The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(01-25-2017 06:13 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 06:05 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  Serious question, how can you justify our mediocre front court next year? Why do you think that front court is going to be markedly better and be a potential NCAA tourney team?

I'd really like to know.

Same reason people thing the football team will win 8 or more games next year without a QB.... some people are optimistic... some people choose not to live their lives with a glass half full mentality instead of a broken glass mentality

I suppose that's how we collapsed under Blaine taylor too? We ignored all the warning signs and just chose to believe things would magically get better......

(01-25-2017 06:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  And how do you think a team that struggles this year is going to be markedly better with the same players basically getting all the minutes, minus two starters.

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Well because we are bringing in two good freshman and everyone knows playing true freshman big minutes is a surefire way to make the NCAA tourney.

My hope is that we will have an Alex Laughton or Gerald Lee kind of big man signing prior to September. Don't have any idea that it is going to be happening though. All that I know for sure is that the coaches are looking for a big man to bring in.

Short of something like that happening it is difficult for me to be greatly optimistic about next season being a 25 - 30 win season with at least a strong potential of getting an NCAA tournament berth (either automatic or at large).

(01-25-2017 06:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  And how do you think a team that struggles this year is going to be markedly better with the same players basically getting all the minutes, minus two starters.

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I don't know who you were asking this question to, but don't most players get better as they progress through college? Seems to me our best players are sophomores so shouldn't we expect them to continue to get better? Remember Bazemore as a freshman?

Better how? defensively maybe, offensively, not so sure. Taylor certainly has not developed into an offensive juggernaut. I'm sure J Giles can tell us how most of the recent players have fared.

(01-25-2017 06:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  And how do you think a team that struggles this year is going to be markedly better with the same players basically getting all the minutes, minus two starters.

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Because according to "those who claim to know basketball" those two are our worst player.

How does anyone expect the football team to win 6 games next season after losing some of their best players?

Jones gets paid to coach. The man knows the Xs & Os. I am not worried about it.

Some people are just looking for things to ***** about. Those tend to be the people who have sad and pathetic lives. The type that watch more college basketball than anyone else and sit behind a computer and play internet thug.

(01-25-2017 06:27 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 06:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  And how do you think a team that struggles this year is going to be markedly better with the same players basically getting all the minutes, minus two starters.

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Well because we are bringing in two good freshman and everyone knows playing true freshman big minutes is a surefire way to make the NCAA tourney.

If I actually though there was any chance JJ would play them big minutes, I'd be more optimistic about next year.

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(01-25-2017 07:04 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 06:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  And how do you think a team that struggles this year is going to be markedly better with the same players basically getting all the minutes, minus two starters.

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I don't know who you were asking this question to, but don't most players get better as they progress through college? Seems to me our best players are sophomores so shouldn't we expect them to continue to get better? Remember Bazemore as a freshman?

Sure they get better. But it is not likely they will get THAT much better. They will probably improve enough to make up for what we lose, but I doubt they will improve enough to make us a 25 win (without four wins in an irrelevant post season tournament) team.

These are not young players for the most part, even though they are sophomores. Talley is in his 4th year out of high school, basically a senior physically. Brandan (junior), BJ, and Trey all had red shirt years as well. I would not expect huge leaps from those guys, with the possible exception of BJ. Caver is a true Soph, so I do expect him to be much more polished next year, and we do add some nice looking pieces, but I am not sure where their minutes will come from. Talley and BJ will eat up a the huge majority of minutes on the wing, and Caver will take nearly all of the minutes at the point. I am not sure where Green, Godwin, and Hueitt will get the minutes needed to make a major difference next year. I don't think I am being negative, I just don't see where a huge improvement next year can come from.

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(01-25-2017 07:04 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 06:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  And how do you think a team that struggles this year is going to be markedly better with the same players basically getting all the minutes, minus two starters.

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I don't know who you were asking this question to, but don't most players get better as they progress through college? Seems to me our best players are sophomores so shouldn't we expect them to continue to get better? Remember Bazemore as a freshman?

Bazemore was a once in a decade player, maybe once in a program who dedicated himself like few other players ever have.

Not to mention he was 6"5 with a 7 foot wing span. I don't see anyone capable of bazemore growth on the team. The only one who even has that potential is talley.

(01-25-2017 07:20 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 06:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  And how do you think a team that struggles this year is going to be markedly better with the same players basically getting all the minutes, minus two starters.

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Because according to "those who claim to know basketball" those two are our worst player.

How does anyone expect the football team to win 6 games next season after losing some of their best players?

Jones gets paid to coach. The man knows the Xs & Os. I am not worried about it.

