(11-16-2016 11:12 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  Well, to be fair, supporters of the Electoral College on this very board (me included) DID state that if the Democrats didn't like the EC, they should attempt to amend the Constitution.

And that's exactly what they're attempting.

So now we'll see what happens when the process plays out. When it gets defeated soundly, it will be very unlikely to every get challenged again. Which would be a good thing for our Republic.

Yes feel free to waste your time Libs. Never going to happen..Never.

Abolishing the Electoral College used to be something that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle hoped would one day happen. However, now that it suits the Republicans, they all of the sudden love it.

(11-16-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Abolishing the Electoral College used to be something that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle hoped would one day happen. However, now that it suits the Republicans, they all of the sudden love it.

Just like the Democrats loved loved loved the Electoral College in 2008 and 2012 when they won and now hate it with the fire of a thousand suns in 2016. I guaran-dam-tee you if the Dems win in 2020, they'll go back to loving it madly.

(11-16-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Abolishing the Electoral College used to be something that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle hoped would one day happen. However, now that it suits the Republicans, they all of the sudden love it.

Citation needed...

(11-16-2016 12:48 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Abolishing the Electoral College used to be something that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle hoped would one day happen. However, now that it suits the Republicans, they all of the sudden love it.

Citation needed...

I'm not sure you can really cite the voices in Fit's head.

(11-16-2016 12:48 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Abolishing the Electoral College used to be something that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle hoped would one day happen. However, now that it suits the Republicans, they all of the sudden love it.

Citation needed...

Agreed. While it is an interesting topic as an academic exercise, as soon as you start to peel back the onion, you see all sorts of issues with eliminating it.... and 'better' alternatives to a straight popular vote. I recall most of us on the right saying this before.

One major issue with a straight popular vote is 'vote stacking'. i.e. if you are in control, you put measures on the ballot during the presidential cycle that your people care about but the other side is ambivalent about.

(11-16-2016 12:48 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Abolishing the Electoral College used to be something that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle hoped would one day happen. However, now that it suits the Republicans, they all of the sudden love it.

Just like the Democrats loved loved loved the Electoral College in 2008 and 2012 when they won and now hate it with the fire of a thousand suns in 2016. I guaran-dam-tee you if the Dems win in 2020, they'll go back to loving it madly.

I hate to break this to you brah but Obama won the popular vote in both of those elections.

(11-16-2016 01:54 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:48 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Abolishing the Electoral College used to be something that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle hoped would one day happen. However, now that it suits the Republicans, they all of the sudden love it.

Just like the Democrats loved loved loved the Electoral College in 2008 and 2012 when they won and now hate it with the fire of a thousand suns in 2016. I guaran-dam-tee you if the Dems win in 2020, they'll go back to loving it madly.

I hate to break this to you brah but Obama won the popular vote in both of those elections.

That's fantastic. What does that have to do with the point I made?

i am still wondering why she didnt have a problem with the electoral college before the election.

(11-16-2016 11:38 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 11:15 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 10:48 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 10:42 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 10:40 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Nothing prevents states from doing that.... That's the beauty of federalism.

You are correct. The states can do that right now. The whining and crying from the Dems over losing this election is truly epic.

The problem is that the states which would benefit the most are so owned by one party... No way the democrats in CA or the Republicans in TX want to make it harder for their guy/gale

It's one of those "if you do it, then we'll do it" type things. Probably needs to come from a national level, so that each state can argue the benefits for/against the change.

But you literally can't enforce it at the national level right now. I can't imagine how hard it would be to craft a bill to foist this on the states which passes constitutional muster.

Maybe what you need is reciprocity.... If you got two groups of one or more states with the same number of electors to each commit to do it

Blue - NY, MA, CT, RI - 51
Red - TX, OK, AR - 51

Some time ago people tried to get bills passed in the states which would make the states award proportionally. It would be triggered when enough EV's were in the pact to secure the election.

That's trying to swallow the elephant.

By limiting the scope to smaller groups of states, and by provisioning EV's like NE and ME (instead of purely proportionally) you could start to eat it a bite at a time.

By nationally, I mean get all the parties in a room to talk about it. Then try to convince each state that it works better this way, like you wrote above. That's a pretty good idea.

(11-16-2016 02:19 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 01:54 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:48 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Abolishing the Electoral College used to be something that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle hoped would one day happen. However, now that it suits the Republicans, they all of the sudden love it.

Just like the Democrats loved loved loved the Electoral College in 2008 and 2012 when they won and now hate it with the fire of a thousand suns in 2016. I guaran-dam-tee you if the Dems win in 2020, they'll go back to loving it madly.

I hate to break this to you brah but Obama won the popular vote in both of those elections.

That's fantastic. What does that have to do with the point I made?

The point is that the electoral college did not effect the election.

