(12-20-2016 04:27 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  I refuse to watch a Rock n Roll HOF induction until The Moody Blues are rightfully inducted in.

I don't think I realized they aren't in yet. Interesting.

As far as Tupac goes, he also sampled plenty of rock artists in his music, including Led Zeppelin, Elton John, Joe Cocker, Bruce Hornsby, Michael Jackson, Prince, etc., so if we're going with that type of requirement for a hip-hop artist to get in, he makes the cut.

Heck, Elton John was even a featured artist on one of his songs.

Rock and roll ==\== "rock" music

Rock and roll definitely led to rock's creation. It also heavily influenced virtually every genre of music since the birth of rock and roll, including Tupac's body of work.

YMMV.

FWIW, I care very little about the HoF. It's in Cleveland.

(12-20-2016 04:52 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 04:24 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 04:15 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 02:08 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  LOL. We have this conversation every year. If you feel that strongly about it let's take out every country, blues, dance, metal, grunge, etc group and artist that has been inducted. There hasn't been rock and roll for 40 years.

Black Crowes is 100% rock and roll and to think Tupac is in over them (or hell, just made it in the same year as Yes or Journey despite their being eligible for years) is a joke. And much of what you describe above is rock and roll.

I have no fault with the precursors to what became rock being inducted, as they were the inspiration for what became rock. However, just because country and rockabilly inspired early stages of rock doesn't mean that George Strait should be in the R&R HOF. Same goes for R&B and it's progeny as it pertains to the HOF.

I think one can make a straight faced argument for Run DMC. They certainly mainstreamed the idea of rock and rap coming together and likely served as a template for later acts like Limp Bizkit, Incubus, and Rage.

LL also incorporated some rock crossover in his early stuff and his unplugged episode was much more of a rock performance than rap.

The Beastie Boys essentially sampled Zeppelin throughout Licensed (among many other rock samples) and No Sleep til Brooklyn was a rock song.

Public Enemy has their crossover with Anthrax, but I'm still not sure they have a true "rock and roll" tie in. Same for NWA. Great group, but I don't get the tie in.

Tupac? But there is nothing about his music that even tips a hat to rock (at least that can be said about NWA and P.E.).

But we're not discussing which specific band should get in over another, are we? We are just saying that all genres that contribute to the spirit of rock and roll should be in the running.

I agree that I would not have put 2Pac in over some of the ones you mentioned...But I would still put Rappers in the rock and roll hall of fame.

It's all real to me Dammit! All music!

If it were the "Music Hall of Fame" then sure.

It is the "rock and roll" HOF. Country has a HOF, R&B has one.

I liken a rap artist getting into the R&R HOF the same way sports HOF's induct non-players (like GM's and announcers).

Those guys get in for their "contribution to the sport." Vin Scully never played baseball but but his broadcasting was synonymous with the Dodgers and baseball as a whole.

Sorta like Run DMC. Their collaboration w/ Aerosmith opened up brand new avenues to artists in both rock and rap and made that combination mainstream.

So even though they weren't a "rock" band, their contribution to the genre is significant. I think the Beasties, LL and PE can have arguments made for that.

NWA is much more of a reach and Tupac's in utterly nonexistent.

But do we really care? lol We're just discussing shiat....right? I just happen to be a person who leans towards inclusivity but I can see it both ways.

On a more serious note, some gooftard just called me GT TIPWAL Wilbur down in the PR Forum. lmao.

(12-20-2016 12:08 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Jeebus

He will be (of course in spirit only) sharing the stage with musical contemporaries Journey, ELO, Pearl Jam, Joan Baez, and Yes.


I am really looking forward to the day Michael Jordan is elected to the NHL Hall of Fame.

2Pac was as big of a rock star as Kurt Cobain even if he did hip-hop instead of grunge rock.

How many of these rock stars of your day sound like Chucky Berry or Elvis Presley?

(12-20-2016 01:24 PM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  I've seen more R&R bands in concert than Tupac has ever heard of. I should be in the HOF before him.

How the f--- would you know that? Were you hanging with 2Pac from 1990 until he died in 1996?

(12-20-2016 04:17 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 04:10 PM)3601 Wrote:  "Rock & roll is not an instrument; rock & roll is not even a style of music. Rock & roll is a spirit. … It's been going since the blues, jazz, bebop, soul, R&B, rock & roll, heavy metal, punk rock and, yes, hip-hop. And what connects us all is that spirit. …Rock & roll is not conforming to the people who came before you, but creating your own path in music and in life."

“Respectfully let me know when Jimi Hendrix gets into the Hip Hop Hall Of Fame. Then you’ll have a point.”

Which Hip-Hop hall of fame would that be?

Who gets inducted into the R-N-R hall of fame that got their start after 2000?

(12-20-2016 05:39 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 01:24 PM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  I've seen more R&R bands in concert than Tupac has ever heard of. I should be in the HOF before him.

How the f--- would you know that? Were you hanging with 2Pac from 1990 until he died in 1996?

Common sense.

(12-20-2016 01:30 PM)tiger2000 Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 01:24 PM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  I've seen more R&R bands in concert than Tupac has ever heard of. I should be in the HOF before him.

Bathroom stall trysts with groupies that the roadies turned down doesn't qualify you.

Sure it does. It means I was there. It was worth every minute and that was before you had to worry about catching something that penicillin wouldn't cure.

