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December 7, 1941
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Seabee TIger Fan Offline
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December 7, 1941
A day of such significance and tragedy will not go unmentioned on this forum.



The attack on Pearl Harbor, also known as the Battle of Pearl Harbor,[9] the Hawaii Operation or Operation AI by the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters,[10][11] and Operation Z during planning,[12] was a surprise military strike by the Imperial Japanese Navy against the United States naval base at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii Territory, on the morning of December 7, 1941. The attack led to the United States' entry into World War II.

Japan intended the attack as a preventive action to keep the U.S. Pacific Fleet from interfering with military actions the Empire of Japan planned in Southeast Asia against overseas territories of the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and the United States. Over the next seven hours there were coordinated Japanese attacks on the U.S.-held Philippines, Guam and Wake Island and on the British Empire in Malaya, Singapore, and Hong Kong.[13]

The attack commenced at 7:48 a.m. Hawaiian Time.[14] The base was attacked by 353[15] Imperial Japanese fighter planes, bombers, and torpedo planes in two waves, launched from six aircraft carriers.[15] All eight U.S. Navy battleships were damaged, with four sunk. All but the USS Arizona (BB-39) were later raised, and six were returned to service and went on to fight in the war. The Japanese also sank or damaged three cruisers, three destroyers, an anti-aircraft training ship,[nb 4] and one minelayer. 188 U.S. aircraft were destroyed; 2,403 Americans were killed and 1,178 others were wounded.[17] Important base installations such as the power station, shipyard, maintenance, and fuel and torpedo storage facilities, as well as the submarine piers and headquarters building (also home of the intelligence section) were not attacked. Japanese losses were light: 29 aircraft and five midget submarines lost, and 64 servicemen killed. One Japanese sailor, Kazuo Sakamaki, was captured.

The attack came as a profound shock to the American people and led directly to the American entry into World War II in both the Pacific and European theaters. The following day, December 8, the United States declared war on Japan.[18] Domestic support for non-interventionism, which had been fading since the Fall of France in 1940,[19] disappeared. Clandestine support of the United Kingdom (e.g., the Neutrality Patrol) was replaced by active alliance. Subsequent operations by the U.S. prompted Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy to declare war on the U.S. on December 11, which was reciprocated by the U.S. the same day.

There were numerous historical precedents for unannounced military action by Japan. However, the lack of any formal warning, particularly while negotiations were still apparently ongoing, led President Franklin D. Roosevelt to proclaim December 7, 1941, "a date which will live in infamy". Because the attack happened without a declaration of war and without explicit warning, the attack on Pearl Harbor was judged by the Tokyo Trials to be a war crime.[20][21]
12-08-2016 12:02 AM
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Penny Lane Offline
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RE: December 7, 1941
Amen. Remember some asking Bush if he was going to apologize to Japan for the US dropping the bomb. Sanitized version was "not this president" But it will probably happen when a millennial or Xer gets in the White House.

Finished watching Pacific last night-a Tom Hanks produced companion mini series to Band of Brothers (which might be the best thing ever made for TV). The Pacific theater was more brutal than the European. Great series if you want to see history in an interesting and intelligent but brutally honest way.
12-08-2016 12:41 AM
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RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 12:41 AM)Penny Lane Wrote:  Amen. Remember some asking Bush if he was going to apologize to Japan for the US dropping the bomb. Sanitized version was "not this president" But it will probably happen when a millennial or Xer gets in the White House.

Finished watching Pacific last night-a Tom Hanks produced companion mini series to Band of Brothers (which might be the best thing ever made for TV). The Pacific theater was more brutal than the European. Great series if you want to see history in an interesting and intelligent but brutally honest way.

Pickup "Helmet for My Pillow", one of the books The Pacific was based off of, probably the greatest book I've ever read. I still haven't seen Band of Brothers, I've always been more fascinated with the Pacific theatre, being Navy, but it is certainly something I intend on doing on my next deployment.
12-08-2016 12:52 AM
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Penny Lane Offline
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RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 12:52 AM)Seabee TIger Fan Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 12:41 AM)Penny Lane Wrote:  Amen. Remember some asking Bush if he was going to apologize to Japan for the US dropping the bomb. Sanitized version was "not this president" But it will probably happen when a millennial or Xer gets in the White House.

