(10-11-2016 10:13 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Cruz would have done worse than Trump. It's actually amazing to me that a subset of the right can't see that. Until you address your failings you won't be able to get past them. Trump's major problem is he has 15-20 years of tape on him that shows him as a misogynist pig. His message is actually somewhat solid. The populist/America first message would win. Cruz would have been labeled as a right wing zealot. That playbook is well written and established. He's a pawn of the social conservatives. He would have been eviscerated. NO WAY IN HELL CRUZ CAN WIN A NATIONAL ELECTION. I hope he does get the nod in 2020. Cruz 20' Spread the word.

Agree on all of this. I'd like to see somebody other than Trump run on a somewhat similar platform.

PS - Is it too late to retract that bet?

Trump spending today ripping on the republican party instead of bringing up something like the Podesta emails. The guy is laughably bad at this at the national level, but the primary field was divided enough for him to thrive by name recognition and appealing to the alt-right conspiracy theory, anti-immigrant, anti-muslim wing of the party.

Anybody else have Trump on twitter?

Oh boy! Shackles are off.

(10-11-2016 10:12 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 09:12 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 09:01 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 08:34 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Trump laid into Ryan this morning for his disloyalty. He's the perfect Manchurian candidate. You could make the argument he is destroying the GOP from within. I've never seen anything like this. I wasn't old enough to pay attention to the Kennedy Carter mess in 1980 but has anything else come to close to this? The party nominee goes out of his way to blast intra party leaders. It's amazing really.

He's destroying the GOP. What rises from the ashes.

The GOP, such that it is, needs destroying. Most of 'em are merely donk-lites doing what it takes to maintain the inside the beltway empire.

The Tea Party, the Trumpers, the Breitbarters, and the anti-RINOs remind me of the unhinged leftists of the late 70s and early 80s. The Dems didn't recover for 3 elections until they finally realized that 'better on my issues' wasn't really the biggest enemy of 'perfect on my issues'.

And the Dems still get it. The GOP doesn't. Getting 80% of what you want is better than getting 0% of what you want.

"Unhinged leftists of the late 70s and early 80s"
That sound like what the Democrat party has become. Fall in line.

Guys, Bernie lost the primary because HRC made the case that she was the better candidate. We remembered John Kerry (a good man who couldn't withstand attacks) and said "at least with HRC, attacks on her would be fought vigorously". The Dem voters actually went with the less liberal choice. Not because they were more liberal, but they were thinking strategically. Disagree with the logic if you want....but Dem primary voters are at least employing what they consider logic.

I see very little strategic thought on the GOP side.

(10-11-2016 10:38 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 10:12 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 09:12 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 09:01 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 08:34 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Trump laid into Ryan this morning for his disloyalty. He's the perfect Manchurian candidate. You could make the argument he is destroying the GOP from within. I've never seen anything like this. I wasn't old enough to pay attention to the Kennedy Carter mess in 1980 but has anything else come to close to this? The party nominee goes out of his way to blast intra party leaders. It's amazing really.

He's destroying the GOP. What rises from the ashes.

The GOP, such that it is, needs destroying. Most of 'em are merely donk-lites doing what it takes to maintain the inside the beltway empire.

The Tea Party, the Trumpers, the Breitbarters, and the anti-RINOs remind me of the unhinged leftists of the late 70s and early 80s. The Dems didn't recover for 3 elections until they finally realized that 'better on my issues' wasn't really the biggest enemy of 'perfect on my issues'.

And the Dems still get it. The GOP doesn't. Getting 80% of what you want is better than getting 0% of what you want.

"Unhinged leftists of the late 70s and early 80s"
That sound like what the Democrat party has become. Fall in line.

Guys, Bernie lost the primary because HRC made the case that she was the better candidate. We remembered John Kerry (a good man who couldn't withstand attacks) and said "at least with HRC, attacks on her would be fought vigorously". The Dem voters actually went with the less liberal choice. Not because they were more liberal, but they were thinking strategically. Disagree with the logic if you want....but Dem primary voters are at least employing what they consider logic.

I see very little strategic thought on the GOP side.

No.

(10-11-2016 10:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Anybody else have Trump on twitter?

Oh boy! Shackles are off.

Uncaged!

I have always tried to live by the Ronnie's commandment from the 80's. Thou shalt not attack a fellow Dem (or in his case the R's). Somewhere the R's forgot Reagan.

