This year three teams play 2 FCS teams. They are:

UNC: Citadel and James Madison
Army: Lafayette and Morgan State
USA: Scheduled Nicholls and involuntarily was left with Presbyterian when they got shafted by LSU mid season.

How will this play out for FBS bowl eligiblity. My understanding is as follows:

If there aren't enough 6-6 teams with 1 or less FCS wins to fill all available bowl slots, then 6 win FBS teams with 2 wins over FCS teams go first, provided that BOTH of those FCS teams maintained an average of 57.5 full time equivalent athletic scholarships over a 2 year period. In other words, Army and USA would go bowling before any 5-7 APR team.

Is this correct?

And if this is correct, does Lafayette meet the 57.5 FTE scholarship requirement? Because this is somewhat in doubt and it would be important for Army, USA and the APR teams.

Arizona State went 6-6 one year, but got shafted by the NCAA because 2 of their wins came against Northern Arizona and Webber State. That is why PAC 12 would love to see some of the Big Sky schools move up as FBS since there are times that they have to play 2 Big Sky schools in a season beyond their control when another school at FBS pulled out.

(10-30-2016 07:19 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Arizona State went 6-6 one year, but got shafted by the NCAA because 2 of their wins came against Northern Arizona and Webber State. That is why PAC 12 would love to see some of the Big Sky schools move up as FBS since there are times that they have to play 2 Big Sky schools in a season beyond their control when another school at FBS pulled out.

That's not my question. Army or UNC wouldn't be 'shafted' if they didn't bowl because they scheduled 2 FCS teams knowing what the rule was in advance. USA is a special case (we didnt schedule our second FCS team, but were left with no choice when we were screwed over by UF and LSU).

When did San Jose State back out of their game with Arizona State? EDIT...SJSU cancelled 18 months in advance. I suspect Arizona State could have found or paid for another team to play them.

My questions are:

1) How are the rules for filling bowls with 6-6 teams with 2 FCS wins currently applied?

2) Does anyone know if Lafayette is currently under the 57.5 2 year average requirement for bowl eligibility inclusion for FBS teams?

Patriot League football schools started offering up to 15 scholarships a year in 2013. Don't know if Lafayette maximized that boot up rate or if their were drop outs. Guessing Lafayette isn't to a maximum of 60 yet, but they might be close.

From a fairness standpoint, six win FBS teams with two FCS wins should get priority over 5-7 FBS teams, but the NCAA would probable consider all of them equal.

(10-30-2016 08:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Patriot League football schools started offering up to 15 scholarships a year in 2013. Don't know if Lafayette maximized that boot up rate or if their were drop outs. Guessing Lafayette isn't to a maximum of 60 yet, but they might be close.

Thanks, it appears that it is relevant only if the team wants to qualify conventionally (the 1 FCS win counts rule), but does NOT factor into play if they are trying to get in using the 2 FCS win rule. Odd, but that's what the guidebook seems to say.

UNC and Army should be in regardless. South Alabama will be tough but they were doubtful to win that LSU game anyway

(10-30-2016 10:12 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  UNC and Army should be in regardless. South Alabama will be tough but they were doubtful to win that LSU game anyway

Actually Army is looking like the most likely team to need the help. They need one of vs Air Force, Notre Dame (San Antonio) and Navy (Phila.). Basically, if they lose to AFA, then its likely they'll need the 2 FCS games to get to bowl eligibility using the secondary qualification rule.

UNC is pretty much already conventionally eligible.

USA needs 2 FBS wins to become conventionally eligible. They have @ULM (2-6), @Idaho (4-4), and NMSU (2-6).

(10-30-2016 08:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Patriot League football schools started offering up to 15 scholarships a year in 2013. Don't know if Lafayette maximized that boot up rate or if their were drop outs. Guessing Lafayette isn't to a maximum of 60 yet, but they might be close.

From a fairness standpoint, six win FBS teams with two FCS wins should get priority over 5-7 FBS teams, but the NCAA would probable consider all of them equal.