Finished watching Pacific last night-a Tom Hanks produced companion mini series to Band of Brothers (which might be the best thing ever made for TV). The Pacific theater was more brutal than the European. Great series if you want to see history in an interesting and intelligent but brutally honest way.

Pickup "Helmet for My Pillow", one of the books The Pacific was based off of, probably the greatest book I've ever read. I still haven't seen Band of Brothers, I've always been more fascinated with the Pacific theatre, being Navy, but it is certainly something I intend on doing on my next deployment.

Didn't Leckie write Helmet for My Pillow?
12-08-2016 01:16 AM
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RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 01:16 AM)Penny Lane Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 12:52 AM)Seabee TIger Fan Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 12:41 AM)Penny Lane Wrote:  Amen. Remember some asking Bush if he was going to apologize to Japan for the US dropping the bomb. Sanitized version was "not this president" But it will probably happen when a millennial or Xer gets in the White House.

Finished watching Pacific last night-a Tom Hanks produced companion mini series to Band of Brothers (which might be the best thing ever made for TV). The Pacific theater was more brutal than the European. Great series if you want to see history in an interesting and intelligent but brutally honest way.

Pickup "Helmet for My Pillow", one of the books The Pacific was based off of, probably the greatest book I've ever read. I still haven't seen Band of Brothers, I've always been more fascinated with the Pacific theatre, being Navy, but it is certainly something I intend on doing on my next deployment.

Didn't Leckie write Helmet for My Pillow?

Yes he did.
12-08-2016 01:21 AM
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Post: #6
RE: December 7, 1941
Every time I'm in Hono, I try to go to Pearl Harbor and the Arizona memorial. It is such a truly sobering experience.

God Bless all those men and women that were there for our country on that day, and all the ones that serve today around the world.
12-08-2016 02:11 AM
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ncrdbl1 Offline
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RE: December 7, 1941
If there is one thing to be semi thankful for on that day is that, not knowing location of US Air Craft Carriers and fearing US submarines finding his fleet, Yamamoto diverted from his original plans and failed to send out a third and fourth wave to attack the dry docks and fuel depots.

Destruction of the dry docks and fuel depot would have forced the US pacific fleet to relocate back to San Diego. But they failed to do so and the fleet was repaired in Hawaii and the fuel depot was used to send out the remaining fleet to the Coral Sea and Midway. US fleet battled to a draw at the Coral Sea and then all but destroyed the Japanese fleet's offensive ability at Midway.

A side note is they are still identifying remains from the Oklahoma to this day.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/12/07/pea...ified.html
12-08-2016 06:23 AM
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RE: December 7, 1941
The next day, December 8, Japan attacked multiple targets in the Pacific including Singapore in Malaya and Manila in the Philippines.

They made most of their progress in the months immediately following the attack on Pearl Harbor.

In June 1942 the Battle of Midway stopped them cold and the long, island hopping fight back across the Pacific for the US began.
12-08-2016 09:11 AM
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Phillip26r Offline
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RE: December 7, 1941
Helmet For My Pillow is one of the best WWII books I've read.

I would also recommend Hampton Sides' "Ghost Soldiers". This is an account of the Bataan Death March and subsequent imprisonment and prison break. A man who was at Bataan told me it was the most accurately descriptive account of this event he had ever read.
12-08-2016 09:39 AM
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ncrdbl1 Offline
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RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 09:11 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  The next day, December 8, Japan attacked multiple targets in the Pacific including Singapore in Malaya and Manila in the Philippines.

They made most of their progress in the months immediately following the attack on Pearl Harbor.

In June 1942 the Battle of Midway stopped them cold and the long, island hopping fight back across the Pacific for the US began.

Sometimes they even got lucky. The battle for Singapore had taken a heavy toll on both sides. What General Percival, did not realize that when he met with the Japanese commander the Japanese was expecting the British to ask for their surrender. Japanese were all but out of supplies and were a week away from having to pull out without capturing Singapore.

