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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #1
Hey everyone
I miss yall....lol

Assessment of the game...yeah I don't need for it to be finished.

1. Our OC is garbage. The only deep route is a straight fade. No combo routes. We never stressed their defense. There seems to be no confidence in our offensive players. Davis is our best back but we don't give him the ball. Makes no sense.

2. Our offensive plays are poorly drawn up. We motion a guy, which brings attention to him, then throw the ball to him. Makes no sense. I saw no misdirection. We never tried to gain angles on the defense at all....EVER.

Defensively we actually played well enough win. I have some serious questions to how we line up to stuff. It just isn't sound. We also never brought pressure. We aren't good enough physically to sit in base defense and beat teams. If you don't want to play man zone dog them.

This game should be closer but offensively we didn't put ANY pressure on their defense.

The game plan seemed to be let's look good losing. I saw a lot of potential but I didn't see the coaches taking advantage of our players strengths. Baylor doesn't look good and we let them slide.

Side note Colorado st was #25 when we trounced them.

If our play calling gets better we'll actually win games. This isn't a bad team. I see bad game planning offensively.

Rice University all day every day.....
09-16-2016 10:08 PM
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nightowl24 Offline
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RE: Hey everyone
Oh yeah at wr I don't see any game breakers. Maybe that's why we don't push the ball down the field...I didn't see that guy that can break the top off a defense. That's bad recruiting. All I hear is how each class is only getting better but I'm not seeing that at wr. I'm not saying it isn't there I'm just not seeing it. Schematically wr aren't pressing the defense.
09-16-2016 10:13 PM
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RE: Hey everyone
(09-16-2016 10:13 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Oh yeah at wr I don't see any game breakers. Maybe that's why we don't push the ball down the field...I didn't see that guy that can break the top off a defense. That's bad recruiting. All I hear is how each class is only getting better but I'm not seeing that at wr. I'm not saying it isn't there I'm just not seeing it. Schematically wr aren't pressing the defense.

Thanks for confirming what my eyes are seeing. Not sure how these guys get jobs as OCs when they have no imagination. Very disheartening.
09-16-2016 10:41 PM
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mrbig Offline
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RE: Hey everyone
So there's this guy, I hear his name is ruowls or something. I was hanging out with a buddy of his who pointed out multiple opportunities missed by Rice's offense, and the converse where Baylor took advantage of Rice. If this buddy of his could figure it out, I bet ruowls could figure it out as well.

nightowl24, thanks for dropping by! You assessments are missed!
09-16-2016 11:09 PM
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RE: Hey everyone
(09-16-2016 10:13 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Oh yeah at wr I don't see any game breakers. Maybe that's why we don't push the ball down the field...I didn't see that guy that can break the top off a defense. That's bad recruiting. All I hear is how each class is only getting better but I'm not seeing that at wr. I'm not saying it isn't there I'm just not seeing it. Schematically wr aren't pressing the defense.

Were you standing next to me in the end zone? Ha! So much of what I was thinking ... the eyes don't lie.

The O-line actually did a pretty good job tonight, all things considered.
09-16-2016 11:12 PM
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Barney Offline
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RE: Hey everyone
Agree with most of above.
Welcome back Nightowl24.
How great to see a truly excited and loud crowd in HRS for a change -- at least for a half.
Apparently the MOB showed up well -- and biting enough to make some national news -- kudos!!

Defense played hard and pretty well, especially considering they were on the field all night against a much larger and faster offense -- and our DB's seem to have become much faster almost overnight....what's that about?

I don't think the offense lacks talent or imagination. But it is astonishingly lacking in discipline and execution. I've seen Rice offenses with less talent, but never one this inept, and that's going back many decades. I have to believe they'll get better -- they just look like they haven't practiced much.
09-16-2016 11:23 PM
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Post: #7
RE: Hey everyone
(09-16-2016 10:08 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  I miss yall....lol

Assessment of the game...yeah I don't need for it to be finished.

1. Our OC is garbage. But he is such good friends with all the coaching staff as we've heard.

2. Our offensive plays are poorly drawn up. We just have to get better.

Defensively we actually played well enough win. Agreed. This game was actually winnable, but we have no offensive cohesiveness. Where the heck are all those 4 great running backs we heard touted before the season?

This game should be closer but offensively we didn't put ANY pressure on their defense. Baylor is a good preseason team; just wait until the regular season starts.

