(11-11-2016 08:09 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

Trying to rig the system there Tommy?

Of course. His argument is as transparent as glass.

(11-10-2016 10:15 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Why does it have to be Black?

...and there goes his reason for wanting this. Transparent as glass.

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

The black population of Virginia is about 20%. The black population of the areas that Smitty would generously give to the new DC is about 10%. We as Virginians would be happy to lose the areas because of their political color and not because of their skin tone.

(11-11-2016 10:10 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

The black population of Virginia is about 20%. The black population of the areas that Smitty would generously give to the new DC is about 10%. We as Virginians would be happy to lose the areas because of their political color and not because of their skin tone.

The whole point of DC statehood is to give the 40 million African Americans one state where they can actually choose a candidate for the Senate....

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

DC already isn't majority black. Young professionals have been rapidly shifting the demographics of that city.

(11-11-2016 10:15 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

DC already isn't majority black. Young professionals have been rapidly shifting the demographics of that city.

The state of New Columbia would have an African American plurality and possibly a voting majority (much of the white population is transitory).

(11-11-2016 10:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:10 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

The black population of Virginia is about 20%. The black population of the areas that Smitty would generously give to the new DC is about 10%. We as Virginians would be happy to lose the areas because of their political color and not because of their skin tone.

The whole point of DC statehood is to give the 40 million African Americans one state where they can actually choose a candidate for the Senate....

So you are for segregation then? Interesting.

(11-11-2016 10:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:10 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

The black population of Virginia is about 20%. The black population of the areas that Smitty would generously give to the new DC is about 10%. We as Virginians would be happy to lose the areas because of their political color and not because of their skin tone.

The whole point of DC statehood is to give the 40 million African Americans one state where they can actually choose a candidate for the Senate....

I'm sorry, I didn't know that african americans were prohibited from voting for senators in any of the current 50 states.

(11-11-2016 10:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:10 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

The black population of Virginia is about 20%. The black population of the areas that Smitty would generously give to the new DC is about 10%. We as Virginians would be happy to lose the areas because of their political color and not because of their skin tone.

The whole point of DC statehood is to give the 40 million African Americans one state where they can actually choose a candidate for the Senate....

Well if DC is not fcked up enough...cramming them all into this 10 mile area will do it.

(11-11-2016 10:18 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:10 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

The black population of Virginia is about 20%. The black population of the areas that Smitty would generously give to the new DC is about 10%. We as Virginians would be happy to lose the areas because of their political color and not because of their skin tone.

The whole point of DC statehood is to give the 40 million African Americans one state where they can actually choose a candidate for the Senate....

I'm sorry, I didn't know that african americans were prohibited from voting for senators in any of the current 50 states.

Voter suppression stops them at every turn...man.

(11-11-2016 10:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:10 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

The black population of Virginia is about 20%. The black population of the areas that Smitty would generously give to the new DC is about 10%. We as Virginians would be happy to lose the areas because of their political color and not because of their skin tone.

The whole point of DC statehood is to give the 40 million African Americans one state where they can actually choose a candidate for the Senate....

Oh yeah I forgot. 40 millions blacks, all cloned from the same DNA. Looking alike, acting alike, thinking alike. The view that liberals have of every group. Could that view be any more insulting?

(11-11-2016 10:33 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:10 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

The black population of Virginia is about 20%. The black population of the areas that Smitty would generously give to the new DC is about 10%. We as Virginians would be happy to lose the areas because of their political color and not because of their skin tone.

The whole point of DC statehood is to give the 40 million African Americans one state where they can actually choose a candidate for the Senate....

Oh yeah I forgot. 40 millions blacks, all cloned from the same DNA. Looking alike, acting alike, thinking alike. The view that liberals have of every group. Could that view be any more insulting?

Actually, I'm fine with them voting how the wish,,,,,but I'd give them a vote.

The GOP's goal is to prevent them from voting or to dilute their vote.

(11-11-2016 10:46 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:33 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:10 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  but then it wouldn't be Black.

The black population of Virginia is about 20%. The black population of the areas that Smitty would generously give to the new DC is about 10%. We as Virginians would be happy to lose the areas because of their political color and not because of their skin tone.