Midway ended their ability to strike out and expand their territory after the loss of four large carriers and several hundred experienced pilots. But the Coral Sea was their first black eye of the war.Although the US lost the Lexington in the battle the Japanese lost a couple smaller carriers. And the Japanese were not completely responsible for the Lexington. The ship was back under power and for the most part the fires were under control. But they failed to realize there was an aviation fuel leak. It was the ignition of the build up of fumes from the leak which caused the fatal blow to the Lexington.


But think how the battle of Midway may have turned out differently if an US ship was not at the place picked to refuel a recon plane which was supposed to report if the US carriers were at Pearl. Instead of having the Kaga and Akagi rearm their planes with bombs to attack Midway a second time they would have kept their torpedoes to attack the carriers. By the time they got word the carriers where near Midway and reversed their decision to rearming the planes they were stuck with a deck full of armaments and little to no fighter cover.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2016 10:53 AM by ncrdbl1.)
12-08-2016 10:34 AM
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RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 09:39 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  Helmet For My Pillow is one of the best WWII books I've read.

I would also recommend Hampton Sides' "Ghost Soldiers". This is an account of the Bataan Death March and subsequent imprisonment and prison break. A man who was at Bataan told me it was the most accurately descriptive account of this event he had ever read.

I read that. It was excellent but sad and disturbing.

Even the Germans generally treated POWs according to the Geneva convention (as long as you weren't Jewish that is).

The Japanese were extremely cruel and sadistic. The prison guards would often have beheading contests with the results published in Japanese newspapers.

All of this apologizing for dropping a couple of A-bombs to end the war short of having to actually invade the Japanese home islands is absolute bull****. The Emperor was complicit and should have been executed along with the rest of the war criminals. Only MacArthur's direct intervention saved Hirohito (live into 1989).

Those bombs saved seven figures of casualties on BOTH sides.

Revisionist historians make me sick.
12-08-2016 10:45 AM
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RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 10:45 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 09:39 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  Helmet For My Pillow is one of the best WWII books I've read.

I would also recommend Hampton Sides' "Ghost Soldiers". This is an account of the Bataan Death March and subsequent imprisonment and prison break. A man who was at Bataan told me it was the most accurately descriptive account of this event he had ever read.

I read that. It was excellent but sad and disturbing.

Even the Germans generally treated POWs according to the Geneva convention (as long as you weren't Jewish that is).

The Japanese were extremely cruel and sadistic. The prison guards would often have beheading contests with the results published in Japanese newspapers.

All of this apologizing for dropping a couple of A-bombs to end the war short of having to actually invade the Japanese home islands is absolute bull****. The Emperor was complicit and should have been executed along with the rest of the war criminals. Only MacArthur's direct intervention saved Hirohito (live into 1989).

Those bombs saved seven figures of casualties on BOTH sides.

Revisionist historians make me sick.

No one came out that war with clean hands. If the Axis power had of won the US and the Allies could have easily have face war crime tribunals.

The fire bombing of Tokyo could have been considered a war crime. The carpet bombing of civilians by the British also could have resulted in war crime charges. Over a million German women were raped by Russian troops after the fall of Berlin. Some 50,000 German prisoners taken to camps in Russia were never heard from again.

That is not saying that the Axis were any better. The rape of Nam King was a new level of atrocities.Germans used prisoner for medical experiments at least those who were not killed out right.
12-08-2016 11:03 AM
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RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 09:39 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  Helmet For My Pillow is one of the best WWII books I've read.

I would also recommend Hampton Sides' "Ghost Soldiers". This is an account of the Bataan Death March and subsequent imprisonment and prison break. A man who was at Bataan told me it was the most accurately descriptive account of this event he had ever read.

About 12 years ago I got to meet and talk with a survivor of the Bataan Death March. He was actually interviewed for this book and some of his accounts are included in the book. This man recalled in exact detail all that he went through which was pure hell. I was captivated by every word he shared. It's a miracle he survived. He did share that to this day he will not do business with any company owned by a Japanese person.
12-08-2016 12:18 PM
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RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 12:18 PM)eltigre Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 09:39 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  Helmet For My Pillow is one of the best WWII books I've read.

I would also recommend Hampton Sides' "Ghost Soldiers". This is an account of the Bataan Death March and subsequent imprisonment and prison break. A man who was at Bataan told me it was the most accurately descriptive account of this event he had ever read.