When in doubt don't speculate, consult the rules.
If the number of bowl eligible teams is less than the number of slots you go through each step in order until all bowls are filled:
1. 6-6 with one FCS win over an FCS that does not award enough aid to be a countable win.
2. 6-6 with two FCS wins.
3. 6 win teams that scheduled 13 games before the season started (ie. played at Hawaii, 6-7 who lost their 7th in a conference championship game are now bowl eligible and no longer require a waiver)
4. 6 win or better teams in the final year of transition to FBS (ie. met FBS schedule requirements and will be FBS the next year if they met all the criteria)
5. 5-7 teams selected in order of multi-year APR score.

The NCAA passed additional legislation this year clarifying that in no case may a 5-7 be selected until all the other pools are selected.

(10-30-2016 07:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 07:19 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Arizona State went 6-6 one year, but got shafted by the NCAA because 2 of their wins came against Northern Arizona and Webber State. That is why PAC 12 would love to see some of the Big Sky schools move up as FBS since there are times that they have to play 2 Big Sky schools in a season beyond their control when another school at FBS pulled out.

That's not my question. Army or UNC wouldn't be 'shafted' if they didn't bowl because they scheduled 2 FCS teams knowing what the rule was in advance. USA is a special case (we didnt schedule our second FCS team, but were left with no choice when we were screwed over by UF and LSU).

When did San Jose State back out of their game with Arizona State? EDIT...SJSU cancelled 18 months in advance. I suspect Arizona State could have found or paid for another team to play them.

My questions are:

1) How are the rules for filling bowls with 6-6 teams with 2 FCS wins currently applied?

2) Does anyone know if Lafayette is currently under the 57.5 2 year average requirement for bowl eligibility inclusion for FBS teams?

I would count James Madison as an FBS team stuck in FCS.

(10-30-2016 10:29 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 10:12 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  UNC and Army should be in regardless. South Alabama will be tough but they were doubtful to win that LSU game anyway

Actually Army is looking like the most likely team to need the help. They need one of vs Air Force, Notre Dame (San Antonio) and Navy (Phila.). Basically, if they lose to AFA, then its likely they'll need the 2 FCS games to get to bowl eligibility using the secondary qualification rule.

UNC is pretty much already conventionally eligible.

USA needs 2 FBS wins to become conventionally eligible. They have @ULM (2-6), @Idaho (4-4), and NMSU (2-6).

You're right, I didn't really take a look at their schedule.

(10-31-2016 12:30 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 08:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Patriot League football schools started offering up to 15 scholarships a year in 2013. Don't know if Lafayette maximized that boot up rate or if their were drop outs. Guessing Lafayette isn't to a maximum of 60 yet, but they might be close.

From a fairness standpoint, six win FBS teams with two FCS wins should get priority over 5-7 FBS teams, but the NCAA would probable consider all of them equal.

When in doubt don't speculate, consult the rules.
If the number of bowl eligible teams is less than the number of slots you go through each step in order until all bowls are filled:
1. 6-6 with one FCS win over an FCS that does not award enough aid to be a countable win.
2. 6-6 with two FCS wins.
3. 6 win teams that scheduled 13 games before the season started (ie. played at Hawaii, 6-7 who lost their 7th in a conference championship game are now bowl eligible and no longer require a waiver)
4. 6 win or better teams in the final year of transition to FBS (ie. met FBS schedule requirements and will be FBS the next year if they met all the criteria)
5. 5-7 teams selected in order of multi-year APR score.

The NCAA passed additional legislation this year clarifying that in no case may a 5-7 be selected until all the other pools are selected.

Coastal as far as I know is the only school transitioning. They just won their 6th game Saturday, I wonder if they would consider a bowl

(10-30-2016 07:19 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Arizona State went 6-6 one year, but got shafted by the NCAA because 2 of their wins came against Northern Arizona and Webber State. That is why PAC 12 would love to see some of the Big Sky schools move up as FBS since there are times that they have to play 2 Big Sky schools in a season beyond their control when another school at FBS pulled out.

ASU had received a waiver the previous year when the NCAA had counted 2 FCS wins for ASU and let them bowl. The second year in a row of 2 wins over FCS teams cost them a bowl. I think that was 2011, I'll check.
Cheers!

(10-31-2016 08:26 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 12:30 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 08:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Patriot League football schools started offering up to 15 scholarships a year in 2013. Don't know if Lafayette maximized that boot up rate or if their were drop outs. Guessing Lafayette isn't to a maximum of 60 yet, but they might be close.

