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Hi PJ,

Congratulations on your new gig. While many Bronco fans are disappointed by your decision to leave, most understand that is the American way to strive, to achieve, to go after your goals and dreams, and to earn as much money as you can while you can.

On the other hand, it appears to me that you have lost your way. I am specifically referring to your poaching of Western recruits. I am at a loss to understand how you can preach Family, hard work, row the boat, ethics, honesty, integrity, loyalty, and tell all those many little cute stories and metaphors that you constantly pontificate, then at your first opportunity, steal the recruits of a wounded university, that you wounded, that gave you your big break, that you claim to love.

If you were really elite, as you claim to be, you would've put on your big boy pants and gone after commits from Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin and Penn State. Instead of putting on your big boy pants, you put on your diapers and poached commits of the school that give you every break in the world, and that you turned around and blindsided. How is that elite?

Some might say, well it's common practice to poach recruits at the last minute. Maybe so, maybe not. But imagine the example of eliteness and integrity that you could have established had you refused to go after Western's commits and encouraged them to honor their commitment. Then, all the sloganeering, sad deep personal stories, and pontificating might have meant something, now it just comes across as shallow, self-serving, vacuous word salad manipulation.

In the end, when one looks in the mirror in the morning, one hopes to see a person of ethics, honesty, integrity, substance, consistency, positive values and virtues. If one doesn't see that, than then no matter how many football games they win, they are not elite, no matter what they tell themselves or tell others.

In the end, I wish you good luck. Not on the field, but on your journey to close the gap between what you preach and what you do.

Again, no one is angry because you left, rather people are angry because you sneakily poached your former employer's commits, the employer who took a chance on an unknown, unaccomplished coach and provided him with unprecedented resources in a time of tight budgets, and paid him an excessive salary.

In the end, if you are indeed rowing the boat at this point, you are only rowing it in circles in a shallow pond.

(01-08-2017 08:40 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  Hi PJ,

Congratulations on your new gig. While many Bronco fans are disappointed by your decision to leave, most understand that is the American way to strive, to achieve, to go after your goals and dreams, and to earn as much money as you can while you can.

On the other hand, it appears to me that you have lost your way. I am specifically referring to your poaching of Western recruits. I am at a loss to understand how you can preach Family, hard work, row the boat, ethics, honesty, integrity, loyalty, and tell all those many little cute stories and metaphors that you constantly pontificate, then at your first opportunity, steal the recruits of a wounded university, that you wounded, that gave you your big break, that you claim to love.

If you were really elite, as you claim to be, you would've put on your big boy pants and gone after commits from Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin and Penn State. Instead of putting on your big boy pants, you put on your diapers and poached commits of the school that give you every break in the world, and that you turned around and blindsided. How is that elite?

Some might say, well it's common practice to poach recruits at the last minute. Maybe so, maybe not. But imagine the example of eliteness and integrity that you could have established had you refused to go after Western's commits and encouraged them to honor their commitment. Then, all the sloganeering, sad deep personal stories, and pontificating might have meant something, now it just comes across as shallow, self-serving, vacuous word salad manipulation.

In the end, when one looks in the mirror in the morning, one hopes to see a person of ethics, honesty, integrity, substance, consistency, positive values and virtues. If one doesn't see that, than then no matter how many football games they win, they are not elite, no matter what they tell themselves or tell others.

In the end, I wish you good luck. Not on the field, but on your journey to close the gap between what you preach and what you do.

Again, no one is angry because you left, rather people are angry because you sneakily poached your former employer's commits, the employer who took a chance on an unknown, unaccomplished coach and provided him with unprecedented resources in a time of tight budgets, and paid him an excessive salary.

In the end, if you are indeed rowing the boat at this point, you are only rowing it in circles in a shallow pond.

These kids and their parents have a special bond with PJ, PJ can't make kids and the parents switch their commitments. For instance if Tanner Morgans parents wanted him to remain commited to the Broncos he would be a Bronco, if he decommited and PJ told him that there wasn't room for him at Minnesota he would be at Toledo or Bowling Green.

