(08-18-2016 04:47 PM)axeme Wrote:  KSU won two NIT games in 1999 and four more in the 2000's. So 8 combined NCAA/NIT wins since 2000 plus two more if you go back one more year. Nobody even close. Anyone have more than 3-4?

Posted all the numbers. It's really remarkable Kent State's run from 1998 to 2010 was ... made either the NIT or NCAA in 11 of 14 seasons.

Akron is on a streak of 7 in the past 11 seasons, but with not nearly the same type of success.

Nobody else is really close to that.

And going back to the top-heavy argument, looking at those numbers shows this indeed has been a very top-heavy league, but with Kent (historically) and Akron (currently) at the top. Those two schools (which I have mentioned before have also overall dominated the MAC in the Director's Cup standings the past decade ... Kent for the past 25 years) have combined for 17 of the 41 NCAA/NIT appearances for the league since 2000 ... or 41.4 percent.

Overall, I think Ohio still deserves to be included in that top tier (they've kind have replaced Kent as the No. 2 school since 2010) and Buffalo is working toward it, but it will take more than two NCAAs to be included.

Seems like right now it's Akron, Kent, Ohio ... then Buffalo .... then everybody else.

Here is the breakdown for each school by year ... to get a feel for consistency:

Kent - 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2011
Akron - 2006, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2016
Ohio - 2005, 2010, 2012, 2013
Western Michigan - 2003, 2004, 2005, 2014
Toledo - 2001, 2004, 2007, 2014
Buffalo - 2005, 2015, 2016
Miami - 2005, 2006, 2007
Bowling Green - 2002, 2002, 2009
Central Michigan - 2003, 2015
Ball State - 2000, 2002

(08-18-2016 05:08 PM)Wadszip Wrote:  This actually was easy to look up. Here is the MAC in the NCAA/NIT since 2000:

Kent State (9-10) - 4-4 in NCAA; 5-6 in NIT
Ball State (3-2) - 0-1 in NCAA; 3-1 in NIT
Ohio (3-4) - 3-3 in NCAA; 0-1 NIT
Western Michigan (2-4) - 0-2 in NCAA; 2-2 in NIT
Akron (2-7) - 0-3 in NCAA; 2-4 in NIT
Central Michigan (1-2) - 1-1 in NCAA; 0-1 in NIT
Buffalo (1-3) - 0-2 in NCAA; 1-1 in NIT
Toledo (1-4) - 0-0 in NCAA; 1-4 in NIT
Miami (0-3) - 0-1 in NCAA; 0-2 in NIT
Bowling Green (0-3) - 0-0 in NCAA; 0-3 in NIT
Eastern Michigan (0-0)
Northern Illinois (0-0)

Overall NCAA/NIT appearances since 2000:
Kent State (10)
Akron (7)
Western Michigan (4)
Toledo (4)
Ohio (3)
Buffalo (3)
Bowling Green (3)
Miami (3)
Ball State (2)
Central Michigan (2)
Eastern Michigan (0)
Northern Illinois (0)

If I counted right the MAC is a combined 13-25 in the NIT. That is pretty terrible and kind of shows the selection committee has gotten it right for the most part of labeling the MAC as a 1 bid league.

(08-18-2016 05:38 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 05:08 PM)Wadszip Wrote:  This actually was easy to look up. Here is the MAC in the NCAA/NIT since 2000:

Kent State (9-10) - 4-4 in NCAA; 5-6 in NIT
Ball State (3-2) - 0-1 in NCAA; 3-1 in NIT
Ohio (3-4) - 3-3 in NCAA; 0-1 NIT
Western Michigan (2-4) - 0-2 in NCAA; 2-2 in NIT
Akron (2-7) - 0-3 in NCAA; 2-4 in NIT
Central Michigan (1-2) - 1-1 in NCAA; 0-1 in NIT
Buffalo (1-3) - 0-2 in NCAA; 1-1 in NIT
Toledo (1-4) - 0-0 in NCAA; 1-4 in NIT
Miami (0-3) - 0-1 in NCAA; 0-2 in NIT
Bowling Green (0-3) - 0-0 in NCAA; 0-3 in NIT
Eastern Michigan (0-0)
Northern Illinois (0-0)

Overall NCAA/NIT appearances since 2000:
Kent State (10)
Akron (7)
Western Michigan (4)
Toledo (4)
Ohio (3)
Buffalo (3)
Bowling Green (3)
Miami (3)
Ball State (2)
Central Michigan (2)
Eastern Michigan (0)
Northern Illinois (0)

If I counted right the MAC is a combined 13-25 in the NIT. That is pretty terrible and kind of shows the selection committee has gotten it right for the most part of labeling the MAC as a 1 bid league.

