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"David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
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owl95 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 09:19 AM)allbig8 Wrote:  OK.... I'm a former coach so obviously I will bias myself in favor of the coach.... I've sat and watched the game threads where "we" either sit in the bleachers or in our living rooms and comment on play calls or strategies or personnel decisions like we know one damn thing.....Here are the realities for all these experts:
1) Not one of you has seen a practice
2) Not one of you was a part of recruiting a single one of these kids..... And.... if you truly want to be critical of a program, criticize recruiting..... Either the coaches aren't accumulating talent or the restrictions for admissions are a barrier.
3) Not one of you has evaluated game film
4) Not one of you has scouted an opponent
5) DB has had to recruit at a university with arguably the absolute WORST facilities in America... He has only been able to sell a first rate education. Look at Tyler Stehling... this is a great great kid who is competing his butt off. But is he thinking NFL? No.... He's thinking architecture major or whatever hes majoring in...Now that the Patterson Center is complete and DB has something to sell that is remotely football related, let's see who comes to Rice to play.
6) Has DB had a great year as a coach? Based on the metric that all of us experts go by, no. Wins and losses are the ultimate factor. There are excuses... Youth, injuries, etc.... Those are just excuses true... But as a former coach myself, my W-L record and my quality as a coach was usually extremely proportionate to the luck, talent, and health of my team. When I had those three things, I was Bellicheck.
7) DB has brought the university the one thing it could not accomplish in my lifetime and/or pretty much my dad's lifetime.... a conference title... The willingness to pay a coach big $ at Rice tells me that the options and the appeal is limited.

Should DB feel pressure? Absolutely... Coaches always do. He has promised a facility, and now he has it. He should be in a position where he should feel like this year must be an anomaly and next year must turn it around significantly. But fired? Would any of you experts want your employment to be based on your worst 8 months? or your best?

This ain't Bama football... take a break... Give the man, who is a very good man, the chance to make the Owl folks proud of their program. If he doesn't get it going next year (his first full recruiting season and off-season in a new facility), then he should account....

My father is a Rice alum, and he will tell you who seem "shocked and awed" by a tough season that you've obviously not watched Rice football for the last half century.

That's just my thoughts... It's pretty easy to coach from Row 36 at Rice Stadium.... And even easier to come on Parliament and talk about how "dumb" or "terrible" someone is.....

Are you kidding me??!!? I matriculated in 1991 and I have been watching Rice football almost continuously for the last 25 years and we have *never* been this bad as a team, except for Hatfield's last year. We do not have the worst facilities in D1, and we do not have the worst talent in D1. I do not have to be a coach to see the result on the field. Hatfield is/was a great coach and it doesn't change the fact that it was time for him to move on. It is also time for Bailiff to move on.
11-14-2016 09:41 AM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #22
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
Football really is a good ol boys club. It's no surprise that ****** coaches seem to keep getting second, third and fourth chances. Their buddies keep them in circulation

As for the oft repeated and still silly argument that none of us know how to be a coach, most of us haven't been CEOs yet we judge a company when we buy or sell stocks.

Yawn
11-14-2016 10:03 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 09:19 AM)allbig8 Wrote:  OK.... I'm a former coach so obviously I will bias myself in favor of the coach.... I've sat and watched the game threads where "we" either sit in the bleachers or in our living rooms and comment on play calls or strategies or personnel decisions like we know one damn thing.....Here are the realities for all these experts:
1) Not one of you has seen a practice

OK, I have seen a few practices. Wish I'd seen more, and I've talked to people who have seen more and they have the same impression. I don't think we work very hard in practice. I see a lot of people standing around doing nothing. And I don't think that mistakes in practice carry much if anything in the way of adverse consequences. You tolerate poor execution in practices, you get it in games. You may have seen practices and you may have a different impression. If so, I'd be interested in your sharing it.

My question to you as a coach: Do you think that David Bailiff really gets the most out of his players?

