(12-18-2016 10:53 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote: Instead of signing six wide receivers and six DB's every year, how about we sign another kicker. One who can do kickoffs too, and into the end zone. We lose our punter. Are we going for another walk-on at that position again?
This off season will tell me a lot about Candle as a HC. If he doesn't look for another kicker to compete with Vest, or maybe look at some JC transfers to help the defense, or perhaps replace some of his assistants then I guess we'll never get to the level most of us fans aspire the program to reach with this staff. Sure, talent alone will get us 7-8 wins each season but I know this fan base expects more and I don't believe we have the coaching staff to push this program to conference titles, top 25 rankings, and perhaps a BCS bowl
Bottom line, every game we won this year, we were by far the better team. We lost every game that was a competitive matchup. Defensive staff was inept and there needs to be changes. Candle choked in last minutes of the game last night. How you best player in his last game is not on the field the last 3 plays if mind boggling. Take a time out on 3 rd down and calm the troops and tell the guys we have two plays to get a yard. Get it done. Hunt would have will it, like he has his entire career. How this program wasn't able to win a MACC over the last two years may have been the biggest underachievement in program History.
(12-17-2016 09:03 PM)TampaRocket Wrote: That was unreal...completely outcoached and outplayed when it mattered. We win with talent...not coaching.
I think you lose with both. Good game though.
Easy to say when you come out with a win. I imagine you forgot about the kick-off return for a TD that was a handout with a missed hold on the play. Same with a run by the QB when Stepic was held and even the announcers saw it.
Still, then you barely hold on for the win thanks to our coach choking on not knowing what to do. Rushing down to get a play off without the right personnel on the field was the first mistake. then not taking a time-out to get the next call right - and attempting a field goal after taking a delay of game penalty. Obvious homer bias in the South with the discrepancies in penalties We get called for 7 penalities and 63 yards, you get 2 and 21. The one that was called on the kick-off after the one that was returned was just a make-up call. A little too late for that. You cite the plays over the top - we have been doing that all year long. Your dropped passes are just a sign of the talent you have with receivers that can't catch. There's a reason why our QB was connecting on 70% of his passes and ends up with over 4,000 yards passing.
It will always come across as being sore losers when you complain about a game you should have won despite playing bad - but when your coach gives the game away, there is nothing left but bitterness and shoulda, coulda...
Not calling for Candle's resignation here...if we would have won, very few would be complaining. I think we lost to a good G5 team that was very evenly matched against us. The gameplan was obvious and Candle didn't deviate from it no matter what happened...he stood by his convictions, but it was a "play not to lose" mentality:
App St had a lot of take-aways (20 Interceptions) and Candle wanted to play it safe and not lose the turnover battle. [Success for the most part]
Our defense has struggled, partially due to lack of quality depth without Treyvon Hester, Earl Moore and Jaylen Coleman. Candle wanted to run the ball on offense and not let their offense kill us with TOP (WMU had the ball 39 minutes against us). App St ended up having the ball 35 minutes. [Fail for the most part]
The game-plan almost worked. If it wasn't for the KO return for TD in the 3rd quarter , we may have pulled it out. We all knew Candle should have taken Woodside off the leash a bit in the second half. The more we passed, the more the run WAS working. Hunt still finished with over 100 yds.
Where did we go wrong? Here is my opinion. I wasn't impressed with App St's passing defense (26th FBS) or offense (100th FBS). The Sun Belt doesn't have very good passing teams, so App St's passing defense is overrated. Troy was the conference's best passing team and they aren't stellar by any means (39th FBS and they beat App St in a close game). So, we should have been aggressive through the air and tried to get ahead early so Lamb would have been forced to throw the ball more, his weakness. I think Woodside could have easily thrown for 350 yards or more against this team if we had let him be aggressive. Woodside and our receivers are good enough, no doubt. And Hunt could have had an even bigger night with a lot more play-action.
That said, I do agree there are some bad coaching decisions being brought into question (not using the timeout on the 3rd and 1 and continuing to run on first down when they stacked the box). I also 100% agree that we need to change up something on defense and somehow get the program more committed to defense. We made some good strides up through last year, but mediocre coaching and injuries have hurt us. With our defense woes, anyone that thought we should wipe the floor with this team because they were from the Sun Belt doesn't pay enough attention. All of the national and regional experts thought this would be a good, close game, and it was. If we played again 10 times, my guess would be 5-5. Congrats to App St on pulling out the win.
(12-17-2016 09:09 PM)MotoRocket Wrote: It's this type of stuff that keeps me from wanting to spend money to travel to games and just get disappointed from stupidity. It's why I don't travel down to Toledo to watch the Men's BB team either. I just felt like we were going to lose this game once we found out who we were playing - not because Appy State is a better team, but we play to the level of competition, then lose it on stupid mistakes.
