(07-28-2016 07:55 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  .

I, honest to God, would've voted for Sanders over Trump, even though I disagree with many of his positions, simply because he is the only person left running (at least late in the game) who I believed was honest and who I could trust. Any damage he could've done would've been severely limited by Congress.

This make strike some people who know me speechless, but I considered the same thing. Thank goodness the DNC rendered that choice moot.

I have not decided how I will handle the vote for president. The only I am sure of is that I will not be voting for Hillary. I may vote third party, I may write in somebody, I may leave that part of the ballot blank, and I may vote Trump. Decision in late October.

I regret voting for Sanders in March. His supporters were as rude and rowdy in Philly as most Trump supporters. I haven't decided who I'll vote for in November, but it's definitely not going to be Trump. The Democrats had a strong convention once it started, although Clinton's speech wasn't among the top 5. I expect the polls to be virtually tied again within a week or two.

For those who live in Houston, Jill Stein's Green Party Convention is actually here in town (at UH) next week. It might be worth checking out.

(07-29-2016 12:23 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 07:55 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  .

I, honest to God, would've voted for Sanders over Trump, even though I disagree with many of his positions, simply because he is the only person left running (at least late in the game) who I believed was honest and who I could trust. Any damage he could've done would've been severely limited by Congress.

This make strike some people who know me speechless, but I considered the same thing. Thank goodness the DNC rendered that choice moot.

I have not decided how I will handle the vote for president. The only I am sure of is that I will not be voting for Hillary. I may vote third party, I may write in somebody, I may leave that part of the ballot blank, and I may vote Trump. Decision in late October.

If you mind sharing, why would you consider voting for Trump?

(07-29-2016 06:41 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I regret voting for Sanders in March. His supporters were as rude and rowdy in Philly as most Trump supporters. I haven't decided who I'll vote for in November, but it's definitely not going to be Trump. The Democrats had a strong convention once it started, although Clinton's speech wasn't among the top 5. I expect the polls to be virtually tied again within a week or two.

For those who live in Houston, Jill Stein's Green Party Convention is actually here in town (at UH) next week. It might be worth checking out.

Thanks for the tip

With regard to the behavior of some of Sander's supporters (as opposed to Sanders, who, after all, would be the one serving), had the playing field been level from the start and throughout the process, I suspect there would have been little for them to be upset about. The fact that Trump has any chance at all is a strong reflection on Secretary Clinton's candidacy.

(07-29-2016 06:41 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 12:23 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 07:55 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  .

I, honest to God, would've voted for Sanders over Trump, even though I disagree with many of his positions, simply because he is the only person left running (at least late in the game) who I believed was honest and who I could trust. Any damage he could've done would've been severely limited by Congress.

This make strike some people who know me speechless, but I considered the same thing. Thank goodness the DNC rendered that choice moot.

I have not decided how I will handle the vote for president. The only I am sure of is that I will not be voting for Hillary. I may vote third party, I may write in somebody, I may leave that part of the ballot blank, and I may vote Trump. Decision in late October.

If you mind sharing, why would you consider voting for Trump?

Can't speak for Buddy, but I believe that a lot of the people who end up voting for Trump will be doing so because they absolutely do not want to vote for Hillary and perceive any other option a waste of their vote. That probably seems horrifying to some (as I said, I'm resigned to throwing my vote away. The deck is stacked, which is why I understand why Sander's supporters would protest), but the fact remains that a sizeable percentage of those who will vote for Hillary in November will be doing so for EXACTLY the same reason: they absolutely do not want to vote for Trump.

I could surmise from your posts that you perceive that to be the most important reason to vote for HRC yourself. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

If Hillary wins, she should consider that she has been handed a great gift. Given Trump's prior support of HRC, the minority prone to conspiracy theories will probably begin muttering about how things have lined up. (To be clear, I am not one of them)

I see one and only one reason to vote for Trump. He's not Hillary.
I see two reasons to vote for Hillary. One, she's a woman and we've never had one of those as president. Two, she's not Trump.

I will vote for Gary Johnson. He's not Trump or Hillary.

(07-29-2016 08:46 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 06:41 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 12:23 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 07:55 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  .

I, honest to God, would've voted for Sanders over Trump, even though I disagree with many of his positions, simply because he is the only person left running (at least late in the game) who I believed was honest and who I could trust. Any damage he could've done would've been severely limited by Congress.