(01-08-2017 09:58 AM)bossman68 Wrote:  

(01-08-2017 08:40 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  Hi PJ,

Congratulations on your new gig. While many Bronco fans are disappointed by your decision to leave, most understand that is the American way to strive, to achieve, to go after your goals and dreams, and to earn as much money as you can while you can.

On the other hand, it appears to me that you have lost your way. I am specifically referring to your poaching of Western recruits. I am at a loss to understand how you can preach Family, hard work, row the boat, ethics, honesty, integrity, loyalty, and tell all those many little cute stories and metaphors that you constantly pontificate, then at your first opportunity, steal the recruits of a wounded university, that you wounded, that gave you your big break, that you claim to love.

If you were really elite, as you claim to be, you would've put on your big boy pants and gone after commits from Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin and Penn State. Instead of putting on your big boy pants, you put on your diapers and poached commits of the school that give you every break in the world, and that you turned around and blindsided. How is that elite?

Some might say, well it's common practice to poach recruits at the last minute. Maybe so, maybe not. But imagine the example of eliteness and integrity that you could have established had you refused to go after Western's commits and encouraged them to honor their commitment. Then, all the sloganeering, sad deep personal stories, and pontificating might have meant something, now it just comes across as shallow, self-serving, vacuous word salad manipulation.

In the end, when one looks in the mirror in the morning, one hopes to see a person of ethics, honesty, integrity, substance, consistency, positive values and virtues. If one doesn't see that, than then no matter how many football games they win, they are not elite, no matter what they tell themselves or tell others.

In the end, I wish you good luck. Not on the field, but on your journey to close the gap between what you preach and what you do.

Again, no one is angry because you left, rather people are angry because you sneakily poached your former employer's commits, the employer who took a chance on an unknown, unaccomplished coach and provided him with unprecedented resources in a time of tight budgets, and paid him an excessive salary.

In the end, if you are indeed rowing the boat at this point, you are only rowing it in circles in a shallow pond.

These kids and their parents have a special bond with PJ, PJ can't make kids and the parents switch their commitments. For instance if Tanner Morgans parents wanted him to remain commited to the Broncos he would be a Bronco, if he decommited and PJ told him that there wasn't room for him at Minnesota he would be at Toledo or Bowling Green.

WMU may be a recipient of recruits when the new coach is announced he may have some kids follow him, Especially if he was personally involved in recruiting them.Ofcourse we will complain that they are not worthy D1 recruits for our program much like the Goophers are doing now.There are tweets out there with a distainful tone toward PJs MAC level recruits. I guess they are beneath their fine program. They can send them back anytime now!!!!!!

This really cripples a mid-major program more than it would, say Michigan. Big names with experience are not lined up to be the next Western coach. P5 schools can bring in a "name" to hold recruits.

(01-08-2017 08:40 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  Hi PJ,

Congratulations on your new gig. While many Bronco fans are disappointed by your decision to leave, most understand that is the American way to strive, to achieve, to go after your goals and dreams, and to earn as much money as you can while you can.

On the other hand, it appears to me that you have lost your way. I am specifically referring to your poaching of Western recruits. I am at a loss to understand how you can preach Family, hard work, row the boat, ethics, honesty, integrity, loyalty, and tell all those many little cute stories and metaphors that you constantly pontificate, then at your first opportunity, steal the recruits of a wounded university, that you wounded, that gave you your big break, that you claim to love.

If you were really elite, as you claim to be, you would've put on your big boy pants and gone after commits from Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin and Penn State. Instead of putting on your big boy pants, you put on your diapers and poached commits of the school that give you every break in the world, and that you turned around and blindsided. How is that elite?

Some might say, well it's common practice to poach recruits at the last minute. Maybe so, maybe not. But imagine the example of eliteness and integrity that you could have established had you refused to go after Western's commits and encouraged them to honor their commitment. Then, all the sloganeering, sad deep personal stories, and pontificating might have meant something, now it just comes across as shallow, self-serving, vacuous word salad manipulation.

In the end, when one looks in the mirror in the morning, one hopes to see a person of ethics, honesty, integrity, substance, consistency, positive values and virtues. If one doesn't see that, than then no matter how many football games they win, they are not elite, no matter what they tell themselves or tell others.

