You might as well say NYC. Sure, Rutgers has a presence there and is relatively close by but they're not NYC's college football team by any means.

(01-03-2017 11:00 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  With the Chargers likely leaving San Diego for LA, San Diego would be the largest metro area without the NFL and leaving San Diego St in the biggest market with no NFL competition. List by population size (total metro area) and FBS school in the city.

-San Diego: San Diego St University (MWC) 3.3 mil
-Orlando: University of Central Florida (AAC) 2.3 mil
-San Antonio: UTSA (CUSA) 2.3 mil
- Las Vegas: UNLV (MWC) 2.1 mil
-Columbus: Ohio St (Big Ten) 2 mil
-Austin: Texas (Big 12) 2 mil
-Norfolk: Old Dominion (CUSA) 1.6 mil
-Memphis: University of Memphis (AAC) 1.3 mil
-Louisville: University of Louisville (ACC) 1.2 mil
-Salt Lake City: Utah (PAC) 1.2 mil
-Tucson: Arizona (PAC) 1 mil
-Honolulu: University of Hawaii (MWC) 998,000
-Tulsa: Tulsa (AAC) 981,00
-Fresno: Fresno St (MWC) 974,000
-Albuquerque: University of New Mexico (MWC) 907,00
-Greenville: South Carolina (SEC)


*Austin is the 11th biggest city in the US. El Paso is the 20th. That's why I'm using metro area as my metric.

Cheers!

Now look at which cities rank highest in watching it and there is your answer.

(01-03-2017 11:00 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  With the Chargers likely leaving San Diego for LA, San Diego would be the largest metro area without the NFL and leaving San Diego St in the biggest market with no NFL competition. List by population size (total metro area) and FBS school in the city.

-San Diego: San Diego St University (MWC) 3.3 mil
-Orlando: University of Central Florida (AAC) 2.3 mil
-San Antonio: UTSA (CUSA) 2.3 mil
- Las Vegas: UNLV (MWC) 2.1 mil
-Columbus: Ohio St (Big Ten) 2 mil
-Austin: Texas (Big 12) 2 mil
-Norfolk: Old Dominion (CUSA) 1.6 mil
-Memphis: University of Memphis (AAC) 1.3 mil
-Louisville: University of Louisville (ACC) 1.2 mil
-Salt Lake City: Utah (PAC) 1.2 mil
-Tucson: Arizona (PAC) 1 mil
-Honolulu: University of Hawaii (MWC) 998,000
-Tulsa: Tulsa (AAC) 981,00
-Fresno: Fresno St (MWC) 974,000
-Albuquerque: University of New Mexico (MWC) 907,00
-Greenville: South Carolina (SEC)


*Austin is the 11th biggest city in the US. El Paso is the 20th. That's why I'm using metro area as my metric.

Cheers!

You forgot Hartford. 1.5 mil (AAC)

(01-03-2017 11:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 11:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 11:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 11:25 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 11:08 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Forgot little old Columbus, Ohio.

What about Lansing, MI?

What about Lansing Sir?

Cheers!

Lansing is over a half million.

Columbia, SC has 900,000.
Knoxville, TN has 850,000.
Baton Rouge, LA has 830,000.

Bigger than those dinky western towns.

Columbia 810,000. I lived there....

Cheers!

Raleigh North Carolina is North of 1 million metro.

The local MSA includes Durham and Chapel Hill and has about 2 million people (Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, 1,998,808.)

That probably makes it the largest Metro with THREE FBS schools (Duke, NC State, UNC) and no NFL competition.

Boise metro is close to 700,000 and growing bigger. They are the third largest metro in the northwest behind Portland and Seattle. They should be considered a major important city.

(01-03-2017 11:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cities that need FBS as they have no immediate football outlet:

Sacramento
Portland
Spokane
St Louis
Little Rock
Des Moines - Ames is close
Grand Rapids
Albany
Long Island
Richmond
Chattanooga
Montgomery
Shreveport
Wichita
Peoria
Milwaukee
Providence
Long Island
Fort Myers
Omaha

There is absolutely 0% interest in FBS CFB on Long Island. Trust me, it's a pro sports area. College athletics is on scarce interest.

(01-04-2017 01:46 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  You might as well say NYC. Sure, Rutgers has a presence there and is relatively close by but they're not NYC's college football team by any means.

With so many transients, interest in college athletics is primarily for the school you attended. Ton of Michigan, Texas, ND fans here.