This make strike some people who know me speechless, but I considered the same thing. Thank goodness the DNC rendered that choice moot.

I have not decided how I will handle the vote for president. The only I am sure of is that I will not be voting for Hillary. I may vote third party, I may write in somebody, I may leave that part of the ballot blank, and I may vote Trump. Decision in late October.

If you mind sharing, why would you consider voting for Trump?

Can't speak for Buddy, but I believe that a lot of the people who end up voting for Trump will be doing so because they absolutely do not want to vote for Hillary and perceive any other option a waste of their vote. That probably seems horrifying to some (as I said, I'm resigned to throwing my vote away. The deck is stacked, which is why I understand why Sander's supporters would protest), but the fact remains that a sizeable percentage of those who will vote for Hillary in November will be doing so for EXACTLY the same reason: they absolutely do not want to vote for Trump.

I could surmise from your posts that you perceive that to be the most important reason to vote for HRC yourself. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

If Hillary wins, she should consider that she has been handed a great gift. Given Trump's prior support of HRC, the minority prone to conspiracy theories will probably begin muttering about how things have lined up. (To be clear, I am not one of them)

I've articulated why I prefer HRC over Trump, and how I feel that the shortcomings of HRC are not nearly as consequential as Trumps. I will also vote for HRC because, while I would have preferred a better candidate on a personal/character level, I still agree with a majority of her broad, policy decisions.

So it's a combination of not disagreeing with her policy positions and not wanting to throw my vote away because I believe Trump has a much greater potential to do something that could damage our country.

But why vote Trump over a third-party candidate, what about him makes you believe he is a better alternative to HRC (since a third-party candidate is, in essence, making that claim)?

(07-29-2016 09:01 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 08:46 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 06:41 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 12:23 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 07:55 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  .

I, honest to God, would've voted for Sanders over Trump, even though I disagree with many of his positions, simply because he is the only person left running (at least late in the game) who I believed was honest and who I could trust. Any damage he could've done would've been severely limited by Congress.

This make strike some people who know me speechless, but I considered the same thing. Thank goodness the DNC rendered that choice moot.

I have not decided how I will handle the vote for president. The only I am sure of is that I will not be voting for Hillary. I may vote third party, I may write in somebody, I may leave that part of the ballot blank, and I may vote Trump. Decision in late October.

If you mind sharing, why would you consider voting for Trump?

Can't speak for Buddy, but I believe that a lot of the people who end up voting for Trump will be doing so because they absolutely do not want to vote for Hillary and perceive any other option a waste of their vote. That probably seems horrifying to some (as I said, I'm resigned to throwing my vote away. The deck is stacked, which is why I understand why Sander's supporters would protest), but the fact remains that a sizeable percentage of those who will vote for Hillary in November will be doing so for EXACTLY the same reason: they absolutely do not want to vote for Trump.

I could surmise from your posts that you perceive that to be the most important reason to vote for HRC yourself. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

If Hillary wins, she should consider that she has been handed a great gift. Given Trump's prior support of HRC, the minority prone to conspiracy theories will probably begin muttering about how things have lined up. (To be clear, I am not one of them)

I've articulated why I prefer HRC over Trump, and how I feel that the shortcomings of HRC are not nearly as consequential as Trumps. I will also vote for HRC because, while I would have preferred a better candidate on a personal/character level, I still agree with a majority of her broad, policy decisions.

So it's a combination of not disagreeing with her policy positions and not wanting to throw my vote away because I believe Trump has a much greater potential to do something that could damage our country.

But why vote Trump over a third-party candidate, what about him makes you believe he is a better alternative to HRC (since a third-party candidate is, in essence, making that claim)?

I cannot vote for HRC under any circumstances, since I cannot vote for a person who stands on a tarmac while they unload bodies and knowingly whispers lies into the ears of grieving parents. Better to waste my vote than to vote for such a person. JMHO.

Why would I consider Trump? I don't like him. I think a
wall is silly. When we had 17 Republican candidates and 4 Democrats, Trump was about 14-16th and Hillary 4th, so the nominations certainly did not turn out as I would have wished.

Hillary is pretty much a known factor, and what she is, is not, IMO, good for the country. Trump is a gamble, could be better, could be worse, so a double or nothing choice. I am waiting to hear more and see more who he surrounds himself with before taking that gamble.