In the end, I wish you good luck. Not on the field, but on your journey to close the gap between what you preach and what you do.

Again, no one is angry because you left, rather people are angry because you sneakily poached your former employer's commits, the employer who took a chance on an unknown, unaccomplished coach and provided him with unprecedented resources in a time of tight budgets, and paid him an excessive salary.

In the end, if you are indeed rowing the boat at this point, you are only rowing it in circles in a shallow pond.

Exceptionally well written. Thank You

Cliff Notes version: Elite people don't poach. They respect, honor and appreciate.

After having time to really absorb this entire situation... I have a bit of a different take on PJ...

PJ is great when he's "YOUR" coach....when you are blinded by the potential successes and his fast talking spirit... BUT... when he's NOT your coach... his true colors come into light. He's a fast talking snake oil salesman... he's all about PJ... I hate to admit this but some of the early detractors were spot on... However, as ive said before... I wouldn't trade these last 4 years in for anything...

PJ taking recruits is what he needs to do to salvage a poor recruiting class at Minn so late in the game. He's spinning his hype machine to flip these kids regardless of how he feels about WMU... He needs to make sure that he keeps moving forward... that his machine of PJ keeps running full blast...

We all hoped he was a little more humble and honest than he has turned out to be... that might be what hurts the most in all of this... that we all ate it up hook line and sinker... and now that he's gone we all feel betrayed by his actions. His actions are in line with any other successful cut throat coach/recruiter out there... Worked well when it was in our favor... so we can't be too upset that he's using the same tactics in Minnesota's favor...

I just hope we pull a huge hire in the next week.. and in a year or two when PJ is entertaining some offers for other schools... and he's got a huge class rolling... we can't sneak in and muddy the waters with those kids and use some PJ tactics against him...

GO BRONCOS!

(01-08-2017 11:41 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  After having time to really absorb this entire situation... I have a bit of a different take on PJ...

PJ is great when he's "YOUR" coach....when you are blinded by the potential successes and his fast talking spirit... BUT... when he's NOT your coach... his true colors come into light. He's a fast talking snake oil salesman... he's all about PJ... I hate to admit this but some of the early detractors were spot on... However, as ive said before... I wouldn't trade these last 4 years in for anything...

PJ taking recruits is what he needs to do to salvage a poor recruiting class at Minn so late in the game. He's spinning his hype machine to flip these kids regardless of how he feels about WMU... He needs to make sure that he keeps moving forward... that his machine of PJ keeps running full blast...

We all hoped he was a little more humble and honest than he has turned out to be... that might be what hurts the most in all of this... that we all ate it up hook line and sinker... and now that he's gone we all feel betrayed by his actions. His actions are in line with any other successful cut throat coach/recruiter out there... Worked well when it was in our favor... so we can't be too upset that he's using the same tactics in Minnesota's favor...

I just hope we pull a huge hire in the next week.. and in a year or two when PJ is entertaining some offers for other schools... and he's got a huge class rolling... we can't sneak in and muddy the waters with those kids and use some PJ tactics against him...

GO BRONCOS!

I see it a bit differently: ethics are transcendent.

He is basically getting recruits on WMU dollars spent. We should not have been surpirised by his actions based on the fact he would not sign a contract.

You need to let it go. PJ Fleck is a great Head Coach, but now he's someone else's great head coach. Some things to consider:

PJ promised to make us an elite program-he's put us on a trajectory to accomplish much of that.

PJ promised to recruit top recruits-for 4 years he had us best in MAC and way up on the class talent scales.

He promised to market the program to the local community and students, he was great at that.

He promised to bring excitement back to WMU football. He accomplished that.

We have the TOP GPA in MAC football, along with being the top program on the field.

We have improved facilities, largely due to his marketing of the program to donors.

Without PJ Fleck's tenure are we currently the draw for top coaches like Houston, Miles and others? Hardly.

When was the last time our program appeared on ESPN Gameday prior to Fleck? Oh, that's right-NEVER.

I'm not happy about recruits that verballed us are now following PJ to Minn, but that's Div 1A college football. Hopefully we'll gain a few top recruits that way with the new Staff.

