(02-06-2017 01:14 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 01:08 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 12:35 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 12:30 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 12:22 PM)john01992 Wrote:  But when did we ever annex Chile or Argentina? When did we ever destabilize countries specifically to prevent them from becoming 1st world countries?

We annexed Texas to California. It used to be part of Mexico. We had a war with them and then we ended it by paying them 20 Million something like that. But the USA has destabilized dozens of other countries for various reasons.

so your example is from 180 years ago?

After WWII the world grew up and decided said actions were no longer tolerable and that thinking has been in place ever since then.

Also the land we took from Mexico was frontier land. there is a massive difference between taking unsettled land verse land settled by a different ethnic group with a different history, religion, language, culture, etc. That's why trying to compare the Mexican-American war to other examples "israel occupation) is stupid.

The US didn't take modern day Mexico and Mexico scoffed at the Zimmerman Telegram for the very same reason. Frontier land vs settled land is fundamentally different.

It is a moot point. Have started wars on foreign lands .....yes. Have we backed anti government rebels, yes, regime change yes, backed assassinations, yes.

The thread is not about manifest destiny, taking land, and trying to spin it in in that direction is STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how is it a moot point? if you are going to compare the Mexican-American war to any other conflict then you also have to mention how it is so fundamentally different from most conflicts. I didn't bring up the mexican american war. I didn't bring up manifest destiny.

If you want to bring up our shady banana republic/cold war shenanigans fine. However they pale in comparison to Russia spending two centuries trying to conquer, dominate, and destabilize Europe and Eurasia.

You asked the question about taking land by force, I answered it. Stay on topic,

However, O’Reilly followed up with an obvious objection: “But he’s a killer, though; Putin’s a killer.”

Trump answered this charge basically the same way he did as a presidential candidate:

There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot killers. What do you think? Our country is so innocent.

Quote:You asked the question about taking land by force, I answered it.

and you responded with a terrible answer from 180 years ago and an incomparable example.

Quote:Stay on topic,

tough talk from the guy who brought up mexico then complained when I told him why it was dumb to bring up mexico.

Quote:However, O’Reilly followed up with an obvious objection: “But he’s a killer, though; Putin’s a killer.”

He is a killer.

Quote:Trump answered this charge basically the same way he did as a presidential candidate:

There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot killers. What do you think? Our country is so innocent.

since you love to omit what the other side is saying let me lay it out for you.

We have our own faults, but our transgressions pale in comparison to what Russia does. The single biggest issue with this trump quote is that he is defending Putin. That's the problem. we have a POTUS that clearly has a viewpoint regarding Putin that is significantly flawed and possibly the result of his being compromised.

(02-06-2017 01:27 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

Quote:You asked the question about taking land by force, I answered it.

and you responded with a terrible answer from 180 years ago and an incomparable example.

Quote:Stay on topic,

tough talk from the guy who brought up mexico then complained when I told him why it was dumb to bring up mexico.

Quote:However, O’Reilly followed up with an obvious objection: “But he’s a killer, though; Putin’s a killer.”

He is a killer.

Quote:Trump answered this charge basically the same way he did as a presidential candidate:

There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot killers. What do you think? Our country is so innocent.

since you love to omit what the other side is saying let me lay it out for you.

We have our own faults, but our transgressions pale in comparison to what Russia does. The single biggest issue with this trump quote is that he is defending Putin. That's the problem. we have a POTUS that clearly has a viewpoint regarding Putin that is significantly flawed and possibly the result of his being compromised.

If Trump called Russia and Putin the Evil Satanic Empire, you would say well the USA has certainly done a lot bad things similar to Russia. You are a one trick anti Trump pony.

(02-06-2017 12:59 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 12:35 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 12:30 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 12:22 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 12:20 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  War is different than regime change and assassinations and or attempts. CIA has certainly been in this game. Argentina comes to mind. We have been aggressive in combating Communist Socialist countries regimes, both in fighting wars, Korea, Vietnam, and covert stuff. Although I don't want see people die it has probably been a positive.
We got dragged into 2 World Wars so it makes sense to whatever we need to nip it the bud globally. Fighting communist regimes is different than Islamic Terrorism though.

