(10-30-2016 11:52 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 08:54 PM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  If you're score 30, you should be in the game. We. Cannot. Stop. The. Run. Have we ever given up so many rushing yards in back to back games?

I'd never pass against Memphis.

yep

A lot of our fans really know basketball, but they don't understand football well yet.

If you think 30 points should win every game, you don't know football ... for the last 10 years at least. Look at the scores in our league and of top 25 games. 30 points each game will put you an average team .500 at best .

Alabama has allowed 30 or more points in 25% of their games this year, so has Clemson, and Clemson allowed Troy to score 24!

(10-31-2016 02:33 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 01:16 AM)21-17 Best Time I Ever Ha Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 11:52 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 08:54 PM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  If you're score 30, you should be in the game. We. Cannot. Stop. The. Run. Have we ever given up so many rushing yards in back to back games?

I'd never pass against Memphis.

yep

A lot of our fans really know basketball, but they don't understand football well yet.

Just in case you were referring to me, I learned from my dad and grandad in Crump Stadium, beginning in 1962. And I never even attended a college bb game until the 1990's, although I did play girls' bb in high school.

I just assumed it went without saying that I was referring to the majority, not every single person.

I myslef and a long time tiger fan and understand the complexities of football better than basketball, so obviously I'm not referring to every single person.

Its been clear to me since last year though that many of our fans are causal football fans still learning the game though.

It just screams that its a bunch of lifelong BB fans starting to get into the football program now. A lot of comments and discussions are from a basketball perspective more than football.

We give up 60 points and 400 yards rushing and people are talking about "offensive tempo". That is as perfect example as you can have.

Its not meant as a personal attack on anyone, just a really blunt observation.

I do not think you are quite has football savvy as you seem to think considering you seem to believe offense has no influence on defense and vice versa. How many times did our offense give Tulsa the ball with less than 20 yards to score? How many turnovers did the offense have that prematurely put the defense on the field? How many drives did we have that resulted in essentially no rest for the defense? Do you believe it is deflating for the defense to spend significantly more time on the field than the offense? Do you believe in a compounding effect since our bye week was week 2? It is funny you talk about your vast knowledge but approach the game in such a mutually exclusive way between offense and defense, as if each happens in a vacuum. And again, I was not really trying to blame the offense for the defense or the lose, it was really just a discussion about our tempo in general and if it would help either side or both sides for us to slow down a bit at times. Feel free to start a thread on how to solve the defensive problems given your vast understanding of the complexities of the game...

Time of possession for each game;
SEMO 32 - Tigers 28
Kansas 31 - Tigers 29
BGSU 28 - Tigers 32, Only 4 minutes more despite a 77-3 score
Ole Miss 32 - Tigers 28
Temple 38 - Tigers 22
Tulane 32 - Tigers 28
Navy 39 - Tigers 21
Tulsa 33 - Tigers 27

Even in the games we are winning decidedly we are losing in time of possession. I think it is catching up to the defense. I think it is also hampering our ability to consistently sustain drives. Even if those drives to do end up in points, it at least lets our defense rest a bit and as bad as our defense has been, we need them off the field as much as possible.

(10-30-2016 11:46 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 08:54 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 06:22 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

Dude, step away from your black and white world. Never did I blame the lose squarely on the offense. It is just simply a discussion about the offense. However, the offensive speed can clearly impact the defense. We did not give our D any rest on close to 10 possessions and gave Tulsa the ball in easy scoring range multiple times.

The D was terrible. What is your plan to fix it? It seems like some of our offensive problems could be fixed by occasionally slowing down and taking and letting ourselves breathe.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

"Dude", I'm not the one who needs to step back here.

Its embarrassing to hear people talking about offense tempo when you give up 60 points and nearly 400 yards rushing.

If we had given up 300 rushing yards in the 4th quarter, you might have a point, but we get run over the entire game. Its not a problem of stamina or rest.

You simply don't get it.

You boast about how you understand "complexities" yet you keep falling back on a simplistic stat (total yards) as your barometer of success.

(10-31-2016 08:28 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  You simply don't get it.

