I posted this in another Briles thread, but this event (among plenty of other infractions by other schools) are the result of a system that incentivizes universities to place athletes above the law and athletics above the interest of education. Briles and Baylor are just another symptom of a dysfunctional framework. Until we realize that and make changes to shift primary minor league responsibility to pro leagues while restoring academic/conduct integrity to college sports, these events will just keep on happening.

(05-29-2016 11:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State is one that can win, and don't have these types of players on their teams. Yeah, they booted some players off the team after they got arrested, and suspended their QB who went pee outside his hotel room on a balcony. Boise State does not want to look like Baylor.
I never heard any North Dakota State players doing these things either.

Montana booted QB Jordan Johnson because he was charged of raping another female student, but he was acquitted of the charges. But, Montana does not want him back either because of his character, and don't want the Title IX issues. That is why Montana is not on the list because they actively act right away on rape accusations.

Stoops at Oklahoma want to take in trouble kids as well.

It seems the P5 schools mainly care for win at all cost attitude, and take in players who are trouble from the start.

Montana and Missoula had major problems. There was a thread on it at the time. Here is one article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/01/us/sex....html?_r=0

Every school has rape problems. I'm not talking about football players. I'm talking about 18-22 year old males.

Every. School.

(05-30-2016 09:59 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  I posted this in another Briles thread, but this event (among plenty of other infractions by other schools) are the result of a system that incentivizes universities to place athletes above the law and athletics above the interest of education. Briles and Baylor are just another symptom of a dysfunctional framework. Until we realize that and make changes to shift primary minor league responsibility to pro leagues while restoring academic/conduct integrity to college sports, these events will just keep on happening.

Not just college. HS have plenty that are shuffled through because they can play sports. My tiny HS of 200 had several dummies with "learning disabilities" who also happened to be the best athletes.

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(05-30-2016 07:23 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(05-30-2016 12:36 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Boise is an exception and besides, they can let anyone in that has a pulse,

Proof?

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http://www.studentsreview.com/gettingin....=BSU&ST=ID

Quote:I just applied and sent them my high school transcript. It's not hard at all. They will let anyone in. This should tell you something.

Quote:Applying is very easy, I hardly tried and got in. The only thing is you should do better research about what you're getting youself into. Boise State sounds like a great school from the outside, but just like every other university there's still many problems.

Quote:They will accept just about anyone who can identify a russet potato.
If all you want is a reasonably priced in-state education, Boise State might be okay for you. And that's pretty much all it takes to be accepted.

Quote:It's easy to get in right now but they are in the process of making it more competitive.

That page shows a 77.7 acceptance rate.

(05-30-2016 09:57 AM)bullet Wrote:  Not all schools' fans want thugs playing for them. At some schools, coaches get a lot of heat for constantly having players in trouble.

But not enough to make the practice uncommon. Otherwise, Rice and Tulane could compete.

(05-30-2016 10:09 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Every school has rape problems. I'm not talking about football players. I'm talking about 18-22 year old males.

Every. School.

Yes, but schools with big time football have bigger problems. An FSU Title IX administrator said something like 40% of their cases involved football players.

I saw this on another message board. If half of what it says is true, I can't see Art Briles getting a job as dog catcher. Karma.

Quote:

"There are endless things to say about the ongoing developments at Baylor, and with many facts still missing, it's hard to say anything utterly definitive, but I felt like it was worth sharing a quote from a former high school football coach that claims to have known Art Briles on a personal level for decades:

'This day has been decades in the making. All the shady, vile, amoral attitude and behavior of Art Briles' "win at any cost" philosophy has finally caught up to him. He's been racking up a debt against Karma for years and now the bill has finally come due. You reap what you sow, Art. You reap what you sow.

This day is for the high school kids you tacitly encouraged to inject poison into their bodies. This day is for the high school kids whom you openly encouraged to play dirty in order to intimidate the opposition. This day is for the high school kids who suffered severe dehydration and needed hospitalization because you prevented air conditioning in the visitor's locker room in order to gain a competitive advantage.