The game plan seemed to be let's look good losing. By 'the book" Bailiff coaching 101.

Side note Colorado st was #25 when we trounced them. We don't need to do that kind of thing around here anymore. Good enough is good enough.

If our play calling gets better we'll actually win games. This isn't a bad team. I see bad game planning offensively. Win in spite of the coaching. Worked for Chase et al.

Rice University all day every day.....
09-16-2016 11:40 PM
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Post: #8
RE: Hey everyone
(09-16-2016 10:08 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  I miss yall....lol

Assessment of the game...yeah I don't need for it to be finished.

1. Our OC is garbage. The only deep route is a straight fade. No combo routes. We never stressed their defense. There seems to be no confidence in our offensive players. Davis is our best back but we don't give him the ball. Makes no sense.

2. Our offensive plays are poorly drawn up. We motion a guy, which brings attention to him, then throw the ball to him. Makes no sense. I saw no misdirection. We never tried to gain angles on the defense at all....EVER.

Defensively we actually played well enough win. I have some serious questions to how we line up to stuff. It just isn't sound. We also never brought pressure. We aren't good enough physically to sit in base defense and beat teams. If you don't want to play man zone dog them.

This game should be closer but offensively we didn't put ANY pressure on their defense.

The game plan seemed to be let's look good losing. I saw a lot of potential but I didn't see the coaches taking advantage of our players strengths. Baylor doesn't look good and we let them slide.

Side note Colorado st was #25 when we trounced them.

If our play calling gets better we'll actually win games. This isn't a bad team. I see bad game planning offensively.

Rice University all day every day.....
09-17-2016 01:41 AM
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Ricefootballnet Offline
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RE: Hey everyone
Great to have your input Josh. Still one of our outstanding Rice Men. All the best....
09-17-2016 01:44 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #10
RE: Hey everyone
(09-16-2016 10:08 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  I miss yall....lol

Assessment of the game...yeah I don't need for it to be finished.

1. Our OC is garbage. The only deep route is a straight fade. No combo routes. We never stressed their defense. There seems to be no confidence in our offensive players. Davis is our best back but we don't give him the ball. Makes no sense.

2. Our offensive plays are poorly drawn up. We motion a guy, which brings attention to him, then throw the ball to him. Makes no sense. I saw no misdirection. We never tried to gain angles on the defense at all....EVER.

Defensively we actually played well enough win. I have some serious questions to how we line up to stuff. It just isn't sound. We also never brought pressure. We aren't good enough physically to sit in base defense and beat teams. If you don't want to play man zone dog them.

This game should be closer but offensively we didn't put ANY pressure on their defense.

The game plan seemed to be let's look good losing. I saw a lot of potential but I didn't see the coaches taking advantage of our players strengths. Baylor doesn't look good and we let them slide.

Side note Colorado st was #25 when we trounced them.

If our play calling gets better we'll actually win games. This isn't a bad team. I see bad game planning offensively.

Rice University all day every day.....

1, We haven't really used combo routes under Bailiff. Not even when Mensa was OC. He uses them at UH.
2. We haven't really used misdirection under Bailiff. Not even when Mensa was OC. He uses it at UH.

Our whole offense seems to built around the idea that we are not going to outscheme people, we are going to out-athlete them. We can't outrun the corner on a fade. When we have a WR who can outrun the corner, the fade will work. Until then, instead of finding some way that he can beat the corner, we will just keep trying and failing with the fade. Because it will work when we get that round peg to plug into that round hole, and the EZF will enable us to recruit him. Okay, maybe I'm being too sarcastic here. But if that's not the philosophy, what is?

Same on defense. We're not good enough to line up in base defense and beat you. So we're going to keep lining up in base defense and getting out-athleted until we get a bunch of round pegs to put into those round holes. And the EZF is how we are going to get them to come here.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Can somebody explain what our safeties are staring at in the offensive backfield that is so intriguing that they want to stand flat-footed and keep staring while a receiver runs straight by them? Over and over, time after time?
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2016 05:51 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-17-2016 09:15 AM
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RE: Hey everyone
(09-17-2016 09:15 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-16-2016 10:08 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  I miss yall....lol

Assessment of the game...yeah I don't need for it to be finished.