(12-20-2016 06:35 PM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 05:39 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 01:24 PM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  I've seen more R&R bands in concert than Tupac has ever heard of. I should be in the HOF before him.

How the f--- would you know that? Were you hanging with 2Pac from 1990 until he died in 1996?

Common sense.

How many rock concerts did 2Pac go to?

(12-20-2016 04:17 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 04:10 PM)3601 Wrote:  "Rock & roll is not an instrument; rock & roll is not even a style of music. Rock & roll is a spirit. … It's been going since the blues, jazz, bebop, soul, R&B, rock & roll, heavy metal, punk rock and, yes, hip-hop. And what connects us all is that spirit. …Rock & roll is not conforming to the people who came before you, but creating your own path in music and in life."

“Respectfully let me know when Jimi Hendrix gets into the Hip Hop Hall Of Fame. Then you’ll have a point.”

^^^^^

(12-20-2016 07:56 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 06:35 PM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 05:39 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 01:24 PM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  I've seen more R&R bands in concert than Tupac has ever heard of. I should be in the HOF before him.

How the f--- would you know that? Were you hanging with 2Pac from 1990 until he died in 1996?

Common sense.

How many rock concerts did 2Pac go to?

Not as many as me.

(12-20-2016 05:15 PM)AlonsoWDC Wrote:  Rock and roll ==\== "rock" music

Rock and roll definitely led to rock's creation. It also heavily influenced virtually every genre of music since the birth of rock and roll, including Tupac's body of work.

YMMV.

FWIW, I care very little about the HoF. It's in Cleveland.

The pointless outrage meter broke on this thread.

(12-21-2016 05:19 AM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 07:56 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 06:35 PM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 05:39 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 01:24 PM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  I've seen more R&R bands in concert than Tupac has ever heard of. I should be in the HOF before him.

How the f--- would you know that? Were you hanging with 2Pac from 1990 until he died in 1996?

Common sense.

How many rock concerts did 2Pac go to?

Not as many as me.

So you don't know. You don't know what 2Pac did in his life. You don't know what music he enjoyed. You don't know which artists he had friendships with. He was in the entertainment business. He was directly connected to Jimmy Iovine. So you don't know if the guy went to a rock concert a night.

Just because he was a black rapper doesn't mean he wasn't a rock guy or metal head.

(12-21-2016 09:07 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  The pointless outrage meter broke on this thread.

It doesn't rule my life, I just thought it would be a decent little message board topic.

Call me crazy, I have this weird desire for words to matter. Certain artists, no matter how you slice it, aren't a part of rock in any way, shape, or form.

Again, I've tipped my hat to Run, Beasties, and a few others as to how one could make the argument.

However, the idea that NWA and Tupac are getting in over bands like the Black Crowes, Moody Blues, Big Star, Judas Priest, the Cars, the Cure, the Replacements, Bon Jovi...etc is absurd and best and seems to be a PC extension of the need for inclusion.

Oh, and edit...I thought LL was already in. He isn't, but Tupac is?

Pfft.

(12-20-2016 05:41 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 04:17 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 04:10 PM)3601 Wrote:  "Rock & roll is not an instrument; rock & roll is not even a style of music. Rock & roll is a spirit. … It's been going since the blues, jazz, bebop, soul, R&B, rock & roll, heavy metal, punk rock and, yes, hip-hop. And what connects us all is that spirit. …Rock & roll is not conforming to the people who came before you, but creating your own path in music and in life."

“Respectfully let me know when Jimi Hendrix gets into the Hip Hop Hall Of Fame. Then you’ll have a point.”

Which Hip-Hop hall of fame would that be?

Who gets inducted into the R-N-R hall of fame that got their start after 2000?

http://hiphophof.tv/

One of my favorite debates of the year..

As far as Tupac Shakur goes, he is a more than deserving first ballot HOFer. Angry white guys who scream "RAP AIN'T MUSIC" really aren't going to change their minds, so we'll just leave it at that.

The biggest shocker to me was the fact that Journey had never even been nominated until now. Can they talk Steve Perry into showing up? I doubt it, but I'd love to see it happen.

(12-21-2016 10:31 AM)HornLakeTiger Wrote:  One of my favorite debates of the year..

As far as Tupac Shakur goes, he is a more than deserving first ballot HOFer. Angry white guys who scream "RAP AIN'T MUSIC" really aren't going to change their minds, so we'll just leave it at that.

The biggest shocker to me was the fact that Journey had never even been nominated until now. Can they talk Steve Perry into showing up? I doubt it, but I'd love to see it happen.

It's not that it isn't music, it isn't rock and roll.

Thus, I would have the same issue if Garth Brooks were elected into the R&R HOF. No doubt he's massively successful, has tremendous star power, made movies, inspired a look, had copycat musicians, is a "rock star of country"...etc.

But, he shouldn't be in the R&R Hall of Fame.

I'm just not understanding why hip hop artists who have no actual nexus to rock and roll are being included in the HOF. No one here would ever consider Garth as a logical inductee even though he fits many of the checkmarks Tupac fills.

I can't think of one rock artist of merit that has been "influenced" by Tupac or has incorporated any artistry from Tupac into its music. My Morning Jacket, the Black Keys, Muse, Kings of Leon, Killers, Drive by Truckers, Hold Steady, et al..