This day is for the high school coaches who had to put up with game film missing entire offensive series of your teams so you'd have a competitive advantage. This day is for the high school coaches who you refused to shake hands with after they upset you and ended your winning streak.

This day is for the college coaches who had to put up with your false allegations of recruiting violations when you didn't get the kid you wanted.

This day is for the college kids who you blocked their transfer when they wanted to be closer to their ailing parents and siblings. This day is for the college kids whom you enabled to continue to do bad things at the expense of learning accountability and integrity so you could continue to win games.

But mostly, this day is for the young women whose lives were destroyed by your lack of morality, humanity, and decency. This day is the end of your career on the sidelines. And if you stop to listen, you can hear above the anguished cries of self-righteous indignation from your cult of Baylor fans in Waco the sweet, melodious chorus of justice from heaven's angels. May their anthems ring in your ears for eternity.'

So with that, to all the Baylor people that continue to blindly defend Art Briles, I say shame on you. And to all the Baylor fans that are patting themselves on the back and self-congratulating Baylor for "doing the right thing," shame on you too.

The right thing to do was to fire Briles last August when this dumpster fire of pure evil finally came to light. Instead, Baylor and its fans chose to defend Briles at the most disgusting levels. They screamed that this was all a conspiracy and that people were just jealous of their success. Well guess what Baylor? The only conspiracy were the sickos at your "Christian" school going to criminal lengths to cover up rape.

As it appears, the Baylor Board of Regents only fired Briles because Ken Starr threatened, and still does, to go public with what the external investigation found. Starr refused to be a scapegoat, leaked that he told the regents to release the full external report, and left the regents no choice but to fire Art Briles.

Just a few days ago, after getting the Pepper Hamilton external report, the regents were planning on canning Starr and doing everything they could to keep Briles. So now Baylor wants people to celebrate them for making the hard decision and "doing the right thing" after actively harboring a Rape Enabler for years?

Give me a break Baylor. You didn't chose to "do the right thing." You were pinned into a corner and forced to."

Unless you're talking about "bigger" in a metaphorical sense, I don't believe it bullet. Not unless I see the official statistics.

(05-30-2016 11:14 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-30-2016 10:09 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Every school has rape problems. I'm not talking about football players. I'm talking about 18-22 year old males.

Every. School.

Yes, but schools with big time football have bigger problems. An FSU Title IX administrator said something like 40% of their cases involved football players.

Ghetto

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(05-29-2016 11:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State is one that can win, and don't have these types of players on their teams. Yeah, they booted some players off the team after they got arrested, and suspended their QB who went pee outside his hotel room on a balcony. Boise State does not want to look like Baylor.
I never heard any North Dakota State players doing these things either.

Montana booted QB Jordan Johnson because he was charged of raping another female student, but he was acquitted of the charges. But, Montana does not want him back either because of his character, and don't want the Title IX issues. That is why Montana is not on the list because they actively act right away on rape accusations.

Stoops at Oklahoma want to take in trouble kids as well.

It seems the P5 schools mainly care for win at all cost attitude, and take in players who are trouble from the start.

NDSU has had two major scandals in the past few years. One of their walk ons was working as a security guard at Best Buy checking receipts at the door. Many NDSU players took advantage of his generosity by filling their carts with merchandise and being waived through. The Fargo police ended up raiding the bizon locker room and took away a truck load of stolen merchandise. It was mainly the walk ons that got in trouble.

A few years later, a number of NDSU players took summer jobs that paid them to get signatures for election referendums. The more signatures, the more pay. But instead of actually getting signatures from real people as was the law, those players just wrote names from phone books and forged signatures. In most states, those players would have faced felonies, but in ND they were only misdemeanors. The law was charged to felony because of the outrage and many of the pages of signatures were thrown out so the referendum never got on the ballot. None of the NDSU players were even suspended, as their AD at the time said they suffered enough from the public outcry.