I've talked to other coaches, and they don't think so. They say that his teams play hard, but are sloppy and execute poorly and make a lot of mental errors. That's pretty much what I've seen. I'd be interested in knowing if you have a different opinion, and if so why.

As for recruiting, the big positive for Bailiff has always been that he is supposed to be a great recruiter. If recruiting is the problem, then maybe his alleged strength isn't really a strength.

I'd also be interested in your comments on this impression. It looks to me like the whole approach is that we have this system that is going to work when we have good enough players to make it work, so the whole focus is on forcing what we have into that system instead of trying to adjust the system to fit the strengths of the players. As a result, we end up asking people to do things that they can't do, instead of taking what they can do and figuring out how best to utilize that. My big problem with this approach is that, given our academic and other limitations, I don't see how we can ever recruit talent to make that approach work on any kind of consistent basis. We may get a few unheralded players from time to time, and if enough of them come together we can be pretty good, but that is not sustainable. We need somebody who can do enough innovative things schematically to enable us to punch more than our weight. I don't see that happening with this coach.
11-14-2016 10:40 AM
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davidw Offline
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Post: #24
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 10:03 AM)Antarius Wrote:  Football really is a good ol boys club. It's no surprise that ****** coaches seem to keep getting second, third and fourth chances. Their buddies keep them in circulation

As for the oft repeated and still silly argument that none of us know how to be a coach, most of us haven't been CEOs yet we judge a company when we buy or sell stocks.

Yawn

yep, and how many times have you been right on them there stock picks, Antarius ?

double yawn
11-14-2016 10:50 AM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #25
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 10:50 AM)davidw Wrote:  
(11-14-2016 10:03 AM)Antarius Wrote:  Football really is a good ol boys club. It's no surprise that ****** coaches seem to keep getting second, third and fourth chances. Their buddies keep them in circulation

As for the oft repeated and still silly argument that none of us know how to be a coach, most of us haven't been CEOs yet we judge a company when we buy or sell stocks.

Yawn

yep, and how many times have you been right on them there stock picks, Antarius ?

double yawn

Batting pretty good. Not as good as being right about Braun, Bailiff and Greenspan but pretty good nonetheless.
11-14-2016 10:54 AM
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Post: #26
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 09:19 AM)allbig8 Wrote:  OK.... I'm a former coach so obviously I will bias myself in favor of the coach....

Question: 3 coaches, 3 sports. (Wayne, Mike and David.) Each coaches a year of each others' teams (Baseball, Basketball and Football.) Same exact teams for all 3 so you can compare equally. Who does best? I'm looking not for specialty in preferred sport, I'm talking raw coaching abilities that are transitive.
11-14-2016 12:03 PM
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Post: #27
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-12-2016 02:55 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  I wonder if Brian T. Smith is watching the train wreck in Charlotte?

Brian T. Smith - What? Rice has a football game today?

You mean the win?
11-14-2016 12:10 PM
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Post: #28
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 12:03 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(11-14-2016 09:19 AM)allbig8 Wrote:  OK.... I'm a former coach so obviously I will bias myself in favor of the coach....

Question: 3 coaches, 3 sports. (Wayne, Mike and David.) Each coaches a year of each others' teams (Baseball, Basketball and Football.) Same exact teams for all 3 so you can compare equally. Who does best? I'm looking not for specialty in preferred sport, I'm talking raw coaching abilities that are transitive.

Easy. Graham. Then Rhoades.
11-14-2016 12:25 PM
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Post: #29
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 09:19 AM)allbig8 Wrote:  That's just my thoughts... It's pretty easy to coach from Row 36 at Rice Stadium.... And even easier to come on Parliament and talk about how "dumb" or "terrible" someone is.....

It's even easier to criticize Rice posters (most of whom know each other) from the mid west and talk about how 'uninformed' many of us are. I think a lot of us know a lot more about it than you seem to think... He's on the hot seat list for a reason.... and likely only 'where he is' (and not #1) because of the reasons you mention.