(01-04-2017 09:42 AM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 11:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cities that need FBS as they have no immediate football outlet:

Sacramento
Portland
Spokane
St Louis
Little Rock
Des Moines - Ames is close
Grand Rapids
Albany
Long Island
Richmond
Chattanooga
Montgomery
Shreveport
Wichita
Peoria
Milwaukee
Providence
Long Island
Fort Myers
Omaha

There is absolutely 0% interest in FBS CFB on Long Island. Trust me, it's a pro sports area. College athletics is on scarce interest.

Are we sure that they love their pro football teams which both play in New Jersey. NYC really does not have a team for themselves. I could see Stony Brook get a called up. Stony Brook, Fordham or LIU-Post are in the NYC metro.

Sorry no link on this (if someone else wanted to take the time to find it, I would not be offended), but I read an article somewhere that said by 2050 could be about the size of Los Angeles. I always thought a forward looking professional team could move there and then by 2050 be in one of the most major markets in the country.

Again, sorry, no link. I searched several places.

(01-04-2017 07:16 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  You forgot Hartford. 1.5 mil (AAC)

You can't have it both ways. You guys always want to claim that Metro NYC is part of your market. Therefore The Giants and Jets...

(01-03-2017 11:50 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Thank you. I keep adding more and more. My point was to highlight that San Diego would be the biggest metro with no NFL team that has FBS football and show other big places like Orlando and SA etc. apparently, I pissed you off.
Cheers!

You know an area that is also underserved, that could probably allow an FBS school to thrive, is the Inland Empire (Riverside)? It is its won own metropolitan area, over 4 million people, and is the largest by far with no pro sports team of its own. But since UC Riverside shuttered its program about 40 years ago, I am guessing not...

(01-03-2017 11:00 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  With the Chargers likely leaving San Diego for LA, San Diego would be the largest metro area without the NFL and leaving San Diego St in the biggest market with no NFL competition. List by population size (total metro area) and FBS school in the city.

-San Diego: San Diego St University (MWC) 3.3 mil
-Orlando: University of Central Florida (AAC) 2.3 mil
-San Antonio: UTSA (CUSA) 2.3 mil
- Las Vegas: UNLV (MWC) 2.1 mil
-Columbus: Ohio St (Big Ten) 2 mil
-Austin: Texas (Big 12) 2 mil
-Norfolk: Old Dominion (CUSA) 1.6 mil
-Memphis: University of Memphis (AAC) 1.3 mil
-Louisville: University of Louisville (ACC) 1.2 mil
-Salt Lake City: Utah (PAC) 1.2 mil
-Tucson: Arizona (PAC) 1 mil
-Honolulu: University of Hawaii (MWC) 998,000
-Tulsa: Tulsa (AAC) 981,00
-Fresno: Fresno St (MWC) 974,000
-Albuquerque: University of New Mexico (MWC) 907,00
-Greenville: South Carolina (SEC)


*Austin is the 11th biggest city in the US. El Paso is the 20th. That's why I'm using metro area as my metric.

Cheers!

Que? Last time I checked South Carolina was in Columbia, not Greenville. And GSP is Clemson territory by a wide margin.

(01-03-2017 11:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 11:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 11:25 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 11:08 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Forgot little old Columbus, Ohio.

What about Lansing, MI?

What about Lansing Sir?

Cheers!

Lansing is over a half million.

Columbia, SC has 900,000.
Knoxville, TN has 850,000.
Baton Rouge, LA has 830,000.

Bigger than those dinky western towns.

Columbia 810,000. I lived there....

Cheers!

It's probably closer to 900k today than it is 810k. Lexington County is one of the fastest growing counties in the southeast.

(01-03-2017 11:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cities that need FBS as they have no immediate football outlet:

Sacramento - Cal, Stanford and the Bay Area pro sports teams effectively cover this market
Portland - Oregon and Oregon State
Spokane - Washington and Washington State
St Louis - Mizzou and Illinois
Little Rock - Arkansas
Des Moines - Ames is close - Iowa and Iowa State
Grand Rapids - Michigan and Michigan State
Albany - Tepid college sports interest and NYC, Boston and Buffalo pro teams are close
Long Island - Tepid college sports interest and actually located in the NYC market
Richmond - UVA and Virginia Tech
Chattanooga - Tennessee
Montgomery - Alabama and Auburn
Shreveport - LSU
Wichita - Kansas and Kansas State
Peoria - Illinois
Milwaukee - Wisconsin plus it's as much of a Packers market as Green Bay itself
Providence - As much of a Boston pro sports market as Boston itself plus proximity to BC to the extent anyone wants to watch college sports
Fort Myers - Actually consistently one of the best college football TV markets in the country due to concentration of Florida, FSU and Miami fans
Omaha - Absolute 100% Nebraska territory

You're ignoring that P5 schools (almost all flagships and flagship equivalents) effectively cover virtually all of those markets (and in the case of Milwaukee, it's as much of a Packers town as Pittsburgh is a Steelers town). This is the equivalent of stating that Birmingham is a great college football market because UAB is located directly within its metro area as opposed to the reality that it's driven by Alabama and Auburn fans. Being located directly in a metro market isn't anywhere near as important as an overall market "presence" or "connection". See all of my edits in italics.

