(01-18-2017 06:40 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:20 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  Speaking as an App alumni who was in school during the transition from FCS to FBS I definitely want regional conferences. For example, when App was FCS our fans would get pumped playing teams like Western Carolina and Elon. Not because those teams were necessarily good (no disrespect to either team) but because there were fans of each team who were neighbors, co-workers, family members, etc. It added another level to the rivalry. Once App moved up to FBS it was hard to get fans excited to play teams like New Mexico State, Louisiana Lafayette, and Arkansas State. It wasn't because those teams were bad either (Louisiana Lafayette and Arkansas State are usually really good teams) but because there is no fan base overlap. Those games were missing that extra piece of the rivalry. Unless you went online to the Sun Belt board there wasn't any smack talk that goes along with a good rivalry. In order to develop good rivalries I think there usually needs to be overlapping of fan bases. I see Charlotte, ECU, Marshall, and ODU fans where I live but I have yet to see any Arkansas State or Louisiana Lafayette fans. Regional rivalries always draw crowds if both schools have decent fan bases.

My proposed realignment:
CUSA
Marshall
WKU
ODU
JMU
App State
Charlotte
Middle Tennessee
Coastal
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
FIU
FAU

SUN BELT
Arkansas State
Troy
South Alabama
UAB
Southern Miss
Lousiana Tech
Lousiana
ULM
North Texas
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Rice
New Mexico State

A lot of those schools do not want to play in the same conference

CUSA is still a better brand than SBC, although SBC is working on closing that gap. CUSA will pick things up in the next few years, with UTSA and ODU making positive strides (although ODU needs to expand stadium). Then we'll separate some from SBC.

If we are just making things up, I'd keep current CUSA, but trade UTEP and FIU for App State and Ark State.

(01-19-2017 01:03 PM)va-eagle Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:40 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:20 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  Speaking as an App alumni who was in school during the transition from FCS to FBS I definitely want regional conferences. For example, when App was FCS our fans would get pumped playing teams like Western Carolina and Elon. Not because those teams were necessarily good (no disrespect to either team) but because there were fans of each team who were neighbors, co-workers, family members, etc. It added another level to the rivalry. Once App moved up to FBS it was hard to get fans excited to play teams like New Mexico State, Louisiana Lafayette, and Arkansas State. It wasn't because those teams were bad either (Louisiana Lafayette and Arkansas State are usually really good teams) but because there is no fan base overlap. Those games were missing that extra piece of the rivalry. Unless you went online to the Sun Belt board there wasn't any smack talk that goes along with a good rivalry. In order to develop good rivalries I think there usually needs to be overlapping of fan bases. I see Charlotte, ECU, Marshall, and ODU fans where I live but I have yet to see any Arkansas State or Louisiana Lafayette fans. Regional rivalries always draw crowds if both schools have decent fan bases.

My proposed realignment:
CUSA
Marshall
WKU
ODU
JMU
App State
Charlotte
Middle Tennessee
Coastal
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
FIU
FAU

SUN BELT
Arkansas State
Troy
South Alabama
UAB
Southern Miss
Lousiana Tech
Lousiana
ULM
North Texas
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Rice
New Mexico State

A lot of those schools do not want to play in the same conference

CUSA is still a better brand than SBC, although SBC is working on closing that gap. CUSA will pick things up in the next few years, with UTSA and ODU making positive strides (although ODU needs to expand stadium). Then we'll separate some from SBC.

If we are just making things up, I'd keep current CUSA, but trade UTEP and FIU for App State and Ark State.

I could live with that.

Well, if I go that route? Why not take the best schools from the G5 conferences that do get a lot of viewers watching them on tv? UTEP, Southern Mississippi, UAB, Rice and UTSA do get the better tv audience than the rest of the C-USA. Old Dominion would be the one that could be on the rise as well if they keep winning. I will throw Middle Tennessee State and Marshall in the mix.

Central:
UTEP
Rice
UTSA
Houston
SMU
La. Tech
Tulane
Arkansas State
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Air Force
New Mexico
Wichita State
Missouri State (basketball)
Northern Iowa
Creighton
Montana

Southeast:
Southern Mississippi
UAB
Middle Tennessee State
Memphis
UCF
USF
South Alabama
Troy
Georgia Southern
Chattanooga
Jacksonville State

Mid Atlantic:
Old Dominion
East Carolina
Navy
Richmond (basketball)
VCU
College of Charleston
Georgetown

Midwest:
Marshall
Cincinnati
Toledo
Akron
Ohio U.
Northern Illinois
Central Michigan
Western Michigan
Dayton
Butler
Marquette
Xavier

Northeast:
Army
UConn
Temple
Villanova
New Hampshire
James Madison
St. John's
UMass. (basketball)
Providence

ACC could destroy the Big East basketball if they invited Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova a few years ago. ACC would have won the men's basketball title last year as Villanova as the winner. That would have meant that those three schools have to ramp up football to join the ACC.