1. Our OC is garbage. The only deep route is a straight fade. No combo routes. We never stressed their defense. There seems to be no confidence in our offensive players. Davis is our best back but we don't give him the ball. Makes no sense.

2. Our offensive plays are poorly drawn up. We motion a guy, which brings attention to him, then throw the ball to him. Makes no sense. I saw no misdirection. We never tried to gain angles on the defense at all....EVER.

Defensively we actually played well enough win. I have some serious questions to how we line up to stuff. It just isn't sound. We also never brought pressure. We aren't good enough physically to sit in base defense and beat teams. If you don't want to play man zone dog them.

This game should be closer but offensively we didn't put ANY pressure on their defense.

The game plan seemed to be let's look good losing. I saw a lot of potential but I didn't see the coaches taking advantage of our players strengths. Baylor doesn't look good and we let them slide.

Side note Colorado st was #25 when we trounced them.

If our play calling gets better we'll actually win games. This isn't a bad team. I see bad game planning offensively.

Rice University all day every day.....

1, We haven't really used combo routes under Bailiff. Not even when Mensa was OC. He uses them at UH.
2. We haven't really used misdirection under Bailiff. Not even when Mensa was OC. He uses it at UH.

Our whole offense seems to built around the idea that we are not going to outscheme people, we are going to out-athlete them. We can't outrun the corner on a fade. When we have a WR who can outrun the corner, the fade will work. Until then, instead of finding some way that he can beat the WR, we will just keep trying and failing with the fade. Because it will work when we get that round peg to plug into that round hole, and the EZF will enable us to recruit him. Okay, maybe I'm being too sarcastic here. But if that's not the philosophy, what is?

Same on defense. We're not good enough to line up in base defense and beat you. So we're going to keep lining up in base defense and getting out-athleted until we get a bunch of round pegs to put into those round holes. And the EZF is how we are going to get them to come here.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Can somebody explain what our safeties are staring at in the offensive backfield that is so intriguing that they want to stand flat-footed and keep staring while a receiver runs straight by them? Over and over, time after time?

Here is a little historical perspective. The new buzz word in passing development has been concepts. As in, combo routes are now concepts. For some reason, with the proliferation of the spread, the attack from one side of the ball by a grouping of receivers has "evolved" into these concepts. To me, it is a bunch of garbage. Furthermore, there has been a coupling of the fly/jet sweep into the concepts. This is what you all are seeing. The problem is that there is too much horizontal movement and the "concepts" themselves are garbage.

You can all now see the inherent problem with a passing game developed off of these flawed "concepts" (or combo routes). Let's say that we have called concept A. The routes are a curl/flat concept. Unfortunately, a curl is good against zone and not so good against man if you run the route as taught by the textbook. Therefore, when the offense sees man (especially tight or press man), the "rule" is to change the routes from a zone route to a man route. Let's say that tight man becomes a go route by design. Also, a flat route (5 yard out) can very easily become a pick 6 against tight/press man so it probably adjusts to a go. Now, if the defense brings the house and goes tight man, the "concept" adjusts to go routes across the board. Plus, if the defense is in Cover 0 (straight man), they are bringing 1 more than you can block. The results are predictable.

Honestly, the passing game has to be completely revamped. As others have stated, it can work if you can run by people. If you can't, it looks really bad.

For those who only see a lack of separation due to not enough talent, I disagree. It is the system and rules of the system. With different reads and instruction, things could be much better.
09-17-2016 01:19 PM
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Post: #12
RE: Hey everyone
(09-17-2016 09:15 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-16-2016 10:08 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  I miss yall....lol

Assessment of the game...yeah I don't need for it to be finished.

1. Our OC is garbage. The only deep route is a straight fade. No combo routes. We never stressed their defense. There seems to be no confidence in our offensive players. Davis is our best back but we don't give him the ball. Makes no sense.

2. Our offensive plays are poorly drawn up. We motion a guy, which brings attention to him, then throw the ball to him. Makes no sense. I saw no misdirection. We never tried to gain angles on the defense at all....EVER.

Defensively we actually played well enough win. I have some serious questions to how we line up to stuff. It just isn't sound. We also never brought pressure. We aren't good enough physically to sit in base defense and beat teams. If you don't want to play man zone dog them.

This game should be closer but offensively we didn't put ANY pressure on their defense.