BTW - did Appy STate have any penalties called against them other than the BS holding penalty on the kickoff after we scored following their KO return for the TD. Missed the holding on that one. Also missed it on the run that got them down to FG position. Won't even mention the number of times Stepic was complaining about being held as he was putting pressure on to get to the passer. The refs swallowed the whistles in the second half.
We are the better team. Cheap plays over the top and dropped passes by the Apps are the only reason it was even close.
I'm glad your 6 fans are freaking out. You guys are being sore losers.
They teach you to be a jerk at App State or did you develop that yourself?
(12-18-2016 02:19 PM)ToledoMike Wrote: Not calling for Candle's resignation here...if we would have won, very few would be complaining. I think we lost to a good G5 team that was very evenly matched against us. The gameplan was obvious and Candle didn't deviate from it no matter what happened...he stood by his convictions, but it was a "play not to lose" mentality:
App St had a lot of take-aways (20 Interceptions) and Candle wanted to play it safe and not lose the turnover battle. [Success for the most part]
Our defense has struggled, partially due to lack of quality depth without Treyvon Hester, Earl Moore and Jaylen Coleman. Candle wanted to run the ball on offense and not let their offense kill us with TOP (WMU had the ball 39 minutes against us). App St ended up having the ball 35 minutes. [Fail for the most part]
The game-plan almost worked. If it wasn't for the KO return for TD in the 3rd quarter , we may have pulled it out. We all knew Candle should have taken Woodside off the leash a bit in the second half. The more we passed, the more the run WAS working. Hunt still finished with over 100 yds.
Where did we go wrong? Here is my opinion. I wasn't impressed with App St's passing defense (26th FBS) or offense (100th FBS). The Sun Belt doesn't have very good passing teams, so App St's passing defense is overrated. Troy was the conference's best passing team and they aren't stellar by any means (39th FBS and they beat App St in a close game). So, we should have been aggressive through the air and tried to get ahead early so Lamb would have been forced to throw the ball more, his weakness. I think Woodside could have easily thrown for 350 yards or more against this team if we had let him be aggressive. Woodside and our receivers are good enough, no doubt. And Hunt could have had an even bigger night with a lot more play-action.
That said, I do agree there are some bad coaching decisions being brought into question (not using the timeout on the 3rd and 1 and continuing to run on first down when they stacked the box). I also 100% agree that we need to change up something on defense and somehow get the program more committed to defense. We made some good strides up through last year, but mediocre coaching and injuries have hurt us. With our defense woes, anyone that thought we should wipe the floor with this team because they were from the Sun Belt doesn't pay enough attention. All of the national and regional experts thought this would be a good, close game, and it was. If we played again 10 times, my guess would be 5-5. Congrats to App St on pulling out the win.
Was their a Tim Beckman sighting at the end of our game? Where is Matt Campbell when you need him? Bad defense, bad special teams, not sure what to say about the offense. Need to replace a lot of them coaches.
Clearly got out coached in this one. I think the team was ready to play from an effort standpoint. Physically we looked ready and conditioned, but App St was prepared with wrinkles on both sides of the ball to exploit some of our tendencies while we seemed unprepared for their looks. Don't know how you get down to the final plays of the season and instead of going to your future NFL tight end who can catch anything within ten feet of him in the red zone, or your beast of a RB, we run 3 plays into the middle of a stacked box with our 3rd string RB. then, with a chance to win we decide to play for (at best) a tie and chance for OT. And take a penalty to push our kicker back into the gusty night for the kick. Candle clearly choked at that moment. he also seemed too determined all night to stick with the play script and not react to what was open on the field. The biggest gaff of the night was a late game drive in the red zone when woodside had us lined up to punch it in and our sideline stopped them and called an audible when App St had 10 men on the field, giving them time to figure it out and run an 11th out there. That was micromanaged coached at it's worst.
I see Candle as a capable coach and recruiter inmost fronts. However, his inexperience showed in this one and I hope he admits his mistakes and learns from it. The program is solid, talent level is good, lots of guys back and a good recruiting class. we will be fine, but need to figure out how to get over the hump. Painful for the fan base to lose so many close games in the last 6-7 years often with coaching gaffs. Go Rockets!
btw Congrats to App St. Their team played a near perfect game. other than a few drops by the wide outs they were on point; coaching, prep, defense, tackling, offensive reads, ball handling. I thought we looked like the more talented team, but they were sharper. their fans also showed up and left hoarse. Give it up to their energy and support for their team.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2016 07:02 PM by pono.)