About 12 years ago I got to meet and talk with a survivor of the Bataan Death March. He was actually interviewed for this book and some of his accounts are included in the book. This man recalled in exact detail all that he went through which was pure hell. I was captivated by every word he shared. It's a miracle he survived. He did share that to this day he will not do business with any company owned by a Japanese person.

We're the Battling Bastards of Bataan
No Mama No Papa No Uncle Sam...

How horrible that must have been to face that kind of evil without any means for fighting back and knowing you were on your own until you were either on the wrong end of a soldier's bad mood or died from starvation.
12-08-2016 12:38 PM
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Penny Lane Offline
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RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 10:45 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 09:39 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  Helmet For My Pillow is one of the best WWII books I've read.

I would also recommend Hampton Sides' "Ghost Soldiers". This is an account of the Bataan Death March and subsequent imprisonment and prison break. A man who was at Bataan told me it was the most accurately descriptive account of this event he had ever read.

I read that. It was excellent but sad and disturbing.

Even the Germans generally treated POWs according to the Geneva convention (as long as you weren't Jewish that is).

The Japanese were extremely cruel and sadistic. The prison guards would often have beheading contests with the results published in Japanese newspapers.

All of this apologizing for dropping a couple of A-bombs to end the war short of having to actually invade the Japanese home islands is absolute bull****. The Emperor was complicit and should have been executed along with the rest of the war criminals. Only MacArthur's direct intervention saved Hirohito (live into 1989).

Those bombs saved seven figures of casualties on BOTH sides.

Revisionist histonrias make me sick.

Agreed-but not many Revisionist historians are call the Bomb a mistake.
12-08-2016 01:19 PM
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RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 01:19 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 10:45 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 09:39 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  Helmet For My Pillow is one of the best WWII books I've read.

I would also recommend Hampton Sides' "Ghost Soldiers". This is an account of the Bataan Death March and subsequent imprisonment and prison break. A man who was at Bataan told me it was the most accurately descriptive account of this event he had ever read.

I read that. It was excellent but sad and disturbing.

Even the Germans generally treated POWs according to the Geneva convention (as long as you weren't Jewish that is).

The Japanese were extremely cruel and sadistic. The prison guards would often have beheading contests with the results published in Japanese newspapers.

All of this apologizing for dropping a couple of A-bombs to end the war short of having to actually invade the Japanese home islands is absolute bull****. The Emperor was complicit and should have been executed along with the rest of the war criminals. Only MacArthur's direct intervention saved Hirohito (live into 1989).

Those bombs saved seven figures of casualties on BOTH sides.

Revisionist histonrias make me sick.

Agreed-but not many Revisionist historians are call the Bomb a mistake.

If we hadn't dropped those bombs, I probably wouldn't be here. My dad was gonna be in the invasion.

I'm sure many on here wish that would have happened
12-08-2016 01:26 PM
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Penny Lane Offline
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RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 11:03 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 10:45 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 09:39 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  Helmet For My Pillow is one of the best WWII books I've read.

I would also recommend Hampton Sides' "Ghost Soldiers". This is an account of the Bataan Death March and subsequent imprisonment and prison break. A man who was at Bataan told me it was the most accurately descriptive account of this event he had ever read.

I read that. It was excellent but sad and disturbing.

Even the Germans generally treated POWs according to the Geneva convention (as long as you weren't Jewish that is).

The Japanese were extremely cruel and sadistic. The prison guards would often have beheading contests with the results published in Japanese newspapers.

All of this apologizing for dropping a couple of A-bombs to end the war short of having to actually invade the Japanese home islands is absolute bull****. The Emperor was complicit and should have been executed along with the rest of the war criminals. Only MacArthur's direct intervention saved Hirohito (live into 1989).

Those bombs saved seven figures of casualties on BOTH sides.

Revisionist historians make me sick.

No one came out that war with clean hands. If the Axis power had of won the US and the Allies could have easily have face war crime tribunals.

The fire bombing of Tokyo could have been considered a war crime. The carpet bombing of civilians by the British also could have resulted in war crime charges. Over a million German women were raped by Russian troops after the fall of Berlin. Some 50,000 German prisoners taken to camps in Russia were never heard from again.