But when did we ever annex Chile or Argentina? When did we ever destabilize countries specifically to prevent them from becoming 1st world countries?

We annexed Texas to California. It used to be part of Mexico. We had a war with them and then we ended it by paying them 20 Million something like that. But the USA has destabilized dozens of other countries for various reasons.

so your example is from 180 years ago?

After WWII the world grew up and decided said actions were no longer tolerable and that thinking has been in place ever since then.

Also the land we took from Mexico was frontier land. there is a massive difference between taking unsettled land verse land settled by a different ethnic group with a different history, religion, language, culture, etc. That's why trying to compare the Mexican-American war to other examples "israel occupation) is stupid.

The US didn't take modern day Mexico and Mexico scoffed at the Zimmerman Telegram for the very same reason. Frontier land vs settled land is fundamentally different.

We've destabilize countries in the last few years. Iraq, Ukraine, and the Arab spring come to mind. We've droned thousands and our CIA assassinated people.

We're not innocent.

The Arab spring rose up because the people are tired of dictator regimes. Egypt is one of those that have been heavy handed dictatorship which the people got tired and rose up against. The people want freedom away from dictators. Yes, the countries that we are allies with in friendship are a dictatorship that violates human rights big time in those countries.

Can you imagine the right wing screech machine if Obama did anything close to this? It's amazing the hypocrisy so many of you show.

(02-06-2017 01:40 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Can you imagine the right wing screech machine if Obama did anything close to this? It's amazing the hypocrisy so many of you show.

Well we need a calculator to count Obama's apology speeches.

Odd that the left simultaneously argues that we can't keep immigrants from countries we are at 'war' against out because it isn't actually a war against that country, but then deny that we haven't killed anyone except in 'war'. Any of you that think we haven't 'killed' people in other countries outside a declaration of war is lying to themselves.... and more importantly, any leftist who screamed 'Bush lied, people died' (which was most of them) and now has a problem with what Trump said is a hypocrite. SOME of you on here have recently (when talking about why the Saudi's aren't on the list of nations) said so.

If he had denied it, you all would be citing Bush as a war criminal and bemoaning Trump's American Arrogance.

Putin is the elected leader of his country... best we know (otherwise I suspect we would have said so) the freely elected leader.

Get over your feigned outrage.

(02-06-2017 12:30 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 12:22 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 12:20 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  War is different than regime change and assassinations and or attempts. CIA has certainly been in this game. Argentina comes to mind. We have been aggressive in combating Communist Socialist countries regimes, both in fighting wars, Korea, Vietnam, and covert stuff. Although I don't want see people die it has probably been a positive.
We got dragged into 2 World Wars so it makes sense to whatever we need to nip it the bud globally. Fighting communist regimes is different than Islamic Terrorism though.

But when did we ever annex Chile or Argentina? When did we ever destabilize countries specifically to prevent them from becoming 1st world countries?

We annexed Texas to California. It used to be part of Mexico. We had a war with them and then we ended it by paying them 20 Million something like that. But the USA has destabilized dozens of other countries for various reasons.

Texas seceded from Mexico and won its independence. The Battle of the Alamo and the Battle of San Jacinto and all that. The US did not annex from Mexico. And Cincinnati supplied a couple of the cannons that helped in the war effort, the "Twin Sisters."

(02-06-2017 01:27 PM)john01992 Wrote:  since you love to omit what the other side is saying let me lay it out for you.

We have our own faults, but our transgressions pale in comparison to what Russia does. The single biggest issue with this trump quote is that he is defending Putin. That's the problem. we have a POTUS that clearly has a viewpoint regarding Putin that is significantly flawed and possibly the result of his being compromised.

The left is also the only one making these 'equivalent'.