(01-04-2017 01:50 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 07:16 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  You forgot Hartford. 1.5 mil (AAC)

You can't have it both ways. You guys always want to claim that Metro NYC is part of your market. Therefore The Giants and Jets...

(01-03-2017 11:50 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Thank you. I keep adding more and more. My point was to highlight that San Diego would be the biggest metro with no NFL team that has FBS football and show other big places like Orlando and SA etc. apparently, I pissed you off.
Cheers!

You know an area that is also underserved, that could probably allow an FBS school to thrive, is the Inland Empire (Riverside)? It is its won own metropolitan area, over 4 million people, and is the largest by far with no pro sports team of its own. But since UC Riverside shuttered its program about 40 years ago, I am guessing not...

But you guys always tell us nobody in NY cares about UConn. There's the one guy on here who swears when he lived in NY he didn't think Connecticut had a state school.

(01-04-2017 09:45 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Are we sure that they love their pro football teams which both play in New Jersey. NYC really does not have a team for themselves. I could see Stony Brook get a called up. Stony Brook, Fordham or LIU-Post are in the NYC metro.

You've said some amazing statements over the years, but this one is near the top. With this logic, Stony Brook could be NYC's team, but not the Giants or Jets because they play in New Jersey. This is actually making my brain hurt.

(01-04-2017 09:45 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 09:42 AM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 11:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cities that need FBS as they have no immediate football outlet:

Sacramento
Portland
Spokane
St Louis
Little Rock
Des Moines - Ames is close
Grand Rapids
Albany
Long Island
Richmond
Chattanooga
Montgomery
Shreveport
Wichita
Peoria
Milwaukee
Providence
Long Island
Fort Myers
Omaha

There is absolutely 0% interest in FBS CFB on Long Island. Trust me, it's a pro sports area. College athletics is on scarce interest.

Are we sure that they love their pro football teams which both play in New Jersey. NYC really does not have a team for themselves. I could see Stony Brook get a called up. Stony Brook, Fordham or LIU-Post are in the NYC metro.

They do love their NFL teams even though they play in the suburbs. Just like people in Boston like the Pats, people in Dallas like the Cowboys and people in San Francisco like the 49ers.

(01-04-2017 02:43 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 11:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cities that need FBS as they have no immediate football outlet:

Sacramento - Cal, Stanford and the Bay Area pro sports teams effectively cover this market
Portland - Oregon and Oregon State
Spokane - Washington and Washington State
St Louis - Mizzou and Illinois
Little Rock - Arkansas
Des Moines - Ames is close - Iowa and Iowa State
Grand Rapids - Michigan and Michigan State
Albany - Tepid college sports interest and NYC, Boston and Buffalo pro teams are close
Long Island - Tepid college sports interest and actually located in the NYC market
Richmond - UVA and Virginia Tech
Chattanooga - Tennessee
Montgomery - Alabama and Auburn
Shreveport - LSU
Wichita - Kansas and Kansas State
Peoria - Illinois
Milwaukee - Wisconsin plus it's as much of a Packers market as Green Bay itself
Providence - As much of a Boston pro sports market as Boston itself plus proximity to BC to the extent anyone wants to watch college sports
Fort Myers - Actually consistently one of the best college football TV markets in the country due to concentration of Florida, FSU and Miami fans
Omaha - Absolute 100% Nebraska territory

You're ignoring that P5 schools (almost all flagships and flagship equivalents) effectively cover virtually all of those markets (and in the case of Milwaukee, it's as much of a Packers town as Pittsburgh is a Steelers town). This is the equivalent of stating that Birmingham is a great college football market because UAB is located directly within its metro area as opposed to the reality that it's driven by Alabama and Auburn fans. Being located directly in a metro market isn't anywhere near as important as an overall market "presence" or "connection". See all of my edits in italics.

Agreed, with all except Albany. Albany is 2 1/2 hours from NYC and 3 hours from Boston. It's over 5 hours to Buffalo.