I do think his volatility might make him a better person to sit across the table from foreign leaders. Nobody wants to negotiate with the Hulk. Everybody would prefer the person they can manipulate. Hillary had four years to display her negotiating skills, and zip.

Like Rick, I thought Sanders was honest, if misguided, and that the Congress in a bipartisan way would keep him in check. Hillary or Trump either one just brings more partisanship.

I do like a lot of things about the Libertarians. The main thing I have against them is that they are largely a symbolic vote, a none-of-the-above choice. If I am just casting a symbolic protest, though, I can write in somebody (I have done that before). I might vote
Trump as a lesser evil. Yeah, I know, the lesser evil is still evil. It is still lesser, too.

Can't stay home, I do want to vote in the down ticket races.

JMHOs.

So the choice of Trump ahead of HRC would be do a perceived higher level of, I guess, integrity on Trump's side? Since that seems to be the biggest gripe with HRC, what about Trump's past makes him seem more trustworthy? I've got to say, they both seem like they are primarily looking out for number 1 - one just chose to do that in politics and the other in business.

I ask so many questions about supporting Trump because I truly don't understand the rationale behind voting for him when he seems to be so out of touch with the political process, how the world works, how decent human beings should treat others that they don't like and agree with, and how the leader of our country should carry themselves (hint - it isn't saying you wanted to hit the mean people at the DNC talking badly about you).

I 100% agree that, regardless of feelings towards Trump, voting is important and everyone should do it. Heck, I even think people who will vote for Trump should go and vote - our political participation is astoundingly low in this country.

(07-29-2016 09:47 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So the choice of Trump ahead of HRC would be do a perceived higher level of, I guess, integrity on Trump's side? Since that seems to be the biggest gripe with HRC, what about Trump's past makes him seem more trustworthy? I've got to say, they both seem like they are primarily looking out for number 1 - one just chose to do that in politics and the other in business.

I think anybody who rises to or aspires to this level of politics is looking out for number one.

Rather than compile a long list going back to the 80's, I would just ask you the same question: What about HRC's past makes her seem more trustworthy?

Quote:I ask so many questions about supporting Trump because I truly don't understand the rationale behind voting for him when he seems to be so out of touch with the political process, how the world works, how decent human beings should treat others that they don't like and agree with, and how the leader of our country should carry themselves (hint - it isn't saying you wanted to hit the mean people at the DNC talking badly about you).

My vote will be symbolic, no matter what I do. it will be a vote against Hillary.

Quote:I 100% agree that, regardless of feelings towards Trump, voting is important and everyone should do it. Heck, I even think people who will vote for Trump should go and vote - our political participation is astoundingly low in this country.

Agree.

I also considered voting Bernie, and still may.

I've told my son though... my problem with Bernie is that there is no 'there', there. Here he represents supposedly tens of millions of people, yet there is no 'democratic socialist' party of like-minded candidates that could actually result in a shake-up of the essentially twin party system.

The Libertarian party doesn't have many, and certainly not many in significant positions... but it does have something like 150 elected officials who have run as Libertarians, not as Republicans with a libertarian slant. My point being that if the libertarian party actually got a fair shake, I think many Republicans might defect to it. Where would Bernie and his followers go?

Trump is an egotist, but IMO, he has to accomplish something as President (other than merely being elected) to further his goals... either for himself or his children. Him being a failure as a President would ruin his name, which is THE most important thing to him. Trump would be the first 'non politician' in modern times to be elected, but that's a pretty bug caveat. A wealthy white man being elected President isn't monumental in and of itself

Hillary has already accomplished something by being nominated, and would accomplish even more if she won... and even in failure, it would likely be blamed as much on 'systemic misogyny' as anything else. It would still be historic and remembered forever.

I just think that Trump would have more need to be viewed as a success in the office. Sure, if he fails he will blame others... but that wouldn't ring very true... and when in 10 years his children wanted to do something using the Trump name (either in politics or business) it would be sullied. See Jeb.

(07-29-2016 10:21 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 09:47 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So the choice of Trump ahead of HRC would be do a perceived higher level of, I guess, integrity on Trump's side? Since that seems to be the biggest gripe with HRC, what about Trump's past makes him seem more trustworthy? I've got to say, they both seem like they are primarily looking out for number 1 - one just chose to do that in politics and the other in business.