Montana had to take back their QB. The situation there was more like the Duke lacrosse rape case, due to bad journalists promoting feminist causes that all football players are bad. Sometimes women later bellow rape when they wanted a football player long term. Sometimes, when a woman doesn't get the relationship she desired, it's off to the police to file charges.

(05-30-2016 09:57 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-30-2016 12:36 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 05:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State is keeping their program clean, and win they do. Once a kid gets into trouble? They boot that kid out of school and off the team. If Winston was at Boise State? He would have been booted right away. The latest Boise State player that was booted was arrested and going to trial for biting half of his ex-teammates ear off. Assault charges have been filed against that kid. Look at Boise State is at? All those wins, and a better win/loss record since 2000, and it is better than Baylor ever put together.

Now as for the Big 12? The firing of Art Briles is a wake up call to Bob Stoops, Butch Jones, Mike Gundy, Les Miles and so forth to clean up their act, and get rid of the trouble makers. It is not exclusive to Baylor and the Big 12. Nick Saban at Alabama is busy with their scandal as well with some of their players been arrested recently. NCAA at all levels need to clean up and get rid of the bad players. Look at what we are seeing with NFL players getting into trouble lately? All the problems started while those guys were in high school, and the coaches and recruits turned a blind eye by sweeping the kids past problems under the rug, and bring them to colleges were they continue their rang of terror.

Boise is an exception and besides, they can let anyone in that has a pulse, whereas Baylor at least has some academic standards.

Also, we don't know what people are gonna do until they do it. A choir boy today may turn into Ryan Leaf--err, I mean Johnny Manziel tomorrow. In other words, we'll never rid the game of these types of players.

(05-29-2016 11:44 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  I think there is a big difference between saying I can understand taking some risks or looking the their way to win, and (purposely) allowing that environment to foster.

What's the difference? He knows he can't compete with the Texases and OU's of the world by merely running a completely clean and wholesome operation. He knew the quickest route to winning was taking on character risks short of SMU-SWC style paying of players.

My only issue is that you get rid of them as quickly as possible once the trouble starts, like the Patriots did when they once had Randy Moss. As soon as he reverted back to a-hole Randy, Belichek cut him loose.

(05-29-2016 08:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  These players are representing the university. The coaches should keep that in mind.

LOL, I'm sure they will at the same time they get insulted (and in rare cases, threatened with violence) by fans, parents, alums and even administrators for not winning enough. No one in Louisiana cares about LSU losing to Alabama from February to August but you see in December they were adament about firing a coach that is less than 5 years removed from nearly winning a national title and is pretty much automatic for a top 15 finish.

During football season, no one cares about thugs playing for your favorite team, all they care about is bragging rights and even if some of us care, there's still a sizable enough minority or majority that doesn't.

Not all schools' fans want thugs playing for them. At some schools, coaches get a lot of heat for constantly having players in trouble.

FSU fans at the end got tired of Winston's antics and want him gone. Winston knew it, and went pro. Many talking heads on tv said that Winston is not mature enough to be in the Pros.

One common factor involved in the rape cases is booze. Ban booze from the campus and all that, and girls would not be violated by guys taken advantage of passed out girls.

(05-30-2016 05:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  One common factor involved in the rape cases is booze. Ban booze from the campus and all that, and girls would not be violated by guys taken advantage of passed out girls.

Probably is banned at Baylor.

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(05-29-2016 11:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State is one that can win, and don't have these types of players on their teams. Yeah, they booted some players off the team after they got arrested, and suspended their QB who went pee outside his hotel room on a balcony. Boise State does not want to look like Baylor.
I never heard any North Dakota State players doing these things either.

Montana booted QB Jordan Johnson because he was charged of raping another female student, but he was acquitted of the charges. But, Montana does not want him back either because of his character, and don't want the Title IX issues. That is why Montana is not on the list because they actively act right away on rape accusations.

Stoops at Oklahoma want to take in trouble kids as well.

It seems the P5 schools mainly care for win at all cost attitude, and take in players who are trouble from the start.

Link

In summary, one of the Baylor players convicted of assault came from Boise State. The following quote is in reference to an email quoted in the article.