The idea that the democratic party has become increasingly leftist is just silly. Conservatives won on free trade and the last 2 democratic presidents / most mainstream senators are now pro-free trade (a lot more protectionists 30 years ago). The republicans won big victories on welfare and now most the democratic party supports welfare to work and the management of welfare dollars going to the states (states make the vast majority of the decisions on welfare these days, it's why food stamps continue to be used more as it's a program with low abuse levels and direct financial aid has dwindled). Very few democrats are fighting for single payer systems...in fact Obamacare was largely built on principals that conservatives advocated for in the mid 90s while fighting single payer. The fights now are over progressive taxation (where rich are taxed at significantly lower rates than they were 30 years ago) as republicans want to continue 50 year trend of lowering everyone's tax rates, while democrats mostly want to keep taxes the same (or raise slightly for top 1%). The characterization of the modern democrats as some far left statist entity just isn't consistent with the realities of the last few decades.

Ryan has reportedly told confidants that impeachment hearings will be scheduled to begin on January 23rd, ..........regardless of who wins.

(10-11-2016 10:45 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The idea that the democratic party has become increasingly leftist is just silly. Conservatives won on free trade and the last 2 democratic presidents / most mainstream senators are now pro-free trade (a lot more protectionists 30 years ago). The republicans won big victories on welfare and now most the democratic party supports welfare to work and the management of welfare dollars going to the states (states make the vast majority of the decisions on welfare these days, it's why food stamps continue to be used more as it's a program with low abuse levels and direct financial aid has dwindled). Very few democrats are fighting for single payer systems...in fact Obamacare was largely built on principals that conservatives advocated for in the mid 90s while fighting single payer. The fights now are over progressive taxation (where rich are taxed at significantly lower rates than they were 30 years ago) as republicans want to continue 50 year trend of lowering everyone's tax rates, while democrats mostly want to keep taxes the same (or raise slightly for top 1%). The characterization of the modern democrats as some far left statist entity just isn't consistent with the realities of the last few decades.

If you open you eyes you'll see that both parties have become extreme. Young liberals want "free" socialized healthcare, "free" college, and high taxes on successful people. That's why Bernie started a movement...that's the future of the Democrat party.

Republicans want to be very tough on terrorism and border security, this is seen and depicted as racist and xenophobic by mainstream media. Obviously lower taxes on EVERYONE to help stimulate the economy and prevent us from going into a recession. Younger conservatives are tolerant and not seen as racist.

(10-11-2016 10:46 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Ryan has reportedly told confidants that impeachment hearings will be scheduled to begin on January 23rd, ..........regardless of who wins.

Ryan would be very dumb to go after the Clintons. Two thirds to convict in the Senate. And its going to look terrible if the GOP starts off trying to undo an election they lost.

I can not imagine Republicans being that stupid, but if I had a nickel for every time I said that.........

(10-11-2016 10:52 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 10:45 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The idea that the democratic party has become increasingly leftist is just silly. Conservatives won on free trade and the last 2 democratic presidents / most mainstream senators are now pro-free trade (a lot more protectionists 30 years ago). The republicans won big victories on welfare and now most the democratic party supports welfare to work and the management of welfare dollars going to the states (states make the vast majority of the decisions on welfare these days, it's why food stamps continue to be used more as it's a program with low abuse levels and direct financial aid has dwindled). Very few democrats are fighting for single payer systems...in fact Obamacare was largely built on principals that conservatives advocated for in the mid 90s while fighting single payer. The fights now are over progressive taxation (where rich are taxed at significantly lower rates than they were 30 years ago) as republicans want to continue 50 year trend of lowering everyone's tax rates, while democrats mostly want to keep taxes the same (or raise slightly for top 1%). The characterization of the modern democrats as some far left statist entity just isn't consistent with the realities of the last few decades.

If you open you eyes you'll see that both parties have become extreme. Young liberals want "free" socialized healthcare, "free" college, and high taxes on successful people. That's why Bernie started a movement...that's the future of the Democrat party.

Republicans want to be very tough on terrorism and border security, this is seen and depicted as racist and xenophobic by mainstream media. Obviously lower taxes on EVERYONE to help stimulate the economy and prevent us from going into a recession. Younger conservatives are tolerant and not seen as racist.