Of course one has to wonder why a Big 8 fan/former coach would suddenly come onto the Rice board to tout how uninformed we all are and what a great coach we have.... I suspect we know more about DB and his coaching acumen than you know about us.

If we're wrong, then there should be no shortage of people looking to hire him... and he will be better of himself... not having to deal with our restrictions.


No offense, and maybe this is symptomatic of the problem with the coaching profession....

but YOU aren't the people he needs to impress. He needs to impress US and/or casual fans and/or PAYING media (TV contracts). You're entitled to you opinion, but even if you are 100% accurate that we don't know anything... WE are part of the group that drives the game and the reason coaching pays 6 and 7 figures with guaranteed contracts and buy-outs.
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2016 12:50 PM by Hambone10.)
11-14-2016 12:43 PM
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Post: #30
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
I knew I would get killed.... I just think the game is more complex than a message board can explain.... Schematically? I don't like the Air Raid... Rice WR's lack the speed to beat man coverage... Stehling has faced a ton of zero safety man coverage... Hard for him to look good when there is no separation by the WR's... To the staff's credit, his rushing numbers have been pretty decent lately (especially against Charlotte) and that's likely a bi-product of the zero man defenses and the necessity to outnumber the box where the only way to do that is run your 11th guy (QB)... So yeah... the coach in me cringes at Air Raid with this skill group... But, they've made adjustments... All I'm trying to say is unless you're sure these other "candidates" bring something you haven't already seen, then give the man who brought the only conference title in four generations a chance to right the ship in a new building. The earlier poster that lamented how great Hatfield was is right. He was a really good coach and a great man. He was accomplished. But.... according to some "experts", the game had passed him by and it was time to go. I would just warn against letting that sentiment repeat itself again. The fact is, DB has been successful, and he's a great man. Just tap the breaks a little.
11-14-2016 04:16 PM
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Post: #31
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 12:43 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(11-14-2016 09:19 AM)allbig8 Wrote:  That's just my thoughts... It's pretty easy to coach from Row 36 at Rice Stadium.... And even easier to come on Parliament and talk about how "dumb" or "terrible" someone is.....

It's even easier to criticize Rice posters (most of whom know each other) from the mid west and talk about how 'uninformed' many of us are. I think a lot of us know a lot more about it than you seem to think... He's on the hot seat list for a reason.... and likely only 'where he is' (and not #1) because of the reasons you mention.

Of course one has to wonder why a Big 8 fan/former coach would suddenly come onto the Rice board to tout how uninformed we all are and what a great coach we have.... I suspect we know more about DB and his coaching acumen than you know about us.

If we're wrong, then there should be no shortage of people looking to hire him... and he will be better of himself... not having to deal with our restrictions.


No offense, and maybe this is symptomatic of the problem with the coaching profession....

but YOU aren't the people he needs to impress. He needs to impress US and/or casual fans and/or PAYING media (TV contracts). You're entitled to you opinion, but even if you are 100% accurate that we don't know anything... WE are part of the group that drives the game and the reason coaching pays 6 and 7 figures with guaranteed contracts and buy-outs.

Then pardon me.... maybe I'm stupid
11-14-2016 04:17 PM
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Post: #32
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
Here is the disconnect between Rice and 'the coaching fraternity'

The current model for advancement in the coaching fraternity is to do what everyone else does and be marginally better at it. David and his coaches may or may not be doing that. This wasn't the case in the 80's and 90's where the NFL was almost all 'pro-set' and college was a hodge-podge of everything

They can't 'coach better' enough to overcome our recruiting restrictions. Said differently, you can't coach the same thing that everyone else does and make your 6' 4.5 guy who was the 25th best in the state at his position (but perhaps the 15th best with an SAT over 1000) be able to 'beat' a 6'3 4.4 guy who was the 15th in the state (but perhaps the 10th best with an SAT below 1000).