From a fairness standpoint, six win FBS teams with two FCS wins should get priority over 5-7 FBS teams, but the NCAA would probable consider all of them equal.

When in doubt don't speculate, consult the rules.
If the number of bowl eligible teams is less than the number of slots you go through each step in order until all bowls are filled:
1. 6-6 with one FCS win over an FCS that does not award enough aid to be a countable win.
2. 6-6 with two FCS wins.
3. 6 win teams that scheduled 13 games before the season started (ie. played at Hawaii, 6-7 who lost their 7th in a conference championship game are now bowl eligible and no longer require a waiver)
4. 6 win or better teams in the final year of transition to FBS (ie. met FBS schedule requirements and will be FBS the next year if they met all the criteria)
5. 5-7 teams selected in order of multi-year APR score.

The NCAA passed additional legislation this year clarifying that in no case may a 5-7 be selected until all the other pools are selected.

Coastal as far as I know is the only school transitioning. They just won their 6th game Saturday, I wonder if they would consider a bowl

Coastal is in their 1st year of transition to FBS.

(10-31-2016 10:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 08:26 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 12:30 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 08:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Patriot League football schools started offering up to 15 scholarships a year in 2013. Don't know if Lafayette maximized that boot up rate or if their were drop outs. Guessing Lafayette isn't to a maximum of 60 yet, but they might be close.

From a fairness standpoint, six win FBS teams with two FCS wins should get priority over 5-7 FBS teams, but the NCAA would probable consider all of them equal.

When in doubt don't speculate, consult the rules.
If the number of bowl eligible teams is less than the number of slots you go through each step in order until all bowls are filled:
1. 6-6 with one FCS win over an FCS that does not award enough aid to be a countable win.
2. 6-6 with two FCS wins.
3. 6 win teams that scheduled 13 games before the season started (ie. played at Hawaii, 6-7 who lost their 7th in a conference championship game are now bowl eligible and no longer require a waiver)
4. 6 win or better teams in the final year of transition to FBS (ie. met FBS schedule requirements and will be FBS the next year if they met all the criteria)
5. 5-7 teams selected in order of multi-year APR score.

The NCAA passed additional legislation this year clarifying that in no case may a 5-7 be selected until all the other pools are selected.

Coastal as far as I know is the only school transitioning. They just won their 6th game Saturday, I wonder if they would consider a bowl

Coastal is in their 1st year of transition to FBS.

And thus not eligible.

(10-31-2016 02:29 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 10:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 08:26 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 12:30 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 08:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Patriot League football schools started offering up to 15 scholarships a year in 2013. Don't know if Lafayette maximized that boot up rate or if their were drop outs. Guessing Lafayette isn't to a maximum of 60 yet, but they might be close.

From a fairness standpoint, six win FBS teams with two FCS wins should get priority over 5-7 FBS teams, but the NCAA would probable consider all of them equal.

When in doubt don't speculate, consult the rules.
If the number of bowl eligible teams is less than the number of slots you go through each step in order until all bowls are filled:
1. 6-6 with one FCS win over an FCS that does not award enough aid to be a countable win.
2. 6-6 with two FCS wins.
3. 6 win teams that scheduled 13 games before the season started (ie. played at Hawaii, 6-7 who lost their 7th in a conference championship game are now bowl eligible and no longer require a waiver)
4. 6 win or better teams in the final year of transition to FBS (ie. met FBS schedule requirements and will be FBS the next year if they met all the criteria)
5. 5-7 teams selected in order of multi-year APR score.

The NCAA passed additional legislation this year clarifying that in no case may a 5-7 be selected until all the other pools are selected.

Coastal as far as I know is the only school transitioning. They just won their 6th game Saturday, I wonder if they would consider a bowl

Coastal is in their 1st year of transition to FBS.

And thus not eligible.

They are playing an all-FCS schedule this year. So not even in the discussion

"
1. 6-6 with one FCS win over an FCS that does not award enough aid to be a countable win.
2. 6-6 with two FCS wins.
3. 6 win teams that scheduled 13 games before the season started (ie. played at Hawaii, 6-7 who lost their 7th in a conference championship game are now bowl eligible and no longer require a waiver)
4. 6 win or better teams in the final year of transition to FBS (ie. met FBS schedule requirements and will be FBS the next year if they met all the criteria)
5. 5-7 teams selected in order of multi-year APR score.
"

In other words, team A is 6-6, beat 5 FBS teams, lost to six FBS teams, and beat one FCS team that doesn't even meet minimum FCS requirements for counting as a bowl win, and team B is 5-7, beat 5 FBS teams, lost to seven FBS teams.