NIT also isn't played on neutral courts until the semis. 13-25 isn't horrible if 85-plus percent of those games were on the road. All six of Akron's games, for example, were on the road.

(08-18-2016 05:35 PM)Wadszip Wrote:  Here is the breakdown for each school by year ... to get a feel for consistency:

Kent - 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2011
Akron - 2006, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2016
Ohio - 2005, 2010, 2012, 2013
Western Michigan - 2003, 2004, 2005, 2014
Toledo - 2001, 2004, 2007, 2014
Buffalo - 2005, 2015, 2016
Miami - 2005, 2006, 2007
Bowling Green - 2002, 2002, 2009
Central Michigan - 2003, 2015
Ball State - 2000, 2002

Anyway you slice it, the results are about the same.

Kent, Akron, Ohio, WMU as a good team out of the west are the face of MAC basketball with Buffalo coming on lately. The MAC tournament in Cleveland is the face of MAC basketball.

It's a totally different place than where MAC basketball was in the 80's when the tourney was in Toledo, Akron was not in the MAC and Kent was a doormat.

Since I was messing around with a spreadsheet this evening. Here are the MAC standings since 2000/the past 10 years/the past 5 years:

Since 2000:
1. Kent State, 202-90 (.691)
2. Akron, 182-110 (.623)
3. Ohio, 163-129 (.558)
3. Western Michigan, 163-129 (.558)
5. Miami, 155-137 (.530)
6. Toledo, 152-139 (.522)
7. Bowling Green, 140-152 (.479)
8. Buffalo, 133-159 (.455)
9. Ball State, 131-161 (.448)
10. Central Michigan, 114-178 (.390)
11. Eastern Michigan, 111-181 (.380)
12. Northern Illinois, 108-183 (.371)

Last 10 years:
1. Akron, 116-50 (.698)
2. Kent State, 108-58 (.650)
3. Western Michigan, 94-72 (.566)
4. Ohio, 93-73 (.560)
5. Buffalo, 89-77 (.536)
6. Miami, 79-87 (.475)
7. Toledo, 78-87 (.472)
8. Eastern Michigan, 76-90 (.457)
9. Bowling Green, 73-93 (.439)
10. Central Michigan, 72-94 (.433)
11. Ball State, 63-103 (.379)
12. Northern Illinois, 54-111 (.327)

Last five years:
1. Akron, 61-25 (.709)
2. Buffalo, 54-32 (.627)
3. Ohio, 52-34 (.604)
4. Toledo, 50-36 (.581)
5. Kent State, 48-38 (.558)
6. Western Michigan, 47-39 (.546)
7. Eastern Michigan, 43-43 (.500)
8. Bowling Green, 38-48 (.441)
9. Central Michigan, 34-52 (.395)
10. Northern Illinois, 31-55 (.360)
11. Miami, 30-56 (.348)
12. Ball State, 28-58 (.325)

That last post makes me want to get a drink. F'n Brad Bates.

(08-18-2016 07:55 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  That last post makes me want to get a drink. F'n Brad Bates.

Buffalo rising ... Kent State falling ... Akron Ohio holding steady.