David and company become better coaches by getting better players... which is why they succeeded when we had multiple NFL caliber WRs, DBs, DL and QB.... AND why they (Hermann) succeeded at Ohio State and now UH. They need TEs who can run faster than the defense's linebackers or jump higher than the defense's DBs or throw the ball through a moving tire 30 yards downfield... which is EXACTLY what you get at top 50 programs and in the NFL.

So withing the coaching fraternity, they may well be the 'up and comers' that everyone wants (we can avoid the obvious defense to that for the moment and just accept the 'premise' being put forth by some)... but they can't win consistently at Rice.

Essentially, we've got the NFL or other coaches at 'better' programs telling us what THEY want, and we're ignoring the fundamental difference between what we each get to work with.

We've heard coaches talk about having to simplify the schemes for our players. That implies that our players aren't smart. SMART is not the problem. The problem is that 'smart' doesn't help our QB consistently PUT the ball where he knows it needs to go, and/or our WR can't consistently get open enough by being smarter to allow him to succeed with where the QB CAN put the ball... because the schemes don't VALUE 'smarts'. We've all watched the pro caliber QBs 'thread the needle' and pro caliber WRs make unbelievable catches with one hand and a pro caliber DB all over them. THAT is what it takes when the talent levels are equal. What we see far more often here is a more talented (but perhaps less academically oriented) DB recover in time knock the ball away from WRs that got open for a moment, or fight through the block and 'make the tackle' in space on the bubble screen... Our opponents run the same plays and while SOMETIMES we also make the same play, more often we fail, and they get 3 (or 30) more yards than we did. And THAT is the difference between success and failure.

So we DO need to go outside the traditional coaching fraternity tree. Whether that is to Navy or RU or High School or whatever is a matter of debate and discussion... but the idea that we can somehow succeed at the EXACT same game WITHOUT putting superior resources forward while intentionally and with purpose hampering our recruiting is insanity

The 'red herring' of 'inferior' facilities is just that. I'm not saying it's not true... I'm saying it is what it is. Players don't care about the lines at the concession stands and making our stadium smaller is not happening. We didn't lose games because of bad showers and recruits for the past 2 years (at least) could have seen Patterson being built. 3 Years ago we won the conference Championship. Are you telling me we couldn't recruit to the CUSA conference championship because we were still 'talking' about fixing the showers but they hadn't been fixed yet? Charlotte was recruiting to their first ever year in FCS and an entire stadium complex that cost about what Patterson did.
11-14-2016 04:37 PM
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Post: #33
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 04:16 PM)allbig8 Wrote:  I knew I would get killed.... I just think the game is more complex than a message board can explain....
Killed? If you're a coach, your skin should be thicker.

Of course the game is more complex, which is why only knowing us from a message board, you can't possibly know what we do and don't know... yet you felt qualified to draw the conclusion that we didn't.

Quote:Schematically? I don't like the Air Raid... Rice WR's lack the speed to beat man coverage... Stehling has faced a ton of zero safety man coverage... Hard for him to look good when there is no separation by the WR's... To the staff's credit, his rushing numbers have been pretty decent lately (especially against Charlotte) and that's likely a bi-product of the zero man defenses and the necessity to outnumber the box where the only way to do that is run your 11th guy (QB)... So yeah... the coach in me cringes at Air Raid with this skill group... But, they've made adjustments... All I'm trying to say is unless you're sure these other "candidates" bring something you haven't already seen, then give the man who brought the only conference title in four generations a chance to right the ship in a new building. The earlier poster that lamented how great Hatfield was is right. He was a really good coach and a great man. He was accomplished. But.... according to some "experts", the game had passed him by and it was time to go. I would just warn against letting that sentiment repeat itself again. The fact is, DB has been successful, and he's a great man. Just tap the breaks a little.

This response begs a rather obvious question. Do you think Rice can consistently recruit players that can beat press man? Or a QB who can make up for that by being able to throw the ball through a keyhole and/or run for 100+ every game (and not get injured/worn out?)