West Coast:
Boise State
San Diego State
Fresno State
UNR
UNLV
Eastern Washington
Gonzaga
Utah State
BYU
St. Mary's
Fullerton State
Hawaii
Cal.-Irvine


You could see which schools are attractive in each conferences. There are schools not in the FBS that do much better in tv viewership than those that got called up. It would be nice to see schools that do not have football ramp up the sport to see if they get grabbed by a FBS conference in the future because of their basketball program. Lets say we form new conferences by tv viewers? We could see that schools like C-USA get the schools that do get the viewers and throw the rejects into the SBC. C-USA made the right moves with Marshall, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion, UTSA and Middle Tennessee State. They made bad choices in North Texas, FAU, FIU and Charlotte.

(01-19-2017 06:03 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Well, if I go that route? Why not take the best schools from the G5 conferences that do get a lot of viewers watching them on tv? UTEP, Southern Mississippi, UAB, Rice and UTSA do get the better tv audience than the rest of the C-USA. Old Dominion would be the one that could be on the rise as well if they keep winning. I will throw Middle Tennessee State and Marshall in the mix.

Central:
UTEP
Rice
UTSA
Houston
SMU
La. Tech
Tulane
Arkansas State
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Air Force
New Mexico
Wichita State
Missouri State (basketball)
Northern Iowa
Creighton
Montana

Southeast:
Southern Mississippi
UAB
Middle Tennessee State
Memphis
UCF
USF
South Alabama
Troy
Georgia Southern
Chattanooga
Jacksonville State

Mid Atlantic:
Old Dominion
East Carolina
Navy
Richmond (basketball)
VCU
College of Charleston
Georgetown

Midwest:
Marshall
Cincinnati
Toledo
Akron
Ohio U.
Northern Illinois
Central Michigan
Western Michigan
Dayton
Butler
Marquette
Xavier

Northeast:
Army
UConn
Temple
Villanova
New Hampshire
James Madison
St. John's
UMass. (basketball)
Providence

ACC could destroy the Big East basketball if they invited Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova a few years ago. ACC would have won the men's basketball title last year as Villanova as the winner. That would have meant that those three schools have to ramp up football to join the ACC.

West Coast:
Boise State
San Diego State
Fresno State
UNR
UNLV
Eastern Washington
Gonzaga
Utah State
BYU
St. Mary's
Fullerton State
Hawaii
Cal.-Irvine


You could see which schools are attractive in each conferences. There are schools not in the FBS that do much better in tv viewership than those that got called up. It would be nice to see schools that do not have football ramp up the sport to see if they get grabbed by a FBS conference in the future because of their basketball program. Lets say we form new conferences by tv viewers? We could see that schools like C-USA get the schools that do get the viewers and throw the rejects into the SBC. C-USA made the right moves with Marshall, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion, UTSA and Middle Tennessee State. They made bad choices in North Texas, FAU, FIU and Charlotte.

LOL *snort*


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

the biggest problem that both CUSA and the SB face is that they overlap territory. that is holding BOTH leagues back.

no other league at the P5 or G5 levels face this problem. This is something that the ACC realized and is why they scooped up the best teams from BE football and basically killed that league giving them a wide territory that they control alone on the east coast at the P5 level.

the best thing for the schools in those two leagues is to take the best supported, highest ceiling programs and come together and kill off the other side. Doesn't matter if its the SB or CUSA name.

Marshall
JMU (don't give me the FCS startup BS - we will EASILY prove our worth and if you don't recognize our ceiling, its just out of naiveity).
ODU
Charlotte
App St
Coastal
WKU
MTSU

Ga Southern
UAB
Troy
South Alabama
Southern Miss
Louisiana
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State

this league will have incredible local and regional interest/rivalries from all institutions from a fan and local media perspective, and it will INCREASE TV revenue simply because it will eliminate one league allowing for more air time and network dollars to be distributed and because it brings together the best supported programs out there that have the ability to continue to grow and sustain that support.

Yes it is 16 pieces of the pie, but it would still increase the per share dollar figure per school and reverse the trend of declining revenues from TV and attendance drops and reduce travel expenses for non-revenue sports due to its tighter geographic divisions.

Rivalry week on final Saturday of season:

JMU-ODU
Charlotte - App St
WKU - MTSU
Coastal - Ga Southern
UAB - Troy
So Miss - South Alabama
La Tech - Louisiana
Marshall - Ark State

(01-18-2017 06:40 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:20 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  Speaking as an App alumni who was in school during the transition from FCS to FBS I definitely want regional conferences. For example, when App was FCS our fans would get pumped playing teams like Western Carolina and Elon. Not because those teams were necessarily good (no disrespect to either team) but because there were fans of each team who were neighbors, co-workers, family members, etc. It added another level to the rivalry. Once App moved up to FBS it was hard to get fans excited to play teams like New Mexico State, Louisiana Lafayette, and Arkansas State. It wasn't because those teams were bad either (Louisiana Lafayette and Arkansas State are usually really good teams) but because there is no fan base overlap. Those games were missing that extra piece of the rivalry. Unless you went online to the Sun Belt board there wasn't any smack talk that goes along with a good rivalry. In order to develop good rivalries I think there usually needs to be overlapping of fan bases. I see Charlotte, ECU, Marshall, and ODU fans where I live but I have yet to see any Arkansas State or Louisiana Lafayette fans. Regional rivalries always draw crowds if both schools have decent fan bases.

My proposed realignment:
CUSA
Marshall
WKU
ODU
JMU
App State
Charlotte
Middle Tennessee
Coastal
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
FIU
FAU

SUN BELT
Arkansas State
Troy
South Alabama
UAB
Southern Miss
Lousiana Tech
Lousiana
ULM
North Texas
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Rice
New Mexico State

A lot of those schools do not want to play in the same conference

Can you expand on that?