All Trump said is that our leaders have had people killed. What you're trying to imply is 'murder' which isn't the same thing as kill. If you can prove it, then do so. I suspect you'll have a hard time getting a court or international body to hear your case... and NOW you understand why many on the right don't like the UN or World Courts.

I never want to hear any of you guys ***** about a one sided media. Can any of you wingnuts comprehend the **** storm press Obama would have gotten for 1/16th of this???? It would be 24-7 why does Obama hate America. Drudge and Fox would have 24-7 wall to wall coverage. Is Obama being black mailed. There would be congressional hearings out the yin yang. You guys have it made when it comes to media coverage.

(02-06-2017 01:48 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 01:40 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Can you imagine the right wing screech machine if Obama did anything close to this? It's amazing the hypocrisy so many of you show.

Well we need a calculator to count Obama's apology speeches.

SMH. You can do better than that. That response is weak on so many levels. You're disappointing me right now. I expect better from you. Come on man.

The liberals are becoming more and more petty everyday.

(02-06-2017 03:28 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I never want to hear any of you guys ***** about a one sided media. Can any of you wingnuts comprehend the **** storm press Obama would have gotten for 1/16th of this???? It would be 24-7 why does Obama hate America. Drudge and Fox would have 24-7 wall to wall coverage. Is Obama being black mailed. There would be congressional hearings out the yin yang. You guys have it made when it comes to media coverage.

I'm no fan of Putin, the Russian people don't seem bad on balance. With that said, it would appear that Trump would rather come to some level of cooperation with Russia and Putin.

There is Russia, China, and the Middle East quagmire that includes Iran, etc. One thing we as a country may have to do is prioritize what and whom we want to deal with. Maybe Trump feels that of the three, Russia is the most likely to be able to come to some sort of working relationship with.

I am in no way suggesting that we gloss over the things that Putin has done, but given the history of how many times Russia has been invaded in the past, I can at least understand some of their paranoia. It doesn't excuse their expansionist compulsion to provide a buffer zone for "Mother Russia", but at minimum there is at least some logic to it.

(02-06-2017 03:32 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 01:48 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 01:40 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Can you imagine the right wing screech machine if Obama did anything close to this? It's amazing the hypocrisy so many of you show.

Well we need a calculator to count Obama's apology speeches.

SMH. You can do better than that. That response is weak on so many levels. You're disappointing me right now. I expect better from you. Come on man.

I don't expect more from you. Usually you create threads and run and hide.

(02-06-2017 03:40 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  The liberals are becoming more and more petty everyday.

That's funny.

(02-06-2017 03:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 03:40 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  The liberals are becoming more and more petty everyday.

That's funny.

The truth hurts.

(02-06-2017 03:43 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 03:32 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 01:48 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 01:40 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Can you imagine the right wing screech machine if Obama did anything close to this? It's amazing the hypocrisy so many of you show.

Well we need a calculator to count Obama's apology speeches.

SMH. You can do better than that. That response is weak on so many levels. You're disappointing me right now. I expect better from you. Come on man.

I don't expect more from you. Usually you create threads and run and hide.

Who am I hiding from, you?

(02-06-2017 03:28 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I never want to hear any of you guys ***** about a one sided media. Can any of you wingnuts comprehend the **** storm press Obama would have gotten for 1/16th of this???? It would be 24-7 why does Obama hate America. Drudge and Fox would have 24-7 wall to wall coverage. Is Obama being black mailed. There would be congressional hearings out the yin yang. You guys have it made when it comes to media coverage.

So because Drudge and Fox would be all over this if it were Obama, that is the equivalent of CNN and MSNBC and CBS and Reuters and the NY Times and HuffPo etc etc etc? We've got it made because there are fewer outlets that lean right??

(02-06-2017 01:40 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Can you imagine the right wing screech machine if Obama did anything close to this? It's amazing the hypocrisy so many of you show.

Did what?

What exactly did he do in this interview?

Do you not agree we are all better off if we can work with Putin? Like him or not? Yea, he's a commie thug, so was Stalin. But, if we have a/several common enemies, are we not better off fighting them together instead if fighting them too?