I don't.

So maybe the solution is to run a different scheme.

Specifically WHAT adjustments are you talking about? Telling Stehling to run more? You think that's the answer? We're 10 years in with fundamentally the same scheme. One that even you admit doesn't fit the personnel. You think he's going to change now? I've long suggested that if he would, he could hire RU and they'd probably be unbeatable.

I've seen tweaks only through about 5 OCs. No changes in the schemes. Whether that is because Bailiff refuses or because this is essentially the only scheme that anyone runs anymore (which I believe) doesn't matter. It doesn't work for us. If I were a defense, I'd make Stehling run as well. No knock on Stehling... just that running QBs in the spread frequently get hammered.

If you can't get open against cover zero, then the ONLY way to have success against a defense is to turn your QB into a runner... Otherwise you're outnumbered in the box. 7 on 6. If Charlotte can stifle us, we have no prayer.

That's coaching 101... not some proof that these guys are world beaters.


(11-14-2016 04:17 PM)allbig8 Wrote:  Then pardon me.... maybe I'm stupid

I wouldn't know... but it certainly seems that you can dish out criticism, but not take it.
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2016 04:55 PM by Hambone10.)
11-14-2016 04:51 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 04:16 PM)allbig8 Wrote:  I knew I would get killed.... I just think the game is more complex than a message board can explain.... Schematically? I don't like the Air Raid... Rice WR's lack the speed to beat man coverage... Stehling has faced a ton of zero safety man coverage... Hard for him to look good when there is no separation by the WR's... To the staff's credit, his rushing numbers have been pretty decent lately (especially against Charlotte) and that's likely a bi-product of the zero man defenses and the necessity to outnumber the box where the only way to do that is run your 11th guy (QB)... So yeah... the coach in me cringes at Air Raid with this skill group... But, they've made adjustments... All I'm trying to say is unless you're sure these other "candidates" bring something you haven't already seen, then give the man who brought the only conference title in four generations a chance to right the ship in a new building. The earlier poster that lamented how great Hatfield was is right. He was a really good coach and a great man. He was accomplished. But.... according to some "experts", the game had passed him by and it was time to go. I would just warn against letting that sentiment repeat itself again. The fact is, DB has been successful, and he's a great man. Just tap the breaks a little.

How did we get onto the Air Raid? I for one am certainly not wedded to it. But my impression is that it depends much more on scheme and technique and execution than raw athletic skill, and that would not necessarily rule it out for this bunch. RUOwls is very much of the opinion that our WR problems with lack of separation are more technique and execution that raw skill. I also don't think our scheme is designed to make best use of what we have. Given how many capable running backs we seem to have right now, it would seem a slam dunk either to go to a more run-heavy attack or alternatively to see if some of those athletes could be more valuable plugging the hole at the back end of the secondary, without which we are pretty much dead meat, week in and week out.

You did not answer the question I posed, so I will ask it again. Do you really, seriously believe that David Bailiff gets the maximum out of the players that he has? I don't, and I don't by a long shot, but I'm willing to explore another point of view on the matter.

On both sides of the ball, I don't see us doing much that is schematically different from what everybody around us is trying to do. Yeah, not everybody runs a 4-2-5 defense, but the way we run it seems to be a lot more doing what everybody else does, just out of possibly a somewhat different pre snap look, whereas if you look at TCU they are doing some things that are radically different. Rather than some sort of unique or contrarian scheme that presents preparation issues for opponents, we seem content just to line up and do what everybody else does, and when we out-athlete you we can win and when we don't we can't. That seems to me to be a horrible approach to try at a place like Rice, where we have some self-imposed limitations that aren't going to allow us to out-athlete opponents at any level with any consistency.

If you see something different going on, I would appreciate your commenting about it. But that's what I see, and I don't think that's ever going to deliver what we want.

