Ok. Let's make the West Bank Israel, Owl. That's fair, Now when do the natives begin to partake in a fair and equitable election process?

One person one vote. All people are created equal under God. Universal rights. Sounds fair to me.


See boys there is the conundrum and the ultimate sticky wicky. Why do some many on the right hate freedom for the Palestinians? Why would you hate democracy? Maybe Israel could become the shining example in the Middle East and the model for others.

(12-29-2016 11:00 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Ok. Let's make the West Bank Israel, Owl. That's fair, Now when do the natives begin to partake in a fair and equitable election process?

One person one vote. All people are created equal under God. Universal rights. Sounds fair to me.


See boys there is the conundrum and the ultimate sticky wicky. Why do some many on the right hate freedom for the Palestinians? Why would you hate democracy? Maybe Israel could become the shining example in the Middle East and the model for others.

Because reality is that Muslim majorities in democracy end up destroying freedom and anyone who is not Muslim. Additionally, Palestinians have repeatedly used freedoms such as the freedom of movement to engage in terror and murder civilians. If you want a 2nd holocaust, give Palestinians an equal vote.

So your answer is Apartheid.


Wrong.

(12-29-2016 01:21 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  So your answer is Apartheid.


Wrong.

My answer is first it Is none of our (the US) business and we shouldn't judge as we have not walked a mile in their shoe.

If I had a magic wand. I would have Arab states take the Palestinians in as refugees. I personally don't think any of the proposed solutions will lead to peace. There is never peace with Islam, only submission or death. Or respond as our ancestors did, meet force with force.

(12-29-2016 01:15 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 11:00 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Ok. Let's make the West Bank Israel, Owl. That's fair, Now when do the natives begin to partake in a fair and equitable election process?

One person one vote. All people are created equal under God. Universal rights. Sounds fair to me.


See boys there is the conundrum and the ultimate sticky wicky. Why do some many on the right hate freedom for the Palestinians? Why would you hate democracy? Maybe Israel could become the shining example in the Middle East and the model for others.

Because reality is that Muslim majorities in democracy end up destroying freedom and anyone who is not Muslim. Additionally, Palestinians have repeatedly used freedoms such as the freedom of movement to engage in terror and murder civilians. If you want a 2nd holocaust, give Palestinians an equal vote.

After all these years of posts by Mach about Israel I'm starting to think that's exactly what he wants.

(12-29-2016 01:45 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I would have Arab states take the Palestinians in as refugees.

The inconvenient truth is that the rest of the Muslim world detests the Palestinians. They are looked at as the ni**ers of the Muslim world and no other Muslim country wants them to contaminate their lands.

A Saudi wouldn't help up a fallen Palestinian with his left hand.

The Muslim world is also content to let the Palestinians be their surrogates in Islam's existential war with Judaism.

This is what irks me. If there is any population of people that should know how the Palestinians are or were treated SHOULD be the ISRAELIS!!! Have some freaking compassion! Your culture has lived it! You have been ethnically cleansed yourself. Why would you elect a leader like Netanyahu? Why would you continue to build settlements? Why would you back yourself into a corner where your only friends are the American right? A group of people universally detested too btw. You guys don't like the UN because it continually embarrasses you and your shenanigans. So no one is anti anything. We are just pro universal human rights. Feeling pretty comfortable standing on that rock. Start with Universal Human Rights. No second class citizenship for anybody in an area. One man one vote. No ethnic cleansing. It's actually amazing anyone could be on the other side of it, but lo and behold you guys never surprise.

You're seriously equating living as a Jew in Nazi Germany with being a Palestinian in the Middle Eastern nation widely regarded as having the most civil freedoms in the region? And last time I checked, Jews of the era weren't launching rockets and using human shields against the rest of the nation...

(12-29-2016 01:21 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  So your answer is Apartheid.


Wrong.

Mach, quick question-

Are Muslims living in Israel more free or less free than the vast majority of Muslims living in Muslim countries?

That's your definition of Apartheid?

(12-29-2016 01:45 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 01:21 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  So your answer is Apartheid.


Wrong.

My answer is first it Is none of our (the US) business and we shouldn't judge as we have not walked a mile in their shoe.

If I had a magic wand. I would have Arab states take the Palestinians in as refugees. I personally don't think any of the proposed solutions will lead to peace. There is never peace with Islam, only submission or death. Or respond as our ancestors did, meet force with force.

Yea, interesting that none of those Arab states b!tching about it all the time, while they fund the terrorists rockets raining down on civilians heads won't take them, but they expect the Israelis to do so... Odd thing, that.

Israel take them???????? They had their houses taken from them!!!! Man that is rich and so biased!

(12-29-2016 07:06 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Israel take them???????? They had their houses taken from them!!!! Man that is rich and so biased!

Yea, in how many of those wars Israel started? Was it the one in '67? Foggy memory.

How about the question ^^^ prior? More or less free, Mach?