So-it's time to quit whining that Fleck took the ziggy and moved up to a Big 10 school. He moved the bar WAY up for WMU football while he was here. It's time for US to take the next step and bring in somebody who will continue that development. This is the big time in college athletics folks, if you can't abide coaches moving up and on from WMU you may as well go back to the old days where we settled for 8-4 records and an invite to some lesser bowl game on December 20th. Building and being a top athletic program is a dynamic process, not a static process-continual change is inevitable. Get used to it.

(01-08-2017 12:06 PM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(01-08-2017 11:41 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  After having time to really absorb this entire situation... I have a bit of a different take on PJ...

PJ is great when he's "YOUR" coach....when you are blinded by the potential successes and his fast talking spirit... BUT... when he's NOT your coach... his true colors come into light. He's a fast talking snake oil salesman... he's all about PJ... I hate to admit this but some of the early detractors were spot on... However, as ive said before... I wouldn't trade these last 4 years in for anything...

PJ taking recruits is what he needs to do to salvage a poor recruiting class at Minn so late in the game. He's spinning his hype machine to flip these kids regardless of how he feels about WMU... He needs to make sure that he keeps moving forward... that his machine of PJ keeps running full blast...

We all hoped he was a little more humble and honest than he has turned out to be... that might be what hurts the most in all of this... that we all ate it up hook line and sinker... and now that he's gone we all feel betrayed by his actions. His actions are in line with any other successful cut throat coach/recruiter out there... Worked well when it was in our favor... so we can't be too upset that he's using the same tactics in Minnesota's favor...

I just hope we pull a huge hire in the next week.. and in a year or two when PJ is entertaining some offers for other schools... and he's got a huge class rolling... we can't sneak in and muddy the waters with those kids and use some PJ tactics against him...

GO BRONCOS!

I see it a bit differently: ethics are transcendent.

If you have them.

Two different viewpoints, each expressed well.

While I'm disappointed that he left, we all understood that success brings offers from places that can offer more and we knew that he would leave at some point. Some of us thought that we had dodged that particular bullet this year. Not so and it is the timing that stings so much. In the past, we would watch this from afar at other schools. We hadn't experienced having a successful coach being hired out from under us. I agree with Kathy B that it is a good problem to have because it does reflect the success on the field. It hurts, it kind of sucks but that is the way college football is structured.

Even the poaching of recruits is common. We just haven't seen or experienced this in our own backyard. Just reading the tweets of our commits in this class tells me that not all kids are the same, but for many if not most, PJ's personality, energy, commitment and vision were the deciding factors - they wanted to play for that man. Those kids did not commit so much to a school but to the coach. A few others have stated that they are still committed to WMU.

I wish PJ the best and thank him for what he did while at Western Michigan. He made a lot of promises when hired, many of which sounded like pie-in-the-sky dreaming. Yet many of them he was able to deliver on, in a way that shocked Bronco Nation out of its' slumber. Yes, it IS possible to become a national brand and name which people recognize.

We all hope that KB and the search group can find the right person for our program to continue on its' upward trajectory. We can't fail to maintain the momentum and fall back into mediocrity. This hire is critical and everybody knows it.

Easier to say than to do. Onward, Bronco Nation!!

Kathy has stated several times that to play at an elite level you not only need good coaches, you need a great PROCESS. You need a University President committed to excellence on the field of play (President Dunn is) and you need an Athletic Administration which is nimble and can handle continual challenges and change.

The timing of Fleck's departure is challenging, but we all knew he'd leave in 4-5 years if he was successful. So now our AD needs to demonstrate how nimble she is and capable of handling the challenge of replacing a great HC. There are prospects out there that can make us forget about Fleck in a few days once they're hired, so let's quit whining about Fleck leaving and get aboard the process of replacing him.

We not only need elite coaches and players, we need elite Administration and fans. Let's start responding to this challenge in an elite way-by hiring someone to take us to the next level.

Pj did this, PJ did that...we should just be thankful...blah...blah...blah. He turned out to be self serving snake. He did good (maybe great) things but he was paid handsomely (or should i say 'elitely'). Double what most MAC coaches make. Our expectations should be 'elite'. He didn't do anything for free. And actively poaching our recruits tarnishes what he did here. We will feel it in a year or two. Top FCS recruits following whoever we hire won't fill the gap.