Some people are just looking for things to ***** about. Those tend to be the people who have sad and pathetic lives. The type that watch more college basketball than anyone else and sit behind a computer and play internet thug.

Another genius comment from the three time drain poster of the year with multiple screen names lol. Talk about pathetic.

Taylor and baker aren't very good basketball players but they are hardly our worst players which really says a lot about this years team.

Neither of them would have sniffed the court during Blaine's heyday and now we are discussing how we will need to replace them with freshman to make the NCAA tourney......AWESOME.

(01-25-2017 08:08 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 07:04 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 06:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  And how do you think a team that struggles this year is going to be markedly better with the same players basically getting all the minutes, minus two starters.

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I don't know who you were asking this question to, but don't most players get better as they progress through college? Seems to me our best players are sophomores so shouldn't we expect them to continue to get better? Remember Bazemore as a freshman?

Sure they get better. But it is not likely they will get THAT much better. They will probably improve enough to make up for what we lose, but I doubt they will improve enough to make us a 25 win (without four wins in an irrelevant post season tournament) team.

These are not young players for the most part, even though they are sophomores. Talley is in his 4th year out of high school, basically a senior physically. Brandan (junior), BJ, and Trey all had red shirt years as well. I would not expect huge leaps from those guys, with the possible exception of BJ. Caver is a true Soph, so I do expect him to be much more polished next year, and we do add some nice looking pieces, but I am not sure where their minutes will come from. Talley and BJ will eat up a the huge majority of minutes on the wing, and Caver will take nearly all of the minutes at the point. I am not sure where Green, Godwin, and Hueitt will get the minutes needed to make a major difference next year. I don't think I am being negative, I just don't see where a huge improvement next year can come from.

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That's because you are using basic logic instead of "Jeff jones knows X's and O's and freshman will replace seniors with no problem and we'll see an improvement from everyone and magically go from a 150 rpi to a 40-50 rpi (what will be needed at minimum for an at large) insane homerism.

But that just makes you sad and pathetic apparently because you dared to question Coach K jr.

If you guys believe 20 year olds dont improve year over year, why would anyone waste their time trying to argue? You can read the evidence yourselves and believe what you want.

I dont remember reading anyone say OdU would be top 40-50 next year, but if theybdid; sobeit. The team was around 100 in kenpom when Stith went down.

Im not sure what "replacing Baker and Taylor" with freshman even means. Doesnt every team replace seniors on the roster with freshman? (Outside of juco/transfers, obv).

Its not hard to see the reason why people would say we should be much better next year. Our 3 best players are returning and will be JR/SRs. We have a solid player coming back in Porter. An talented enigma in BJ. And the best two recruits we've had in years. Plus a redshirt freshman that was pretty highly rated. Not losing much.

If people dont think the team will be better next year, thats their opinion. I would love to read a well opined reason for thinking that (other than ZOMG, Jeff Jones cant coach!).

(01-25-2017 10:06 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If you guys believe 20 year olds dont improve year over year, why would anyone waste their time trying to argue? You can read the evidence yourselves and believe what you want.

I dont remember reading anyone say OdU would be top 40-50 next year, but if theybdid; sobeit. The team was around 100 in kenpom when Stith went down.

Im not sure what "replacing Baker and Taylor" with freshman even means. Doesnt every team replace seniors on the roster with freshman? (Outside of juco/transfers, obv).

Its not hard to see the reason why people would say we should be much better next year. Our 3 best players are returning and will be JR/SRs. We have a solid player coming back in Porter. An talented enigma in BJ. And the best two recruits we've had in years. Plus a redshirt freshman that was pretty highly rated. Not losing much.

If people dont think the team will be better next year, thats their opinion. I would love to read a well opined reason for thinking that (other than ZOMG, Jeff Jones cant coach!).

This is the type of inane post it's nearly impossible to respond to.

No one said they won't improve at all, I just said to expect bazemore improvement is insane. I also questioned whether they will improve enough to make us an at large team. If they don't, it's year 5 and jones needs to go.

Also, yes, you replace seniors with freshman.......way to completely miss the point as usual. We are discussing giving true freshman big minutes out of the gate because we have no one better on the roster to replace baker or Taylor. That is NOT something good programs do.

Yes, our 3 best players are returning but it's questionable how good they actually are. I'm not sure any of them is a potential first teamer in an very bad cusa. That's not good.

And again......your straw man argument is absurd. No one said we won't be better next year. What we questioned is will we be a NCAA tourney team. It'll be year 5 and many of us don't see next years team being good enough to get there either. Try and respond with actual logic and not absurd straw man garbage.