Seems really strange that low level FBS schools would be too snooty to play thier closeby neighbors and prefer to play games several states away where almost none of thier fans attend. . As AD's they are really all very similar from a $ standpoint. Both conferences are about equally worthless from a TV contract perspective. So where does the snootiness come from?

I personally would love to see the Sun Belt and C-USA have division champs play in a 4 team playoff on CC weekend and then let the winners play in the New Orleans bowl for a championship.

(01-20-2017 11:04 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:40 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:20 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  Speaking as an App alumni who was in school during the transition from FCS to FBS I definitely want regional conferences. For example, when App was FCS our fans would get pumped playing teams like Western Carolina and Elon. Not because those teams were necessarily good (no disrespect to either team) but because there were fans of each team who were neighbors, co-workers, family members, etc. It added another level to the rivalry. Once App moved up to FBS it was hard to get fans excited to play teams like New Mexico State, Louisiana Lafayette, and Arkansas State. It wasn't because those teams were bad either (Louisiana Lafayette and Arkansas State are usually really good teams) but because there is no fan base overlap. Those games were missing that extra piece of the rivalry. Unless you went online to the Sun Belt board there wasn't any smack talk that goes along with a good rivalry. In order to develop good rivalries I think there usually needs to be overlapping of fan bases. I see Charlotte, ECU, Marshall, and ODU fans where I live but I have yet to see any Arkansas State or Louisiana Lafayette fans. Regional rivalries always draw crowds if both schools have decent fan bases.

My proposed realignment:
CUSA
Marshall
WKU
ODU
JMU
App State
Charlotte
Middle Tennessee
Coastal
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
FIU
FAU

SUN BELT
Arkansas State
Troy
South Alabama
UAB
Southern Miss
Lousiana Tech
Lousiana
ULM
North Texas
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Rice
New Mexico State

A lot of those schools do not want to play in the same conference

Can you expand on that?

Seems really strange that low level FBS schools would be too snooty to play thier closeby neighbors and prefer to play games several states away where almost none of thier fans attend. . As AD's they are really all very similar from a $ standpoint. Both conferences are about equally worthless from a TV contract perspective. So where does the snootiness come from?

I personally would love to see the Sun Belt and C-USA have division champs play in a 4 team playoff on CC weekend and then let the winners play in the New Orleans bowl for a championship.

You don't have to be Oklahoma, or be in a P5 conference to have tradition and pride. I expect most P5 schools would like to see the strongest of the G5 play another G5 school in a bowl, that way they don't have the threat of losing to a G5 school.

(01-20-2017 09:52 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  Rivalry week on final Saturday of season:

JMU-ODU
Charlotte - App St
WKU - MTSU
Coastal - Ga Southern
UAB - Troy
Marshall - South Alabama
La Tech - So Miss
Louisiana-Lafayette - Ark State

FIFY

(01-20-2017 11:04 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:40 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:20 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  Speaking as an App alumni who was in school during the transition from FCS to FBS I definitely want regional conferences. For example, when App was FCS our fans would get pumped playing teams like Western Carolina and Elon. Not because those teams were necessarily good (no disrespect to either team) but because there were fans of each team who were neighbors, co-workers, family members, etc. It added another level to the rivalry. Once App moved up to FBS it was hard to get fans excited to play teams like New Mexico State, Louisiana Lafayette, and Arkansas State. It wasn't because those teams were bad either (Louisiana Lafayette and Arkansas State are usually really good teams) but because there is no fan base overlap. Those games were missing that extra piece of the rivalry. Unless you went online to the Sun Belt board there wasn't any smack talk that goes along with a good rivalry. In order to develop good rivalries I think there usually needs to be overlapping of fan bases. I see Charlotte, ECU, Marshall, and ODU fans where I live but I have yet to see any Arkansas State or Louisiana Lafayette fans. Regional rivalries always draw crowds if both schools have decent fan bases.

My proposed realignment:
CUSA
Marshall
WKU
ODU
JMU
App State
Charlotte
Middle Tennessee
Coastal
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
FIU
FAU

SUN BELT
Arkansas State
Troy
South Alabama
UAB
Southern Miss
Lousiana Tech
Lousiana
ULM
North Texas
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Rice
New Mexico State

A lot of those schools do not want to play in the same conference

Can you expand on that?

Seems really strange that low level FBS schools would be too snooty to play thier closeby neighbors and prefer to play games several states away where almost none of thier fans attend. . As AD's they are really all very similar from a $ standpoint. Both conferences are about equally worthless from a TV contract perspective. So where does the snootiness come from?

I personally would love to see the Sun Belt and C-USA have division champs play in a 4 team playoff on CC weekend and then let the winners play in the New Orleans bowl for a championship.

Speaking from a La Tech standpoint, although I personally would like to play ULL, most do not feel that way. We made a conscious decision to leave our old rivals behind (ULL, ULM, Northwestern State (FCS)) as we work on building a better name for ourselves and moving up in the world. We've won 8 straight games against ULL (the last time they beat us, they went by a different name) and won these games by an average of 30 points or so. We're moving on to bigger and better things.