My prediction-you can take it for what it's worth-is that IF we hire another good HC nobody will remember in a year or two the recruits that verballed to us but followed PJ to Minnesota. And I think that the impact will be far less than many folks think.

Mike Houston looked awful good to me yesterday.

(01-08-2017 01:11 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  My prediction-you can take it for what it's worth-is that IF we hire another good HC nobody will remember in a year or two the recruits that verballed to us but followed PJ to Minnesota. And I think that the impact will be far less than many folks think.

Mike Houston looked awful good to me yesterday.

Same can be said about seeing those recruits flipping actually playing for Minn once PJ has a few years to recruit the BIG10 level talent that will have these flips likely transferring for playing time that PJ is promising them right now...

Get over it, 88. He did what all the big time college coaches do when they move up. Why you expected him to do anything differently is beyond me. You should know that.

I get that some of us are angry and butthurt. This is the 'game' that is played in big time college football. We may not like it but it is what it is. It is time to move on. Onward and upwards.

Like any successful, upwardly mobile coach, it was up to PJ and only him to look out for himself and his family. Nobody else. So, pillory him for that if you wish but it is not just him. It is what happens with successful coaches when they move up in the world.

(01-08-2017 01:11 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  Mike Houston looked awful good to me yesterday.

Have to agree. He came into a successful program and told them a number of things would be changed - and the fans freaked out. Not so any more.

(01-08-2017 12:10 PM)hammerP Wrote:  He is basically getting recruits on WMU dollars spent. We should not have been surpirised by his actions based on the fact he would not sign a contract.

Some insightful poster on this board said he was being greedy last week, and got shot down pretty good.

(01-08-2017 12:12 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  You need to let it go. PJ Fleck is a great Head Coach, but now he's someone else's great head coach. Some things to consider:

PJ promised to make us an elite program-he's put us on a trajectory to accomplish much of that.

PJ promised to recruit top recruits-for 4 years he had us best in MAC and way up on the class talent scales.

He promised to market the program to the local community and students, he was great at that.

He promised to bring excitement back to WMU football. He accomplished that.

We have the TOP GPA in MAC football, along with being the top program on the field.

We have improved facilities, largely due to his marketing of the program to donors.

Without PJ Fleck's tenure are we currently the draw for top coaches like Houston, Miles and others? Hardly.

When was the last time our program appeared on ESPN Gameday prior to Fleck? Oh, that's right-NEVER.

I'm not happy about recruits that verballed us are now following PJ to Minn, but that's Div 1A college football. Hopefully we'll gain a few top recruits that way with the new Staff.

So-it's time to quit whining that Fleck took the ziggy and moved up to a Big 10 school. He moved the bar WAY up for WMU football while he was here. It's time for US to take the next step and bring in somebody who will continue that development. This is the big time in college athletics folks, if you can't abide coaches moving up and on from WMU you may as well go back to the old days where we settled for 8-4 records and an invite to some lesser bowl game on December 20th. Building and being a top athletic program is a dynamic process, not a static process-continual change is inevitable. Get used to it.

I'll have to agree with all of the above. He left the program in MUCH better shape than he inherited it. NEVER have we seen this level of success, on the field and off. WMU football is actually on the nations radar. As for taking or poaching recruits, he has built relationships with some of these kids and their families for a year or longer. They would've considered going to Minn anyways or to their second option. Clearly they did not commit solely to this university. Why would Fleck leave all those hours on the road to recruit and leave those kids to go to other schools. If you weren't paying attention Gophers football is in a bit of turmoil. There will be kids kicked off the team and problems getting talent to come into that mess. Good luck stealing kids from the best of the B1G less than a month from NSD in the best of circumstances. This is the business of college football. For all the butt hurt "fans" that are pissed that he even left, what did you expect? A 36 yr old coach at the top of his game, being talked about for every P5 opening to stay until he's 70 in Kalamazoo? Minnesota is not his final destination, he's charismatic and talented to lead a bigger team. The MAC is what it is, coaches come for a convenient spot to retire or to move up to the P5.