Guessing how much the left seems to hate on Israel today ,it must be a throwback to those KKK early days of the development of the Democrat party.

I really, really can't understand the Lefts hatred toward Israel and have so much love for anything Muslim. Jews aren't throwing gays from 5 story buildings or decapitating them. What is it? How can they be so ignorant. Does Satan have them that much in his power? Or is it group think, where a Libturd says certain things about Israel and everyone of them just follow like ducks in a row?

Wow, oh wow.

(12-29-2016 10:12 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Obama's Father was Muslim, Obama's (wink) preacher, Rev. Wright is anti semitic so its only natural why Obama is a hater of Israel.

Plus Obama was reared in childhood as a Muslim. Of course he hates Israel. Plus the bonus is this abstaining of the resolution vote at the UN creates another issue for Trump to step into on January 20.

Thanks for answering the OP and not engaging with Mach's diversion effort that went 9 pages.

(12-29-2016 07:06 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Israel take them???????? They had their houses taken from them!!!! Man that is rich and so biased!

Mach, as I have said numerous times before, wars are fought to accomplish two main objectives, to kill people and take territory. Israel did not start the wars that resulted in these homes being transferred to Israeli control, but as the country that won wars in which it did not start, Israel achieved the proper objective......they killed people and took territory. Don't like it, blame those that started the wars, not Israel.

(12-29-2016 03:20 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This is what irks me. If there is any population of people that should know how the Palestinians are or were treated SHOULD be the ISRAELIS!!! Have some freaking compassion! Your culture has lived it! You have been ethnically cleansed yourself. Why would you elect a leader like Netanyahu? Why would you continue to build settlements? Why would you back yourself into a corner where your only friends are the American right? A group of people universally detested too btw. You guys don't like the UN because it continually embarrasses you and your shenanigans. So no one is anti anything. We are just pro universal human rights. Feeling pretty comfortable standing on that rock. Start with Universal Human Rights. No second class citizenship for anybody in an area. One man one vote. No ethnic cleansing. It's actually amazing anyone could be on the other side of it, but lo and behold you guys never surprise.

Number one, there is no ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by Israel.
Number two, Israel is not targeting civilians. It is doing what it reasonably believes it needs to do in order to minimize the number of its people who get killed.
Number three, there is no way to have a single state when half that state has as its goal the eradication of the other half. And you can give me all the stats you want about how that's only 20% or whatever, but as long as the other 80% are making no effort to stop it, they are complicit. This isn't going to turn into a Kumbaya party any time soon, no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.
Number four, there is no viable two state solution within the current footprint of Israel. There is no way to draw boundaries that give Israel military security and the Palestinians economic viability. Those of you who are two-state advocates, have you ever considered what a truly God awful place a pre-1967 borders Palestinian state would be?
Number five, what has happened here is that the Arab world took their outcasts (Palestinians) and the western world took their outcasts (Jews) and they dumped them into and area that was too small and lacked sufficient resources to support both. That's where the blame lies. Until the people who caused this are willing to put together a better option, there is no way out of a terrible solution.

(12-29-2016 10:25 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I really, really can't understand the Lefts hatred toward Israel and have so much love for anything Muslim. Jews aren't throwing gays from 5 story buildings or decapitating them. What is it? How can they be so ignorant. Does Satan have them that much in his power? Or is it group think, where a Libturd says certain things about Israel and everyone of them just follow like ducks in a row?

Wow, oh wow.

It just boggles the mind.

Muslim culture is the most misogynistic and homophobic on the planet. It would appear that everything America's progressives stand for is denied within the Islamic world. And yet these fools continue down this path of self deceit.

(12-29-2016 10:25 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I really, really can't understand the Lefts hatred toward Israel and have so much love for anything Muslim. Jews aren't throwing gays from 5 story buildings or decapitating them. What is it? How can they be so ignorant. Does Satan have them that much in his power? Or is it group think, where a Libturd says certain things about Israel and everyone of them just follow like ducks in a row?

Wow, oh wow.

I find it amazing how the Christian right will literally excuse anything Israel does because of some bible nonsense.

Israel gets a pass on being bastards because Christians think by enabling Israel they're doing god's work.

The Palestinians are **** bags too and Islam is a scar on humanity. I hate both sides, though clearly Israel is an asset to the world intellectually and given the choice, I'd choose Israel 100/100. Doesn't mean they're faultless though.

(12-30-2016 11:36 AM)Niner National Wrote:  I find it amazing how the Christian right will literally excuse anything Israel does because of some bible nonsense.

Israel gets a pass on being bastards because Christians think by enabling Israel they're doing god's work.

I'm not sure why this post is on here because in 22 pages I don't recall one post that references the bible or any biblical prophecies about Israel. (I may have missed one and for that I apologize in advance and I don't deny that there are some Christians that believe that stuff.)

The arguments in support of Israel that have been expressed in this thread are based upon realpolitik. Nothing more.