The whole point of DC statehood is to give the 40 million African Americans one state where they can actually choose a candidate for the Senate....

Oh yeah I forgot. 40 millions blacks, all cloned from the same DNA. Looking alike, acting alike, thinking alike. The view that liberals have of every group. Could that view be any more insulting?

Actually, I'm fine with them voting how the wish,,,,,but I'd give them a vote.

The GOP's goal is to prevent them from voting or to dilute their vote.

That's right! They weren't in the right plantat...............states! Got to nullify that there E---lect----toe----re----all Coo----ledge so our slav........black voters can vote for their favorite slave mast.............Democrat.

(11-11-2016 10:33 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:10 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

The black population of Virginia is about 20%. The black population of the areas that Smitty would generously give to the new DC is about 10%. We as Virginians would be happy to lose the areas because of their political color and not because of their skin tone.

The whole point of DC statehood is to give the 40 million African Americans one state where they can actually choose a candidate for the Senate....

Oh yeah I forgot. 40 millions blacks, all cloned from the same DNA. Looking alike, acting alike, thinking alike. The view that liberals have of every group. Could that view be any more insulting?

Amen, sister!

Tom,
You are a day late & a dollar short with that. Ole Abe Lincoln , the great emancipator wanted the Blacks to go to Liberia.

(11-10-2016 04:41 PM)john01992 Wrote:  That reason being in the 1790s no one could have imagined DC would turn into one of the biggest cities in the nation.

Well yeah, since it was designed as essentially a 'park' to house the government (museums, monuments, embassies etc) and not a residential neighborhood, and they certainly didn't imagine that the government would grow to be as massive as it is.

I don't understand why it is 'impossible' to cede the residential portions back to Maryland, since we did precisely that for Alexandria, Va. If you mean impractical, okay.

The problem is that the district does not support itself. It is supported by the Federal government through taxes on the entire nation to a degree that no other area is... Water, Sewers, Police, even hospitals etc etc. To make it its own state would require eliminating this. I have no idea how you'd do that in a fair manner. Sure, you could just ignore all that... but I suspect few other states would support THAT state getting such special treatment.

(11-10-2016 04:45 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Hammy. there was no such thing as a popular vote when the EC was made. play around with google. learn. educate yourself.

And more personal insults.

Here is the post I wrote you're responding to, edited so you can follow. You MIGHT try Montessori, since traditional education isn't helping you

(11-10-2016 03:59 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  There IS no popular vote for Congress OR the President, and this repeated claim that there is is ludicrous.


There most certainly was the exact same popular vote as there is now, which is to say that [b]there isn't a popular vote and never has been. [b]

There wasn't a popular vote when the EC was made, and there still isn't one today.

Clearly I'm not the one you need to be educating on the subject.

(11-11-2016 10:17 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:14 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-11-2016 10:10 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:10 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 10:04 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I'd favor DC as a state if:

Virginia: it annexed Fairfax, Arlington, and ALexandria
Maryland: it annexed Prince Georges and Montgomery counties.

Virginia would be the Red state it truly is and Maryland would have a chance for it's population to be properly represented.

but then it wouldn't be Black.

The black population of Virginia is about 20%. The black population of the areas that Smitty would generously give to the new DC is about 10%. We as Virginians would be happy to lose the areas because of their political color and not because of their skin tone.

The whole point of DC statehood is to give the 40 million African Americans one state where they can actually choose a candidate for the Senate....

So you are for segregation then? Interesting.

yeah... because that works so well in the OTHER large cities.

We'd also have to pass a law saying whites could never move in... because if DC became a state with all of the support it gets from the rest of the country for infrastructure, but also it's own governance, it would be a place that wealthy people wanted to live.

40mm black people all living in one state? I think the Klan would be all in favor of your proposal Tom... If that isn't what you mean (and I'm sure you don't) then your 'give the 40 million African Americans one state where they can actually choose a candidate for the Senate' is pure folly.

(11-11-2016 12:17 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 04:41 PM)john01992 Wrote:  That reason being in the 1790s no one could have imagined DC would turn into one of the biggest cities in the nation.

Well yeah, since it was designed as essentially a 'park' to house the government (museums, monuments, embassies etc) and not a residential neighborhood, and they certainly didn't imagine that the government would grow to be as massive as it is.