That is not saying that the Axis were any better. The rape of Nam King was a new level of atrocities.Germans used prisoner for medical experiments at least those who were not killed out right.

You are full of bull shite and sound like the Revisionist historian mentioned above. Our hands were cleaner than anyone's and we were attacked to start the damn thing. Russia was NOT a true ally as proved after the war-what they did has no bearing on USA.

This is a very ignorant statement:

"fire bombing of Tokyo could have been considered a war crime"
12-08-2016 01:27 PM
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Post: #18
RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 01:27 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 11:03 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 10:45 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 09:39 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  Helmet For My Pillow is one of the best WWII books I've read.

I would also recommend Hampton Sides' "Ghost Soldiers". This is an account of the Bataan Death March and subsequent imprisonment and prison break. A man who was at Bataan told me it was the most accurately descriptive account of this event he had ever read.

I read that. It was excellent but sad and disturbing.

Even the Germans generally treated POWs according to the Geneva convention (as long as you weren't Jewish that is).

The Japanese were extremely cruel and sadistic. The prison guards would often have beheading contests with the results published in Japanese newspapers.

All of this apologizing for dropping a couple of A-bombs to end the war short of having to actually invade the Japanese home islands is absolute bull****. The Emperor was complicit and should have been executed along with the rest of the war criminals. Only MacArthur's direct intervention saved Hirohito (live into 1989).

Those bombs saved seven figures of casualties on BOTH sides.

Revisionist historians make me sick.

No one came out that war with clean hands. If the Axis power had of won the US and the Allies could have easily have face war crime tribunals.

The fire bombing of Tokyo could have been considered a war crime. The carpet bombing of civilians by the British also could have resulted in war crime charges. Over a million German women were raped by Russian troops after the fall of Berlin. Some 50,000 German prisoners taken to camps in Russia were never heard from again.

That is not saying that the Axis were any better. The rape of Nam King was a new level of atrocities.Germans used prisoner for medical experiments at least those who were not killed out right.

You are full of bull shite and sound like the Revisionist historian mentioned above. Our hands were cleaner than anyone's and we were attacked to start the damn thing. Russia was NOT a true ally as proved after the war-what they did has no bearing on USA.

This is a very ignorant statement:

"fire bombing of Tokyo could have been considered a war crime"

The Russians had 21 million casualties and after FDR worked so hard to establish good relations, he died and then the Russians were alienated by Truman (the most unqualified president in history) and his good Ole boy right hand man from South Carolina. Stalin might have been a monster, but he won the war in Europe. Truman was a clown and failed business man who was put into office by a Kansas City mobster. But he was easy for the party to control. Thats why the VP nomination was stolen from Wallace.
12-08-2016 03:51 PM
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holyterror Offline
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Post: #19
RE: December 7, 1941
"When you are beating your swords into plowshares, there's a frightening time when you can't fight and you can't plow."
12-08-2016 05:49 PM
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RE: December 7, 1941
(12-08-2016 01:19 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 10:45 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 09:39 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  Helmet For My Pillow is one of the best WWII books I've read.

I would also recommend Hampton Sides' "Ghost Soldiers". This is an account of the Bataan Death March and subsequent imprisonment and prison break. A man who was at Bataan told me it was the most accurately descriptive account of this event he had ever read.

I read that. It was excellent but sad and disturbing.

Even the Germans generally treated POWs according to the Geneva convention (as long as you weren't Jewish that is).

The Japanese were extremely cruel and sadistic. The prison guards would often have beheading contests with the results published in Japanese newspapers.

All of this apologizing for dropping a couple of A-bombs to end the war short of having to actually invade the Japanese home islands is absolute bull****. The Emperor was complicit and should have been executed along with the rest of the war criminals. Only MacArthur's direct intervention saved Hirohito (live into 1989).

Those bombs saved seven figures of casualties on BOTH sides.

Revisionist histonrias make me sick.

Agreed-but not many Revisionist historians are call the Bomb a mistake.


Well eff them. It's easy for them to spew a bunch of **** 70-75 years afterward when no one is around anymore to defend their decision.

Idiots.
12-08-2016 06:58 PM
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