The game plan seemed to be let's look good losing. I saw a lot of potential but I didn't see the coaches taking advantage of our players strengths. Baylor doesn't look good and we let them slide.

Side note Colorado st was #25 when we trounced them.

If our play calling gets better we'll actually win games. This isn't a bad team. I see bad game planning offensively.

Rice University all day every day.....

1, We haven't really used combo routes under Bailiff. Not even when Mensa was OC. He uses them at UH.
2. We haven't really used misdirection under Bailiff. Not even when Mensa was OC. He uses it at UH.

Our whole offense seems to built around the idea that we are not going to outscheme people, we are going to out-athlete them. We can't outrun the corner on a fade. When we have a WR who can outrun the corner, the fade will work. Until then, instead of finding some way that he can beat the WR, we will just keep trying and failing with the fade. Because it will work when we get that round peg to plug into that round hole, and the EZF will enable us to recruit him. Okay, maybe I'm being too sarcastic here. But if that's not the philosophy, what is?

Same on defense. We're not good enough to line up in base defense and beat you. So we're going to keep lining up in base defense and getting out-athleted until we get a bunch of round pegs to put into those round holes. And the EZF is how we are going to get them to come here.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Can somebody explain what our safeties are staring at in the offensive backfield that is so intriguing that they want to stand flat-footed and keep staring while a receiver runs straight by them? Over and over, time after time?

For me, this has been one of the great, among many, mysteries of the Bailiff era. I can understand how a cornerback can get beaten badly. But I do not get how a safety (they call them safeties for a reason) can be beaten badly over and over and over. Really strange.
09-17-2016 05:00 PM
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Post: #13
RE: Hey everyone
No-one's going to comment on how NightOwl24 found the shift key after all these years?

Outstanding post, as usual. The offense is a mess, but I was pleased with the defensive effort. I also had questions about how they lined up and didn't seem to try to confuse the offense when it was clear they would make a play call with nearly a 100% success rate just based on where the defense lined up (run up the middle, etc.).

I was happy that Basingame (sp?) got the rambeaucheaux shot at the end. He had a tough assignment. I didn't want to see the receiver hurt - he is clearly very good. But what cornerback doesn't dream about something like that after they've been beaten a few times (and that TD wasn't even his assignment, IIRC).

One question on the defensive side. Baylor likes to rest their receivers when the ball is not going their way. Why not take the opportunity to knock the snot our of them when they do that? I don't think that's playing dirty, I think it's gamesmamship.

Fieldhouse looked great on TV. The athletic department did an absolutely fantastic job of PR for this game... perhaps the best I've ever seen out of a Rice game. It was helpful that Mack Brown was doing color... I've always thought he was a class act. But, kudos to the athletic department. You could clearly see the professionalism and attention to detail that they put in, and it payed back in the broadcast.
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2016 10:08 AM by I45owl.)
09-18-2016 09:54 AM
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Post: #14
RE: Hey everyone
(09-16-2016 10:08 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  I miss yall....lol

Assessment of the game...yeah I don't need for it to be finished.

1. Our OC is garbage. The only deep route is a straight fade. No combo routes. We never stressed their defense. There seems to be no confidence in our offensive players. Davis is our best back but we don't give him the ball. Makes no sense.

2. Our offensive plays are poorly drawn up. We motion a guy, which brings attention to him, then throw the ball to him. Makes no sense. I saw no misdirection. We never tried to gain angles on the defense at all....EVER.

Defensively we actually played well enough win. I have some serious questions to how we line up to stuff. It just isn't sound. We also never brought pressure. We aren't good enough physically to sit in base defense and beat teams. If you don't want to play man zone dog them.

This game should be closer but offensively we didn't put ANY pressure on their defense.

The game plan seemed to be let's look good losing. I saw a lot of potential but I didn't see the coaches taking advantage of our players strengths. Baylor doesn't look good and we let them slide.

Side note Colorado st was #25 when we trounced them.

If our play calling gets better we'll actually win games. This isn't a bad team. I see bad game planning offensively.

Rice University all day every day.....

Great post.
09-18-2016 02:19 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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RE: Hey everyone
(09-17-2016 01:19 PM)ruowls Wrote:  The problem is that there is too much horizontal movement and the "concepts" themselves are garbage.