Bum Philips said there are two ways for a football team to get better--get better players or get the players you have to play better. Bailiff's approach, and the comments of those who support him, seem to be totally on the side of getting better players as the solution to our problem. I actually think we'e done that, and I would hope the EZF lets us do even more. But I don't think we're going to win without doing some of the getting the players we have to play better. And I just don't see that happening. Play hard, but sloppy execution and lots of unforced mental errors, seems to be the mantra of David Bailiff coached teams. And I don't think that will ever get it done at Rice.
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2016 05:28 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
11-14-2016 05:01 PM
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Post: #35
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 05:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  we seem content to just line up and do what everybody else does, and when we out-athlete you we can win and when we don't we can't.

This is precisely how the conference title came about. It's not a coincidence that we won CUSA-Ultra-Lite immediately after it was neutered, when we had the advantage of already being established; it's also not a coincidence that just a couple years in, we've been overtaken by the hungry newcomers that have gotten up to speed.

The conference title is nice, but it is overvalued. We need someone who can compete no matter the surroundings, no matter the circumstances (within reason; still, I think a coach making $800,000 at any level should be expected to put a predominantly competitive product on the field).

Bailiff is quite clearly not our guy; I contend that he never was. And our program is now at an all-time low. That is not an overstatement. So a change is long overdue.
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2016 05:18 PM by Wiessman.)
11-14-2016 05:16 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 04:51 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(11-14-2016 04:16 PM)allbig8 Wrote:  I knew I would get killed.... I just think the game is more complex than a message board can explain....
Killed? If you're a coach, your skin should be thicker.
Of course the game is more complex, which is why only knowing us from a message board, you can't possibly know what we do and don't know... yet you felt qualified to draw the conclusion that we didn't.
Quote:Schematically? I don't like the Air Raid... Rice WR's lack the speed to beat man coverage... Stehling has faced a ton of zero safety man coverage... Hard for him to look good when there is no separation by the WR's... To the staff's credit, his rushing numbers have been pretty decent lately (especially against Charlotte) and that's likely a bi-product of the zero man defenses and the necessity to outnumber the box where the only way to do that is run your 11th guy (QB)... So yeah... the coach in me cringes at Air Raid with this skill group... But, they've made adjustments... All I'm trying to say is unless you're sure these other "candidates" bring something you haven't already seen, then give the man who brought the only conference title in four generations a chance to right the ship in a new building. The earlier poster that lamented how great Hatfield was is right. He was a really good coach and a great man. He was accomplished. But.... according to some "experts", the game had passed him by and it was time to go. I would just warn against letting that sentiment repeat itself again. The fact is, DB has been successful, and he's a great man. Just tap the breaks a little.
This response begs a rather obvious question. Do you think Rice can consistently recruit players that can beat press man? Or a QB who can make up for that by being able to throw the ball through a keyhole and/or run for 100+ every game (and not get injured/worn out?)
I don't.
So maybe the solution is to run a different scheme.
Specifically WHAT adjustments are you talking about? Telling Stehling to run more? You think that's the answer? We're 10 years in with fundamentally the same scheme. One that even you admit doesn't fit the personnel. You think he's going to change now? I've long suggested that if he would, he could hire RU and they'd probably be unbeatable.
I've seen tweaks only through about 5 OCs. No changes in the schemes. Whether that is because Bailiff refuses or because this is essentially the only scheme that anyone runs anymore (which I believe) doesn't matter. It doesn't work for us. If I were a defense, I'd make Stehling run as well. No knock on Stehling... just that running QBs in the spread frequently get hammered.
If you can't get open against cover zero, then the ONLY way to have success against a defense is to turn your QB into a runner... Otherwise you're outnumbered in the box. 7 on 6. If Charlotte can stifle us, we have no prayer.
That's coaching 101... not some proof that these guys are world beaters.
(11-14-2016 04:17 PM)allbig8 Wrote:  Then pardon me.... maybe I'm stupid
I wouldn't know... but it certainly seems that you can dish out criticism, but not take it.