You boast about how you understand "complexities" yet you keep falling back on a simplistic stat (total yards) as your barometer of success.

60 points and nearly 400 yards rushing is about as simple as it gets.

Its not about offensive tempo at all. Just doesn't matter how hard people try to split hairs or argue it into the ground, its just not the case.

Its about the defense and its not something you can scheme away mid season, particularity when your offensive line is this bad. The defensive players will either step it up or collapse even further (if that's even possible)

Not much else needs to be said.

The cannibalization of the fanbase has begun

(10-29-2016 11:26 PM)DallasTiger Wrote:  I know a lot of passes appear to be high and hard to catch. Of course some of our receivers seem to be having problems catching even well thrown ones.

I'd say about 50/50. When he learns how to control the velocity of his tosses some of that will go away.

(10-31-2016 07:36 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 11:52 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 08:54 PM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  If you're score 30, you should be in the game. We. Cannot. Stop. The. Run. Have we ever given up so many rushing yards in back to back games?

I'd never pass against Memphis.

yep

A lot of our fans really know basketball, but they don't understand football well yet.

If you think 30 points should win every game, you don't know football ... for the last 10 years at least. Look at the scores in our league and of top 25 games. 30 points each game will put you aren't .500 at best .

Alabama has allowed 30 or more points in 25% of their games this year, so has Clemson, and Clemson allowed Troy to score 24!

When you read words, try not to change them in your head. "Be in the game"~"win every game"

I will say a fast tempo offense and a D that gets run over from opening kickoff is a terrible combo. Teams can run for days on us while chewing clock. An already poor run D gets worse as the game goes on and they tire.

We miss White.

Early bye week is killing us right now.

Offense not being able to stay on the field is aggravating the issue.

Lots of issues, all are of equal importance.

I really couldn't care less about how many yards we give up.

(11-01-2016 05:52 PM)madtiger Wrote:  We miss White.

Early bye week is killing us right now.

Offense not being able to stay on the field is aggravating the issue.

Lots of issues, all are of equal importance.

I really couldn't care less about how many yards we give up.

Losing White has definitely seemed to hurt an already poor rushing defense.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

Got to slow it down because the defense can't stop the run or pass.We need a Dude who can bust it up the gut on defense

The defense is tied crap is crap....

You don't get tired if you get stops...if you allow teams to be very successful running the ball you are not going to get off the field I don't care how slow you run the offense.

(10-30-2016 01:48 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 08:54 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 03:38 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  lol

We give up 60 points & 362 yards rushing and people think the problem is the offense.

We truly are a basketball fan base who is brand new to this football thing.

The OP's first statement: - If we do not pick up a first down our defense gets essentially no rest. rings a lot of truth.

Here is the time of possession on series where Memphis had to punt or turnover:

Drive & Time
#1 & 1:04
#3 & 1:37
#4 & 1:07
#6 & 1:23

2nd Half
#2 & 0:45
#3 & 1:34
#5 & 2:19
#6 & 0:09

Something that some fast tempo coaches use that can also kill the clock to either secure lead or to give the D a rest is have the offense rush to line of scrimmage after every play (so defense can't substitute) and still work the clock under 5-10 secs before snapping the ball.

Reading is tough for some. Thanks for pulling actual drive times. That really is rough on the defense, I did not realize the first 4 drives were so short.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

You do realize that drive times dont really tell how fast you are playing...3 incomplete passes equals the same ammount of time off the clock whether you snap the ball with 20 or 1 second on the clock.

The time of possession statistic is one way to look at it. Keep in mind Memphis's strong special teams could arguably add to the other team's TOP. Another is a yards-per-play comparison between Memphis and it's competition, especially in games of similar quality opponents, such as Tulane, Tulsa, and Temple (SEMO and BG may skew the numbers).

What is the comparison of yards-per-play in those games? if Memphis' YPP is higher than the competition than Norvell is right to want to go faster so he can get more offensive plays per game. Even if the defense is getting run over it's the matchup the Tigers want.
If it's lower, however, he might need to think about slowing down, or otherwise somehow increasing the efficiency of the plays. Going faster in that scenario works against them.