Agree, except that I'm not certain that we are actually running concepts. Concepts imply combo patterns, where routes are coordinated. We look more like old-time high school passing attacks where we appear to be running individual routes and relying on athleticism and individual effort to get open, instead of coordinated schemes to stress particular defenders. It might work if our receivers out-athleted their corners, but ours don't.

There are basically three ways to call pass patterns:
1) Call the primary receiver's route (Y cross) and the other receivers know what complementary routes they are assigned, or if you want to change a receiver's route, you add a "tag" (Y cross X post). This is what we did in HS and it is also the way Bill Walsh did it in the West Coast Offense. These calls can get long and bulky. When you just call the primary receiver, sometimes the other receivers forget and run the wrong complementary routes. And you really can't use this to call plays at the line, since you would be telling the defense what you are doing unless you used coded words.
2) Your use of a three or four number combination (Green 639) where each receiver has numbered routes, green is the pass protection, 6 tells receiver #1 to run a 6 route, receiver #2 to run a 3 route, and receiver #3 to run a 9 route. It's mnemonic, the bigger the number, the deeper the route. You tag any additional routes. This is the Don Coryell approach to the West Coast Offense. I like this because each receiver immediately knows both his route and the routes around him, so receivers can adjust as needed to stay out of each other's way. Bad thing is you are limited to 10 routes per receiver, although you might want more for a truly comprehensive attack. I did see one system that got around this problem by using numbers on outside breaking routes and letters on inside breaking routes. This approach may also give the defense too much information if used to call plays at the line, although again a code word can be used.
3) Concepts use just a name for every pattern, basically a code word. For example, "smash" means something like the inside receiver runs a corner/flag route and the outside receiver runs a hitch or in-breaking route underneath. Your backside receiver can run a post or streak to keep any backside support from rotating over. You stress the safety, if he goes to help on the corner, you throw to the hitch, if he breaks to the hitch, you throw to the corner. Using concepts has become popular with all the hurry up attacks, because it adapts well to calling plays at the line.

All of the coordinated patterns depend on timing. You take your drop, if any, plant, and either the ball is gone to your primary receiver or you're on to your second and third reads. You read your keys, figure out who is going to get open, and throw him the ball. You don't sit back and wait for somebody to get open. You'll get hammered if you do.

I really don't see much of this in our passing attack, but maybe that's just as you say, our concepts stink. I thought there was a great example of coordinated routes in the Southern Miss win over Kentucky. Southern gets the ball on about their own 30, under a minute left in the half, down by 25. They have the outside receiver run a deep out, looking to get maybe 15-20 yards, get OB to stop the clock, and run another play or two to get in position for a field goal to narrow the gap. The camera angle catches it perfectly, the safety breaks to the deep out route, and as soon as he does the QB looks to the inside receiver beating the nickel back on a streak, and hits him for the TD that ignited the comeback win. I don't see us doing that sort of stuff.

We run plays instead of an offense. We run pass routes instead of a coordinated passing attack.

Quote:Honestly, the passing game has to be completely revamped. As others have stated, it can work if you can run by people. If you can't, it looks really bad.
For those who only see a lack of separation due to not enough talent, I disagree. It is the system and rules of the system. With different reads and instruction, things could be much better.

There are schemes and systems that will work with the talent that we have. We don't have one of those schemes or systems. We're trying to out-athlete people instead of out-scheming and out-thinking and out-executing them. When we get Baylor's talent, it will work. How long before that happens?

And even with Baylor's talent, a coordinated scheme would be more effective.
09-19-2016 04:40 PM
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ruowls Offline
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RE: Hey everyone
4) Name the play. As in, Right Bone 90 Downtown.

You bring up an interesting point. Your discussion about the smash route is textbook. Unfortunately, it is incorrect. This is where coaching makes a difference because it is all about what you emphasize and why you emphasize it. Your breakdown has all the elements but it is incorrectly applied.

Read #1) Deep middle safety. QB looks to see if over-the-top safety rolls over to the smash side. He does so not because of the smash route but because if the safety rolls over it brings the backside post into play. QB scans backside. If safety rolls, is backside receiver isolated. If yes, does receiver have inside leverage for a seam post? If yes, throw the ball. If no or receiver not isolated, look back to smash side.

Read #2) Deep sideline coverage. Is corner route over the deep coverage? If yes, throw the ball. If no, go to read #3.