(11-16-2016 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 02:19 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 01:54 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:48 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Abolishing the Electoral College used to be something that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle hoped would one day happen. However, now that it suits the Republicans, they all of the sudden love it.

Just like the Democrats loved loved loved the Electoral College in 2008 and 2012 when they won and now hate it with the fire of a thousand suns in 2016. I guaran-dam-tee you if the Dems win in 2020, they'll go back to loving it madly.

I hate to break this to you brah but Obama won the popular vote in both of those elections.

That's fantastic. What does that have to do with the point I made?

The point is that the electoral college did not effect the election.

then how did he become president then?

(11-16-2016 02:44 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 02:19 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 01:54 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:48 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  Just like the Democrats loved loved loved the Electoral College in 2008 and 2012 when they won and now hate it with the fire of a thousand suns in 2016. I guaran-dam-tee you if the Dems win in 2020, they'll go back to loving it madly.

I hate to break this to you brah but Obama won the popular vote in both of those elections.

That's fantastic. What does that have to do with the point I made?

The point is that the electoral college did not effect the election.

then how did he become president then?

What I mean to say is that the outcome was not contrary to the electoral college.

(11-16-2016 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 02:19 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 01:54 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:48 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Abolishing the Electoral College used to be something that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle hoped would one day happen. However, now that it suits the Republicans, they all of the sudden love it.

Just like the Democrats loved loved loved the Electoral College in 2008 and 2012 when they won and now hate it with the fire of a thousand suns in 2016. I guaran-dam-tee you if the Dems win in 2020, they'll go back to loving it madly.

I hate to break this to you brah but Obama won the popular vote in both of those elections.

That's fantastic. What does that have to do with the point I made?

The point is that the electoral college did not effect the election.

Ahem, "affect" Fit. …and you're right the right person won.

(11-16-2016 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 02:19 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 01:54 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:48 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Abolishing the Electoral College used to be something that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle hoped would one day happen. However, now that it suits the Republicans, they all of the sudden love it.

Just like the Democrats loved loved loved the Electoral College in 2008 and 2012 when they won and now hate it with the fire of a thousand suns in 2016. I guaran-dam-tee you if the Dems win in 2020, they'll go back to loving it madly.

I hate to break this to you brah but Obama won the popular vote in both of those elections.

That's fantastic. What does that have to do with the point I made?

The point is that the electoral college did not effect the election.

But if it's such a problem then shouldn't it be?

I mean it's been in existence for 228 years and this isn't the first time that there has been a difference between the popular vote and the electoral college.

Perhaps what should have been done is you educators should have actually educated your students as to how our electoral system really works and we wouldn't be having all these riots from sour grapes leftists.

(11-16-2016 06:21 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  How about every state has an equal point. 50 points total. Whom wins the most states, wins !

+1

States should have equal rights regardless of population!

(11-16-2016 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 02:19 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 01:54 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:48 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Abolishing the Electoral College used to be something that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle hoped would one day happen. However, now that it suits the Republicans, they all of the sudden love it.

Just like the Democrats loved loved loved the Electoral College in 2008 and 2012 when they won and now hate it with the fire of a thousand suns in 2016. I guaran-dam-tee you if the Dems win in 2020, they'll go back to loving it madly.

I hate to break this to you brah but Obama won the popular vote in both of those elections.

That's fantastic. What does that have to do with the point I made?

The point is that the electoral college did not effect the election.

The EC didn't affect this election either. Yet the Dems hate the EC with the fire of a thousand suns. I'd ask why, but you already know the answer.

I'm sorry, but abolishing the Electoral College is a terrible idea.

The Electoral College is Anything But Outdated

"The Constitution is paradoxical most of all about power, which it grants and withholds, bestows and limits, aggregates and divides, liberates and restrains. Elections are staggered, so as to distribute them across time. The founding document also divides power across space; the people grant a share of their natural authority to the federal government, but another share to the states where they live.

This innovation is most directly responsible for the greatness of the United States. Think what the Founders achieved: They invented a way of governing, and they extended it without benefit of kings or colonies across a vast continent, bigger than they could imagine, until they got to the other side 30 years later. The magnificent Northwest Ordinance granted free government to the territories, then representative and independent state government thereafter. Ruled from Washington, the nation could never have settled this land in freedom nor made it so strong.

The practical political equality that the American people have achieved depends entirely upon their ability to spread political authority across a vast area. In American political life, it matters how many people are in favor of a given thing. It also matters where they live.

We forget that it is a historical rarity to have an executive strong enough to do the job but still responsible to the people he governs. The laws in the U.S. have worked that miracle for longer than anywhere else. Remember that the Electoral College helps establish the ground upon which the American people must talk with each other, while ensuring that they are not ruled as colonies from a bunch of blue capitals, nor from a bunch of red ones."