(11-01-2016 10:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 01:48 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 08:54 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 03:38 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  lol

We give up 60 points & 362 yards rushing and people think the problem is the offense.

We truly are a basketball fan base who is brand new to this football thing.

The OP's first statement: - If we do not pick up a first down our defense gets essentially no rest. rings a lot of truth.

Here is the time of possession on series where Memphis had to punt or turnover:

Drive & Time
#1 & 1:04
#3 & 1:37
#4 & 1:07
#6 & 1:23

2nd Half
#2 & 0:45
#3 & 1:34
#5 & 2:19
#6 & 0:09

Something that some fast tempo coaches use that can also kill the clock to either secure lead or to give the D a rest is have the offense rush to line of scrimmage after every play (so defense can't substitute) and still work the clock under 5-10 secs before snapping the ball.

Reading is tough for some. Thanks for pulling actual drive times. That really is rough on the defense, I did not realize the first 4 drives were so short.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

You do realize that drive times dont really tell how fast you are playing...3 incomplete passes equals the same ammount of time off the clock whether you snap the ball with 20 or 1 second on the clock.

I guess if you operate under the assumption all 3 and out drives are 3 incomplete passes then you would be correct. However, that is rarely the case... Drive time and time of possession are clear indications of how fast an offense is operating. There is another post where I pulled time of possession for games and we have only had one game where we lead in time of possession. As I pointed out the one game we lead in time of possession we only the ball for 3 or 4 more minutes than the opponent despite the score being 77-3

(11-02-2016 07:53 AM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 10:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 01:48 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 08:54 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 03:38 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  lol

We give up 60 points & 362 yards rushing and people think the problem is the offense.

We truly are a basketball fan base who is brand new to this football thing.

The OP's first statement: - If we do not pick up a first down our defense gets essentially no rest. rings a lot of truth.

Here is the time of possession on series where Memphis had to punt or turnover:

Drive & Time
#1 & 1:04
#3 & 1:37
#4 & 1:07
#6 & 1:23

2nd Half
#2 & 0:45
#3 & 1:34
#5 & 2:19
#6 & 0:09

Something that some fast tempo coaches use that can also kill the clock to either secure lead or to give the D a rest is have the offense rush to line of scrimmage after every play (so defense can't substitute) and still work the clock under 5-10 secs before snapping the ball.

Reading is tough for some. Thanks for pulling actual drive times. That really is rough on the defense, I did not realize the first 4 drives were so short.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

You do realize that drive times dont really tell how fast you are playing...3 incomplete passes equals the same ammount of time off the clock whether you snap the ball with 20 or 1 second on the clock.

I guess if you operate under the assumption all 3 and out drives are 3 incomplete passes then you would be correct. However, that is rarely the case... Drive time and time of possession are clear indications of how fast an offense is operating. There is another post where I pulled time of possession for games and we have only had one game where we lead in time of possession. As I pointed out the one game we lead in time of possession we only the ball for 3 or 4 more minutes than the opponent despite the score being 77-3

When you are scoring on big plays, defense scoring TDs and scoring on special teams your Time of possession tends to be low as well.

And yes they can be indications but also not a smoking gun...Tulsa plays just as fast as us...Why did they win the time of possession battle...Because they got first downs and were able to run the ball at will.

Tulsa First Half Drives...Shouldn't their defense have been tired as well?

#2 1:03
#3 1:55
#4 :40
#6 1:23
#7 :27
#9 :50

Essentially the only reason Tulsa won the TOP battle is because on one drive where they were trying to drain the clock we allowed them to score a TD by running the ball 10 out of 11 times on one drive scoring a TD and the one pass was complete.

(11-02-2016 08:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 07:53 AM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 10:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 01:48 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 08:54 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  The OP's first statement: - If we do not pick up a first down our defense gets essentially no rest. rings a lot of truth.