Read #3) Has flat coverage sunk deep under corner route? If yes, go to read #4. If no, throw the ball to the sideline and under deep coverage (assumes receiver flattens corner route so that QB can throw under to sideline where only receiver can catch it.

Read #4) Backer/SS (hook/curl defender. QB finds throwing lane based on defender and receiver positioning. Receiver has to adjust in/curl route to create a passing lane for the QB.

To summarize, deep coverage doesn't cover in/curl route. Underneath coverage does. Everyone needs to know why they are doing what they are doing and how their actions fit into the global picture. The QB needs to recognize leverage opportunities by extrapolating vectors within the proper smash route algorithm and receivers create separation by doing the same.

I humbly pass the chalk back you.
09-19-2016 08:13 PM
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ruowls Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Hey everyone
And a couple more points of discussion.

If you have 5 eligible receivers with 10 route choices, you have 100,000 theoretical options (00000-99999).

Numbering the combos also gives you more flexibility. You can package the concept multiple ways. For example, the smash rout out of trips can be with a clearing streak on the outside or outer slot with the in being the other and the corner can be either of the inner two receivers. Heck, you can go further and combo your combos. The inside two receivers can run a smash concept and the outside receiver runs the go. Now you have the smash concept coupled with a deep vertical stretch along the sideline. QB can overlay the smash algorithm with a vertical sideline stretch algorithm simultaneously since they share common reads. Layering these "concepts" is what creates complexity which is hard to defend. You couple that with spatial changes by receivers and it gets really hard to defend.
09-19-2016 09:05 PM
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Post: #18
RE: Hey everyone
(09-18-2016 09:54 AM)I45owl Wrote:  No-one's going to comment on how NightOwl24 found the shift key after all these years?

Outstanding post, as usual. The offense is a mess, but I was pleased with the defensive effort. I also had questions about how they lined up and didn't seem to try to confuse the offense when it was clear they would make a play call with nearly a 100% success rate just based on where the defense lined up (run up the middle, etc.).

I was happy that Basingame (sp?) got the rambeaucheaux shot at the end. He had a tough assignment. I didn't want to see the receiver hurt - he is clearly very good. But what cornerback doesn't dream about something like that after they've been beaten a few times (and that TD wasn't even his assignment, IIRC).

One question on the defensive side. Baylor likes to rest their receivers when the ball is not going their way. Why not take the opportunity to knock the snot our of them when they do that? I don't think that's playing dirty, I think it's gamesmamship.

Fieldhouse looked great on TV. The athletic department did an absolutely fantastic job of PR for this game... perhaps the best I've ever seen out of a Rice game. It was helpful that Mack Brown was doing color... I've always thought he was a class act. But, kudos to the athletic department. You could clearly see the professionalism and attention to detail that they put in, and it payed back in the broadcast.

it was done on my phone not a computer.....it capitalizes the letters for me....lol...notice i'm at work and no caps....hahahahah04-rock
09-20-2016 09:41 AM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Hey everyone
(09-19-2016 08:13 PM)ruowls Wrote:  4) Name the play. As in, Right Bone 90 Downtown.

You bring up an interesting point. Your discussion about the smash route is textbook. Unfortunately, it is incorrect. This is where coaching makes a difference because it is all about what you emphasize and why you emphasize it. Your breakdown has all the elements but it is incorrectly applied.

Read #1) Deep middle safety. QB looks to see if over-the-top safety rolls over to the smash side. He does so not because of the smash route but because if the safety rolls over it brings the backside post into play. QB scans backside. If safety rolls, is backside receiver isolated. If yes, does receiver have inside leverage for a seam post? If yes, throw the ball. If no or receiver not isolated, look back to smash side.

Read #2) Deep sideline coverage. Is corner route over the deep coverage? If yes, throw the ball. If no, go to read #3.

Read #3) Has flat coverage sunk deep under corner route? If yes, go to read #4. If no, throw the ball to the sideline and under deep coverage (assumes receiver flattens corner route so that QB can throw under to sideline where only receiver can catch it.

Read #4) Backer/SS (hook/curl defender. QB finds throwing lane based on defender and receiver positioning. Receiver has to adjust in/curl route to create a passing lane for the QB.

To summarize, deep coverage doesn't cover in/curl route. Underneath coverage does. Everyone needs to know why they are doing what they are doing and how their actions fit into the global picture. The QB needs to recognize leverage opportunities by extrapolating vectors within the proper smash route algorithm and receivers create separation by doing the same.