Team A has a minimum APR. Team B has the best APR in FBS.

Nope. Team A gets the bowl bid over team B, because team B was "stupid" enough to schedule a FBS team instead of a non-qualifying FCS team.


What a kick in the nuts.


Bulls___.

(10-31-2016 02:52 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 02:29 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 10:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 08:26 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 12:30 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  When in doubt don't speculate, consult the rules.
If the number of bowl eligible teams is less than the number of slots you go through each step in order until all bowls are filled:
1. 6-6 with one FCS win over an FCS that does not award enough aid to be a countable win.
2. 6-6 with two FCS wins.
3. 6 win teams that scheduled 13 games before the season started (ie. played at Hawaii, 6-7 who lost their 7th in a conference championship game are now bowl eligible and no longer require a waiver)
4. 6 win or better teams in the final year of transition to FBS (ie. met FBS schedule requirements and will be FBS the next year if they met all the criteria)
5. 5-7 teams selected in order of multi-year APR score.

The NCAA passed additional legislation this year clarifying that in no case may a 5-7 be selected until all the other pools are selected.

Coastal as far as I know is the only school transitioning. They just won their 6th game Saturday, I wonder if they would consider a bowl

Coastal is in their 1st year of transition to FBS.

And thus not eligible.

They are playing an all-FCS schedule this year. So not even in the discussion

Coastal hasn't applied for FBS yet, and are still eligible for the FCS playoffs. They will apply by June 1st and have their 1st season of transition next year. Now in the Sun Belt for other sports though.

(10-31-2016 03:57 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 02:52 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 02:29 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 10:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 08:26 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  Coastal as far as I know is the only school transitioning. They just won their 6th game Saturday, I wonder if they would consider a bowl

Coastal is in their 1st year of transition to FBS.

And thus not eligible.

They are playing an all-FCS schedule this year. So not even in the discussion

Coastal hasn't applied for FBS yet, and are still eligible for the FCS playoffs. They will apply by June 1st and have their 1st season of transition next year. Now in the Sun Belt for other sports though.

Wrong. They are playing 12 games this season, including one on the 26th of November(1st round of FCS playoffs)

(10-31-2016 03:57 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 02:52 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 02:29 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 10:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 08:26 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  Coastal as far as I know is the only school transitioning. They just won their 6th game Saturday, I wonder if they would consider a bowl

Coastal is in their 1st year of transition to FBS.

And thus not eligible.

They are playing an all-FCS schedule this year. So not even in the discussion

Coastal hasn't applied for FBS yet, and are still eligible for the FCS playoffs. They will apply by June 1st and have their 1st season of transition next year. Now in the Sun Belt for other sports though.

Coastal has applied for FBS, is ineligible for the FCS playoffs THIS year.

You are correct that CCU is already in the Sun Belt in all sports but football and that they will be in the first year of FBS transition next year.

(10-30-2016 07:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 07:19 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Arizona State went 6-6 one year, but got shafted by the NCAA because 2 of their wins came against Northern Arizona and Webber State. That is why PAC 12 would love to see some of the Big Sky schools move up as FBS since there are times that they have to play 2 Big Sky schools in a season beyond their control when another school at FBS pulled out.

That's not my question. Army or UNC wouldn't be 'shafted' if they didn't bowl because they scheduled 2 FCS teams knowing what the rule was in advance. USA is a special case (we didnt schedule our second FCS team, but were left with no choice when we were screwed over by UF and LSU).

When did San Jose State back out of their game with Arizona State? EDIT...SJSU cancelled 18 months in advance. I suspect Arizona State could have found or paid for another team to play them.

My questions are:

1) How are the rules for filling bowls with 6-6 teams with 2 FCS wins currently applied?

2) Does anyone know if Lafayette is currently under the 57.5 2 year average requirement for bowl eligibility inclusion for FBS teams?

South Alabama had a contract. How did you get "screwed over". Was the contract violated? Lmao.