(01-20-2017 12:38 PM)va-eagle Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 11:04 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:40 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:20 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  Speaking as an App alumni who was in school during the transition from FCS to FBS I definitely want regional conferences. For example, when App was FCS our fans would get pumped playing teams like Western Carolina and Elon. Not because those teams were necessarily good (no disrespect to either team) but because there were fans of each team who were neighbors, co-workers, family members, etc. It added another level to the rivalry. Once App moved up to FBS it was hard to get fans excited to play teams like New Mexico State, Louisiana Lafayette, and Arkansas State. It wasn't because those teams were bad either (Louisiana Lafayette and Arkansas State are usually really good teams) but because there is no fan base overlap. Those games were missing that extra piece of the rivalry. Unless you went online to the Sun Belt board there wasn't any smack talk that goes along with a good rivalry. In order to develop good rivalries I think there usually needs to be overlapping of fan bases. I see Charlotte, ECU, Marshall, and ODU fans where I live but I have yet to see any Arkansas State or Louisiana Lafayette fans. Regional rivalries always draw crowds if both schools have decent fan bases.

My proposed realignment:
CUSA
Marshall
WKU
ODU
JMU
App State
Charlotte
Middle Tennessee
Coastal
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
FIU
FAU

SUN BELT
Arkansas State
Troy
South Alabama
UAB
Southern Miss
Lousiana Tech
Lousiana
ULM
North Texas
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Rice
New Mexico State

A lot of those schools do not want to play in the same conference

Can you expand on that?

Seems really strange that low level FBS schools would be too snooty to play thier closeby neighbors and prefer to play games several states away where almost none of thier fans attend. . As AD's they are really all very similar from a $ standpoint. Both conferences are about equally worthless from a TV contract perspective. So where does the snootiness come from?

I personally would love to see the Sun Belt and C-USA have division champs play in a 4 team playoff on CC weekend and then let the winners play in the New Orleans bowl for a championship.

You don't have to be Oklahoma, or be in a P5 conference to have tradition and pride. I expect most P5 schools would like to see the strongest of the G5 play another G5 school in a bowl, that way they don't have the threat of losing to a G5 school.

Never said you did. I figured giving those kids something to play for might mean something. Right now they play for nothing beyond a conference championship and crappy bowl win. I don't think anybody in the p-5 is afraid of g-5 bowl games. They just dont' want to play g-5 schools for the same reasons g-5 schools don't want to play g-5 schools in bowls. That's the funny/ironic part of all this. G-5 schools want to play p-5 schools in bowls but dont' want to play g-5 schools. P-5 schools dont' want to play g-5 school and would prefer to play other p-5 schools. So the g-5 is too good to play other g-5's but the p-5 is fine playing other p-5's.

If you watch how the historic black schools have thier own championship in FCS the SUn Belt and USA could do the same thing in FBS.


But back to my original question, why are these schools in equal conference too good to play closeby schools? To the casual fan like myself it makes little sense to have 2 conferences cover similar territory as opposed to having 2 regional conferences where travel costs could be minimized and fans given more opportunities to attend games. .

(01-20-2017 11:04 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:40 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:20 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  Speaking as an App alumni who was in school during the transition from FCS to FBS I definitely want regional conferences. For example, when App was FCS our fans would get pumped playing teams like Western Carolina and Elon. Not because those teams were necessarily good (no disrespect to either team) but because there were fans of each team who were neighbors, co-workers, family members, etc. It added another level to the rivalry. Once App moved up to FBS it was hard to get fans excited to play teams like New Mexico State, Louisiana Lafayette, and Arkansas State. It wasn't because those teams were bad either (Louisiana Lafayette and Arkansas State are usually really good teams) but because there is no fan base overlap. Those games were missing that extra piece of the rivalry. Unless you went online to the Sun Belt board there wasn't any smack talk that goes along with a good rivalry. In order to develop good rivalries I think there usually needs to be overlapping of fan bases. I see Charlotte, ECU, Marshall, and ODU fans where I live but I have yet to see any Arkansas State or Louisiana Lafayette fans. Regional rivalries always draw crowds if both schools have decent fan bases.

My proposed realignment:
CUSA
Marshall
WKU
ODU
JMU
App State
Charlotte
Middle Tennessee
Coastal
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
FIU
FAU

SUN BELT
Arkansas State
Troy
South Alabama
UAB
Southern Miss
Lousiana Tech
Lousiana
ULM
North Texas
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Rice
New Mexico State

A lot of those schools do not want to play in the same conference

Can you expand on that?

Seems really strange that low level FBS schools would be too snooty to play thier closeby neighbors and prefer to play games several states away where almost none of thier fans attend. . As AD's they are really all very similar from a $ standpoint. Both conferences are about equally worthless from a TV contract perspective. So where does the snootiness come from?

I personally would love to see the Sun Belt and C-USA have division champs play in a 4 team playoff on CC weekend and then let the winners play in the New Orleans bowl for a championship.

NMSU and UTEP fans get TV from the same place. ULM and La.Tech fans get local TV from the same place.

Depending on where you live around Texas State, you may get your local TV from the same place at UTSA.

Division I schools tend to want to avoid competing for fan attention in their market with another Division I school unless they can differentiate the product.