I humbly pass the chalk back you.

i love offensive guys.....all of that reading takes time. you think we are going to line up and just sit there and let it happen....i'm giving you false reads, then i got a dline in your face, i'm going to sugar my lbs and press my cbs.....you see man, snap of the ball i'm bailing off the LOS at he cb position. you now think deep coverage cause i bailed, oops wrong...i only bailed for 7yd drop. this allows me get back to the corner route that you are thinking the wr is going to flatten on, but you just checked backside cause my safety was over the top, but now you come back to the check down the hitch but I KNOW that is your last read so i'm driving on it soon as your head comes back and i'm killing that WR's back.....lol...made a living doing this technique in cover 2. now meanwhile i've coached my backside LB that he has a 2.5 sec count then he does an add delayed blitz. so your OL has sorted my line stunts but they didn't take into account that the LB was delay blitzing now all that read the front then the back then back to the front gets a little more dicy.

now with that all being said.....ruowls you will come back with a great concept that will defeat what i just explained because you are great offensive mind. AND whoever had the chalk last wins.....lol.....

my main point is that although i played defense i studied offensive a lot so that i knew what you were doing as you were doing it. i knew when you gave me a curl by one i'm expecting seam/corner or out and up by #2. based off release of #2 it tells me what #1 is doing. we aren't making the secondary think at all. we aren't making them freeze their feet in a little bit. double moves, adjusting routes and finding holes, rub routes, true combo routes that stress the secondary and allow for them to have some miscommunication. i was coaching during the advent of the jet sweep game. they do that to pull safeties wide to open the middle of the field and or get them to come down hill and fit, if you don't do that then you are using a LB which means i can run up the gut(theoretically). we aren't even doing that. we aren't using that concept the way it is meant...AT ALL. we run into the teeth of the defense waiting for one of our backs to break one loose because they ran over the whole team or make an heisman like move to get to the second level. on the outside we are so basic its maddening. i mean these kids are at RICE. can we not get some higher level thinking going on here?

lastly my statement still stands i dont see the talent at wr that is going to pop the top of the defense. regardless of routes and concepts you need a 4.3 guy that the secondary is like "oh crap we have to back up a little bit cause he'll get behind us". you want that guy that the cb wants to play press coverage because its a challenge not because they know they'll win. our wrs don't scare anyone therefore they pin their ears back upfront and say "sic 'em"(no pun intended....or maybe there was....lol).

basically i'd like to win games and look better than this while losing some games. there seemed to be a mindset by the coaches that we weren't going to win and we didn't want to do anything that would tip our hand to our talent level or playing calling for conference. its like we are playing for a 6-5 bowl....we are we not saying we are going out there to shock the world? what i saw from coaching, not the players, is that we were not highly interested in winning the game.... we wanted to survive the game and if we won....cool...we managed that game instead of coaching our asses off in that game.....jmo


GO OWLS....see i know where the shift key is......i just don't like using it.....slows me down....hahaha
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2016 10:15 AM by nightowl24.)
09-20-2016 10:06 AM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Hey everyone
(09-19-2016 09:05 PM)ruowls Wrote:  Numbering the combos also gives you more flexibility. You can package the concept multiple ways. For example, the smash rout out of trips can be with a clearing streak on the outside or outer slot with the in being the other and the corner can be either of the inner two receivers. Heck, you can go further and combo your combos. The inside two receivers can run a smash concept and the outside receiver runs the go. Now you have the smash concept coupled with a deep vertical stretch along the sideline. QB can overlay the smash algorithm with a vertical sideline stretch algorithm simultaneously since they share common reads. Layering these "concepts" is what creates complexity which is hard to defend. You couple that with spatial changes by receivers and it gets really hard to defend.

this is what i mean when i say combo routes....this stresses the defense beyond belief. leaving a safety on a slot wr as the outside wr is running go...no underneath help...that's scary. better yet personnel that bad boy and put that stud outside wr to the inside and do the same thing. move people all over the field finding mismatches motion people to move that defense and force communication...misdirection to hold people and freeze them from reacting quickly. this is what you see across the country...why do you think our secondary has problems? its because they are stressing our defense by route combinations, not just ability.
09-20-2016 10:19 AM
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