dense?

when you asked what has changed the answer is simply "everything."

Again ya'll applauded Obama when he took a shot at Romney. So what did Barry do when Russia did above. Surely he did something.... Oh right sanctions.

all that happened after the Romney comments.

So a candidate who doesn't have the Intel of a sitting President foresaw an issue?

whether he was legitimately on point or "eventually a blind squirrel finds its nut" type of event we shall never know. however it certainly went against the mainstream consensus.

Romney got burned because he challenged the mainstream consensus and foresaw an error in our ways. that is something we need politicians to do more of and yet when Romney did exactly that we chastised him. we should have listened.

(02-07-2017 02:50 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 02:32 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 12:07 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:32 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 10:31 AM)john01992 Wrote:  Russia invaded and annexed part of a sovereign country. shot down a civilian airliner. played a direct role in creating the worst refugee crisis to hit europe since world war II. interfered in our elections. are you really this dense?

when you asked what has changed the answer is simply "everything."

Again ya'll applauded Obama when he took a shot at Romney. So what did Barry do when Russia did above. Surely he did something.... Oh right sanctions.

all that happened after the Romney comments.

So a candidate who doesn't have the Intel of a sitting President foresaw an issue?

whether he was legitimately on point or "eventually a blind squirrel finds its nut" type of event we shall never know. however it certainly went against the mainstream consensus.

Romney got burned because he challenged the mainstream consensus and foresaw an error in our ways. that is something we need politicians to do more of and yet when Romney did exactly that we chastised him. we should have listened.

props to you. That is refreshing to read coming from the left.

I agree John made a good point without insulting anyone.

But the point remains. There was an issue pointed out 4 years ago and the last administration laughed it off and didn't try to paint them as a bad guy until this past November. I'm no supporter of Russia, but until someone can present hard evidence not heresay or blaming unseen tax returns as a source of contention as a point of saying a sitting President is compromised.

(02-07-2017 11:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:22 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Many government officials are saying that this is likely the most unamerican thing a president has ever said.

And every one worked in the Obama administration and applauded all his negative comments about America.

I had no idea Mitch McConnell worked for Obama.

He doesn't... but can you show me where he says it 'is likely the most unamerican thing a president has ever said'.

That was, after all, your claim.

Neither did Trump draw an equivalency to Russia vs US or Putin vs 'generic US president'. He was asked about Putin being a 'killer'... and Trump said 'you think we're so innocent'?

The left called Reagan and both Bush's 'killers'. Now all of a sudden they're offended by the comment. I understand that 'the right' wants to claim moral superiority... You'd think the left would embrace his candor.

Oh I forgot... the example he used INCLUDED a Democrat. Had he only said Bush/Iraq, you would have been fine with it

Quote:Can you give an example that even comes close to what Trump said?

'Unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ.'

Obama likened atrocities and beliefs held in the 11th century to actions taking place today. Slavery hasn't been in place since the 1860's and Jim Crow laws ended 50 years ago... yet Obama said we can'c claim to be superior... despite the fact that we've obviously made it illegal to do things that is still not only legal, but STILL approved in other places.

You can disagree but I think most people would call those pretty similar

(02-07-2017 04:19 PM)gdunn Wrote:  I agree John made a good point without insulting anyone.

But the point remains. There was an issue pointed out 4 years ago and the last administration laughed it off and didn't try to paint them as a bad guy until this past November. I'm no supporter of Russia, but until someone can present hard evidence not heresay or blaming unseen tax returns as a source of contention as a point of saying a sitting President is compromised.

Like I said it's one thing to be right, but it's another thing to be right for the right reasons. and while romney was correct I'm not convinced that he truly saw the post crimea problems that would arise.

romney went against the national consensus on this issue. both sides were overlooking what Russia was doing with Georgia/ukraine. we were championing a pivot to asia and our intelligence agencies switching from Russian to arabic as the language to focus on.

romney pointed out the issue in the sense that he made that comment about russia, but it was summed up in one debate with very little comment about what he was basing it on. like I said being right for the right reasons is important. we know he was right but we don't know if it was luck or skill which is why I don't think we could say "it was pointed out." he went against consensus and because he didn't do a whole lot to say why he was making said claim, that contributed to why we missed it.

it sucks about politics that the candidate who was ultimately correct and had the foresight was chided for saying what we needed to hear but not what we wanted to hear.

As probably the senior military officer present here, I'd like to point out some considerations.

One, with respect to Crimea/Ukraine/Georgia and other former Soviet republics around the Black Sea, we would have a difficult time presenting any credible military opposition without air cover, and the normal source of air cover for expeditionary actions--carrier aviation--would not be available. The Montreux Convention prohibits transits by aircraft carriers belonging to non-Black Sea nations through the Bosporus and Dardanelles into the Black Sea. We could in theory use Romanian airfields, but 1) what kind of shape are they in, 2) moving significant Air Force assets to Romania would almost certainly be seen as provocative, and 3) Romanian basing might work for Crimea/Ukraine, but would be too far away to be useful for Georgia and other places further east.

Two, looking at some of the stuff that George Friedman and Peter Zeihan have been putting out, the Great European Plain stretches from the Rhine and Ardennes/Alps/Carpathians to the Urals, with few intervening partial barriers (the Elbe, Oder, Vistula, Dneiper, and Volga/Don being about the extent). That basically means that Germany (to its east), Poland, Ukraine, and Russia (to its west) have no real natural defenses. That makes all of them very leery of each other. We put Air Force planes and personnel in Romania, for example, and that looks like a major threat to Mother Russia. Russia would probably like to push west to get to some defensible boundaries (basically back to where the old USSR was). And as Zeihan and Friedman have both pointed out, demographics are a ticking clock for Russia. They are maybe 5 or 10 years away from not having enough men of soldiering age to be able to maintain their Army. That means that if they are going to take steps to secure those boundaries, the time to do so is now.

(02-07-2017 10:32 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 09:02 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 06:48 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I'm reminded of 4 years ago when a gentleman named Mitt Romney mentioned Russia being an issue and the President at the time made a joke at Romney's expense and all you lefties thought it was the funniest thing you heard. Now four years later we can't go a day without mentioning Russia. What changed? Was it they hacked into machines not hooked up to the internet or was it a DNC employee dished the dirt on your candidate and blamed them?

Damn if this post doesn't hit the nail on the head. +1

the only people who think this post "hit the nail on the head" are complete morons.

Why be a dick?

(02-07-2017 05:19 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 10:32 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 09:02 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 06:48 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I'm reminded of 4 years ago when a gentleman named Mitt Romney mentioned Russia being an issue and the President at the time made a joke at Romney's expense and all you lefties thought it was the funniest thing you heard. Now four years later we can't go a day without mentioning Russia. What changed? Was it they hacked into machines not hooked up to the internet or was it a DNC employee dished the dirt on your candidate and blamed them?

Damn if this post doesn't hit the nail on the head. +1

the only people who think this post "hit the nail on the head" are complete morons.

Why be a dick?

It is all he has to argue with.