Temple couldn't get in the Big East as a basketball member because Villanova didn't want to lose the marketing differential of being Big East while Temple was A10.

If the AAC wants to add a non-football member, they won't put Xavier's name forward and if Cincinnati were to seek affiliation with a non-football league, Xavier isn't likely to put Cincinnati's name in front of the Big East.

So that sort of proximity is going to be an issue.

Then you have issues of base recruiting territory. Most everyone in G5 has a "honey hole" that they can hit to get some decent filler to a class that flies under recruiting service radar. Do you want a nearby competitor who is nearly as close or closer coming in offering kids to play the same schedule you play?

Arkansas State doesn't care if Missouri State joins the Sun Belt (we'd like it) even though our markets bump up against each other, a state line helps shape fan interest and we are far enough part we aren't competing for fans even if the state border weren't a factor. Central Arkansas would be a different story, we don't want to compete for fans in the Little Rock area offering the same essential product as UCA, we don't care about UALR, they don't offer football so it's still a different overall product.

(01-20-2017 11:04 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:40 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:20 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  Speaking as an App alumni who was in school during the transition from FCS to FBS I definitely want regional conferences. For example, when App was FCS our fans would get pumped playing teams like Western Carolina and Elon. Not because those teams were necessarily good (no disrespect to either team) but because there were fans of each team who were neighbors, co-workers, family members, etc. It added another level to the rivalry. Once App moved up to FBS it was hard to get fans excited to play teams like New Mexico State, Louisiana Lafayette, and Arkansas State. It wasn't because those teams were bad either (Louisiana Lafayette and Arkansas State are usually really good teams) but because there is no fan base overlap. Those games were missing that extra piece of the rivalry. Unless you went online to the Sun Belt board there wasn't any smack talk that goes along with a good rivalry. In order to develop good rivalries I think there usually needs to be overlapping of fan bases. I see Charlotte, ECU, Marshall, and ODU fans where I live but I have yet to see any Arkansas State or Louisiana Lafayette fans. Regional rivalries always draw crowds if both schools have decent fan bases.

My proposed realignment:
CUSA
Marshall
WKU
ODU
JMU
App State
Charlotte
Middle Tennessee
Coastal
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
FIU
FAU

SUN BELT
Arkansas State
Troy
South Alabama
UAB
Southern Miss
Lousiana Tech
Lousiana
ULM
North Texas
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Rice
New Mexico State

A lot of those schools do not want to play in the same conference

Can you expand on that?

Seems really strange that low level FBS schools would be too snooty to play thier closeby neighbors and prefer to play games several states away where almost none of thier fans attend. . As AD's they are really all very similar from a $ standpoint. Both conferences are about equally worthless from a TV contract perspective. So where does the snootiness come from?

I personally would love to see the Sun Belt and C-USA have division champs play in a 4 team playoff on CC weekend and then let the winners play in the New Orleans bowl for a championship.

The newbie schools that have entered FBS in the last 25 years all had in common that the first step goal was get into FBS by any means necessary and available. So as a entry step they were all willing to accept SBC/CUSA/MAC and whomever their membership entailed. But now we are talking about stripping down conferences or having airport meetings the result of which is either same conferences with new membership or entirely new conferences. At that I am a President no different than a B12 or ACC or B1G President. Cultural fit, Academic fit and geography will all have a play in it. So for a lot of them its not going to be just let me play the 5 closest G5 schools.

(01-20-2017 03:16 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 11:04 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:40 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:20 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  Speaking as an App alumni who was in school during the transition from FCS to FBS I definitely want regional conferences. For example, when App was FCS our fans would get pumped playing teams like Western Carolina and Elon. Not because those teams were necessarily good (no disrespect to either team) but because there were fans of each team who were neighbors, co-workers, family members, etc. It added another level to the rivalry. Once App moved up to FBS it was hard to get fans excited to play teams like New Mexico State, Louisiana Lafayette, and Arkansas State. It wasn't because those teams were bad either (Louisiana Lafayette and Arkansas State are usually really good teams) but because there is no fan base overlap. Those games were missing that extra piece of the rivalry. Unless you went online to the Sun Belt board there wasn't any smack talk that goes along with a good rivalry. In order to develop good rivalries I think there usually needs to be overlapping of fan bases. I see Charlotte, ECU, Marshall, and ODU fans where I live but I have yet to see any Arkansas State or Louisiana Lafayette fans. Regional rivalries always draw crowds if both schools have decent fan bases.

My proposed realignment:
CUSA
Marshall
WKU
ODU
JMU
App State
Charlotte
Middle Tennessee
Coastal
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
FIU
FAU

SUN BELT
Arkansas State
Troy
South Alabama
UAB
Southern Miss
Lousiana Tech
Lousiana
ULM
North Texas
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Rice
New Mexico State

A lot of those schools do not want to play in the same conference

Can you expand on that?

Seems really strange that low level FBS schools would be too snooty to play thier closeby neighbors and prefer to play games several states away where almost none of thier fans attend. . As AD's they are really all very similar from a $ standpoint. Both conferences are about equally worthless from a TV contract perspective. So where does the snootiness come from?

I personally would love to see the Sun Belt and C-USA have division champs play in a 4 team playoff on CC weekend and then let the winners play in the New Orleans bowl for a championship.

NMSU and UTEP fans get TV from the same place. ULM and La.Tech fans get local TV from the same place.