I don't understand why it is 'impossible' to cede the residential portions back to Maryland, since we did precisely that for Alexandria, Va. If you mean impractical, okay.

The problem is that the district does not support itself. It is supported by the Federal government through taxes on the entire nation to a degree that no other area is... Water, Sewers, Police, even hospitals etc etc. To make it its own state would require eliminating this. I have no idea how you'd do that in a fair manner. Sure, you could just ignore all that... but I suspect few other states would support THAT state getting such special treatment.

(11-10-2016 04:45 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Hammy. there was no such thing as a popular vote when the EC was made. play around with google. learn. educate yourself.

And more personal insults.

Here is the post I wrote you're responding to, edited so you can follow. You MIGHT try Montessori, since traditional education isn't helping you

(11-10-2016 03:59 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  There IS no popular vote for Congress OR the President, and this repeated claim that there is is ludicrous.


There most certainly was the exact same popular vote as there is now, which is to say that [b]there isn't a popular vote and never has been. [b]

There wasn't a popular vote when the EC was made, and there still isn't one today.

Clearly I'm not the one you need to be educating on the subject.

Hammy now you are just being a prick. I was clearly talking about the concept of the popular vote as a way to determine who wins a state's EC votes. not a direct popular vote for president. back in the day the state legislators not the general public casted votes for president and also selected their senators that way. The 17th amendment ended the process of that for senators and newly created states seeking to encourage settlement switched to the popular vote to determine their EC votes. South Carolina was the last state to end the practice and did so after the civil war. After the civil war new states offered women's suffrage for the same reason.

very obvious that is what I was talking about. What the **** were you thinking when I was mentioning the EC and PV synonymously?

as mentioned repeatedly in this thread, there are three constitutional issues with retrocession that would need either the SCOTUS to rule on or a constitutional amendment. One of the issues is that when VA did it, it was never ruled constitutional. no one really challenged the constitutionality of it. So just because VA did it 180 years ago doesn't mean MD would have no problem. and you forget that when VA did it, there wasn't a 23rd amendment.

The point of the argument is that retrocession may be possible, however it is a far more complex process than granting DC statehood which is the complete opposite of what the cons are arguing on here.

Wow, this thread blew up. Glad people are having discussion about this.

Forgive me, I didn't read all ~140 posts.


One thing I noticed from the first few pages (stopped after that) was a very odd sentiment that seems to be the consensus: a city of 670k people does not deserve two senators, but a state of 670k people does. So by definition, deserving senators has nothing to do with population, it would seem.

Falls right in line with my pet project as of this week: if every American receives the same vote, how can we marginalize a group of voters simply because they decided to live close together instead of living spread apart??

(11-11-2016 01:57 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Wow, this thread blew up. Glad people are having discussion about this.

Forgive me, I didn't read all ~140 posts.


One thing I noticed from the first few pages (stopped after that) was a very odd sentiment that seems to be the consensus: a city of 670k people does not deserve two senators, but a state of 670k people does. So by definition, deserving senators has nothing to do with population, it would seem.

There is a difference between being a city and being a state. Though Delaware and Rhode Island get pretty close to blurring that line. Cities don't deserve to become states because of the amount of people in them, and if they did there's about 20 other cities that qualify for Statehood based on population before DC gets a sniff. If Maryland is willing they can share their Senators with DC. This all is based on the folly that Senators were meant to represent people directly, they are not. They represent the interests of their respective states. The House is based on representing people and the areas they live in. To change this would require amending the Constitution to allow for proportional allocation of Senators.

(11-11-2016 01:57 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Falls right in line with my pet project as of this week: if every American receives the same vote, how can we marginalize a group of voters simply because they decided to live close together instead of living spread apart??

This is based on another folly. That there is such a thing as a unified voting law for the entire nation. We are United States citizens because we are citizens of our respective states first. Every citizen has the right to have an equal vote, within their state. Since we also do not have a national popular vote election (another folly), then there is only the guarantee that your vote in you state has the same weight as a vote in another state BUT ONLY WITHIN THESE RESPECTIVE STATES.

The option we all have at our fingertips to correct this is the ability to move to a state where the weight of my vote will matter more.