(08-18-2016 07:49 PM)Wadszip Wrote:  Since I was messing around with a spreadsheet this evening. Here are the MAC standings since 2000/the past 10 years/the past 5 years:

Since 2000:
1. Kent State, 202-90 (.691)
2. Akron, 182-110 (.623)
3. Ohio, 163-129 (.558)
3. Western Michigan, 163-129 (.558)
5. Miami, 155-137 (.530)
6. Toledo, 152-139 (.522)
7. Bowling Green, 140-152 (.479)
8. Buffalo, 133-159 (.455)
9. Ball State, 131-161 (.448)
10. Central Michigan, 114-178 (.390)
11. Eastern Michigan, 111-181 (.380)
12. Northern Illinois, 108-183 (.371)

Last 10 years:
1. Akron, 116-50 (.698)
2. Kent State, 108-58 (.650)
3. Western Michigan, 94-72 (.566)
4. Ohio, 93-73 (.560)
5. Buffalo, 89-77 (.536)
6. Miami, 79-87 (.475)
7. Toledo, 78-87 (.472)
8. Eastern Michigan, 76-90 (.457)
9. Bowling Green, 73-93 (.439)
10. Central Michigan, 72-94 (.433)
11. Ball State, 63-103 (.379)
12. Northern Illinois, 54-111 (.327)

Last five years:
1. Akron, 61-25 (.709)
2. Buffalo, 54-32 (.627)
3. Ohio, 52-34 (.604)
4. Toledo, 50-36 (.581)
5. Kent State, 48-38 (.558)
6. Western Michigan, 47-39 (.546)
7. Eastern Michigan, 43-43 (.500)
8. Bowling Green, 38-48 (.441)
9. Central Michigan, 34-52 (.395)
10. Northern Illinois, 31-55 (.360)
11. Miami, 30-56 (.348)
12. Ball State, 28-58 (.325)

to clarify, these are conference games only, right?

(08-18-2016 09:03 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 07:49 PM)Wadszip Wrote:  Since I was messing around with a spreadsheet this evening. Here are the MAC standings since 2000/the past 10 years/the past 5 years:

Since 2000:
1. Kent State, 202-90 (.691)
2. Akron, 182-110 (.623)
3. Ohio, 163-129 (.558)
3. Western Michigan, 163-129 (.558)
5. Miami, 155-137 (.530)
6. Toledo, 152-139 (.522)
7. Bowling Green, 140-152 (.479)
8. Buffalo, 133-159 (.455)
9. Ball State, 131-161 (.448)
10. Central Michigan, 114-178 (.390)
11. Eastern Michigan, 111-181 (.380)
12. Northern Illinois, 108-183 (.371)

Last 10 years:
1. Akron, 116-50 (.698)
2. Kent State, 108-58 (.650)
3. Western Michigan, 94-72 (.566)
4. Ohio, 93-73 (.560)
5. Buffalo, 89-77 (.536)
6. Miami, 79-87 (.475)
7. Toledo, 78-87 (.472)
8. Eastern Michigan, 76-90 (.457)
9. Bowling Green, 73-93 (.439)
10. Central Michigan, 72-94 (.433)
11. Ball State, 63-103 (.379)
12. Northern Illinois, 54-111 (.327)

Last five years:
1. Akron, 61-25 (.709)
2. Buffalo, 54-32 (.627)
3. Ohio, 52-34 (.604)
4. Toledo, 50-36 (.581)
5. Kent State, 48-38 (.558)
6. Western Michigan, 47-39 (.546)
7. Eastern Michigan, 43-43 (.500)
8. Bowling Green, 38-48 (.441)
9. Central Michigan, 34-52 (.395)
10. Northern Illinois, 31-55 (.360)
11. Miami, 30-56 (.348)
12. Ball State, 28-58 (.325)

to clarify, these are conference games only, right?

Yes

Well Akron's OOC schedule has officially been released.

http://www.gozips.com/sports/mbkb/2016-1...0823qiww51

(08-23-2016 10:10 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Well Akron's OOC schedule has officially been released.

http://www.gozips.com/sports/mbkb/2016-1...0823qiww51

Final RPI from last year-


45 @Gonzaga (25-7)
75 *UC Irvine (23-9)

100 @Creighton (18-14)
128 Marshall (17-16)
191 Radford (14-15)
194 *Mercer (17-14) -OR- *East Carolina

215 @UTEP (18-14) -OR- *MD Eastern Shore
218 *East Carolina (12-20) -OR- *Mercer
226 *Air Force (12-18)
230 American (12-19)
243 Ga Southern (12-17)
277 @Youngstown St (9-21)

307 *MD Eastern Shore (9-22) -OR- @UTEP
326 Coppin St (7-22)

the average RPI is between 187.5 and 197.2, depending on tournament match ups.