Here is the time of possession on series where Memphis had to punt or turnover:

Drive & Time
#1 & 1:04
#3 & 1:37
#4 & 1:07
#6 & 1:23

2nd Half
#2 & 0:45
#3 & 1:34
#5 & 2:19
#6 & 0:09

Something that some fast tempo coaches use that can also kill the clock to either secure lead or to give the D a rest is have the offense rush to line of scrimmage after every play (so defense can't substitute) and still work the clock under 5-10 secs before snapping the ball.

Reading is tough for some. Thanks for pulling actual drive times. That really is rough on the defense, I did not realize the first 4 drives were so short.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

You do realize that drive times dont really tell how fast you are playing...3 incomplete passes equals the same ammount of time off the clock whether you snap the ball with 20 or 1 second on the clock.

I guess if you operate under the assumption all 3 and out drives are 3 incomplete passes then you would be correct. However, that is rarely the case... Drive time and time of possession are clear indications of how fast an offense is operating. There is another post where I pulled time of possession for games and we have only had one game where we lead in time of possession. As I pointed out the one game we lead in time of possession we only the ball for 3 or 4 more minutes than the opponent despite the score being 77-3

When you are scoring on big plays, defense scoring TDs and scoring on special teams your Time of possession tends to be low as well.

And yes they can be indications but also not a smoking gun...Tulsa plays just as fast as us...Why did they win the time of possession battle...Because they got first downs and were able to run the ball at will.

Tulsa First Half Drives...Shouldn't their defense have been tired as well?

#2 1:03
#3 1:55
#4 :40
#6 1:23
#7 :27
#9 :50

Essentially the only reason Tulsa won the TOP battle is because on one drive where they were trying to drain the clock we allowed them to score a TD by running the ball 10 out of 11 times on one drive scoring a TD and the one pass was complete.

Actually that is not correct. Most of Tulsa's possessions were longer than ours because Tulsa sustained their drives resulting in scores. I recognize that Tulsa plays fast, even faster that us but Tulsa led in TOP from the opening kickoff. TOP is posted at the bottom of the scoreboard for all to see. And after 2 extended Tulsa drives that resulted in scores to open the game, Tulsa led in TOP by a substantial margin. Our issues were a series of unsuccessful drives of short duration. Only a 4th qtr Memphis drive that included a lot of ground work evened up the rushing totals & provided some TOP balance.

(11-02-2016 09:24 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 08:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 07:53 AM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 10:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 01:48 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  Reading is tough for some. Thanks for pulling actual drive times. That really is rough on the defense, I did not realize the first 4 drives were so short.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

You do realize that drive times dont really tell how fast you are playing...3 incomplete passes equals the same ammount of time off the clock whether you snap the ball with 20 or 1 second on the clock.

I guess if you operate under the assumption all 3 and out drives are 3 incomplete passes then you would be correct. However, that is rarely the case... Drive time and time of possession are clear indications of how fast an offense is operating. There is another post where I pulled time of possession for games and we have only had one game where we lead in time of possession. As I pointed out the one game we lead in time of possession we only the ball for 3 or 4 more minutes than the opponent despite the score being 77-3

When you are scoring on big plays, defense scoring TDs and scoring on special teams your Time of possession tends to be low as well.

And yes they can be indications but also not a smoking gun...Tulsa plays just as fast as us...Why did they win the time of possession battle...Because they got first downs and were able to run the ball at will.

Tulsa First Half Drives...Shouldn't their defense have been tired as well?

#2 1:03
#3 1:55
#4 :40
#6 1:23
#7 :27
#9 :50

Essentially the only reason Tulsa won the TOP battle is because on one drive where they were trying to drain the clock we allowed them to score a TD by running the ball 10 out of 11 times on one drive scoring a TD and the one pass was complete.

Actually that is not correct. Most of Tulsa's possessions were longer than ours because Tulsa sustained their drives resulting in scores. I recognize that Tulsa plays fast, even faster that us but Tulsa led in TOP from the opening kickoff. TOP is posted at the bottom of the scoreboard for all to see. And after 2 extended Tulsa drives that resulted in scores to open the game, Tulsa led in TOP by a substantial margin. Our issues were a series of unsuccessful drives of short duration. Only a 4th qtr Memphis drive that included a lot of ground work evened up the rushing totals & provided some TOP balance.