I think anybody who rises to or aspires to this level of politics is looking out for number one.

Rather than compile a long list going back to the 80's, I would just ask you the same question: What about HRC's past makes her seem more trustworthy?

Quote:I ask so many questions about supporting Trump because I truly don't understand the rationale behind voting for him when he seems to be so out of touch with the political process, how the world works, how decent human beings should treat others that they don't like and agree with, and how the leader of our country should carry themselves (hint - it isn't saying you wanted to hit the mean people at the DNC talking badly about you).

My vote will be symbolic, no matter what I do. it will be a vote against Hillary.

Quote:I 100% agree that, regardless of feelings towards Trump, voting is important and everyone should do it. Heck, I even think people who will vote for Trump should go and vote - our political participation is astoundingly low in this country.

Agree.

I think HRC and Trump are probably equally untrustworthy, so if we set that bar as equal then we move onto other presidential qualities. I value the fact that HRC at least has the demeanor necessary to be the head of state and experience internationally to successfully not ruin our foreign relations MUCH more than the potential positive that, should Trump get on track down the road, that maybe he doesn't put his foot in his mouth over, and over, and over again. If anything, I don't want a President that openly advocates violence against people who say mean things about him.

"Donald Trump admitted Thursday he has thought about getting revenge on speakers at the Democratic National Convention who attacked his campaign.

'I was gonna hit a number of those speakers so hard their heads would spin — they'd never recover,' Trump told attendees at a town hall in Davenport, Iowa, Thursday afternoon."

(07-29-2016 09:01 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 08:46 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 06:41 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 12:23 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 07:55 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  .

I, honest to God, would've voted for Sanders over Trump, even though I disagree with many of his positions, simply because he is the only person left running (at least late in the game) who I believed was honest and who I could trust. Any damage he could've done would've been severely limited by Congress.

This make strike some people who know me speechless, but I considered the same thing. Thank goodness the DNC rendered that choice moot.

I have not decided how I will handle the vote for president. The only I am sure of is that I will not be voting for Hillary. I may vote third party, I may write in somebody, I may leave that part of the ballot blank, and I may vote Trump. Decision in late October.

If you mind sharing, why would you consider voting for Trump?

Can't speak for Buddy, but I believe that a lot of the people who end up voting for Trump will be doing so because they absolutely do not want to vote for Hillary and perceive any other option a waste of their vote. That probably seems horrifying to some (as I said, I'm resigned to throwing my vote away. The deck is stacked, which is why I understand why Sander's supporters would protest), but the fact remains that a sizeable percentage of those who will vote for Hillary in November will be doing so for EXACTLY the same reason: they absolutely do not want to vote for Trump.

I could surmise from your posts that you perceive that to be the most important reason to vote for HRC yourself. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

If Hillary wins, she should consider that she has been handed a great gift. Given Trump's prior support of HRC, the minority prone to conspiracy theories will probably begin muttering about how things have lined up. (To be clear, I am not one of them)

I've articulated why I prefer HRC over Trump, and how I feel that the shortcomings of HRC are not nearly as consequential as Trumps. I will also vote for HRC because, while I would have preferred a better candidate on a personal/character level, I still agree with a majority of her broad, policy decisions.

So it's a combination of not disagreeing with her policy positions and not wanting to throw my vote away because I believe Trump has a much greater potential to do something that could damage our country.

But why vote Trump over a third-party candidate, what about him makes you believe he is a better alternative to HRC (since a third-party candidate is, in essence, making that claim)?

I have never said I would vote for Trump over a third-party candidate. I've said the opposite.

(07-29-2016 11:11 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 09:01 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 08:46 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 06:41 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 12:23 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  This make strike some people who know me speechless, but I considered the same thing. Thank goodness the DNC rendered that choice moot.

I have not decided how I will handle the vote for president. The only I am sure of is that I will not be voting for Hillary. I may vote third party, I may write in somebody, I may leave that part of the ballot blank, and I may vote Trump. Decision in late October.

If you mind sharing, why would you consider voting for Trump?

Can't speak for Buddy, but I believe that a lot of the people who end up voting for Trump will be doing so because they absolutely do not want to vote for Hillary and perceive any other option a waste of their vote. That probably seems horrifying to some (as I said, I'm resigned to throwing my vote away. The deck is stacked, which is why I understand why Sander's supporters would protest), but the fact remains that a sizeable percentage of those who will vote for Hillary in November will be doing so for EXACTLY the same reason: they absolutely do not want to vote for Trump.