Depending on where you live around Texas State, you may get your local TV from the same place at UTSA.

Division I schools tend to want to avoid competing for fan attention in their market with another Division I school unless they can differentiate the product.

Temple couldn't get in the Big East as a basketball member because Villanova didn't want to lose the marketing differential of being Big East while Temple was A10.

If the AAC wants to add a non-football member, they won't put Xavier's name forward and if Cincinnati were to seek affiliation with a non-football league, Xavier isn't likely to put Cincinnati's name in front of the Big East.

So that sort of proximity is going to be an issue.

Then you have issues of base recruiting territory. Most everyone in G5 has a "honey hole" that they can hit to get some decent filler to a class that flies under recruiting service radar. Do you want a nearby competitor who is nearly as close or closer coming in offering kids to play the same schedule you play?

Arkansas State doesn't care if Missouri State joins the Sun Belt (we'd like it) even though our markets bump up against each other, a state line helps shape fan interest and we are far enough part we aren't competing for fans even if the state border weren't a factor. Central Arkansas would be a different story, we don't want to compete for fans in the Little Rock area offering the same essential product as UCA, we don't care about UALR, they don't offer football so it's still a different overall product.

That's interesting. I can see that being the case with p-5 level schools protecting turf but quite frankly it makes little sense for these types of schools IMO not to be in the same conference. I don't really think there are a lot of "t-shirt" fans available for these schools in the first place as fans of these schools are likely to have some sort of tie to the school so I do not see the cannibalizing effect. If anything it gives local bragging rights and something for fans who work together in these communities to talk about. This is essentially the same reason so many other conferences have 2 schools in one state.

I'd much prefer to see NMSU and UTEP in the same conference and division. Suddenly that game could have conference championship meaning which only helps increase fan interest at the local level. CUSA and Sun Belt really need to figure out a way to work together as they have a unique opportunity with the same territory more or less.

(01-20-2017 03:50 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 11:04 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:40 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:20 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  Speaking as an App alumni who was in school during the transition from FCS to FBS I definitely want regional conferences. For example, when App was FCS our fans would get pumped playing teams like Western Carolina and Elon. Not because those teams were necessarily good (no disrespect to either team) but because there were fans of each team who were neighbors, co-workers, family members, etc. It added another level to the rivalry. Once App moved up to FBS it was hard to get fans excited to play teams like New Mexico State, Louisiana Lafayette, and Arkansas State. It wasn't because those teams were bad either (Louisiana Lafayette and Arkansas State are usually really good teams) but because there is no fan base overlap. Those games were missing that extra piece of the rivalry. Unless you went online to the Sun Belt board there wasn't any smack talk that goes along with a good rivalry. In order to develop good rivalries I think there usually needs to be overlapping of fan bases. I see Charlotte, ECU, Marshall, and ODU fans where I live but I have yet to see any Arkansas State or Louisiana Lafayette fans. Regional rivalries always draw crowds if both schools have decent fan bases.

My proposed realignment:
CUSA
Marshall
WKU
ODU
JMU
App State
Charlotte
Middle Tennessee
Coastal
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
FIU
FAU

SUN BELT
Arkansas State
Troy
South Alabama
UAB
Southern Miss
Lousiana Tech
Lousiana
ULM
North Texas
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Rice
New Mexico State

A lot of those schools do not want to play in the same conference

Can you expand on that?

Seems really strange that low level FBS schools would be too snooty to play thier closeby neighbors and prefer to play games several states away where almost none of thier fans attend. . As AD's they are really all very similar from a $ standpoint. Both conferences are about equally worthless from a TV contract perspective. So where does the snootiness come from?

I personally would love to see the Sun Belt and C-USA have division champs play in a 4 team playoff on CC weekend and then let the winners play in the New Orleans bowl for a championship.

The newbie schools that have entered FBS in the last 25 years all had in common that the first step goal was get into FBS by any means necessary and available. So as a entry step they were all willing to accept SBC/CUSA/MAC and whomever their membership entailed. But now we are talking about stripping down conferences or having airport meetings the result of which is either same conferences with new membership or entirely new conferences. At that I am a President no different than a B12 or ACC or B1G President. Cultural fit, Academic fit and geography will all have a play in it. So for a lot of them its not going to be just let me play the 5 closest G5 schools.

I think the reality is aside from Rice all these schools are somewhat similar. Same with resources. I certainly understand not wanting to be in a conference with schools who are vastly different but to be honest I just don't see that much difference when it boils down to it. Like I said if anybody has a right to be snooty it might be Rice. They are world class academically and a former p-5 who once hosted a super bowl and now plays in front of high school crowds.

NMSU And UTEP are good examples.
Are they really different enough academically to not be able to share a conference?
Regionally it makes perfect.
Culturally are they really that different that they simply can not share a conference?