While there is some truth to what you guys are saying listening to you all makes me glad I am me and not you and I am not necessarily my own biggest fan
(12-18-2016 10:44 AM)DrGonzo Wrote: I can't believe you are calling for your head coach's resignation, especially regarding offensive plays. You ran into an elite defense yesterday. It was the best one you played all season. You won 9 games and had a stellar offense all year. Step away from the ledge.
Great game. I hope you had as much fun as I did at Kidd Brewer South. We sure did raffle your offense with noise.
We have some of the worst fans in the MAC. Even in wins, people b!tch non-stop. I truly believe some "fans" want UT to lose, just so they can complain more.
(12-18-2016 10:44 AM)DrGonzo Wrote: I can't believe you are calling for your head coach's resignation, especially regarding offensive plays. You ran into an elite defense yesterday. It was the best one you played all season. You won 9 games and had a stellar offense all year. Step away from the ledge.
Great game. I hope you had as much fun as I did at Kidd Brewer South. We sure did raffle your offense with noise.
We have some of the worst fans in the MAC. Even in wins, people b!tch non-stop. I truly believe some "fans" want UT to lose, just so they can complain more.
Discussion boards are just that. We discuss
This is not a rah rah rose garden. If that was the case there is no reason to have a discussion board.
This program has been going with younger and younger head coaches. And as fans we are watching amateur hour play out before our eyes.
Personally think Mr Candle's competence is up for question with what we have seen after one year
(12-18-2016 10:07 PM)indianasniff Wrote: No one is disputing that App State is not a good team
They got a better coach
Not impressed with their QB's passing ability or the ASU receivers. Rockets had problems with QB containment and shooting themselves in the foot with penalties all season. Missing a 30 yd FG and getting lazy on K/O coverage hardly makes Satterfield, 4th year HC at ASU, better than Candle.
there was a lot of worried App fans that SS might leave for the Cinn job, but my take on Satt is he needs atleast another year at App before he takes a P5 or even a AAC job. He is a really good coach, but he made some mistakes this year that he could get away with at App but not at a P5 program, he just needs alittle more time. As far as our qb and the receivers, Lamb, as you guys found out, is a very smart qb, who almost always makes the correct decisions, but, he doesn't have the strongest arm, which has limited our big plays down field with the wrs, our receivers are physically, very talented, but they suffer from too many drops, I think they had 5, or 6 in this game.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2016 09:45 AM by moehler.)
I actually attended the game. It seemed like UT came out flat in the first half. I am hoping that coach can find a way to fire up the players a little more and go for the jugular early on instead of playing conservative and then increasing the intensity and passing more. It seems like the defenses are ready for Kareem Hunt in the first half but then they get a little more tired and he has better second halfs. Why not throw a 20 yard route on that first play instead of running into a seven man front or something? The middle of the field was wide open most of the night for those routes. It was a bowl game, so I think we should have gone for the win, not the field goal. By the way, APP State is not a great team, they are an ok team. Their QB scrambling on third downs was the big difference. We were also an ok team, didn't play that well. If App State as superior they would have blown us out. Onto next year!
(12-18-2016 12:16 PM)BDV27 Wrote: How you best player in his last game is not on the field the last 3 plays if mind boggling.
Don't know if anyone else noticed it, but it seemed to me that Hunt had his bell rung on the play before. App's LB tackled him hard and he sort of fell backwards & his head hit the ground & bounced. I watched the game again last night & the announcers missed it too. I thought he had taken himself out of the game. And, I also thought he sort of wobbled off the field.
But, I noticed that specifically at the game live time. You cannot blame your coach for that.
(12-18-2016 12:16 PM)BDV27 Wrote: How you best player in his last game is not on the field the last 3 plays if mind boggling.
Don't know if anyone else noticed it, but it seemed to me that Hunt had his bell rung on the play before. App's LB tackled him hard and he sort of fell backwards & his head hit the ground & bounced. I watched the game again last night & the announcers missed it too. I thought he had taken himself out of the game. And, I also thought he sort of wobbled off the field.
But, I noticed that specifically at the game live time. You cannot blame your coach for that.
No, but you also have a bunch of gifted receivers, a 6'5" 270 lbs All American TE, and the QB that is leading the FBS in TD passes that competes about 70% of his passes and you don't take a shot for the First Down of 2 yds at the 8 yard line when it is 2 down territory. Your kicker's FG % is worse than the QB's Completion% and you move the FG distance back to where he's missed from, instead of keeping it inside the 30 yds where he's 5-5.
, we may have pulled it out. We all knew Candle should have taken Woodside off the leash a bit in the second half. The more we passed, the more the run WAS working. Hunt still finished with over 100 yds.