Nobody is denying there are people on further left than where the mainstream democratic party is. The point is the party on the whole has not nominated those type of candidates. And republicans have actually won some big issues over the last few decades and brought mainstream democrats to their side. Yea there are vocal young liberals who got on the Bernie train (and I think it was a bigger group also because he was really the only alternative to Clinton), but the party as a whole has stayed pro free trade, embraced the welfare reforms of the 90s and been fairly business friendly.

(10-11-2016 10:13 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Cruz would have done worse than Trump. It's actually amazing to me that a subset of the right can't see that. Until you address your failings you won't be able to get past them. Trump's major problem is he has 15-20 years of tape on him that shows him as a misogynist pig. His message is actually somewhat solid. The populist/America first message would win. Cruz would have been labeled as a right wing zealot. That playbook is well written and established. He's a pawn of the social conservatives. He would have been eviscerated. NO WAY IN HELL CRUZ CAN WIN A NATIONAL ELECTION. I hope he does get the nod in 2020. Cruz 20' Spread the word.

You don't seem to understand just how bad a candidate HRC is. Biden could have played that game against Cruz. HRC couldn't. With all of Trump's failings and their claims of his extremism, guess what? He was dead even with her a week ago.

(10-11-2016 11:46 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 10:52 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 10:45 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The idea that the democratic party has become increasingly leftist is just silly. Conservatives won on free trade and the last 2 democratic presidents / most mainstream senators are now pro-free trade (a lot more protectionists 30 years ago). The republicans won big victories on welfare and now most the democratic party supports welfare to work and the management of welfare dollars going to the states (states make the vast majority of the decisions on welfare these days, it's why food stamps continue to be used more as it's a program with low abuse levels and direct financial aid has dwindled). Very few democrats are fighting for single payer systems...in fact Obamacare was largely built on principals that conservatives advocated for in the mid 90s while fighting single payer. The fights now are over progressive taxation (where rich are taxed at significantly lower rates than they were 30 years ago) as republicans want to continue 50 year trend of lowering everyone's tax rates, while democrats mostly want to keep taxes the same (or raise slightly for top 1%). The characterization of the modern democrats as some far left statist entity just isn't consistent with the realities of the last few decades.

If you open you eyes you'll see that both parties have become extreme. Young liberals want "free" socialized healthcare, "free" college, and high taxes on successful people. That's why Bernie started a movement...that's the future of the Democrat party.

Republicans want to be very tough on terrorism and border security, this is seen and depicted as racist and xenophobic by mainstream media. Obviously lower taxes on EVERYONE to help stimulate the economy and prevent us from going into a recession. Younger conservatives are tolerant and not seen as racist.

Nobody is denying there are people on further left than where the mainstream democratic party is. The point is the party on the whole has not nominated those type of candidates. And republicans have actually won some big issues over the last few decades and brought mainstream democrats to their side. Yea there are vocal young liberals who got on the Bernie train (and I think it was a bigger group also because he was really the only alternative to Clinton), but the party as a whole has stayed pro free trade, embraced the welfare reforms of the 90s and been fairly business friendly.

Obama ran to the left of HRC.

HRC has tried to run as Bernie.

(10-11-2016 10:46 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Ryan has reportedly told confidants that impeachment hearings will be scheduled to begin on January 23rd, ..........regardless of who wins.

if that happens

(10-11-2016 08:34 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Trump laid into Ryan this morning for his disloyalty. He's the perfect Manchurian candidate. You could make the argument he is destroying the GOP from within. I've never seen anything like this. I wasn't old enough to pay attention to the Kennedy Carter mess in 1980 but has anything else come to close to this? The party nominee goes out of his way to blast intra party leaders. It's amazing really.

He's destroying the GOP. What rises from the ashes.

the fact that he's destroying the republican party shouldn't surprise anyone. he was a democrat last july.

(10-11-2016 11:59 AM)EagleX Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 08:34 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Trump laid into Ryan this morning for his disloyalty. He's the perfect Manchurian candidate. You could make the argument he is destroying the GOP from within. I've never seen anything like this. I wasn't old enough to pay attention to the Kennedy Carter mess in 1980 but has anything else come to close to this? The party nominee goes out of his way to blast intra party leaders. It's amazing really.

He's destroying the GOP. What rises from the ashes.

the fact that he's destroying the republican party shouldn't surprise anyone. he was a democrat last july.

And Bernie wasn't a Democrat until a year or so ago too. That was another reason why the Dems were like...'Uh, not this time'

A preacher once said...'if the town whore came to church, I'd welcome her with open arms....but I'm not letting her lead the congregation the first night'