(01-20-2017 05:48 PM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 03:50 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 11:04 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:40 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:20 PM)CheckYosef94 Wrote:  Speaking as an App alumni who was in school during the transition from FCS to FBS I definitely want regional conferences. For example, when App was FCS our fans would get pumped playing teams like Western Carolina and Elon. Not because those teams were necessarily good (no disrespect to either team) but because there were fans of each team who were neighbors, co-workers, family members, etc. It added another level to the rivalry. Once App moved up to FBS it was hard to get fans excited to play teams like New Mexico State, Louisiana Lafayette, and Arkansas State. It wasn't because those teams were bad either (Louisiana Lafayette and Arkansas State are usually really good teams) but because there is no fan base overlap. Those games were missing that extra piece of the rivalry. Unless you went online to the Sun Belt board there wasn't any smack talk that goes along with a good rivalry. In order to develop good rivalries I think there usually needs to be overlapping of fan bases. I see Charlotte, ECU, Marshall, and ODU fans where I live but I have yet to see any Arkansas State or Louisiana Lafayette fans. Regional rivalries always draw crowds if both schools have decent fan bases.

My proposed realignment:
CUSA
Marshall
WKU
ODU
JMU
App State
Charlotte
Middle Tennessee
Coastal
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
FIU
FAU

SUN BELT
Arkansas State
Troy
South Alabama
UAB
Southern Miss
Lousiana Tech
Lousiana
ULM
North Texas
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Rice
New Mexico State

A lot of those schools do not want to play in the same conference

Can you expand on that?

Seems really strange that low level FBS schools would be too snooty to play thier closeby neighbors and prefer to play games several states away where almost none of thier fans attend. . As AD's they are really all very similar from a $ standpoint. Both conferences are about equally worthless from a TV contract perspective. So where does the snootiness come from?

I personally would love to see the Sun Belt and C-USA have division champs play in a 4 team playoff on CC weekend and then let the winners play in the New Orleans bowl for a championship.

The newbie schools that have entered FBS in the last 25 years all had in common that the first step goal was get into FBS by any means necessary and available. So as a entry step they were all willing to accept SBC/CUSA/MAC and whomever their membership entailed. But now we are talking about stripping down conferences or having airport meetings the result of which is either same conferences with new membership or entirely new conferences. At that I am a President no different than a B12 or ACC or B1G President. Cultural fit, Academic fit and geography will all have a play in it. So for a lot of them its not going to be just let me play the 5 closest G5 schools.

I think the reality is aside from Rice all these schools are somewhat similar. Same with resources. I certainly understand not wanting to be in a conference with schools who are vastly different but to be honest I just don't see that much difference when it boils down to it. Like I said if anybody has a right to be snooty it might be Rice. They are world class academically and a former p-5 who once hosted a super bowl and now plays in front of high school crowds.

NMSU And UTEP are good examples.
Are they really different enough academically to not be able to share a conference?
Regionally it makes perfect.
Culturally are they really that different that they simply can not share a conference?

Why don't you look at the Carnegie Ranking and research dollars for every school listed...

(01-20-2017 05:50 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 05:48 PM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 03:50 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 11:04 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 06:40 PM)panama Wrote:  A lot of those schools do not want to play in the same conference

Can you expand on that?

Seems really strange that low level FBS schools would be too snooty to play thier closeby neighbors and prefer to play games several states away where almost none of thier fans attend. . As AD's they are really all very similar from a $ standpoint. Both conferences are about equally worthless from a TV contract perspective. So where does the snootiness come from?

I personally would love to see the Sun Belt and C-USA have division champs play in a 4 team playoff on CC weekend and then let the winners play in the New Orleans bowl for a championship.

The newbie schools that have entered FBS in the last 25 years all had in common that the first step goal was get into FBS by any means necessary and available. So as a entry step they were all willing to accept SBC/CUSA/MAC and whomever their membership entailed. But now we are talking about stripping down conferences or having airport meetings the result of which is either same conferences with new membership or entirely new conferences. At that I am a President no different than a B12 or ACC or B1G President. Cultural fit, Academic fit and geography will all have a play in it. So for a lot of them its not going to be just let me play the 5 closest G5 schools.

I think the reality is aside from Rice all these schools are somewhat similar. Same with resources. I certainly understand not wanting to be in a conference with schools who are vastly different but to be honest I just don't see that much difference when it boils down to it. Like I said if anybody has a right to be snooty it might be Rice. They are world class academically and a former p-5 who once hosted a super bowl and now plays in front of high school crowds.

NMSU And UTEP are good examples.
Are they really different enough academically to not be able to share a conference?
Regionally it makes perfect.
Culturally are they really that different that they simply can not share a conference?

Why don't you look at the Carnegie Ranking and research dollars for every school listed...

The only school I am aware of with a vastly different academics is Rice.

It's not like every other conference has members with the same mission. Compare Duke and Louisville. Compare Baylor and Texas. Nebraska and Northwestern. They all have vastly different missions and academic endowments but somehow someway they still manage to share a conference.

And you are telling me that NMSU and UTEP are just too different to ever be able to do that? That seems ridiculous to be honest with you.

You make it out like CUSA is a poor mans ivy league and that Sun Belt is nothing but community colleges which is simply not the case IMO.

(01-20-2017 05:58 PM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 05:50 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 05:48 PM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 03:50 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 11:04 AM)p23570 Wrote:  Can you expand on that?

Seems really strange that low level FBS schools would be too snooty to play thier closeby neighbors and prefer to play games several states away where almost none of thier fans attend. . As AD's they are really all very similar from a $ standpoint. Both conferences are about equally worthless from a TV contract perspective. So where does the snootiness come from?