(01-25-2017 10:06 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If you guys believe 20 year olds dont improve year over year, why would anyone waste their time trying to argue? You can read the evidence yourselves and believe what you want.

I dont remember reading anyone say OdU would be top 40-50 next year, but if theybdid; sobeit. The team was around 100 in kenpom when Stith went down.

Im not sure what "replacing Baker and Taylor" with freshman even means. Doesnt every team replace seniors on the roster with freshman? (Outside of juco/transfers, obv).

Its not hard to see the reason why people would say we should be much better next year. Our 3 best players are returning and will be JR/SRs. We have a solid player coming back in Porter. An talented enigma in BJ. And the best two recruits we've had in years. Plus a redshirt freshman that was pretty highly rated. Not losing much.

If people dont think the team will be better next year, thats their opinion. I would love to read a well opined reason for thinking that (other than ZOMG, Jeff Jones cant coach!).

Your twisting what people say, and cherry picking pieces to argue out of context is getting old, so I will just leave it at this.

1. I clearly did not say the players would not improve.
2. They are not 20 years old aside from Caver.

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How many days in a row will you all make the exact same arguments? Both sides. You are all repeating yourselves over and over. We get it, you don't like the program right now. We get it, you think the program will be better next year. Alright. Hopefully we don't get blown out at Rice or we get to have another 20 pages of reading the same thing.

(01-25-2017 10:22 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 10:06 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If you guys believe 20 year olds dont improve year over year, why would anyone waste their time trying to argue? You can read the evidence yourselves and believe what you want.

I dont remember reading anyone say OdU would be top 40-50 next year, but if theybdid; sobeit. The team was around 100 in kenpom when Stith went down.

Im not sure what "replacing Baker and Taylor" with freshman even means. Doesnt every team replace seniors on the roster with freshman? (Outside of juco/transfers, obv).

Its not hard to see the reason why people would say we should be much better next year. Our 3 best players are returning and will be JR/SRs. We have a solid player coming back in Porter. An talented enigma in BJ. And the best two recruits we've had in years. Plus a redshirt freshman that was pretty highly rated. Not losing much.

If people dont think the team will be better next year, thats their opinion. I would love to read a well opined reason for thinking that (other than ZOMG, Jeff Jones cant coach!).

This is the type of inane post it's nearly impossible to respond to.

No one said they won't improve at all, I just said to expect bazemore improvement is insane. I also questioned whether they will improve enough to make us an at large team. If they don't, it's year 5 and jones needs to go.

Also, yes, you replace seniors with freshman.......way to completely miss the point as usual. We are discussing giving true freshman big minutes out of the gate because we have no one better on the roster to replace baker or Taylor. That is NOT something good programs do.

Yes, our 3 best players are returning but it's questionable how good they actually are. I'm not sure any of them is a potential first teamer in an very bad cusa. That's not good.

And again......your straw man argument is absurd. No one said we won't be better next year. What we questioned is will we be a NCAA tourney team. It'll be year 5 and many of us don't see next years team being good enough to get there either. Try and respond with actual logic and not absurd straw man garbage.

Do you really think we are giving big minutes to any true freshman next year when we have Green, BJ, Haynes, Stith, Porter at those two positions? If any true freshman play 20 mins per game, they will have blown up from the start.

(01-26-2017 06:35 AM)odu09 Wrote:  How many days in a row will you all make the exact same arguments? Both sides. You are all repeating yourselves over and over. We get it, you don't like the program right now. We get it, you think the program will be better next year. Alright. Hopefully we don't get blown out at Rice or we get to have another 20 pages of reading the same thing.

You have the option of ignoring posters and/or not opening this thread.

(01-26-2017 06:35 AM)odu09 Wrote:  How many days in a row will you all make the exact same arguments? Both sides. You are all repeating yourselves over and over. We get it, you don't like the program right now. We get it, you think the program will be better next year. Alright. Hopefully we don't get blown out at Rice or we get to have another 20 pages of reading the same thing.

Yeah. The circular argument has become tiresome. This thread is moving toward embarrassing.

I don't see any reason Hueitt can't have a Marcus Evans-type impact. He fills (or could fill) a very big need for us. Not saying he's going to lead CUSA in scoring, but I can see him contributing significantly.

(01-26-2017 09:51 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  I don't see any reason Hueitt can't have a Marcus Evans-type impact. He fills (or could fill) a very big need for us. Not saying he's going to lead CUSA in scoring, but I can see him contributing significantly.

I agree that one or both of Godwin and Hueitt COULD have that kind of impact, but the question is where do the minutes come from? You have to play a lot to have that kind of impact. I am interested in hearing others thoughts on this one, because it is an intriguing situation for JJ to work out next year.