Tulsa had 3 drives entirely in the 4th quarter that totalled over 9 minutes and on one drive they rushed for 82 yards so unless we played an 18 minute fourth quarter we did not balance the TOP battle it actually got worst 9 minutes to 6 in the fourth.

Defenses get tired when they cannot get stops not because their offense plays fast. Our offensive issue is not pace it is discipline and we make too many mistakes to sustain a drive so we normally have to score on big plays.

(10-29-2016 11:26 PM)DallasTiger Wrote:  I know a lot of passes appear to be high and hard to catch. Of course some of our receivers seem to be having problems catching even well thrown ones.

Also hard to get your feet set and pass accurately when you are constantly harassed and running for your life.

(11-02-2016 09:31 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 09:24 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 08:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 07:53 AM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 10:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  You do realize that drive times dont really tell how fast you are playing...3 incomplete passes equals the same ammount of time off the clock whether you snap the ball with 20 or 1 second on the clock.

I guess if you operate under the assumption all 3 and out drives are 3 incomplete passes then you would be correct. However, that is rarely the case... Drive time and time of possession are clear indications of how fast an offense is operating. There is another post where I pulled time of possession for games and we have only had one game where we lead in time of possession. As I pointed out the one game we lead in time of possession we only the ball for 3 or 4 more minutes than the opponent despite the score being 77-3

When you are scoring on big plays, defense scoring TDs and scoring on special teams your Time of possession tends to be low as well.

And yes they can be indications but also not a smoking gun...Tulsa plays just as fast as us...Why did they win the time of possession battle...Because they got first downs and were able to run the ball at will.

Tulsa First Half Drives...Shouldn't their defense have been tired as well?

#2 1:03
#3 1:55
#4 :40
#6 1:23
#7 :27
#9 :50

Essentially the only reason Tulsa won the TOP battle is because on one drive where they were trying to drain the clock we allowed them to score a TD by running the ball 10 out of 11 times on one drive scoring a TD and the one pass was complete.

Actually that is not correct. Most of Tulsa's possessions were longer than ours because Tulsa sustained their drives resulting in scores. I recognize that Tulsa plays fast, even faster that us but Tulsa led in TOP from the opening kickoff. TOP is posted at the bottom of the scoreboard for all to see. And after 2 extended Tulsa drives that resulted in scores to open the game, Tulsa led in TOP by a substantial margin. Our issues were a series of unsuccessful drives of short duration. Only a 4th qtr Memphis drive that included a lot of ground work evened up the rushing totals & provided some TOP balance.

Tulsa had 3 drives entirely in the 4th quarter that totalled over 9 minutes and on one drive they rushed for 82 yards so unless we played an 18 minute fourth quarter we did not balance the TOP battle it actually got worst 9 minutes to 6 in the fourth.

Defenses get tired when they cannot get stops not because their offense plays fast. Our offensive issue is not pace it is discipline and we make too many mistakes to sustain a drive so we normally have to score on big plays.

Right, and I am simply questioning if part of that is due to or amplified by trying to play at such a fast pace. Would slowing down from time time help cut down on false starts, illegal motion, receivers not being set for at least a second, missed blocking assignments, etc. To be fair, this not some original thought of mine, the announcers spent a lot of time talking about it in the Tulsa game. I simply tend to agree with them that it is causing serious problems trying to go too fast (not fast in general, just too fast).

Again, the goal in not just lay blame on pace but ask if it is a major contributing factor to a series of problems.

Tulsa is just one example, 7 out of 8 games we have lost the time of possession battle and it seems like it is really starting to catch up to the defense. I absolutely believe in a compounding effect of time on the field for our defense. We have gotten progressively worse as the season has gone on. Total time spent on the field for Memphis looks like this:

Offense - 212 minutes
Defense - 268 minutes

Our defense is a known weakness, it just seems like we should be game planning to minimize their time on the field, no maximize it...