I could surmise from your posts that you perceive that to be the most important reason to vote for HRC yourself. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

If Hillary wins, she should consider that she has been handed a great gift. Given Trump's prior support of HRC, the minority prone to conspiracy theories will probably begin muttering about how things have lined up. (To be clear, I am not one of them)

I've articulated why I prefer HRC over Trump, and how I feel that the shortcomings of HRC are not nearly as consequential as Trumps. I will also vote for HRC because, while I would have preferred a better candidate on a personal/character level, I still agree with a majority of her broad, policy decisions.

So it's a combination of not disagreeing with her policy positions and not wanting to throw my vote away because I believe Trump has a much greater potential to do something that could damage our country.

But why vote Trump over a third-party candidate, what about him makes you believe he is a better alternative to HRC (since a third-party candidate is, in essence, making that claim)?

I have never said I would vote for Trump over a third-party candidate. I've said the opposite.

Sorry - I was being too loose with my language. I was really more trying to get at why Trump appeared to be a better candidate. But perhaps I was reading too much into it to assume that you had that stance. My apologies if so.

(07-29-2016 11:02 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 10:21 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 09:47 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So the choice of Trump ahead of HRC would be do a perceived higher level of, I guess, integrity on Trump's side? Since that seems to be the biggest gripe with HRC, what about Trump's past makes him seem more trustworthy? I've got to say, they both seem like they are primarily looking out for number 1 - one just chose to do that in politics and the other in business.

I think anybody who rises to or aspires to this level of politics is looking out for number one.

Rather than compile a long list going back to the 80's, I would just ask you the same question: What about HRC's past makes her seem more trustworthy?

Quote:I ask so many questions about supporting Trump because I truly don't understand the rationale behind voting for him when he seems to be so out of touch with the political process, how the world works, how decent human beings should treat others that they don't like and agree with, and how the leader of our country should carry themselves (hint - it isn't saying you wanted to hit the mean people at the DNC talking badly about you).

My vote will be symbolic, no matter what I do. it will be a vote against Hillary.

Quote:I 100% agree that, regardless of feelings towards Trump, voting is important and everyone should do it. Heck, I even think people who will vote for Trump should go and vote - our political participation is astoundingly low in this country.

Agree.

I think HRC and Trump are probably equally untrustworthy, so if we set that bar as equal then we move onto other presidential qualities. I value the fact that HRC at least has the demeanor necessary to be the head of state and experience internationally to successfully not ruin our foreign relations MUCH more than the potential positive that, should Trump get on track down the road, that maybe he doesn't put his foot in his mouth over, and over, and over again. If anything, I don't want a President that openly advocates violence against people who say mean things about him.

"Donald Trump admitted Thursday he has thought about getting revenge on speakers at the Democratic National Convention who attacked his campaign.

'I was gonna hit a number of those speakers so hard their heads would spin — they'd never recover,' Trump told attendees at a town hall in Davenport, Iowa, Thursday afternoon."

You don't like Trump for things he said, I don't like Hillary for things she said...and did.

I was personally offended by Trump's statements about rapists. I am part Hispanic and worked on the border for decades. But I looked more closely. he was talking about Mexicans or Mexican Americans - he was talking about illegals. I used to have illegals wade the river and come up through my parking lot. I used to leave a hose out, until one day one of my secretaries came out and there were two naked men rinsing each other off. She was scared, and not because they were Mexican.

Immigration needs to be controlled as best we can. A wall is a stupid way to do it. I have a better plan, but it would require a lot of space. If you want to hear it, PM me.

I was offended by his remarks about Fiorena (that face) and Cruz's wife.

I have been offended by HRC many times, as she insults me and/or my intelligence.

Is your vote more FOR HRC, or more AGAINST Trump? Mine is totally an AGAINST vote. It is unfortunate that pointing out HRC flaws is seen as a defense of TRUMP.

(07-29-2016 12:31 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 11:02 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 10:21 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 09:47 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So the choice of Trump ahead of HRC would be do a perceived higher level of, I guess, integrity on Trump's side? Since that seems to be the biggest gripe with HRC, what about Trump's past makes him seem more trustworthy? I've got to say, they both seem like they are primarily looking out for number 1 - one just chose to do that in politics and the other in business.