I personally would love to see the Sun Belt and C-USA have division champs play in a 4 team playoff on CC weekend and then let the winners play in the New Orleans bowl for a championship.

The newbie schools that have entered FBS in the last 25 years all had in common that the first step goal was get into FBS by any means necessary and available. So as a entry step they were all willing to accept SBC/CUSA/MAC and whomever their membership entailed. But now we are talking about stripping down conferences or having airport meetings the result of which is either same conferences with new membership or entirely new conferences. At that I am a President no different than a B12 or ACC or B1G President. Cultural fit, Academic fit and geography will all have a play in it. So for a lot of them its not going to be just let me play the 5 closest G5 schools.

I think the reality is aside from Rice all these schools are somewhat similar. Same with resources. I certainly understand not wanting to be in a conference with schools who are vastly different but to be honest I just don't see that much difference when it boils down to it. Like I said if anybody has a right to be snooty it might be Rice. They are world class academically and a former p-5 who once hosted a super bowl and now plays in front of high school crowds.

NMSU And UTEP are good examples.
Are they really different enough academically to not be able to share a conference?
Regionally it makes perfect.
Culturally are they really that different that they simply can not share a conference?

Why don't you look at the Carnegie Ranking and research dollars for every school listed...

The only school I am aware of with a vastly different academics is Rice.

It's not like every other conference has members with the same mission. Compare Duke and Louisville. Compare Baylor and Texas. Nebraska and Northwestern. They all have vastly different missions and academic endowments but somehow someway they still manage to share a conference.

And you are telling me that NMSU and UTEP are just too different to ever be able to do that? That seems ridiculous to be honest with you.

You make it out like CUSA is a poor mans ivy league and that Sun Belt is nothing but community colleges which is simply not the case IMO.

So you compared the private to the flagship public in every conference? Well that is one way to make your point. You do realize the irony is that yure a fan of a school from a conference that did not expand because nobody could agree on any schools they liked (cultural fit, academic fit, geography).LOL

Why don't you look at the Carnegie Ranking and research dollars for every school listed...

The one problem you guys are facing is that the P5 are squeezing any tv money out of the G5 schools to a point where their contracts are worthless and some may have to drop to FCS. The only ones that are not in trouble are BYU, the MWC, AAC, Army and UMass since the P5 are wanted to play those schools more often. The ADs and school Presidents of the other three most have to come up with a new plan for the future to stay at the FBS level, bite the bullet and be in a conference where you can save money without going broke. I could see a new conference with Troy, South Alabama, North Alabama, Alabama State and Jacksonville State could play each other every year, fans filling the seats to watch their team by traveling in state to watch the games and so forth.

(01-20-2017 06:16 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 05:58 PM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 05:50 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 05:48 PM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 03:50 PM)panama Wrote:  The newbie schools that have entered FBS in the last 25 years all had in common that the first step goal was get into FBS by any means necessary and available. So as a entry step they were all willing to accept SBC/CUSA/MAC and whomever their membership entailed. But now we are talking about stripping down conferences or having airport meetings the result of which is either same conferences with new membership or entirely new conferences. At that I am a President no different than a B12 or ACC or B1G President. Cultural fit, Academic fit and geography will all have a play in it. So for a lot of them its not going to be just let me play the 5 closest G5 schools.

I think the reality is aside from Rice all these schools are somewhat similar. Same with resources. I certainly understand not wanting to be in a conference with schools who are vastly different but to be honest I just don't see that much difference when it boils down to it. Like I said if anybody has a right to be snooty it might be Rice. They are world class academically and a former p-5 who once hosted a super bowl and now plays in front of high school crowds.

NMSU And UTEP are good examples.
Are they really different enough academically to not be able to share a conference?
Regionally it makes perfect.
Culturally are they really that different that they simply can not share a conference?

Why don't you look at the Carnegie Ranking and research dollars for every school listed...

The only school I am aware of with a vastly different academics is Rice.

It's not like every other conference has members with the same mission. Compare Duke and Louisville. Compare Baylor and Texas. Nebraska and Northwestern. They all have vastly different missions and academic endowments but somehow someway they still manage to share a conference.

And you are telling me that NMSU and UTEP are just too different to ever be able to do that? That seems ridiculous to be honest with you.

You make it out like CUSA is a poor mans ivy league and that Sun Belt is nothing but community colleges which is simply not the case IMO.

So you compared the private to the flagship public in every conference? Well that is one way to make your point. You do realize the irony is that yure a fan of a school from a conference that did not expand because nobody could agree on any schools they liked (cultural fit, academic fit, geography).LOL

Why don't you look at the Carnegie Ranking and research dollars for every school listed...

Thant's not true at all. Big 12 wouldn't expand because none of the schools brought enough value. Academically there were good choices. Regionally there were good choices. And as a cultural fit they were not much different than current members. And besides that the Big 12 has nothing to do with this discussion, just you making the most predictable response on this site.

You keep avoiding admitting the fact that NMSU and UTEP are certainly not so different that they could never share a conference. Nor are the other CUSA and Sun Belt schools aside from Rice. I've shown that there are plenty of other conferences with members much more different than what we are discussing here.

At this point it's just one group of midgets telling the other group of midgets they are not tall enough.

I do hope they can work this out someday and avoid students flying cross country and instead put them on short bus rides for some games. Much better for fans as well.