Quote:This correspondence indicates that Petersen was aware of Ukwuachu’s behavior in his final week at Boise State—as does the fact that at the end of that week, Petersen dismissed Ukwuachu from the team.

Boise State managed to get the player out of town before the crap hit the fan. They also didn't take any steps to get the player any help. Basically they just turned him loose on another campus.

I'm not saying Baylor or the P5 are innocent. I am saying your attempt to paint this as an exclusive P5 issue while the rest of the NCAA schools are saints is insulting and just plain wrong.

Banning booze? That's just another way of saying it was the girls fault. Again, insulting and wrong.

(05-30-2016 07:08 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 11:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State is one that can win, and don't have these types of players on their teams. Yeah, they booted some players off the team after they got arrested, and suspended their QB who went pee outside his hotel room on a balcony. Boise State does not want to look like Baylor.
I never heard any North Dakota State players doing these things either.

Montana booted QB Jordan Johnson because he was charged of raping another female student, but he was acquitted of the charges. But, Montana does not want him back either because of his character, and don't want the Title IX issues. That is why Montana is not on the list because they actively act right away on rape accusations.

Stoops at Oklahoma want to take in trouble kids as well.

It seems the P5 schools mainly care for win at all cost attitude, and take in players who are trouble from the start.

Link

In summary, one of the Baylor players convicted of assault came from Boise State. The following quote is in reference to an email quoted in the article.

Quote:This correspondence indicates that Petersen was aware of Ukwuachu’s behavior in his final week at Boise State—as does the fact that at the end of that week, Petersen dismissed Ukwuachu from the team.

Boise State managed to get the player out of town before the crap hit the fan. They also didn't take any steps to get the player any help. Basically they just turned him loose on another campus.

I'm not saying Baylor or the P5 are innocent. I am saying your attempt to paint this as an exclusive P5 issue while the rest of the NCAA schools are saints is insulting and just plain wrong.

Banning booze? That's just another way of saying it was the girls fault. Again, insulting and wrong.

Actually, Peterson warned Briles, but Briles ignored the warnings and gone ahead and took the player. Briles then went on to blame Peterson, but will not take the blame for his own mistake. He tried to point the finger at somebody else.

The booze is a problem for sure. When the girl either drinks the booze or have her drink spike and passes out? The guys take advantage of the girls at that time while the girls are passed out. That is not an open invite to have sex with the girls. They had no function to say yes or no. Even the guys when drunk have no control either.

I think Briles was doing the same thing that other P5 schools were doing. He just got caught. He probably got caught because he wasn't one of the favored few.

What did he get away with at Houston?

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(05-30-2016 11:44 AM)CintiFan Wrote:  I saw this on another message board. If half of what it says is true, I can't see Art Briles getting a job as dog catcher. Karma.

Quote:

"There are endless things to say about the ongoing developments at Baylor, and with many facts still missing, it's hard to say anything utterly definitive, but I felt like it was worth sharing a quote from a former high school football coach that claims to have known Art Briles on a personal level for decades:

'This day has been decades in the making. All the shady, vile, amoral attitude and behavior of Art Briles' "win at any cost" philosophy has finally caught up to him. He's been racking up a debt against Karma for years and now the bill has finally come due. You reap what you sow, Art. You reap what you sow.

This day is for the high school kids you tacitly encouraged to inject poison into their bodies. This day is for the high school kids whom you openly encouraged to play dirty in order to intimidate the opposition. This day is for the high school kids who suffered severe dehydration and needed hospitalization because you prevented air conditioning in the visitor's locker room in order to gain a competitive advantage.

This day is for the high school coaches who had to put up with game film missing entire offensive series of your teams so you'd have a competitive advantage. This day is for the high school coaches who you refused to shake hands with after they upset you and ended your winning streak.

This day is for the college coaches who had to put up with your false allegations of recruiting violations when you didn't get the kid you wanted.

This day is for the college kids who you blocked their transfer when they wanted to be closer to their ailing parents and siblings. This day is for the college kids whom you enabled to continue to do bad things at the expense of learning accountability and integrity so you could continue to win games.