I think anybody who rises to or aspires to this level of politics is looking out for number one.

Rather than compile a long list going back to the 80's, I would just ask you the same question: What about HRC's past makes her seem more trustworthy?

Quote:I ask so many questions about supporting Trump because I truly don't understand the rationale behind voting for him when he seems to be so out of touch with the political process, how the world works, how decent human beings should treat others that they don't like and agree with, and how the leader of our country should carry themselves (hint - it isn't saying you wanted to hit the mean people at the DNC talking badly about you).

My vote will be symbolic, no matter what I do. it will be a vote against Hillary.

Quote:I 100% agree that, regardless of feelings towards Trump, voting is important and everyone should do it. Heck, I even think people who will vote for Trump should go and vote - our political participation is astoundingly low in this country.

Agree.

I think HRC and Trump are probably equally untrustworthy, so if we set that bar as equal then we move onto other presidential qualities. I value the fact that HRC at least has the demeanor necessary to be the head of state and experience internationally to successfully not ruin our foreign relations MUCH more than the potential positive that, should Trump get on track down the road, that maybe he doesn't put his foot in his mouth over, and over, and over again. If anything, I don't want a President that openly advocates violence against people who say mean things about him.

"Donald Trump admitted Thursday he has thought about getting revenge on speakers at the Democratic National Convention who attacked his campaign.

'I was gonna hit a number of those speakers so hard their heads would spin — they'd never recover,' Trump told attendees at a town hall in Davenport, Iowa, Thursday afternoon."

You don't like Trump for things he said, I don't like Hillary for things she said...and did.

I was personally offended by Trump's statements about rapists. I am part Hispanic and worked on the border for decades. But I looked more closely. he was talking about Mexicans or Mexican Americans - he was talking about illegals. I used to have illegals wade the river and come up through my parking lot. I used to leave a hose out, until one day one of my secretaries came out and there were two naked men rinsing each other off. She was scared, and not because they were Mexican.

Immigration needs to be controlled as best we can. A wall is a stupid way to do it. I have a better plan, but it would require a lot of space. If you want to hear it, PM me.

I was offended by his remarks about Fiorena (that face) and Cruz's wife.

I have been offended by HRC many times, as she insults me and/or my intelligence.

Is your vote more FOR HRC, or more AGAINST Trump? Mine is totally an AGAINST vote. It is unfortunate that pointing out HRC flaws is seen as a defense of TRUMP.

I didn't take pointing out flaws in HRC to be a defense of Trump. I more viewed the lack of discussing Trumps flaws as giving him a pass on them or at least being unfazed by them.

By looking at who my choices are, and who I can realistically put into the White House, my vote is primarily AGAINST Trump, but there is enough common ground with the policies Hillary advocates that there is still a decent amount of FOR HRC. I'd have preferred a different candidate who did not have the baggage of HRC to be have been forth by the DNC, and vice versa from the RNC. Had the RNC gone with a pragmatic and moderate Republican like Kasich, I would likely be voting for him.

So in short, definitely not a 100% AGAINST vote at this point, but it drives a lot of my thinking.

(07-29-2016 01:12 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 12:31 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 11:02 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 10:21 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-29-2016 09:47 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So the choice of Trump ahead of HRC would be do a perceived higher level of, I guess, integrity on Trump's side? Since that seems to be the biggest gripe with HRC, what about Trump's past makes him seem more trustworthy? I've got to say, they both seem like they are primarily looking out for number 1 - one just chose to do that in politics and the other in business.

I think anybody who rises to or aspires to this level of politics is looking out for number one.

Rather than compile a long list going back to the 80's, I would just ask you the same question: What about HRC's past makes her seem more trustworthy?

Quote:I ask so many questions about supporting Trump because I truly don't understand the rationale behind voting for him when he seems to be so out of touch with the political process, how the world works, how decent human beings should treat others that they don't like and agree with, and how the leader of our country should carry themselves (hint - it isn't saying you wanted to hit the mean people at the DNC talking badly about you).

My vote will be symbolic, no matter what I do. it will be a vote against Hillary.