On the West Coast, 2 hours' drive is right next door. But on the East Coast, that's an eternity and nearly always goes through 2-3 distinct cultural regions.

(01-04-2017 02:43 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 11:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cities that need FBS as they have no immediate football outlet:

Sacramento - Cal, Stanford and the Bay Area pro sports teams effectively cover this market
Portland - Oregon and Oregon State
Spokane - Washington and Washington State
St Louis - Mizzou and Illinois
Little Rock - Arkansas
Des Moines - Ames is close - Iowa and Iowa State
Grand Rapids - Michigan and Michigan State
Albany - Tepid college sports interest and NYC, Boston and Buffalo pro teams are close
Long Island - Tepid college sports interest and actually located in the NYC market
Richmond - UVA and Virginia Tech
Chattanooga - Tennessee
Montgomery - Alabama and Auburn
Shreveport - LSU
Wichita - Kansas and Kansas State
Peoria - Illinois
Milwaukee - Wisconsin plus it's as much of a Packers market as Green Bay itself
Providence - As much of a Boston pro sports market as Boston itself plus proximity to BC to the extent anyone wants to watch college sports
Fort Myers - Actually consistently one of the best college football TV markets in the country due to concentration of Florida, FSU and Miami fans
Omaha - Absolute 100% Nebraska territory

You're ignoring that P5 schools (almost all flagships and flagship equivalents) effectively cover virtually all of those markets (and in the case of Milwaukee, it's as much of a Packers town as Pittsburgh is a Steelers town). This is the equivalent of stating that Birmingham is a great college football market because UAB is located directly within its metro area as opposed to the reality that it's driven by Alabama and Auburn fans. Being located directly in a metro market isn't anywhere near as important as an overall market "presence" or "connection". See all of my edits in italics.

Not disagreeing that P5 teams already have a presence there, but you seem to be arguing that UCF, USF, and UTSA starting football teams was a mistake.

(01-04-2017 03:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Not disagreeing that P5 teams already have a presence there, but you seem to be arguing that UCF, USF, and UTSA starting football teams was a mistake.

Those weren't necessarily mistakes, but they're also cases of much larger and faster growing markets located in arguably the two best football recruiting states in the country. This is in contrast to, say, Des Moines, where Iowa and Iowa State already largely need to recruit out-of-state players and those two schools already take up 100% college sports mindshare in that market. Even Milwaukee, with a larger existing market, doesn't have much population growth and is saddled with a weaker high school football talent pool. None of the markets that you've listed have the combo of an existing large market plus growth plus a huge local football talent pool that San Antonio, Tampa and Orlando all have (and even with those advantages, they're all still far behind in market mindshare compared to their in-state P5 flagships and flagship equivalents like Texas, Texas A&M, Florida, FSU, etc.).

(01-04-2017 01:50 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 07:16 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  You forgot Hartford. 1.5 mil (AAC)

You can't have it both ways. You guys always want to claim that Metro NYC is part of your market. Therefore The Giants and Jets...

(01-03-2017 11:50 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Thank you. I keep adding more and more. My point was to highlight that San Diego would be the biggest metro with no NFL team that has FBS football and show other big places like Orlando and SA etc. apparently, I pissed you off.
Cheers!

You know an area that is also underserved, that could probably allow an FBS school to thrive, is the Inland Empire (Riverside)? It is its won own metropolitan area, over 4 million people, and is the largest by far with no pro sports team of its own. But since UC Riverside shuttered its program about 40 years ago, I am guessing not...

As someone with friends and family that graduated from UC Riverside I would love for them to carry that IE banner in the FBS. Hell, I'd probably go to at least one game every season.

But the Inland Empire is still largely a gigantic pool of commuters into LA and Orange counties. It identifies as part of the LA metro and is infested with USC fans. UCLA is trying to get in on the IE action by locating its training camp in Cal State San Bernardino each summer. They'll need better results than this year for the effort to be worthwhile.

Given the well-documented tough spot the Pac-12 finds itself in regarding eastward expansion I'd almost rather see the conference make a long-term effort to bring in four more UC campuses and try to unlock and/or create fan intensity in CA that mirrors that of the midwest and southeast. We certainly have the population for it. But were we to go this route there are already four other UC campuses with more prestige than UCR; UC San Diego, UC Davis, UC Santa Barbara and UC Irvine are all ranked higher. But even UCR ranks higher still than four of the Pac's current members: Wazzu, Oregon State, and both Arizona schools. Perhaps therein lies the solution. We should trade in the * State schools for more UC campuses.