But mostly, this day is for the young women whose lives were destroyed by your lack of morality, humanity, and decency. This day is the end of your career on the sidelines. And if you stop to listen, you can hear above the anguished cries of self-righteous indignation from your cult of Baylor fans in Waco the sweet, melodious chorus of justice from heaven's angels. May their anthems ring in your ears for eternity.'

So with that, to all the Baylor people that continue to blindly defend Art Briles, I say shame on you. And to all the Baylor fans that are patting themselves on the back and self-congratulating Baylor for "doing the right thing," shame on you too.

The right thing to do was to fire Briles last August when this dumpster fire of pure evil finally came to light. Instead, Baylor and its fans chose to defend Briles at the most disgusting levels. They screamed that this was all a conspiracy and that people were just jealous of their success. Well guess what Baylor? The only conspiracy were the sickos at your "Christian" school going to criminal lengths to cover up rape.

As it appears, the Baylor Board of Regents only fired Briles because Ken Starr threatened, and still does, to go public with what the external investigation found. Starr refused to be a scapegoat, leaked that he told the regents to release the full external report, and left the regents no choice but to fire Art Briles.

Just a few days ago, after getting the Pepper Hamilton external report, the regents were planning on canning Starr and doing everything they could to keep Briles. So now Baylor wants people to celebrate them for making the hard decision and "doing the right thing" after actively harboring a Rape Enabler for years?

Give me a break Baylor. You didn't chose to "do the right thing." You were pinned into a corner and forced to."

If this is true, then I'd say it paid off handsomely for Briles. He's made, what, $20 million as a head coach? I guarantee he didn't have the talent or patience necessary to make that type of bank the honest way.

(05-30-2016 08:27 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-30-2016 07:08 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 11:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State is one that can win, and don't have these types of players on their teams. Yeah, they booted some players off the team after they got arrested, and suspended their QB who went pee outside his hotel room on a balcony. Boise State does not want to look like Baylor.
I never heard any North Dakota State players doing these things either.

Montana booted QB Jordan Johnson because he was charged of raping another female student, but he was acquitted of the charges. But, Montana does not want him back either because of his character, and don't want the Title IX issues. That is why Montana is not on the list because they actively act right away on rape accusations.

Stoops at Oklahoma want to take in trouble kids as well.

It seems the P5 schools mainly care for win at all cost attitude, and take in players who are trouble from the start.

Link

In summary, one of the Baylor players convicted of assault came from Boise State. The following quote is in reference to an email quoted in the article.

Quote:This correspondence indicates that Petersen was aware of Ukwuachu’s behavior in his final week at Boise State—as does the fact that at the end of that week, Petersen dismissed Ukwuachu from the team.

Boise State managed to get the player out of town before the crap hit the fan. They also didn't take any steps to get the player any help. Basically they just turned him loose on another campus.

I'm not saying Baylor or the P5 are innocent. I am saying your attempt to paint this as an exclusive P5 issue while the rest of the NCAA schools are saints is insulting and just plain wrong.

Banning booze? That's just another way of saying it was the girls fault. Again, insulting and wrong.

Actually, Peterson warned Briles, but Briles ignored the warnings and gone ahead and took the player. Briles then went on to blame Peterson, but will not take the blame for his own mistake. He tried to point the finger at somebody else.

The booze is a problem for sure. When the girl either drinks the booze or have her drink spike and passes out? The guys take advantage of the girls at that time while the girls are passed out. That is not an open invite to have sex with the girls. They had no function to say yes or no. Even the guys when drunk have no control either.

Petersen never warned Briles that SU was a dangerous person. He informed him that he was homesick, depressed and had punched out a window. He called Briles up to ask him to take SU because he thought being close to home would help. The assault on Sam's girlfriend at Boise State was never known until his rape trial when his ex testified under oath that she never told anyone at Boise St about the assault. SU was suspended and never played a down for Baylor. Baylor and Briles look bad enough without you fabricating more BS to try and make them look even worse.