Not a single exciting home opponent. Bleh.

Akron's OOC schedule on the surface IMO appears to be slightly weaker than last years. They have more mid-major opponents this year, but the majority of which have historically terrible programs.

I have been surprised there have been so few G5 opponents on MAC schedules this year. Many MAC programs have none at all and there are only a few that have AAC or Big East opps either.

(08-24-2016 10:50 AM)axeme Wrote:  I have been surprised there have been so few G5 opponents on MAC schedules this year. Many MAC programs have none at all and there are only a few that have AAC or Big East opps either.

I'm not all that surprised. The Sun Belt and C-USA combined only have a few quality programs with the bottom half teams being pretty terrible. The MWC and AAC feel they are better than the other G5 conferences. I'd like to see more games vs. A10, Big East, and CAA

(08-24-2016 12:07 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(08-24-2016 10:50 AM)axeme Wrote:  I have been surprised there have been so few G5 opponents on MAC schedules this year. Many MAC programs have none at all and there are only a few that have AAC or Big East opps either.

I'm not all that surprised. The Sun Belt and C-USA combined only have a few quality programs with the bottom half teams being pretty terrible. The MWC and AAC feel they are better than the other G5 conferences. I'd like to see more games vs. A10, Big East, and CAA

My error: I meant P5, not G5. Where are the games vs. Big 10, PAC, SEC, Big 12, ACC? Those are the games that are noticeably absent from MAC schedules. Haven't looked at everyone's schedule, but I noticed Toledo and Akron have no P5 games. I remember a couple of others who don't either. Very hard to drive the league's rankings up when you don't play teams who will have generally better rankings by league association alone. Wins over even mediocre P5 teams can potentially help quite a bit if those teams pull off some conference upsets. And obviously we can really use wins over good P5 teams. Those are gold.

(08-24-2016 12:21 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(08-24-2016 12:07 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(08-24-2016 10:50 AM)axeme Wrote:  I have been surprised there have been so few G5 opponents on MAC schedules this year. Many MAC programs have none at all and there are only a few that have AAC or Big East opps either.

I'm not all that surprised. The Sun Belt and C-USA combined only have a few quality programs with the bottom half teams being pretty terrible. The MWC and AAC feel they are better than the other G5 conferences. I'd like to see more games vs. A10, Big East, and CAA

My error: I meant P5, not G5. Where are the games vs. Big 10, PAC, SEC, Big 12, ACC? Those are the games that are noticeably absent from MAC schedules. Haven't looked at everyone's schedule, but I noticed Toledo and Akron have no P5 games. I remember a couple of others who don't either. Very hard to drive the league's rankings up when you don't play teams who will have generally better rankings by league association alone. Wins over even mediocre P5 teams can potentially help quite a bit if those teams pull off some conference upsets. And obviously we can really use wins over good P5 teams. Those are gold.

I'm by no means trying to defend Akron's OOC scheduling as it always has too many cupcakes, but Akron normally does schedule some P5 teams. I'm counting 9 games in the past 3 regular season OOC and that doesn't include Villanova last year who went onto winning the entire thing. They were reportedly close to reaching a deal to play Louisville, but it fell through for whatever reason so they scheduled Gonzaga instead.

(08-24-2016 12:40 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(08-24-2016 12:21 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(08-24-2016 12:07 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(08-24-2016 10:50 AM)axeme Wrote:  I have been surprised there have been so few G5 opponents on MAC schedules this year. Many MAC programs have none at all and there are only a few that have AAC or Big East opps either.

I'm not all that surprised. The Sun Belt and C-USA combined only have a few quality programs with the bottom half teams being pretty terrible. The MWC and AAC feel they are better than the other G5 conferences. I'd like to see more games vs. A10, Big East, and CAA

My error: I meant P5, not G5. Where are the games vs. Big 10, PAC, SEC, Big 12, ACC? Those are the games that are noticeably absent from MAC schedules. Haven't looked at everyone's schedule, but I noticed Toledo and Akron have no P5 games. I remember a couple of others who don't either. Very hard to drive the league's rankings up when you don't play teams who will have generally better rankings by league association alone. Wins over even mediocre P5 teams can potentially help quite a bit if those teams pull off some conference upsets. And obviously we can really use wins over good P5 teams. Those are gold.