Spot on. If all we are going to do is line up and do what everybody else does, then whoever has the best athletes is going to win 80% of the time. And probably pretty close to 80% of the time, that's not going to be us. So following that approach, we should lose about 60% of the time. And that's pretty close to what we have done under David Bailiff. We need schemes that leverage the best talents we have, and our schemes don't do that. Then we need to execute them perfectly, and we don't do that. And we need to eliminate mental errors and kicking game mistakes, and we don't do that. We probably need to turn the kicking game around and use it as a weapon to win games, and we sure as heck don't do that.

As for our WR's lacking the speed to beat man coverage, so did RU--but he beat it anyway. There are things that can be taught to make you better. I don't think we are teaching them.
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2016 05:25 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
11-14-2016 05:24 PM
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At Ease Offline
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Post: #37
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 04:16 PM)allbig8 Wrote:  The earlier poster that lamented how great Hatfield was is right. He was a really good coach and a great man. He was accomplished. But.... according to some "experts", the game had passed him by and it was time to go. I would just warn against letting that sentiment repeat itself again.

Yes, those "experts" really looked like fools in 2006.
11-14-2016 05:36 PM
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Post: #38
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 05:24 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  As for our WR's lacking the speed to beat man coverage, so did RU--but he beat it anyway. There are things that can be taught to make you better. I don't think we are teaching them.

and he did it using 5 different QBs because of injuries... and against at least 6 DBs who went to the NFL. If anyone thinks our 5th team QB in the 1980's was more accurate than our 2nd teamer in 2016, they're crazy (I know nobody does).

But it just further demonstrates that schemes can minimize the impact of such deficiencies.

Navy's QB isn't very accurate either by most standards, but his WRs don't generally get open enough to catch them anyway because of their skills, but because of the scheme.
11-14-2016 06:03 PM
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Post: #39
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 05:36 PM)At Ease Wrote:  
(11-14-2016 04:16 PM)allbig8 Wrote:  The earlier poster that lamented how great Hatfield was is right. He was a really good coach and a great man. He was accomplished. But.... according to some "experts", the game had passed him by and it was time to go. I would just warn against letting that sentiment repeat itself again.
Yes, those "experts" really looked like fools in 2006.

That scheme of his that the experts thought had been passed by has served Navy pretty well for the last few decades. They scored 60-something on us a few years back, and they weren't doing it with athletes that were better than ours. And Air Force and Army at times as well. Army sure blew us out with it this year.

Hatfield's problem was that his teams quit playing defense. In the game that was probably the beginning of the end for him, that antiquated offense scored 63--but the defense let in 70. If Hatfield's latter teams had played defense, they would have been okay.
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2016 06:08 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
11-14-2016 06:07 PM
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Post: #40
RE: "David Bailiff deserves another season at Rice"
(11-14-2016 06:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-14-2016 05:36 PM)At Ease Wrote:  
(11-14-2016 04:16 PM)allbig8 Wrote:  The earlier poster that lamented how great Hatfield was is right. He was a really good coach and a great man. He was accomplished. But.... according to some "experts", the game had passed him by and it was time to go. I would just warn against letting that sentiment repeat itself again.
Yes, those "experts" really looked like fools in 2006.

That scheme of his that the experts thought had been passed by has served Navy pretty well for the last few decades. They scored 60-something on us a few years back, and they weren't doing it with athletes that were better than ours. And Air Force and Army at times as well. Army sure blew us out with it this year.

Hatfield's problem was that his teams quit playing defense. In the game that was probably the beginning of the end for him, that antiquated offense scored 63--but the defense let in 70. If Hatfield's latter teams had played defense, they would have been okay.

If Ken hadn't lost Wally Ake in 1997 it might have continued to be a good ride. Ake's 1994 defense ranked in the Top 25 in four categories. The '94 defense was the best I had seen at Rice since the Neely era. The three consecutive games against Tech, UT, and A&M (especially A&M) were tremendous.
11-14-2016 06:48 PM
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