Quote:I 100% agree that, regardless of feelings towards Trump, voting is important and everyone should do it. Heck, I even think people who will vote for Trump should go and vote - our political participation is astoundingly low in this country.

Agree.

I think HRC and Trump are probably equally untrustworthy, so if we set that bar as equal then we move onto other presidential qualities. I value the fact that HRC at least has the demeanor necessary to be the head of state and experience internationally to successfully not ruin our foreign relations MUCH more than the potential positive that, should Trump get on track down the road, that maybe he doesn't put his foot in his mouth over, and over, and over again. If anything, I don't want a President that openly advocates violence against people who say mean things about him.

"Donald Trump admitted Thursday he has thought about getting revenge on speakers at the Democratic National Convention who attacked his campaign.

'I was gonna hit a number of those speakers so hard their heads would spin — they'd never recover,' Trump told attendees at a town hall in Davenport, Iowa, Thursday afternoon."

You don't like Trump for things he said, I don't like Hillary for things she said...and did.

I was personally offended by Trump's statements about rapists. I am part Hispanic and worked on the border for decades. But I looked more closely. he was talking about Mexicans or Mexican Americans - he was talking about illegals. I used to have illegals wade the river and come up through my parking lot. I used to leave a hose out, until one day one of my secretaries came out and there were two naked men rinsing each other off. She was scared, and not because they were Mexican.

Immigration needs to be controlled as best we can. A wall is a stupid way to do it. I have a better plan, but it would require a lot of space. If you want to hear it, PM me.

I was offended by his remarks about Fiorena (that face) and Cruz's wife.

I have been offended by HRC many times, as she insults me and/or my intelligence.

Is your vote more FOR HRC, or more AGAINST Trump? Mine is totally an AGAINST vote. It is unfortunate that pointing out HRC flaws is seen as a defense of TRUMP.

I didn't take pointing out flaws in HRC to be a defense of Trump. I more viewed the lack of discussing Trumps flaws as giving him a pass on them or at least being unfazed by them.

By looking at who my choices are, and who I can realistically put into the White House, my vote is primarily AGAINST Trump, but there is enough common ground with the policies Hillary advocates that there is still a decent amount of FOR HRC. I'd have preferred a different candidate who did not have the baggage of HRC to be have been forth by the DNC, and vice versa from the RNC. Had the RNC gone with a pragmatic and moderate Republican like Kasich, I would likely be voting for him.

So in short, definitely not a 100% AGAINST vote at this point, but it drives a lot of my thinking.

completely with you on Kasich. he was my first choice, and my last. I liked Webb from the
Dems, but the Dems didn't like him.

I just wish somebody had put up a candidate with moral character, verifiable accomplishments, and a vision beyond themselves.

If the democrats had any other nominee, he/she would be 10 points ahead of Trump.
If the republicans had any other nominee, he/she would be 10 points ahead of Hillary.

I think Trump has already ruined his name by spouting off like a fool.
The Trump brand is probably already diminished by revelations that the supposed quality is not there-U, steaks, booze etc. Sad about it might hurt the children since they seem to have more sense.

(07-29-2016 11:00 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I also considered voting Bernie, and still may.

I've told my son though... my problem with Bernie is that there is no 'there', there. Here he represents supposedly tens of millions of people, yet there is no 'democratic socialist' party of like-minded candidates that could actually result in a shake-up of the essentially twin party system.

The Libertarian party doesn't have many, and certainly not many in significant positions... but it does have something like 150 elected officials who have run as Libertarians, not as Republicans with a libertarian slant. My point being that if the libertarian party actually got a fair shake, I think many Republicans might defect to it. Where would Bernie and his followers go?

Trump is an egotist, but IMO, he has to accomplish something as President (other than merely being elected) to further his goals... either for himself or his children. Him being a failure as a President would ruin his name, which is THE most important thing to him. Trump would be the first 'non politician' in modern times to be elected, but that's a pretty bug caveat. A wealthy white man being elected President isn't monumental in and of itself

Hillary has already accomplished something by being nominated, and would accomplish even more if she won... and even in failure, it would likely be blamed as much on 'systemic misogyny' as anything else. It would still be historic and remembered forever.

I just think that Trump would have more need to be viewed as a success in the office. Sure, if he fails he will blame others... but that wouldn't ring very true... and when in 10 years his children wanted to do something using the Trump name (either in politics or business) it would be sullied. See Jeb.