I'm by no means trying to defend Akron's OOC scheduling as it always has too many cupcakes, but Akron normally does schedule some P5 teams. I'm counting 9 games in the past 3 regular season OOC and that doesn't include Villanova last year who went onto winning the entire thing. They were reportedly close to reaching a deal to play Louisville, but it fell through for whatever reason so they scheduled Gonzaga instead.

I certainly would include Nova and Gonzaga. The better BE and AAC powers are the teams the better MAC teams need to take a shot at beating, along with whatever P5 teams they can get on the schedule.

Dambrot's scheduling has always baffled me. I don't see why he doesn't give his better teams a shot at the brass ring. If your team is not very good then it doesn't matter much, but he's had teams that could compete with top teams, but he never gives them the opportunity and then his team has no chance to put together a tournament resume. Plus, they never test themselves against top competition which can make a team better.

(08-24-2016 01:11 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(08-24-2016 12:40 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(08-24-2016 12:21 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(08-24-2016 12:07 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(08-24-2016 10:50 AM)axeme Wrote:  I have been surprised there have been so few G5 opponents on MAC schedules this year. Many MAC programs have none at all and there are only a few that have AAC or Big East opps either.

I'm not all that surprised. The Sun Belt and C-USA combined only have a few quality programs with the bottom half teams being pretty terrible. The MWC and AAC feel they are better than the other G5 conferences. I'd like to see more games vs. A10, Big East, and CAA

My error: I meant P5, not G5. Where are the games vs. Big 10, PAC, SEC, Big 12, ACC? Those are the games that are noticeably absent from MAC schedules. Haven't looked at everyone's schedule, but I noticed Toledo and Akron have no P5 games. I remember a couple of others who don't either. Very hard to drive the league's rankings up when you don't play teams who will have generally better rankings by league association alone. Wins over even mediocre P5 teams can potentially help quite a bit if those teams pull off some conference upsets. And obviously we can really use wins over good P5 teams. Those are gold.

I'm by no means trying to defend Akron's OOC scheduling as it always has too many cupcakes, but Akron normally does schedule some P5 teams. I'm counting 9 games in the past 3 regular season OOC and that doesn't include Villanova last year who went onto winning the entire thing. They were reportedly close to reaching a deal to play Louisville, but it fell through for whatever reason so they scheduled Gonzaga instead.

I certainly would include Nova and Gonzaga. The better BE and AAC powers are the teams the better MAC teams need to take a shot at beating, along with whatever P5 teams they can get on the schedule.

Dambrot's scheduling has always baffled me. I don't see why he doesn't give his better teams a shot at the brass ring. If your team is not very good then it doesn't matter much, but he's had teams that could compete with top teams, but he never gives them the opportunity and then his team has no chance to put together a tournament resume. Plus, they never test themselves against top competition which can make a team better.

Buffalo aside ... all these quality MAC teams fall on the "nobody wants to play us sword" ... when the reality is, these coaches don't want to play anybody. The games are out there ... but you have to go on the road to get them. Part of that is the MAC's fault, demanding that every team play 16 or more home games ... but the time has come for Akron, OU, Toledo, Buffalo, Kent, WMU and even Eastern to suck it up and go on the road to get the job done.

All these teams should have 4-5 P5 games (Gonzaga, Memphis, Big East, top A-10 added) not just two or three and they should be locked down, not predicated on pulling one upset in a tournament in order to get a second quality game. ... and No D-2/NAIA games at all ... the schedule allows for EITHER, two closed pre-season scrimmages, or ... one closed and one open exhibition vs. a D-2/NAIA.

No need for these games to actually count in the w/l column even if you play them.

To play those D-2/NAIA games, plus a string of MEAC/SWAC games (Eastern Michigan) is why the MAC can be a Top 10 league and still a one-bid conference.

Time for ALL MAC coaches to take their diapers off and put their pants on. I think most fans would much rather see their teams play one or two more QUALITY road games vs the homecourt poo that shows up in November and December. ..

Might even make a bit more $$$ too ....